Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bizmal Apr 08, 2009 20:45:06	Is any one disapointed that the table top for D&Di is not out yet? I also hear they have delayed it and that it may not be coming out at all? I mean they through that in our face for how long and then POOF! Sorry that was the one thing worth paying for is gone. trash D&Di blows what a waste.
#2 Nyarlathotep Apr 08, 2009 20:50:13	I don't think anyone really noticed. I mean, look how devoid the boards are of threads on the subject.... ;)
#3 bizmal Apr 08, 2009 20:55:15	Yah, well I guess this says it all. Thank-you, we have successfully submitted your request for cancelling your Auto-Renew status. Watch your e-mail Inbox – you will receive an e-mail shortly confirming that your request has successfully arrived in the hands of our Customer Service team. A second e-mail will notify you that we have successfully cancelled Auto-Renew for your subscription.
#4 kyros_tachyus Apr 08, 2009 21:21:49	There have been numerous threads on the subject. Many, myself included, are vastly disappointed about this. So here is what I can tell you about the issue: Wizards of the Coast has not released any information directly related to the Virtual Tabletop since June of last year (correct me if I'm wrong guys and gals). Wizards of the Coast has not said they are canceling the VTT, nor have they said they will be releasing the VTT. All we can do is wait for them to tell us some information about it. Though you can try Customer Service and ask them or lodge a complaint with them about it if you would like to.
#5 mudbunny Apr 08, 2009 21:53:33	WotC_DM made a statement on the state of each tool: I can say that the dungeon Builder is fairly close to beta, but still requires the capability to be updated, and we have been working on the character builder updater with the intent to use it for the other applications. So we have some integration steps to do for the Dungeon Builder to be shippable. The Game Table and the Character Visualizer are in Alpha stage. If it was up to me only, I would have the Dungeon Builder released next, then the Game Table, then the Character Visualizer last, provided we can do this without endangering our monthly updates for the already released applications. I am giving you here my personal opinion, and you can believe I will support it internally. Beyond that, I don't recall anything.
#6 kyros_tachyus Apr 08, 2009 22:06:56	Thanks for the quote MB.
#7 mudbunny Apr 08, 2009 22:10:06	I love my Clippings extension for Firefox...
#8 _Mithreinmaethor_ Apr 08, 2009 22:12:16	No I am not disappointed that the tool is not available as of yet. The minor pittance I pay for Dragon, Dungeon, Compendium and Character Builder are more than worth the money I spend. Once the other tools come online I will see if the increase in fees will be worth my while at that point.
#9 KM.549 Apr 09, 2009 4:40:51	MB, do you remember how long ago that statement was posted? Also, I know this was asked before, but is the same people working on DDi the same people working on other DnD computer stuff? Like the facebook tiny adventures. IMO they should be working on DDi only.
#10 seTiny Apr 09, 2009 7:21:57	I love my Clippings extension for Firefox... Cheater! I actually go back and find the stuff. :P MB, do you remember how long ago that statement was posted? December 17, 2008. It was in the thread about Randy Buehler being laid off. When someone quotes there is a blue arrow next to the name of the quoted person that will take you to the post. (Unless the person just uses the quote tag.)
#42 eleran Apr 15, 2009 9:04:19	I, for one, am pretty happy with the current DDi offerings and was even more encouraged by the poll results released yesterday which would seem to indicate that the Tabletop need not be a priority since it is at the bottom of the list of things the responders actually want to see. I am one of those responders and I am much more willing to plunk more hard earned dollars for some kind of campaign and adventure building software than some VTT I don't need because I already have a real TT to play on.
