After each power, it needs to tell you what the power frackin' does!
Example: Under At-Will Powers on the second page.
Currently looks like this:
Cleave
Brash Strike
Would look much better like this:
Cleave - On Hit: Deal Str Mod dmg to adjacent enemy.
Brash Strike - On Hit: Gain Temp HP = Con modifier.
Or even better.
Cleave - On Hit: Deal 5 dmg to adj enemy.
Brash Strike - On Hit: Gain 3 temp HP.
Seriously, it seems so obvious to me to have this feature. It's rough enough teaching n00bs how to play, but every time they use an ability they have to open up the damnable book to figure it out or I flat out have to tell them how it works. Why not put it on the frackin' character sheet?! I see other character sheets that allow you to type it in so it prints that way. The one that's in the character builder which I PAID for should do no less (and should in fact, do more).
Bleh...
And don't tell me to use those power cards! I hate them. =P
O_o
On the printable character sheet that people print out and use to play, under the At-Will Powers section on the 2nd page. It just says the power names, it says nothing about what each power does.
90% of the time my players print out the first 2 pages of the character sheet (nobody likes the power cards). Because of this, much of the game time is spent opening the PHB to find the power and figure out the specifics of what it does. Eventually they write it in on their character sheet, but when they level up and print a new character sheet. Same problem. It doesn't list what the abilities do.
Rather than being forced to use those dreadful power cards (did I mention I hate them?), I would like for a simple one or two line description of the ability to appear on the 2nd page of the character sheet that will PRINT OUT with that character sheet.
"hate" is a strong word when using something that facilitates accurate and organized gameplay but hey...the more I read these forums the more my eyes are opened to how people are actually playing this simplified iteration of D&D.
If the OPr is willing to limit himself regarding the use of a tool that assists gameplay then why not make his own character sheets that include the data for powers on the character sheet itself rather than the awful aforementioned power cards.
And your players would rather thumb through the PHB for every attack as opposed to using the power cards? This is indeed odd...
EDIT: After reading your last sentence: "...the more my eyes are opened to how people are actually playing this simplified iteration of D&D.", I can no longer participate in this conversation. Insults are not exactly the best way of getting advice.
So...for the majority of us who DO like (and use) the power cards, you would have WotC take the CB back down and reformat it (taking God knows how long) so that it gives a brief description of powers under the power's names?
And your players would rather thumb through the PHB for every attack as opposed to using the power cards? This is indeed odd...
EDIT: After reading your last sentence: "...the more my eyes are opened to how people are actually playing this simplified iteration of D&D.", I can no longer participate in this conversation. Insults are not exactly the best way of getting advice.
Why would you punish me for what he said? Ignore him, help me.
No, they shouldn't take the CB down... Like any good software developer they will PATCH it to add this feature in. It's a simple enough feature and given that I'm paying for this service I think it should cater to a wider variety of needs.
And I'm sorry, but those power cards are just annoying. We're old school, we play with full sheets of paper, not cut-outs. =P
I don't see why everyone (so far) is opposed to something so simple that has no downside...
Oh...sorry about that.
"hate" is a strong word when using something that facilitates accurate and organized gameplay but hey...the more I read these forums the more my eyes are opened to how people are actually playing this simplified iteration of D&D.
If the OPr is willing to limit himself regarding the use of a tool that assists gameplay then why not make his own character sheets that include the data for powers on the character sheet itself rather than the awful aforementioned power cards.
I have character sheets that do that. But I'm PAYING for this one. It should cater to a wide variety of needs. A lot of players just want the simple 2 page layout and do not use the power cards. Adding a simple short description after each power name should be easy to do! They have checkboxes on the encounter and daily powers so clearly they intended to support just using the 2 page character sheet without the power cards. I just want them to FULLY support that in a smart way.
One line simple descriptions after the power name. How hard can that be?
Why would you punish me for what he said? Ignore him, help me.
If the cutouts are so unpleasant than why not make your own character sheets?
Or simply have a summary sheet of all your powers typed up and attached to your character sheet with descriptions of the powers?
Or...don't cut out the power cards and leave them as one whole sheet?
I don't see why everyone (so far) is opposed to something so simple that has no downside...
I've been at this game since 1E, so I think I fit into the "old school" standard as well, and I think power cards are a blessing with all the varied abilities/powers/conditions/etc. to keep up with in 4E. We simply don't cut them out. When they print, we leave them alone, slide them into sheet protectors, and when someone uses a power, they put an X over the power with a dry-erase marker. When it's over, wipe it off, and you're ready to go again. They've simplified things so much, and made organization much easier.
