Character Hit Points Error? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Character Hit Points Error?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jrconover
Aug 13, 2009 19:51:58 I am scratching my noggin at present due to some odd HP calculations.

I have the most recent version, and having made a starting Cleric and apparently have 22 HP to start.

I am not sure if I have just obviously missing something in a rulebook or what have you, but 22 is a bit crazy for a CON 10 Cleric.

PHB states that the HP should be 12 + CON bonus. So this character should be sitting at 12 HP and I am trying to find where the heck these floating 10 HP are coming from. Looking at my other characters recently made i am seeing a similar issue.

This character does not have the feat: toughness. Heck, even that would only give a +5 at first level.

So, am I missing something?

Summary text dump follows (useless data removed)

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Thakalad, level 1
Kalashtar, Cleric
Build: Devoted Cleric
Kalashtar: Religion Bonus
Background: Found Religion Among Others (+2 Diplomacy, Learned: Diplomacy, +2 Intimidation)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 18.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 16.

AC: 16 Fort: 11 Reflex: 10 Will: 16
HP: 22 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 5

FEATS
Cleric: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Defensive Healing Word

POWERS
Channel Divinity: Turn Undead
Cleric at-will 1: Sacred Flame
Cleric at-will 1: Astral Seal
Cleric encounter 1: Bane
Cleric daily 1: Astral Condemnation
#2
Astromath
Aug 13, 2009 20:41:47
PHB states that the HP should be 12 + CON bonus.

That is incorrect, the PH states that it should be 12 + CON, NOT CON bonus.
#3
Xaielao2
Aug 15, 2009 9:57:31 Yea that change to HP calculation catches just about everyone when you start making 4e characters. It's been con mod for what seems forever so its easily overlooked.
#4
misterfido_dup
Aug 15, 2009 10:11:31 Wizards employees should have a drinking game, where every time someone wonders why their hit points are so high at 1st level, they drink a shot.

...I wonder what other questions could invoke a shot... hmm.... "why is wizard so underpowered now?"

But anyway, yeah: Con SCORE not Con MODIFIER. And my players used to think that made Con near to useless until I explained it to them like this:

If you're a cleric with a Con score of 10, you have 22 hit points, and if you put 2 more points into it, you have 24 hit points--and it never effects your base hit point total again. BUT, with a Con score of 10, you have 7 healing surges, each worth 5 hit points, effectively 57 hit points every day. Those two more points get you an additional healing surge, and raise their value to 6--for about 72 hit points per day.

Quite the difference, isn't it?

Anyway, the Con score thing was built to reduce, but not remove, the impact of Constitution on hit points. Their design goal in this regard was to make every stat dumpable--that is, depending on your class and build, you should be able to put an 8 into any stat and not suffer for it. Constitution now qualifies, and yet, is still very important.
#5
jamesruglia21
Aug 15, 2009 11:10:34 Hm. I don't like dumping stats; overly-specialized or efficient characters tend to be uninteresting. Is everyone in the realms of DnD either a horse or a bookworm?

But I do appreciate knowing at least why they did it like this, and if MMORPGs aren't unique then that's how most people like to play anyway. Then starting out with a lot of Con and then adding to other stats with levels would be more efficient than adding to Con later, right?
#6
Janx_14
Aug 15, 2009 11:58:48 Characters start with higher HP now, but so do monsters, kobolds have HP in the 20's as well. I have no idea what your MMORPG comment is on about, the goal was to make character's more durable at level 1 and since monsters also are, its not like it changed the ratio between level 1 hero and monster.

But yes, adding Con later is usually a bad idea unless its an essential stat for your class.
#7
misterfido_dup
Aug 15, 2009 13:48:38
Hm. I don't like dumping stats; overly-specialized or efficient characters tend to be uninteresting. Is everyone in the realms of DnD either a horse or a bookworm?

But I do appreciate knowing at least why they did it like this, and if MMORPGs aren't unique then that's how most people like to play anyway. Then starting out with a lot of Con and then adding to other stats with levels would be more efficient than adding to Con later, right?

Not really sure what any of this meant. Horse or bookworm? And the MMORPG comment lost me. But I'll go by the general gist of it:

You don't HAVE to dump stats. My point was that in 4E, all other things being equal, Strength is as important as Constitution, as Dexterity, as Intelligence, as Wisdom, as Charisma. Therefore, you can dump ANY of those stats, or not, and it's not a matter of "Well, I need Constitution no matter what for hit points; and I need Intelligence for skill points; so I'm going to dump Charisma." but a matter of personal taste, and how you want your character to flow in combat.

