Could we get a +1/-1 level button for the monsters so that we can quickly get a set of stats for higher or lower level monsters?
So your goal is to be able to click a button and have a monster generated with the same powers but one level higher/lower? Kind of a dynamic monster generator in a way, correct?
Might be a challenge, as level changes can encompass more than just scaling hps, etc. (Powers can change, and even the scaled values may not be linear). But I'll put it on the list!
just doing the simple level up/level down in the DMG; Seems like it would be more of a data rendering job than altering any databases.
Agreed, but we always have to be careful when we add something like this that auto-magically alters data. It's one thing when a human is doing it based on a formula, the human can always look at the results and decide if they are practical or not, you have some built in filtering.
Computers, not so smart, so if we do decide to add the feature, we'll have to do a lot of fringe case testing.
I wish I had a DMG to see how a monster scales up a single level to write the code real quick for it in javascript that oculd be used with compendium.
The rules for level up
Boosting a monster’s level is easy. Just increase its attack rolls, defenses, and AC by 1 for every level you add. For every two levels, increase the damage it deals with its attacks by 1. The monster also gains extra hit points at each level, based on its role (see the “Monster Statistics by Role” table on page 184).
Decreasing a monster’s level works like increasing it, but in reverse. For each level down, reduce the creature’s attack rolls, defenses, and AC by 1 and drop its hit points based on its role. For every two levels, also reduce its damage by 1.
This process works best for adjusting a monster’s level up to five higher or lower. Beyond that, the monster changes so much that you’d do better to start with another creature of the desired role and level range.
Boosting a monster’s level is easy. Just increase its attack rolls, defenses, and AC by 1 for every level you add. For every two levels, increase the damage it deals with its attacks by 1. The monster also gains extra hit points at each level, based on its role (see the “Monster Statistics by Role” table on page 184).
Decreasing a monster’s level works like increasing it, but in reverse. For each level down, reduce the creature’s attack rolls, defenses, and AC by 1 and drop its hit points based on its role. For every two levels, also reduce its damage by 1.
This process works best for adjusting a monster’s level up to five higher or lower. Beyond that, the monster changes so much that you’d do better to start with another creature of the desired role and level range.
I understand why this could take a while, certain people would flame to no end if you guys messed up even a little.The rules for level up
Boosting a monster’s level is easy. Just increase its attack rolls, defenses, and AC by 1 for every level you add. For every two levels, increase the damage it deals with its attacks by 1. The monster also gains extra hit points at each level, based on its role (see the “Monster Statistics by Role” table on page 184).
Decreasing a monster’s level works like increasing it, but in reverse. For each level down, reduce the creature’s attack rolls, defenses, and AC by 1 and drop its hit points based on its role. For every two levels, also reduce its damage by 1.
This process works best for adjusting a monster’s level up to five higher or lower. Beyond that, the monster changes so much that you’d do better to start with another creature of the desired role and level range.
Essentially a monster of role 'x' gets this many hp's ac etc etc... then it leaves the rest up to racial modification to suit your needs.
if i could find a place to host it for download that isn't those silly filesharing sites.
If you actually create this, I'll host it for you.
If you actually create this, I'll host it for you.
And I'll mirror it.
Agreed, but we always have to be careful when we add something like this that auto-magically alters data. It's one thing when a human is doing it based on a formula, the human can always look at the results and decide if they are practical or not, you have some built in filtering.
Computers, not so smart, so if we do decide to add the feature, we'll have to do a lot of fringe case testing.
What could be done is that when someone alters a monster, a warning at the top of the altered monster, in bright red, scrolling and flashing letters appears:
[indent]Caution must be taken when altering monsters outside of their level, you may unintentionally make monsters too strong or too weak for their resulting level. Altering a monster by more than +/- X levels requires more in-depth work.[/indent]
(Where X is a number provided by R&D.)
What could be done is that when someone alters a monster, a warning at the top of the altered monster, in bright red, scrolling and flashing letters appears:
[indent]Caution must be taken when altering monsters outside of their level, you may unintentionally make monsters too strong or too weak for their resulting level. Altering a monster by more than +/- X levels requires more in-depth work.[/indent]
(Where X is a number provided by R&D.)
X=5 in the MM. ;)
If you actually create this, I'll host it for you.
I got something, but no MM to actually put in the monsters and that would sort of be illegal to do anyway.WotC_TomO is working on something. Maybe having the proper rights and info he will beat me to it.
I just need to remember how to let people download and not stream a flash file and get it to work or it will never work in fla format.Lets see what TomO has in that new bonus tool first.
(I hate flash! :banghead
And I'll mirror it.
And I'll link it (since I can't host or mirror, or I would do that).