Also, sorry about the previous statement. I thought it was you that had stated that. All apologies. I'll try to pay closer attention next time.
One line simple descriptions after the power name. How hard can that be?
Some of the powers have HUGE amounts of text following their names, so a simple one-line description simply wouldn't work for all of them. There's like a 2-inch line on the CRS...there's just no way to fit something like Darkspiral Aura onto a line that small.
I have character sheets that do that. But I'm PAYING for this one. It should cater to a wide variety of needs. A lot of players just want the simple 2 page layout and do not use the power cards. Adding a simple short description after each power name should be easy to do! They have checkboxes on the encounter and daily powers so clearly they intended to support just using the 2 page character sheet without the power cards. I just want them to FULLY support that in a smart way.
One line simple descriptions after the power name. How hard can that be?
Because a number of at-wills are fairly text heavy. A few of the warden's at-wills come to mind and I'm sure there are other examples. A "simple line of text" would not suffice.
I think space would become an issue.
And I'm sorry, but those power cards are just annoying. We're old school, we play with full sheets of paper, not cut-outs. =P
So....don't cut the cards out. Leave them in full-sheet form after you print them.
My group is old-school too (been DMing since '83), but we have found the value that cards provide in keeping track of used encounter and daily powers. From one old-scholler to another I think you should give the cards a try if you haven't already.
Some of the powers have HUGE amounts of text following their names, so a simple one-line description simply wouldn't work for all of them. There's like a 2-inch line on the CRS...there's just no way to fit something like Darkspiral Aura onto a line that small.
I'm just talking about powers. Not Pacts. =P
Tracking warlock curses and pacts are a whole other problem which isn't solved by those cards either. =P
Because a number of at-wills are fairly text heavy. A few of the warden's at-wills come to mind and I'm sure there are other examples. A "simple line of text" would not suffice.
I think space would become an issue.
The character sheet could be modified to allow for more room. It could be an option they turn on or off (they already allow you to move the panes around).
As to the Warden's at wills, I'm not seeing anything too tough in there.
On Hit: X+X Dmg and Trg slow until end of your next turn. =P
I don't see why everyone (so far) is opposed to something so simple that has no downside...
Because it actually does have a downside.......
how much space do you think it would take to fill in that info, for every power and item you have (looking at you Lv. 30 Wizard played form lv 1 with oh so many magic items)?????
The power cards are a very elegant and efficient way of keeping track of your options, as you print them off, cut them cut them out, put them in sleeves with some form of backing (optional), and flip them over when they are used, or keep them in a hand like in bridge, and discard used powers.
The only other option would be to have a table second view of your powers, also on a third sheet, which actually would be nice if it was there, but not on the second page, there is not enough room with the other sections on it.
I'm just talking about powers. Not Pacts. =P
Tracking warlock curses and pacts are a whole other problem which isn't solved by those cards either. =P
And I'm not just talking about pacts. Some of those powers (especially dailies) have tons of text in them. To hit, damage, effect, secondary targets, damage on a miss, etc., etc., etc. (especially towards higher levels). It's just NOT efficient to try to squeeze all of that on 1 small line.
The power cards are useful because they contain *all* the information for each power, so you don't have to go digging through rule books every time you use it and someone has a question about the effects. Many powers have multiple effects, and some have different effects based on if you hit or miss. Many have specific triggers, or times when you can and cannot use them. It gets very complicated. I can't imagine trying to memorize even the powers of my 1st level characters. I don't cut them out either. If it's an encounter or daily power, I just tick the box in the upper right that says "used". When we rest, I erase the appropriate tick marks.
I guess I just don't understand why you have such issues with the cards. They're phenomenally useful.
Because it actually does have a downside.......
how much space do you think it would take to fill in that info, for every power and item you have (looking at you Lv. 30 Wizard played form lv 1 with oh so many magic items)?????
The power cards are a very elegant and efficient way of keeping track of your options, as you print them off, cut them cut them out, put them in sleeves with some form of backing (optional), and flip them over when they are used, or keep them in a hand like in bridge, and discard used powers.
The only other option would be to have a table second view of your powers, also on a third sheet, which actually would be nice if it was there, but not on the second page, there is not enough room with the other sections on it.
I know but they could create a custom panel in the sheet to handle this. If you've seen the wiesbieden character sheet you know what I'm talking about. WOTC should copy them and put that as an optional panel into the character sheet immediately!
Seriously. =P
I just don't see the problem here. If you want a one-line description on page 2, why can't you just write it in yourself?