#43 dazmiuth Apr 15, 2009 19:03:22	The part of the whole argument from the WotC supporters that blows my mind is that they actually believe it is the consumer's fault that we feel let down and disappointed with DDI. I've said this before, and I will say it again, the consumers did not advertise these programs and services, WotC did. WotC advertised it as a major selling point of the system. For many of us, that selling point is what caused us to purchase the game. If many of you don't remember, WotC offerred the following glimpse at 4th edition prior to the books being released, pay attention to the last two clips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_e5wAUwdmM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLNNbcgiSs&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aLXuMb6WWw&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj-9vMYGu0Q&feature=related I remember how pumped up I got thinking about playing online with my friends. We are all busy irl with family and professional responsibilities and the VTT was going to make getting together for a game much easier. Then, the core books come out and if you don't remember, the ad's in the back say the following: "Combat Improves When You Add A Mouse" Bring even more to your game table with D&D Insider. With quick access to exclusive material and digital tools D&DI will help enhance every aspect of your tabletop game. And, with D&DI, you can take your game online, so you can play with friends anywhere-wherever they live, wherever you go. Of course we all remember that DDI was not available upon the release of the books, but they did have lots of advertisements for it. They finally released DDI which was composed of Dungeon and Dragon magazines, the compendium, and some bonus tools. At that point they had the words COMING SOON! written above the CB, DB, CV, and VTT. WotC came out and said, "hey everyone, we know we don't have a lot of the stuff we promised, but if you sign up now we will lock in your billing price for the remainder of your subscription, even when all the other tools come out." A lot of people are probably in the same boat as me and thought: "You know, I really am not interested in the E-Zines and I really want DDI mainly for the VTT, but hey, it says coming soon and surely the CB,VTT,CV,DB will be out before too long, it says so right on the advertisement. I might as well buy it now." One could argue that it was deceptive business practice. They advertised advertised advertised, got people to subscribe, then took all of it down from the site and are now saying, "we have no information for you at this time" or, "we did a poll and you guys don't really want that stuff." Most of us who are upset have very valid reasons. WotC is not making it any better by being so hush hush about it. Just be honest and tell us what is going on.
#44 orc_bafel Apr 16, 2009 12:38:44	Hi. I had to remove some content from this thread because it violates the Code of Conduct
#45 Shemeska_the_Marauder Apr 17, 2009 16:34:12	The edits and post deletions in this thread are getting a bit overboard. Please don't go down the same path that Mike Lescault took in terms of deleting posts that while unflattering to various persons or entities, were not violations of the CoC. Board moderation has greatly improved since then, but this is backsliding. I've been getting a ton of emails about new posts to this thread and they're vanished by the time I actually check on the thread itself.
#46 Dane_McArdy Apr 17, 2009 16:45:22	I would have to agree with z64dan. That is one way to go about it. However, I hate to say it but I honestly don't think that will make them release the table any sooner... I don't know how many people are upset and have stated that they won't be paying for anything now... but I know it is quite a few people. Make your opinions heard if you want and contact Customer Service. You know, we are all quite capable of playing without the table top. So lets not try and make them rush it, and get a crappy product. Seriously, I'm looking forward to it. Alot. It's one of the things that got me back into DnD more then what I was doing.
#47 Fox_Reeveheart Apr 18, 2009 1:08:51	Boy oh boy... I should start a business with their business model :3 i'll make a killing. Advertise so much and give so little and once a year maybe say something about future developments. Loyalists will stick around and I'll be rich beyond my wildest dreams of avarice. But yeah, i haven't given them one red cent concerning ddi from me :D and they won't get one until they start pumping out the good stuff.... my ddi rating right now...... 4 out of 10, maybe 3.5 Character builder: Im not a member but at least it's better than e-tools, remember that steaming pile of doo-doo? O_o that thing was TERRIBLE. It's functional with those first 3 levels. dragon/dungeon magazine: ALMOST utter junk. Playtests and previews don't belong in a magazine. I'm sorry I still feel that way. If WOTC wants to PROPERLY playtest and preview something it should be for the masses, as the MASSES are the ones buying your books. Giving only DDI subscribers access to playtests/previews is actually a very small portion of the D&D player base. Not to mention it feels like they are barely even trying on the magazines. I was a subscriber to dragon magazine for 3 years and I didn't regret it, I love every issue I have, I always find quite a few nice things in each one. The stuff they did was amazing. While this is INCREDIBLY lack luster. I find at the most 2-3 half-decent articles each month: (this issue has only 2 in dragon so far, the academy and familiar one. Yet last month I think had ONE article I liked and I can't even remember what it is). Dragon and dungeon used to have this nice sort of player/dm split. I don't want to see dm stuff in dragon, sorry. I loved how the old dragon magazine (bless you paizo) would be packed full of new character options. Feats, spells (or powers now), prestige classes (PP's, ED's) in so forth in seemingly every issue. Give back dragon/dungeon to paizo, they simply just did it 1000x better than you. Not to mention im a print fan over pdf. And if you wanna know how I actually seen these. Well it pays to have a buddy that has a full year subscription and he lives about 3-4 blocks away from me here in town. One day should they get their visualizer and the virtual dungeon table thing running, I might actually drop some cash. Until then it will be a LONG time before I give wotc money for anything digital.
