Character Building calculating AC wrong? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Character Building calculating AC wrong?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
forsakenmantra
Jan 06, 2011 8:56:02 I am leveling up a lvl 3 Knight for encounters next week and added +2 Magic Plate Armor to my character.

His AC wearing regular Plate is 21, w/ this +2 magic armor, it somehow jumps to 24 AC in the builder. To test this further, if I equip +3 armor it becomes 26 AC and +4 Armor makes the AC 28.

Am I missing something that is making +2 armor add 3 AC, +3 5 AC and +4, 7 AC?
#2
Duskweaver
Jan 06, 2011 9:14:53 Yes. You are missing the effect of masterwork armour, which the new CB factors in automatically. See the table on page 344 of Heroes of the Fallen Lands. As the enhancement bonus increases, the armour bonus also increases beyond the +8 of regular plate.
#3
Mr_Rose
Jan 09, 2011 12:21:15 Wow, that's annoying; you mean you can't select which type of masterwork armour you get now?
What about the extra kinds that have the additional bonuses built in? Or is that added automagically too?
#4
seanwalsh
Jan 09, 2011 14:42:40
Wow, that's annoying; you mean you can't select which type of masterwork armour you get now?
What about the extra kinds that have the additional bonuses built in? Or is that added automagically too?

You can select any type of masterwork armour you want.
If you select standard armour, the additional AC bonus from the new rule is applied. If you select other types of materwork armour, you get the AC bonus and additional bonus associated with that armor.

Examples:
+6 Drakeplate Armor = +20 AC (+14 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement)
+6 Plate Armor = +20 AC (+14 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement)
+6 Braxat Lord Shell Armor = +18 AC (+12 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) and 5 Resist All
+6 Baazrag Bone Armor = +14 AC (+8 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) and 1 Resist All
+6 Gith Plate Armor = +16 AC (+10 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement).

Mr. Rose, it looks like you are an insider, you could check this before posting, right?

#5
Mr_Rose
Jan 09, 2011 15:05:29 Sure I could if the builder ever worked right for me.
#6
lokiare
Jan 09, 2011 16:27:03
Sure I could if the builder ever worked right for me.

Me too, its just too much of a headache to mess with...
#7
Acrylium
Jan 09, 2011 17:45:59 The CB calculates all the defenses wrong. I tried several times, but alway it shows me other numbers than I should have accordning to PHB1 page 275.
#8
llaqus
Jan 09, 2011 19:00:41
The CB calculates all the defenses wrong. I tried several times, but alway it shows me other numbers than I should have accordning to PHB1 page 275.

I think they are talking about an essentals 4th ed character not a traditional 4th ed character which is probably why its not correct based on the traditonal 4th ed rules.
#9
seanwalsh
Jan 09, 2011 19:23:10
The CB calculates all the defenses wrong. I tried several times, but alway it shows me other numbers than I should have accordning to PHB1 page 275.

What class, race, level, et cetera? Which Character Builder?
In my experience, there are very few instances where either Character Builder calculated a defense incorrectly. Of the top of my head, I can only think of two: the Sentinal's AC in the new Character Builder and the Centered Breath Monk's Fortitude in the old Character Builder.

#10
Mr_Rose
Jan 09, 2011 19:38:01 I have reason (that I won't go into here) to suspect that the offline CB also incorrectly calculated the Stone Fist Will bonus, and in exactly the same way.
It also calculated the Heavy Shield wrong for the very longest time; adding 4 AC then taking two away for some reason. Weird, huh?
#11
artoomis
Jan 09, 2011 20:13:16
I have reason (that I won't go into here) to suspect that the offline CB also incorrectly calculated the Stone Fist fort bonus, and in exactly the same way.
It also calculated the Heavy Shield wrong for the very longest time; adding 4 AC then taking two away for some reason. Weird, huh?

Weird, indeed. That bit about add 4 and take away 2 happened to one of my characters, too. The end value was correct,. but it sure looked weird.