The power cards are useful because they contain *all* the information for each power, so you don't have to go digging through rule books every time you use it and someone has a question about the effects. Many powers have multiple effects, and some have different effects based on if you hit or miss. Many have specific triggers, or times when you can and cannot use them. It gets very complicated. I can't imagine trying to memorize even the powers of my 1st level characters. I don't cut them out either. If it's an encounter or daily power, I just tick the box in the upper right that says "used". When we rest, I erase the appropriate tick marks.
I guess I just don't understand why you have such issues with the cards. They're phenomenally useful.
I have multiple issues with the cards.
1. They can't be moved around on the sheet like the rest of the character sheet, thus forcing you to have them in the order they want.
2. There's an action point card as the second card... waste of space.
3. You now have to read through three columns instead of a downward list like everything else on the character sheet. That is to say, if you are reading your skills, it's top to bottom with bold words indicating the name of the power, if you are reading your race features its a top to bottom list with bold words indicating the name of the racial feature. IF you want to read your at wills it's second row, left to right, small print words in the top left of each card.
4. In order for the cards to be truly useful you need to print them out and cut them out. This is annoying.
5. In order for the cards to be complete, you have to print out multiple sheets accounting for different weapon types. Seems like this could be much better handled in a simple row on a character sheet page.
Anyways, YES I know the cards are useful. All I am saying is that the character sheet should be JUST AS USEFUL (without the cards)!
I simply cannot understand all the resistance to this.
I am PAYING for this character builder, this is a feature I want and I think others would want too once they saw it.
I know but they could create a custom panel in the sheet to handle this.
They could, you can too if you have a pencil. I would much rather they devote their time to creating and adding new stuff rather than redesigning stuff that's already there.
They created power cards for this purpose and that's cool if you don't like them. To be honest, I don't like them either. I don't like the idea of 'cards' in my D&D at all. But I don't expect them to change or fix it just because I think they are cheesy, I just use the sheet of cards as a reference and do it the way I want on my own. If they were going to create multiple versions of every game feature to please every player they'd never get anything done.
Edit:
5. In order for the cards to be complete, you have to print out multiple sheets accounting for different weapon types.
There's an option on the sheet to include every weapon in your inventory on a single card for each power.
I have multiple issues with the cards.
2. There's an action point card as the second card... waste of space.
"Options --> Hide Optional Cards"
Boom, the first three cards are gone (character summary, action point, second wind). Could be more customizable, but hey.
4. In order for the cards to be truly useful you need to print them out and cut them out. This is annoying.
Honestly, this depends on how you define "truly useful". Others plainly don't see it this way.
5. In order for the cards to be complete, you have to print out multiple sheets accounting for different weapon types. Seems like this could be much better handled in a simple row on a character sheet page.
"Options --> Show All Weapons For Power Cards"
Boom, there they are right on the card.
I simply cannot understand all the resistance to this.
I am PAYING for this character builder, this is a feature I want and I think others would want too once they saw it.
My major objection is that such a change would take developer time and attention away from matters that I consider much more important, since I like the sheets and cards just fine as they are.
I have multiple issues with the cards.
1. They can't be moved around on the sheet like the rest of the character sheet, thus forcing you to have them in the order they want.
If by "the order they want", you mean in order from At-Wills to Encounters to Dailies, then yes. You would want it differently?
2. There's an action point card as the second card... waste of space.
Perhaps you haven't played with a large group or brand-new players unfamiliar witht he rules. That little card has been more than one player's saving grace when they would have totally forgotten about it.
3. IF you want to read your at wills it's second row, left to right, small print words in the top left of each card.
You're actually arguing against left-to-right text? This IS America...that's how we roll.
4. In order for the cards to be truly useful you need to print them out and cut them out. This is annoying.
Patently false. As many (myself included) have pointed out, they can be left uncut and still be just as useful. Now I think you're actively trying to start an unwanted argument.
5. In order for the cards to be complete, you have to print out multiple sheets accounting for different weapon types. Seems like this could be much better handled in a simple row on a character sheet page.
This is already a feature of the CB.
I simply cannot understand all the resistance to this.
Because it's not needed, and the down-time to the CB while they "fix" it would be a real hindrance for those of us who use it on a weekly basis (I, personally, DM for 4 different groups each week...that thing's priceless to me).
I am PAYING for this character builder, this is a feature I want and I think others would want too once they saw it.
Maybe. Maybe not. If you're that adamant about it, shoot an e-mail to Customer Service and tell them your idea. WotC seems to be listening the customers with 4E more than they previously did. Who knows? It might work, especially if you can get all your group's members to send an e-mail as well.