#48 Dane_McArdy Apr 18, 2009 6:08:32	Boy oh boy... I should start a business with their business model :3 i'll make a killing. Advertise so much and give so little and once a year maybe say something about future developments. Loyalists will stick around and I'll be rich beyond my wildest dreams of avarice. But yeah, i haven't given them one red cent concerning ddi from me :D and they won't get one until they start pumping out the good stuff... Then clearly, their business model isn't working.
#49 jgerman Apr 19, 2009 8:27:09	It's time to get over the VTT from WotC not being available, particularly since it's unlikely to ever get released. WotC has displayed a (historical) ineptness in the digital realm, it's time to move on. It's especially confusing that people get so worked up when other options exist, better options and not just through the virtue of existence. What exactly is it about WotCs proposed Game Table that makes you so eager to get it? If it had been released what exactly makes it better than something like MapTool? What can, well... could not can, you do with it that you can't currently do with existing tools?
#50 eleran Apr 19, 2009 8:30:42	It's time to get over the VTT from WotC not being available, particularly since it's unlikely to ever get released. WotC has displayed a (historical) ineptness in the digital realm, it's time to move on. It's especially confusing that people get so worked up when other options exist, better options and not just through the virtue of existence. What exactly is it about WotCs proposed Game Table that makes you so eager to get it? If it had been released what exactly makes it better than something like MapTool? What can, well... could not can, you do with it that you can't currently do with existing tools? They don't know. All they know is they have something they can ***** about, and that seems to be all that half the world wants any more is somethign they can ***** about. If the VTT had come in underpriced and ahead of schedule they likely would have squealed that it was rushed out the door too soon or any of a myriad of other things they feel entitled to ***** about that particular week. It is just my opinion of course, but I think a lot of people around here could spend less time *****ing and a lot more time playing the game and things would be a lot better.
#51 wavecutter Apr 19, 2009 8:37:45	Let's try not to derail the thread. This thread is about disappointment not happy fun time. If you want to make a thread about anything else, do it but don't derail this one.
#52 wavecutter Apr 19, 2009 8:39:25	And it seems when I make any post that is unflattering to WotC it gets deleted.
#53 eleran Apr 19, 2009 8:47:10	Let's try not to derail the thread. This thread is about disappointment not happy fun time. If you want to make a thread about anything else, do it but don't derail this one. When did u become thread marshall?
#54 wavecutter Apr 19, 2009 11:49:42	Thread derailment falls under the CoC rule #6. Do not disrupt chat, forums, blog comments or other communication channels. For example: Make off-topic posts Now back to the topic at hand. I think WotC will never release the Visualizer or the VTT. I think the videos were just pre-renders designed to generate hype so they could sell more books and I for one am very disappointed.
#55 dazmiuth Apr 19, 2009 12:03:00	It's time to get over the VTT from WotC not being available, particularly since it's unlikely to ever get released. WotC has displayed a (historical) ineptness in the digital realm, it's time to move on. It's especially confusing that people get so worked up when other options exist, better options and not just through the virtue of existence. What exactly is it about WotCs proposed Game Table that makes you so eager to get it? If it had been released what exactly makes it better than something like MapTool? What can, well... could not can, you do with it that you can't currently do with existing tools? They don't know. All they know is they have something they can ***** about, and that seems to be all that half the world wants any more is somethign they can ***** about. If the VTT had come in underpriced and ahead of schedule they likely would have squealed that it was rushed out the door too soon or any of a myriad of other things they feel entitled to ***** about that particular week. It is just my opinion of course, but I think a lot of people around here could spend less time *****ing and a lot more time playing the game and things would be a lot better. I guess you didn't pay any attention at all to the youtube demo videos I posted above. I haven't seen ANY altenate VTT out there where you can create your own 3-D virtual mini's and then play on a 3-D table-top that has the 4th edition rules integrated into the system. It's funny because those of you who voice support for WotC can come on the boards and refer to us as "those people" who will just "find something we can @%^*# about" and the mods let it go. While anyone who has a problem that WotC advertised vaporware that led to may people spending a lot of money gets censored.
#56 wavecutter Apr 19, 2009 12:03:20	Not only am I disappointed in the handling of the VTT but the actions of the moderators as well. It seems thread derailment is OK with them but unflattering posts aren't.