What could be done is that when someone alters a monster, a warning at the top of the altered monster, in bright red, scrolling and flashing letters appears:
[indent]Caution must be taken when altering monsters outside of their level, you may unintentionally make monsters too strong or too weak for their resulting level. Altering a monster by more than +/- X levels requires more in-depth work.[/indent]
(Where X is a number provided by R&D.)
Although James (or whoever wrote that particular section of the DM Toolbox) suggests 5 as the maximum adjustment, I have so far found that number to be pretty far out there. I adjusted a level 9 gargoyle to level 4, and his defenses became less than those of a goblin minion.
3 is the maximum I would use in most instances, though I'm hesitant to adjust beyond 2, really.
I wish I had a DMG to see how a monster scales up a single level to write the code real quick for it in javascript that oculd be used with compendium.
He was not talking about being unable to implement the raw algorithm from the DMG. He was saying that if they would put in that algorithm, there would be a problem. The algorithm, as printed in the DMG, is made for a human who can judge if the algorithm produces a good result or not. A simple implementation of the algorithm can not do this.
He also said that it would be very difficult to create anything that would be capable of judging if the pure result of the DMG algorithm works or not. And this I can totally understand.
If they would implement the DMG algorithm as stated the following will happen:
DM Honk would use the tool to get monster Foo, level it up by five levels and would then start a thread on the boards "The compendium DESTROYED my game and made all my friends hate me". The thread would state, that the upleveled Foo killed his entire party, despite the compendium saying it would be an apropirate challenge for them.
Lots of people would take the chance to be able to claim that all DDI developers are incapable retards unable to get one bit right, and now finally it is proven that DDI is doomed.
It isn't for the compendium to tell you if the developers of the game screwed up some mechanic, but to provide those mechanics.
Maybe D&DC isn't the place for it, but it COULD be done there, and it would use the RAW for it. How people misread/misuse it would be there own problem, same as for the books.
This just allows for quicker lookups of the leveled critters. You can see by the DMG way HOW it is done finally so if you do it yourself in the future you would know what the end result should be.
Thus why so many people have no use for the attack workspace ont he character sheet in the PHB because there is no example. D&DC could prvoide examples of this math to help clear a few things up, and if it is done by RAW, then misuse is left to the players.
DDI does not exist to tell you how to play, but SHOULD be the very thing that has all those calculators that cannot be present on paper, to do the things WotC is not allowed to do by not having the digital rights.
For the "comminity feedback" it is not important why it exists but what people think why it exists and what they expect. And it seems that expectations vary immensely.
It isn't for the compendium to tell you
In your opinion yes, in a lot of other peoples opinion not. And for DM Honk your opinion does not matter but his.
if the developers of the game screwed up some mechanic, but to provide those mechanics.
The developers did not screw up if they developed an algorithm for human beings which can't be taken as it is to be adapted to a computer. Computers and humans work differently.
Maybe D&DC isn't the place for it, but it COULD be done there, and it would use the RAW for it.
And nobody said RAW couldn't be implemented. Indeed RAW is so totally simple that you can implement it in one or two hours and test it in about a day. And while my DM Honk scenario may be a bit over the top (well considering what I have seen in message boards it may as well be a best case scenario ;) ) something like that can totally happen.
How people misread/misuse it would be there own problem, same as for the books.
There are a bazillion of posts from people on these boards who have abused the rules or the compendium or anything and cry out loud that it isn't working and how they dare to release anything as broken as it is. And these people get so mad and demand that Wizards fires their employees and the boards bristle with personal attacks versus Wizards employees that I can totally understand that they are very very careful with what they are doing.
This just allows for quicker lookups of the leveled critters. You can see by the DMG way HOW it is done finally so if you do it yourself in the future you would know what the end result should be.
Yeah, it would be so easy if role players would just be a little bit more forgiving. But they are not. Lots of them demand perfection in exactly the way they define perfection, are not capable of accepting that other people may have different mind sets and so if anybody does anything they don't understand he will be verbally stoned to death :P
Note: I am a role player, too, and I include myself in the previous statement.
Thus why so many people have no use for the attack workspace ont he character sheet in the PHB because there is no example. D&DC could prvoide examples of this math to help clear a few things up, and if it is done by RAW, then misuse is left to the players.
Hm, I am not a big fan of the attack workspace, but I think it's pretty clear from the rules how to use it.
Anyways I agree with Hellmute. The best thing is to note on the application that your milage mayvary, and use it at your own risk. Then put no level limits on it. If someone moves a goblin cutter to level 20, thats their own deal.
Warning! RAW is made to use human judgement. After using this, look at the new monster yourself before implementing.
Or something along those lines that looks more professional.
Thanks,
Hdier