They could, you can too if you have a pencil. I would much rather they devote their time to creating and adding new stuff rather than redesigning stuff that's already there.
They created power cards for this purpose and that's cool if you don't like them. To be honest, I don't like them either. I don't like the idea of 'cards' in my D&D at all. But I don't expect them to change or fix it just because I think they are cheesy, I just use the sheet of cards as a reference and do it the way I want on my own. If they were going to create multiple versions of every game feature to please every player they'd never get anything done.
Edit:
There's an option on the sheet to include every weapon in your inventory on a single card for each power.
First of all, it's not a redesign. It's an additional feature, and should be a relatively simple one to add. Secondly, I honestly think it's necessary to add this feature to make the character sheet viable on its own. It's truthfully not a complete character sheet without this feature. It just isn't...
And I'll try to find that option for the cards, that would be helpful, thank you for pointing it out. =)
I have multiple issues with the cards.
1. They can't be moved around on the sheet like the rest of the character sheet, thus forcing you to have them in the order they want.
Well, you could cut them out and put them in whatever order you wanted...
2. There's an action point card as the second card... waste of space.
Says you. Some people might think being able to keep track of whether or not you used your current action point by flipping it over, discarding it or handing it to the DM is an easy way to keep track of such things.
3. You now have to read through three columns instead of a downward list like everything else on the character sheet. That is to say, if you are reading your skills, it's top to bottom with bold words indicating the name of the power, if you are reading your race features its a top to bottom list with bold words indicating the name of the racial feature. IF you want to read your at wills it's second row, left to right, small print words in the top left of each card.
In the very nicest way I can muster.
Your rationale for this is crazy.
4. In order for the cards to be truly useful you need to print them out and cut them out. This is annoying.
Maybe YOU need them to be cut out for them to be useful. I'm sure there is someone out there that feels that the power cards need to be carved into bricks of Havarti for them to be truly useful...but it doesn't make them right. There are people in my group that cut them out and those that don't (because they're staunch "old skoolers" who refuse to turn D&D into Magic the Gathering) but EVERYONE recognizes the inherent value of them.
5. In order for the cards to be complete, you have to print out multiple sheets accounting for different weapon types. Seems like this could be much better handled in a simple row on a character sheet page.
That IS a shortcoming but you CAN use pencils to write in the information for different weapons/implements. Radical, I know.
Anyways, YES I know the cards are useful. All I am saying is that the character sheet should be JUST AS USEFUL (without the cards)!
It sounds like you want the power cards but you don't want them to look like power cards, nor be referred to as power cards?
I am PAYING for this character builder, this is a feature I want and I think others would want too once they saw it.
We know you're paying for it. You've mentioned that a great deal. Gratz. You CAN send a message to WotC by NOT renewing your subscription for the character builder when it's up.
You doing so for your current reasons might be pretty uncommon however.
It's awesome how you would rather WotC take away resources on their dev team to improve "quality of life" issues with the Character Builder as opposed to getting the virtual tabletop up and running.
The character sheet is not complete without this feature. It just isn't.
And yes, I'm Unamerican because I want all my powers to be in order from top to bottom on a sheet instead of mixed up on little cards on one sheet of paper. That's how *I* roll. =P
That's how *I* roll. =P
It's a very lonely roll...
Since you won't listen to anyone on this, and you're hell-bent on changing everything, send WotC an e-mail voicing your concerns...because we:
1) don't care, as your issues don't affect us
2) can't do anything about it
3) wouldn't do anything about it if we could
4) are quite pleased with the CB as-is.
1. They can't be moved around on the sheet like the rest of the character sheet, thus forcing you to have them in the order they want.
It is a pretty logical sorting however.
2. There's an action point card as the second card... waste of space.
It is removable.
3. You now have to read through three columns instead of a downward list like everything else on the character sheet.
This is so trivial it is not funny.
4. In order for the cards to be truly useful you need to print them out and cut them out. This is annoying.
No, they do not have to be cut out, to be useful they have to reduce lookup time, which they do just by being printed up.
5. In order for the cards to be complete, you have to print out multiple sheets accounting for different weapon types. Seems like this could be much better handled in a simple row on a character sheet page.
reight click a card, there is a customize option, use it to select the weapons you want calculated.
It's a very lonely roll...
Since you won't listen to anyone on this, and you're hell-bent on changing everything, send WotC an e-mail voicing your concerns...because we:
1) don't care, as your issues don't affect us
2) can't do anything about it
3) wouldn't do anything about it if we could
4) are quite pleased with the CB as-is.
Changing everything? I just want consistency in the way information is displayed on the character sheet. The cards are completely at odds with the character sheet...