#57 jgerman Apr 19, 2009 12:53:56	I guess you didn't pay any attention at all to the youtube demo videos I posted above. I haven't seen ANY altenate VTT out there where you can create your own 3-D virtual mini's and then play on a 3-D table-top that has the 4th edition rules integrated into the system. It's funny because those of you who voice support for WotC can come on the boards and refer to us as "those people" who will just "find something we can @%^*# about" and the mods let it go. While anyone who has a problem that WotC advertised vaporware that led to may people spending a lot of money gets censored. Actually I did pay attention to them. *Some* minis will be 3D on the board. The map itself is not really 3D, it's more like 2.5d. And the little bit of 3D you're going to get is going to severely limit the flexibility of the tool. The system won't adjudicate rules at all, most current VTTs allow you to 'integrate' rules to the same extent that you will be able to with the Game Table (though I suspect we'll never know). There isn't even an official feature list for this Game Table. So yes it's foolish to continually cry over the fact that it's not out. Particularly when those alternatives are, and I'd put money on this, better that what WotC will produce... if it ever materializes, which is highly unlikely. ******* and moaning about WotC's failure to deliver on those promises had it's place ten months ago. Move on.
#58 wavecutter Apr 19, 2009 13:02:09	******* and moaning about WotC's failure to deliver on those promises had it's place ten months ago. Move on. I think you should find another thread to post in. If you do not like this thread please do not try to get us to "stop". I find your post and others like it "disruptive" to this thread.
#59 jgerman Apr 19, 2009 13:27:00	I think you should find another thread to post in. If you do not like this thread please do not try to get us to "stop". I find your post and others like it "disruptive" to this thread. That's unfortunate for you. I have valid comments to make on the topic and I will continue to do so until I no longer wish to. Disruptiveness doesn't equate to "stuff wavecutter doesn't like to hear" no matter how much you might wish it did.
#60 wavecutter Apr 19, 2009 13:32:02	That's unfortunate for you. I have valid comments to make on the topic and I will continue to do so until I no longer wish to. Disruptiveness doesn't equate to "stuff wavecutter doesn't like to hear" no matter how much you might wish it did. Well, you are violating the CoC by making off topic posts. No matter how much you wish it otherwise. Do not disrupt chat, forums, blog comments or other communication channels. For example: Spam through repeated posts, or off-topic content by word or intent to forums or comments (scrolling, flooding, polling, or by "bumping" a post more than once in 48 hours) Make off-topic posts or chat or trades in the wrong forums or chat rooms (casual chat or roleplay in rooms or forums not designated for these types of activities) Advertise trades or sales outside of the designated areas
#61 jgerman Apr 19, 2009 13:35:23	Well, you are violating the CoC by making off topic posts. No matter how much you wish it otherwise. No. You are by continually whining about posts that are, in fact, on topic. I'm not going to argue with you, you're not the arbiter of the forums. You don't get to decide these things. The mods here actually do a fairly good job, I'm sure they don't need your help. That's the last I'll be discussing the issue unless you have something to comment on about my on topic posts.
#62 wavecutter Apr 19, 2009 13:37:27	That's the last I'll be discussing the issue unless you have something to comment on about my on topic posts. Seeing how you don't have any "on-topic" posts, that would be quite difficult. Good job derailing the thread though.
#63 PinkRose Apr 19, 2009 14:36:25	On topic: I am disappointed. I got back into D&D a year and a half ago, For the express purpose of being able to play D&D with my brother and sister, whom I have moved away from. I have, however, found an alternative, MapTools. And I doubt that I would buy the WotC VTT if it came out tomorrow. Off Topic: I am not disappointed in the products they have put out. I love the Character Builder. The best digital product for D&D to date. ( Maybe slightly behind Baldur's Gate) I think $5 a month for the magazines AND the compendium is a steal. I would not give those up. I wish they had followed through on their promise, but I'm happy with what I'm paying for. Which BTW, I was paying for pdfs. Now I am not buying any books until they start selling them as pdfs again. Sell none - make no money. Sell some - make some money. You choose.
#64 ahelmer Apr 19, 2009 16:36:51	You can certainly think that if you so wish, but those who are paying for what is out now seem to think that what they're paying for is a good deal. I know I do anyways, but it still doesn't keep me from being disappointed about the VTT, CharVisualizer, and Dungeon Builder not being out. Still, I am hoping that it will be here soon and have high hopes for the 1 year anniversary of 4e. I agree totally. I can not play the game, but still enjoy keeping up to date. the $5 a month I paid for was well worth getting the character builder and the magazine updates. The builder is very high quality and they really seem dedicated to supporting it. That being said, am dissapointed that the other tools, especially the gametable, are not out. However, if they are going to be of the same quality, its worth the wait. I refuse to use the other VTTs out there for several reasons and I hope WOTC hasnt abandoned the GameTable.