I know the off-line CB added an extra Fort for a Centered Breath monk at level 11 and 21 (added 2 instead of only an extra 1 each time) he on0line builder now does this correctly.
#12
Mr_Rose
Jan 09, 2011 20:25:40 Sorry, that should have been Stone Fist *Will* bonus. Got it mixed up with the Centred Breath fort bonus topic of the post I was replying to.
#13
artoomis
Jan 10, 2011 1:00:54
Sorry, that should have been Stone Fist *Will* bonus. Got it mixed up with the Centred Breath fort bonus topic of the post I was replying to.

Yes, I figured that was likely the case - the same error as for a Centered breath monk's Fprt bonus, right? And it is correct on-line, right? It's a pretty big error!
#14
barkwing
Jan 25, 2011 0:34:01 Also, I was just adding a L11 Braidmail (8 AC)+3 armor to my L11 Invoker who previously had a Chainmail (6 AC) +2 armor and my AC only increased by 2...

I did the math and for some reason the CB was giving me this:

10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 (Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = ...25?

After putting the new armor on, I had:

10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 8 (Braidmail) + 3 (+3 armor) = 27

The Braidmail shows properly on the Character Sheet, but where I'm getting that random +1 AC from the Chainmail I have no idea
#15
fcjamison
Jan 25, 2011 0:54:16 10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 (Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = 24, not 25.
#16
thespaceinvader
Jan 25, 2011 3:13:13 The OCB includes the Masterwork bonus to AC automatically, Essentials-style, hence the discrepancy.

But no-one's said how it deals with the extra bonuses to defences/resists that certain old-style Masterworks give.
#17
seanwalsh
Jan 25, 2011 9:08:40
The OCB includes the Masterwork bonus to AC automatically, Essentials-style, hence the discrepancy.

But no-one's said how it deals with the extra bonuses to defences/resists that certain old-style Masterworks give.

Wow, that's annoying; you mean you can't select which type of masterwork armour you get now?
What about the extra kinds that have the additional bonuses built in? Or is that added automagically too?

You can select any type of masterwork armour you want.
If you select standard armour, the additional AC bonus from the new rule is applied. If you select other types of materwork armour, you get the AC bonus and additional bonus associated with that armor.

Examples:
+6 Drakeplate Armor = +20 AC (+14 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement)
+6 Plate Armor = +20 AC (+14 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement)
+6 Braxat Lord Shell Armor = +18 AC (+12 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) and 5 Resist All
+6 Baazrag Bone Armor = +14 AC (+8 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) and 1 Resist All
+6 Gith Plate Armor = +16 AC (+10 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement).

Mr. Rose, it looks like you are an insider, you could check this before posting, right?

#18
barkwing
Jan 26, 2011 14:42:43
10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 (Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = 24, not 25.

That was exactly my point. The Character Builder gives me 25 AC.

#19
artoomis
Jan 26, 2011 15:15:13
10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 (Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = 24, not 25.

That was exactly my point. The Character Builder gives me 25 AC.

You are missing the masterwork bonus of +1.

So the CB is correct.

edit: To be more specific, all +2 Chainmail is "Finemail" which adds an extra +1 to its armor bonus so its +7 instead of +6. I think the extra +1 is added in even if you select only "Chainmail" and not "Finemail."
#20
barkwing
Jan 26, 2011 16:17:28
edit: To be more specific, all +2 Chainmail is "Finemail" which adds an extra +1 to its armor bonus so its +7 instead of +6. I think the extra +1 is added in even if you select only "Chainmail" and not "Finemail."

Ohhhh... so +2 Chainmail "doesn't exist". I'm actually wearing +2 Finemail. I getcha :D
#21
kenjoon
Jan 26, 2011 16:35:45
10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 7 (Masterwork Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = 25

Corrected.
#22
drnick
Jan 26, 2011 22:03:16
edit: To be more specific, all +2 Chainmail is "Finemail" which adds an extra +1 to its armor bonus so its +7 instead of +6. I think the extra +1 is added in even if you select only "Chainmail" and not "Finemail."