I don't understand why anyone would think you have to cut the power cards out though, that just puzzles me. Far easier to check them off as you use them, IMO.
Hey. I will include the request in the weekly reports I fire off to WotC DDI CM staff.
Thank you. =)
Thank you. =)
No problem. Note they are requests. There is nothing that requires WOtC to follow-up on them or do them.
No problem. Note they are requests. There is nothing that requires WOtC to follow-up on them or do them.
Yeah I know, but it seems so low risk and easy to implement that they just might do it. Plus, it would make the character sheet more competitive with the ones that players are making (particularly wiesbieden).
Yeah I know, but it seems so low risk and easy to implement that they just might do it. Plus, it would make the character sheet more competitive with the ones that players are making (particularly wiesbieden).
The Wiesbaden sheet has not been updated since October 12th, so there is no competition there at all.
The sheet is fine the way it is.
And I am also old school. I played OD&D back in the day. And I dont know anyone that I play with or have played with currently that do not like the power cards. Some cut them out, some keep them intact. But they all use them and like them.
The level of abbreviation and abstraction that will be useful will vary a lot.
The information you want is already provided in the cards you don't want to use, and it shouldn't be too much trouble to move the appropriate data to a power sheet withs summaries for each PC.
I prefer the powers full text to be included in the entry, but I do think that the option to make the powers a text based list (and to the option to support to hit and damage formulae from more than one weapon or implement) ought to be included in teh character builder.
Hey. I will include the request in the weekly reports I fire off to WotC DDI CM staff.
As long as you're taking requests.
It seems that many here (myself included) would only want to see the short power description in the list as an option that we can enable if it were to exist at all. Thanks.
.But to the OP, I think it would be useful to really think about why the cards bug you so much. Take some of the suggestions other have provided and try them out before just nixing them out of hand. There have been several useful suggestions:
1: Put the card sheet in a plastic binder sheet. Use an erasable marker to cross out the powers you've used, erase the marks once the encounter/day is over. Easy management.
2: If you don't like the order of the cards, cut them out and arrange them in a plastic 3x3 card sheet (has 3 rows of 3 pockets). Either use a marker as in 1, or flip the cards in the pockets to show "used" status.
3: Remember that there is an option to have the character summary, action point, and second wind cards not show. Also, there is an menu option to include all weapons on cards. Additonally, if you right click on a card you can customize which weapons you want it to show.
Try some of these out. You may find you like them.
1) What to write? What information would be useful here? Do we include only the hit information? Part of it? Just a fluff description of what the power allows you to do? For the information to be tangible and useful, you'd need some mechanical information. However, most powers have too long descriptions to fit into a single line, so you have to cut on something. How do you generalize this idea for every power?
2) There's the issue on layout. The more text you insert into a small box, the more you lose on legibility. Seeing as all characters end up with at least 17 powers by 30th-level, text is bound to be pretty condensed. So short of completely redesigning the powers section of the character sheet, layout is a problem.
It's a shame you find the cards annoying to cut and use. They're actually a practical solution.
So you would rather have to type everything in for each power for each character or cut and paste it instead of using the CB.
And I find it hard to believe that you are Old School by your actions and mannerisms in your posts.
If you're annoyed by the 3x3 layout of power cards (I never cut mine out), you can set the whole sheet, or just the power cards, to landscape mode. That will display the powers in a 4 x 2 grid. Four columns, yes, but only two rows.
Not a big thing, I know, but it might make usage of the powers sheet more tolerable to you until you can find a better solution.
(Just watch it, the current iteration of Character Builder will throw in a new set of powers every time you change the layout from landscape to portrait or back again. This means you have to create a new character, but before selecting anything, view the character sheet and set the viewing options. Yes, this means you'd have to re-create saved characters from scratch. Sorry, I don't make the app.)
One person would spend some amount of time on this, yes, but I doubt that it would be terribly significant given that all the text already exists within the cards.
The part of this that gets me is you stating it wouldn't take all that much time to implement this change.
How many powers are there now? With each book we get more that would have to be condensed down to a small sentence, then they would have to all be formated to fit in the line since some Power names are longer then others you would have to type set each one to make sure it didn't mess up the rest of the sheet. That process alone would be time consuming. Plus the whole process of trying to decide what text to put there, what is the most useful thing to say and how to fit that information on the line.
Now I am not saying this wouldn't be useful, i would rather see this for the feats myself, but it would be a lot of work. We are alredy not getting all the tools we had hoped to have, and I for one wouldnt want to put this small feature a head of getting something else. Finite time and Infinite options...I would put this on the "It would be nice but not needed" list