As for MMORPG's... still don't get it. But yes, you only get 6 x 2 (IIRC) chances to up stats in 4E, so getting your stats right in the beginning very critical--as it always has been. In 4E, it's generally assumed your stat increases will be for your primary and secondary ability scores--but they don't ENFORCE this since you might have a creative plan for tweaking stats or multiclassing. So unless Constitution is critical to your class, it's better to set it once, at the beginning of your career, and be done with it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jrconover Aug 13, 2009 19:51:58	I am scratching my noggin at present due to some odd HP calculations. I have the most recent version, and having made a starting Cleric and apparently have 22 HP to start. I am not sure if I have just obviously missing something in a rulebook or what have you, but 22 is a bit crazy for a CON 10 Cleric. PHB states that the HP should be 12 + CON bonus. So this character should be sitting at 12 HP and I am trying to find where the heck these floating 10 HP are coming from. Looking at my other characters recently made i am seeing a similar issue. This character does not have the feat: toughness. Heck, even that would only give a +5 at first level. So, am I missing something? Summary text dump follows (useless data removed) ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Thakalad, level 1 Kalashtar, Cleric Build: Devoted Cleric Kalashtar: Religion Bonus Background: Found Religion Among Others (+2 Diplomacy, Learned: Diplomacy, +2 Intimidation) FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 12, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 18. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 12, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 16. AC: 16 Fort: 11 Reflex: 10 Will: 16 HP: 22 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 5 FEATS Cleric: Ritual Caster Level 1: Defensive Healing Word POWERS Channel Divinity: Turn Undead Cleric at-will 1: Sacred Flame Cleric at-will 1: Astral Seal Cleric encounter 1: Bane Cleric daily 1: Astral Condemnation
#2 Astromath Aug 13, 2009 20:41:47	PHB states that the HP should be 12 + CON bonus. That is incorrect, the PH states that it should be 12 + CON, NOT CON bonus.
#3 Xaielao2 Aug 15, 2009 9:57:31	Yea that change to HP calculation catches just about everyone when you start making 4e characters. It's been con mod for what seems forever so its easily overlooked.
#4 misterfido_dup Aug 15, 2009 10:11:31	Wizards employees should have a drinking game, where every time someone wonders why their hit points are so high at 1st level, they drink a shot. ...I wonder what other questions could invoke a shot... hmm.... "why is wizard so underpowered now?" But anyway, yeah: Con SCORE not Con MODIFIER. And my players used to think that made Con near to useless until I explained it to them like this: If you're a cleric with a Con score of 10, you have 22 hit points, and if you put 2 more points into it, you have 24 hit points--and it never effects your base hit point total again. BUT, with a Con score of 10, you have 7 healing surges, each worth 5 hit points, effectively 57 hit points every day. Those two more points get you an additional healing surge, and raise their value to 6--for about 72 hit points per day. Quite the difference, isn't it? Anyway, the Con score thing was built to reduce, but not remove, the impact of Constitution on hit points. Their design goal in this regard was to make every stat dumpable--that is, depending on your class and build, you should be able to put an 8 into any stat and not suffer for it. Constitution now qualifies, and yet, is still very important.
#5 jamesruglia21 Aug 15, 2009 11:10:34	Hm. I don't like dumping stats; overly-specialized or efficient characters tend to be uninteresting. Is everyone in the realms of DnD either a horse or a bookworm? But I do appreciate knowing at least why they did it like this, and if MMORPGs aren't unique then that's how most people like to play anyway. Then starting out with a lot of Con and then adding to other stats with levels would be more efficient than adding to Con later, right?
#6 Janx_14 Aug 15, 2009 11:58:48	Characters start with higher HP now, but so do monsters, kobolds have HP in the 20's as well. I have no idea what your MMORPG comment is on about, the goal was to make character's more durable at level 1 and since monsters also are, its not like it changed the ratio between level 1 hero and monster. But yes, adding Con later is usually a bad idea unless its an essential stat for your class.
#7 misterfido_dup Aug 15, 2009 13:48:38	Hm. I don't like dumping stats; overly-specialized or efficient characters tend to be uninteresting. Is everyone in the realms of DnD either a horse or a bookworm? But I do appreciate knowing at least why they did it like this, and if MMORPGs aren't unique then that's how most people like to play anyway. Then starting out with a lot of Con and then adding to other stats with levels would be more efficient than adding to Con later, right? Not really sure what any of this meant. Horse or bookworm? And the MMORPG comment lost me. But I'll go by the general gist of it: You don't HAVE to dump stats. My point was that in 4E, all other things being equal, Strength is as important as Constitution, as Dexterity, as Intelligence, as Wisdom, as Charisma. Therefore, you can dump ANY of those stats, or not, and it's not a matter of "Well, I need Constitution no matter what for hit points; and I need Intelligence for skill points; so I'm going to dump Charisma." but a matter of personal taste, and how you want your character to flow in combat. As for MMORPG's... still don't get it. But yes, you only get 6 x 2 (IIRC) chances to up stats in 4E, so getting your stats right in the beginning very critical--as it always has been. In 4E, it's generally assumed your stat increases will be for your primary and secondary ability scores--but they don't ENFORCE this since you might have a creative plan for tweaking stats or multiclassing. So unless Constitution is critical to your class, it's better to set it once, at the beginning of your career, and be done with it.