Ohhhh... so +2 Chainmail "doesn't exist". I'm actually wearing +2 Finemail. I getcha :D

More like: In order to have a +2 enchantment, chainmail must be masterwork quality.
#23
frothsof
Jan 27, 2011 6:05:41 glad its not confusing anymore
#24
drnick
Jan 27, 2011 10:39:28 "Finemail" isn't the only type of Masterwork armor. There is no such thing as standard +2 chainmail. It doesn't exist. All +2 chainamil (Finemail or not) is masterwork.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 forsakenmantra Jan 06, 2011 8:56:02	I am leveling up a lvl 3 Knight for encounters next week and added +2 Magic Plate Armor to my character. His AC wearing regular Plate is 21, w/ this +2 magic armor, it somehow jumps to 24 AC in the builder. To test this further, if I equip +3 armor it becomes 26 AC and +4 Armor makes the AC 28. Am I missing something that is making +2 armor add 3 AC, +3 5 AC and +4, 7 AC?
#2 Duskweaver Jan 06, 2011 9:14:53	Yes. You are missing the effect of masterwork armour, which the new CB factors in automatically. See the table on page 344 of Heroes of the Fallen Lands. As the enhancement bonus increases, the armour bonus also increases beyond the +8 of regular plate.
#3 Mr_Rose Jan 09, 2011 12:21:15	Wow, that's annoying; you mean you can't select which type of masterwork armour you get now? What about the extra kinds that have the additional bonuses built in? Or is that added automagically too?
#4 seanwalsh Jan 09, 2011 14:42:40	Wow, that's annoying; you mean you can't select which type of masterwork armour you get now? What about the extra kinds that have the additional bonuses built in? Or is that added automagically too? You can select any type of masterwork armour you want. If you select standard armour, the additional AC bonus from the new rule is applied. If you select other types of materwork armour, you get the AC bonus and additional bonus associated with that armor. Examples: +6 Drakeplate Armor = +20 AC (+14 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) +6 Plate Armor = +20 AC (+14 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) +6 Braxat Lord Shell Armor = +18 AC (+12 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) and 5 Resist All +6 Baazrag Bone Armor = +14 AC (+8 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) and 1 Resist All +6 Gith Plate Armor = +16 AC (+10 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement). Mr. Rose, it looks like you are an insider, you could check this before posting, right?
#5 Mr_Rose Jan 09, 2011 15:05:29	Sure I could if the builder ever worked right for me.
#6 lokiare Jan 09, 2011 16:27:03	Sure I could if the builder ever worked right for me. Me too, its just too much of a headache to mess with...
#7 Acrylium Jan 09, 2011 17:45:59	The CB calculates all the defenses wrong. I tried several times, but alway it shows me other numbers than I should have accordning to PHB1 page 275.
#8 llaqus Jan 09, 2011 19:00:41	The CB calculates all the defenses wrong. I tried several times, but alway it shows me other numbers than I should have accordning to PHB1 page 275. I think they are talking about an essentals 4th ed character not a traditional 4th ed character which is probably why its not correct based on the traditonal 4th ed rules.
#9 seanwalsh Jan 09, 2011 19:23:10	The CB calculates all the defenses wrong. I tried several times, but alway it shows me other numbers than I should have accordning to PHB1 page 275. What class, race, level, et cetera? Which Character Builder? In my experience, there are very few instances where either Character Builder calculated a defense incorrectly. Of the top of my head, I can only think of two: the Sentinal's AC in the new Character Builder and the Centered Breath Monk's Fortitude in the old Character Builder.
#10 Mr_Rose Jan 09, 2011 19:38:01	I have reason (that I won't go into here) to suspect that the offline CB also incorrectly calculated the Stone Fist Will bonus, and in exactly the same way. It also calculated the Heavy Shield wrong for the very longest time; adding 4 AC then taking two away for some reason. Weird, huh?
#11 artoomis Jan 09, 2011 20:13:16	I have reason (that I won't go into here) to suspect that the offline CB also incorrectly calculated the Stone Fist fort bonus, and in exactly the same way. It also calculated the Heavy Shield wrong for the very longest time; adding 4 AC then taking two away for some reason. Weird, huh? Weird, indeed. That bit about add 4 and take away 2 happened to one of my characters, too. The end value was correct,. but it sure looked weird. I know the off-line CB added an extra Fort for a Centered Breath monk at level 11 and 21 (added 2 instead of only an extra 1 each time) he on0line builder now does this correctly.
