1. You haven't seen the assassin class yet. You really have no idea what it's gonna be like. Why do we have multiple threads devoted to how it sucks or we don't need it, etc?
2. In general, it seems like I'm seeing alot of threads where it is clear the author hasn't even tried the DDI material he is blasting. I.E. "Hybrids are so broken, they are only for power gamers!" "What do you think is so broken about them?" "Uhm, well, I don't know. I haven't actually tried it. But there has to be something broken with that kind of versatility!"
There is a difference between constructive criticism and complaining about something just because it's new.
There is a difference between constructive criticism and complaining about something just because it's new.
Indeed! One is a time-honored geek tradition, and the other is constructive criticism.
Indeed! One is a time-honored geek tradition, and the other is constructive criticism.
Hay-o!
Buh DUM ..PSH!
There is a difference between constructive criticism and complaining about something just because it's new.
and your thread serves... what?
Honestly, if there are threads that have those topics/issues as their main purpose, you should just ignore those threads. Because you are not allowed to do anything about it (we are all the same kind of users) and seriously, you don't want that either. (imagine you'd have to check such a mess of posts for unbiasedness.)
1. People who are opposed to the idea of playing an assassin, well, they are opposed to the very idea of it. Complaining that we don't know how it looks like, and thus should not have that opinion, is flat-out not responding to the issues people have with the class (and primarily its name).
2. That powergaming statement seems aimed at my argument. You might want to reread WHY I figured this. You might also want to read how the people who answered to this complaint of mine, immediately gave full builds (which someone following a more storytelling direction would not at all care about). Also, because i figure something is only for powergamers, does not make it broken - it's merely limiting features from a book to a certain variety of gamers. I don't know why many people think powergaming to be an insult or whatever - I'm a partial powergamer[1], and proud of it.
[1] however my optimising needs arise from a specific situation - as i usually pick something unusual, i need to optimise the character to not suck at verything i do. like that concept of an eladrin balanced starlock, which currently floats around my mind.
Eh... guess this post serves no purpose either.
Hay-o!
Buh DUM ..PSH!
I'm here all week, folks.
The hybrid character rules break down each class into parts. (...) When combined with the hybrid version of another class, these two partial classes create a whole, functional class. In practice, it's not quite as simple as that. Because character classes aren't designed to be broken down and recombined in this way, not every hybrid is equally effective.
The hybrid character system discards many of the safeguards built into the normal class system (...) The sheer number of combinations available - a number that will only grow as more classes are published - ensures that some combinations may well feel underpowered or ineffective.
Character classes aren't designed to be broken down and recombined like building blocks, so this new system presents a plethora of potential pitfalls.
While agreeing with the OP's sentiment, I think hybrid classes are a bad example. It's perfectly legitimate to cite them as broken even without playing them, given that the developers themselves repeatedly warn that they're unbalanced.
*Insert Inneundo here*
While agreeing with the OP's sentiment, I think hybrid classes are a bad example. It's perfectly legitimate to cite them as broken even without playing them, given that the developers themselves repeatedly warn that they're unbalanced.
Except that they are only warning us that certain combinations will suck (at least in the text you quoted). I don't see that as a huge problem. You can't make a system where all build choices are good ones. True, it's easier to make something you think is good but utterly fails with the hybrid system, hence the warning, but when I say "broken", I mean things that put characters (or monsters) into the too powerful end of things. If a character is too weak because of his choices, his DM can just help him out by pointing out why his character is having so much trouble and help him tweak it.
If anyone feels that something is overpowered for hybrids, my first question is why they aren't sharing it in my organized feedback thread that might actually lead to something being done about the problem.
I like cake. I don't want to try pie.
Have you had this delicious cake-pie though?
Have you had this delicious cake-pie though?
Would that be pie, with a cake filling, or cake with pie sprinkled on top?
Cake-pie is like a tur-duck-en.
It is a cake with a pie baked inside.
There is also the Cak-pi-nut...a cake with a pie inside it, which has a doughnut inside that.
There is also the Cak-pi-nut...a cake with a pie inside it, which has a doughnut inside that.
WANT.
Now, find room to add bacon. ;)
WANT.
Now, find room to add bacon. ;)
Nobody needs to "find" room for Bacon. Bacon makes its own room.
Nobody needs to "find" room for Bacon. Bacon makes its own room.
Exactly. You simply wrap it around whatever your cooking to make it more deliciousier.
My frustration comes from the fact that these conversations seem to thrive while *honest* attempts (for lack of a better word) at conversation seem so often to flounder. We have a dozen 10+ page threads devoted to "1001 Things I Hate About DnD" and a 15+ page "DDi is Worthless" thread; meanwhile, the guy who just wants to talk about Monster Manual 2 can't seem to get a glance (let alone a response).
I don't much care for endless debates, outright arguments or fights. I have more than enough negativity in my life; I visit the boards because unlike my work (which demands I be professional at all times) and my family (who demands I be responsible at all times) you guys and gals allow me to kick back, relax, unwind, to talk about my favorite hobby.
It's easy to focus on (even feed off of) negativity while overlooking the positive. Heck, trying to be positive is often looked down upon in my experience ;) (some see it as the equivalent of thread-dumping I think). Friendly conversation can be found, you just have to look a bit harder.
It's easy to focus on (even feed off of) negativity while overlooking the positive. Heck, trying to be positive is often looked down upon in my experience ;) (some see it as the equivalent of thread-dumping I think). Friendly conversation can be found, you just have to look a bit harder.
[further derailment]
I find it odd (sad?) that in life in general - and maginfied further on any Internet forum - positivity means you're someone to be dismissed (a shill, an apologist, a plant, someone's who's been bought, etc), but negativity is generally rewarded and even escalated.
If someone posts a positive counter to a negative opinion the battlecry tends to boil down to "You can't tell me I'm wrong! My opinion is valid!"
The irony being that if *all* opinions are equally valid (a topic I would debate) that means the positive opinion is just as valid as the negative one.
C'est la vie, I suppose.
[/further derailment]
also, kinda nice to see how people who believe them on "the right side of the discussion" derail threads that go against their beliefs, and complain about the exact same thing when it happens to their "own" threads.
it's also interesting how people who say they want to discuss things just always dismiss or even ignore posts filled with arguments, so they can say there were none presented...
When your last post claimed "that powergaming statement seems aimed at my argument", I laughed and moved on. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't even really know who you are, and I had to go and search for the argument you were referring to.
also, kinda nice to see how people who believe them on "the right side of the discussion" derail threads that go against their beliefs, and complain about the exact same thing when it happens to their "own" threads.
This is another reason I didn't bother replying to your post. I have no idea what you are talking about in half of what I've seen you write.
Edit: Clarified the last sentence.
When your last post claimed "that powergaming statement seems aimed at my argument", I laughed and moved on. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't even really know who you are, and I had to go and search for the argument you were referring to.
This is another reason I usually don't bother replying to your posts. I have no idea what you are talking about.
I'm not sure but I get the feeling that last part might be in reference to my post. Or maybe I'm just crazy. I only wonder because Wolfstar's mentioned '[further derailment]' in reply ;).
I don't even really know who you are
[..]
I usually don't bother replying to your posts.
funny, how one can put two entirely different directions within the same post. either you know who i am, and don't usually reply to my posts, or you don't know me.
but really, really, really, can we close this useless spamming point? ...
i have seen nothing in this thread that is at all reasonable, or part of a discussion
Wait, what was the discussion about?
Well, see the cake is baked in a pie shell, and syrupy berries are drizzled on top to...
Wait, what was the discussion about?
There was a discussion?
Dammit Aberzanzorax, we need to know!!