#65 nexusvalhees Apr 19, 2009 22:40:21	Actually I did pay attention to them. *Some* minis will be 3D on the board. The map itself is not really 3D, it's more like 2.5d. And the little bit of 3D you're going to get is going to severely limit the flexibility of the tool. The system won't adjudicate rules at all, most current VTTs allow you to 'integrate' rules to the same extent that you will be able to with the Game Table (though I suspect we'll never know). There isn't even an official feature list for this Game Table. So yes it's foolish to continually cry over the fact that it's not out. Particularly when those alternatives are, and I'd put money on this, better that what WotC will produce... if it ever materializes, which is highly unlikely. ******* and moaning about WotC's failure to deliver on those promises had it's place ten months ago. Move on. And whining about whining should have been done with long before. I've looked at your better game tables and yes they're better because they exist I'm not looking to build features into the tool I'm using I'm looking for them to be there. I'm lazy by nature that is why I buy games instead of just making my own. I know the table won't actually adjudicate the rules and play itself but I'm sure it would have some of the system integrated.(Well in a world where I actually still believed it would come out.) I'm ****** about it and will continue to be so until the point where I actually see WoTC change the way they communicate. (I'm doubtful of this as well.) But hey we can all dream right.
#66 WolfStar76 Apr 20, 2009 7:54:30	I think WotC will never release the Visualizer or the VTT. I think the videos were just pre-renders designed to generate hype so they could sell more books and I for one am very disappointed. I've had a hands-on demo of the Game Table at GenCon last summer. It wasn't just a video.
#67 wavecutter Apr 20, 2009 15:12:17	I've had a hands-on demo of the Game Table at GenCon last summer. It wasn't just a video. Oh, hey. That's pretty cool. How long did you get to play with it?
#68 seTiny Apr 20, 2009 15:21:13	Oh, hey. That's pretty cool. How long did you get to play with it? Here's his review: I'm a little addled, and I'm typing this from my car ride home (love my cellular modem!), so I may make mistakes or miss items here, but feel free to ask me questions in the D&D Insider forums, and I'll do my best to answer things. Here are some of the highlights that jumped out at me: First and foremost, I'm pretty sure Didier told me that the Game Table is currently feature complete (at least for launch features). There are some bugs they're well aware of (like "Conditions" crashing the program), as well as some UI changes they'd like to make to simplify things. However, this is, to me, exciting news, as I would think this means we're moving ever-closer to Beta tests. The Game Table DOES allow a GM to import any JPG (and I'd assume other image formats) into the program and slap a grid on top. The DM can control what the player's see in a variety of ways. On the "overland" map he showed me (a JPG image of the map leading to Kobold Hall from the back of the DMG) He was able to hide the entire map, while leaving the grid on. With that, players would see a black grid and nothing more. From there he was able to move a light-source around, and what was "lit" was revealed to the players. Adding a player token (2D or 3D) and attaching a light allowed that light to move with the player. Moving into Kobold Hall - the entryway was lit, however the light source didn't bleed into the next room, because the DM hadn't revealed it yet. This allows a DM to conceal hidden passageways, or simply not reveal what's on the other side of a door until the players are ready to proceed. Once the next room was revealed, the player view and the DM view still differed. The DM had chosen to reveal all but a couple kobolds. The ones that were hiding were still visible to the DM, but not the layers. Very nice touch. Moving on to Inititive. There's a nice combat tracker in place, the DM may, at his discretion hit a single button and roll initiative for all the characters (PC or NPC) in a single click. Of course most of us would rather roll our own initiative. No problem, as the players roll their Initiative, the DM can drag their results) which show next to their portrait along the left side of the screen) into the initiative box. Once everyone has their score, it's one click to sort eveything in initiative order. Player's (or NPCs) often know the value of Readying an action or Holding an action. You can click a value in the Combat/Initiative tracker to indicate a ready or held action. When the player then DOES take their action you drop them onto the tracker, and it will either set them ahead or behind the current person's turn accordingly. Tracking damage is simple as well. Just take the result of the damage roll (drag from the portrait of the attacker) and drop onto the minus sign next to the HP of the defender. The program instantly does the math. (and if something is healed, drag the results onto the plus sign accordingly). Characters also get a detail window where things like Temp Hit Points can be tracked and maintained separately. I didn't think to ask, but I would assume that dropping damage onto a character with Temp HPs would deduct from the Temp Pool first. Traps. Got a false floor (for a pit trap, or a quick acid bath), great! Drop the tile onto the map as you're building it (in the Dungeon Builder) and set it to be "flipped" making the floor look flush and normal. The caveat here is that now you, the GM have to remember where that pit trap is. No problem. With a quick set of keystrokes, Didier produced a "note" that only the DM can see, and placed it right on the tiles hiding the trap. Now the DM has a (hidden) visual reminder that there's a trap, and where it's located. 