#12 Mr_Rose Jan 09, 2011 20:25:40	Sorry, that should have been Stone Fist *Will* bonus. Got it mixed up with the Centred Breath fort bonus topic of the post I was replying to.
#13 artoomis Jan 10, 2011 1:00:54	Sorry, that should have been Stone Fist *Will* bonus. Got it mixed up with the Centred Breath fort bonus topic of the post I was replying to. Yes, I figured that was likely the case - the same error as for a Centered breath monk's Fprt bonus, right? And it is correct on-line, right? It's a pretty big error!
#14 barkwing Jan 25, 2011 0:34:01	Also, I was just adding a L11 Braidmail (8 AC)+3 armor to my L11 Invoker who previously had a Chainmail (6 AC) +2 armor and my AC only increased by 2... I did the math and for some reason the CB was giving me this: 10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 (Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = ...25? After putting the new armor on, I had: 10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 8 (Braidmail) + 3 (+3 armor) = 27 The Braidmail shows properly on the Character Sheet, but where I'm getting that random +1 AC from the Chainmail I have no idea
#15 fcjamison Jan 25, 2011 0:54:16	10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 (Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = 24, not 25.
#16 thespaceinvader Jan 25, 2011 3:13:13	The OCB includes the Masterwork bonus to AC automatically, Essentials-style, hence the discrepancy. But no-one's said how it deals with the extra bonuses to defences/resists that certain old-style Masterworks give.
#17 seanwalsh Jan 25, 2011 9:08:40	The OCB includes the Masterwork bonus to AC automatically, Essentials-style, hence the discrepancy. But no-one's said how it deals with the extra bonuses to defences/resists that certain old-style Masterworks give. Wow, that's annoying; you mean you can't select which type of masterwork armour you get now? What about the extra kinds that have the additional bonuses built in? Or is that added automagically too? You can select any type of masterwork armour you want. If you select standard armour, the additional AC bonus from the new rule is applied. If you select other types of materwork armour, you get the AC bonus and additional bonus associated with that armor. Examples: +6 Drakeplate Armor = +20 AC (+14 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) +6 Plate Armor = +20 AC (+14 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) +6 Braxat Lord Shell Armor = +18 AC (+12 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) and 5 Resist All +6 Baazrag Bone Armor = +14 AC (+8 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement) and 1 Resist All +6 Gith Plate Armor = +16 AC (+10 AC bonus, +6 Enhancement). Mr. Rose, it looks like you are an insider, you could check this before posting, right?
#18 barkwing Jan 26, 2011 14:42:43	10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 (Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = 24, not 25. That was exactly my point. The Character Builder gives me 25 AC.
#19 artoomis Jan 26, 2011 15:15:13	10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 (Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = 24, not 25. That was exactly my point. The Character Builder gives me 25 AC. You are missing the masterwork bonus of +1. So the CB is correct. edit: To be more specific, all +2 Chainmail is "Finemail" which adds an extra +1 to its armor bonus so its +7 instead of +6. I think the extra +1 is added in even if you select only "Chainmail" and not "Finemail."
#20 barkwing Jan 26, 2011 16:17:28	edit: To be more specific, all +2 Chainmail is "Finemail" which adds an extra +1 to its armor bonus so its +7 instead of +6. I think the extra +1 is added in even if you select only "Chainmail" and not "Finemail." Ohhhh... so +2 Chainmail "doesn't exist". I'm actually wearing +2 Finemail. I getcha :D
#21 kenjoon Jan 26, 2011 16:35:45	10 + 5 (1/2charlevel) + 1 (Rod Expertise Shield Bonus) + 6 7 (Masterwork Chainmail) + 2 (+2 armor) = 25 Corrected.
#22 drnick Jan 26, 2011 22:03:16	edit: To be more specific, all +2 Chainmail is "Finemail" which adds an extra +1 to its armor bonus so its +7 instead of +6. I think the extra +1 is added in even if you select only "Chainmail" and not "Finemail." Ohhhh... so +2 Chainmail "doesn't exist". I'm actually wearing +2 Finemail. I getcha :D More like: In order to have a +2 enchantment, chainmail must be masterwork quality.
#23 frothsof Jan 27, 2011 6:05:41	glad its not confusing anymore
#24 drnick Jan 27, 2011 10:39:28	"Finemail" isn't the only type of Masterwork armor. There is no such thing as standard +2 chainmail. It doesn't exist. All +2 chainamil (Finemail or not) is masterwork.