3D minis. A lot of people have had a lot to say on 3D minis and the microtransactions that are (last I heard officially) that are going to come with them. One of the issues I've had with that is that of being able (or unable) to clone the 3D minis. While final pricing and options are still being decided, it looks like in this arena, there's been an update (at least since DDXP). The game table will support cloning of minis (and tokens, and notes, and tiles, and. . . really it looked like anything you can manipulate). However, you may still have a limit of how many 3D minis are in your table's "pool". For example, let's say you buy Irontooth (or a pack containing him (see adventure H1 - Keep on the Shadowfeel if you don't know Irontooth). and you have access to two copies of that 3D mini. You're running a combat that needs four tough-looking Goblins. No problem. Drop Irontooth on the table, clone him. The first two figs will be 3D, the 2nd two will be 2D. Now, this may or may not be good news depending on your opinion of 3D minis and their costs - but the advantage I see is that if they do stick with the currently proposed pricing structure, I don't have to go digging around for 3D copies of a figure, then find the 2D version if I run out. The software just hadnles it for me. Starting a game! I almost forgot about this, it's a pretty spiffy feature too. There WILL be a game lobby. So, it's Friday, you're getting ready to play Keep on the Shadowfell. So, you setup a table. You don't want just anyone getting in on your game, since you've been playing with your friends Alice, Bob, Clark, and Denise (players A, B, C, and D respectively). So, when you create the table you create seats for how many players you want (don't know what/if the upward limit is). So, you setup four seats, and lock them each with their own password (the Game Table uses a different term, but I don't recall it). I'd simply use the name of the player, or the name of their character for simplicity. As you're waiting, you get a call from Bob. He can't make it tonight. Now your party is without their paladin, and you need a new Defender. No problem. Open up the seat by removing Bob's password. You don't want just anyone sitting in, however, since you're down a role, so you can filter the seat to only accept Defenders. Now you just sit back and wait for someone to join the lobby. While you're waiting the GM can go in and check the map, make any last-minute changes he wants, etc - without allowing the players into the map (wouldn't want to spoil the surprises!). Once everything is set with the map, and a new Defender is found that's agreeable, the DM can then allow players into the game itself and the real fun can begin. (I assume that the VoIP (voice-chat) application will let the GM be tweaking the map and things while still talking to the players in the lobby). I also presume the GM has the option to boot people out of the lobby if they're simply not a match (because, no matter where you go there's always a griefer on the Internet). That pretty well covers the highlights of the game table as I recall. There were some other neat features (the ability for the GM to create fixed numbers to assign Gold, XP, etc). Movement being something that players can plot out (to avoid those pesky Opportunity Attacks) and the like as well, but I'm sure others will talk about those. . . or say things in the forums to jog my memory.
#82 Dane_McArdy May 04, 2009 9:16:15	An in-depth explanation on why you are disappointed that the GT has been delayed, and how you were looking forward to it will be much more effective than an insult-ridden post accusing WotC of everything that has gone wrong since the fall of man. I totally knew WoTC was behind that whole apple thing. The DC for that skill check was way out of wack. We were totally railroaded into biting it! That's totally cheating!
#83 lomerell_dawnbringer May 04, 2009 11:43:22	You can certainly think that if you so wish, but those who are paying for what is out now seem to think that what they're paying for is a good deal. I am paying for it now. I do not consider it to be a good deal. ("Then why buy it?") I can't get the same content anywhere else. The fact that I consider it overpriced for the value does not enable me to get it for less elsewhere.
#84 Myztek May 04, 2009 15:24:17	...I can't get the same content anywhere else. The fact that I consider it overpriced for the value does not enable me to get it for less elsewhere. What do you think overpriced means? A high price? A price so high the product can't be sold? A price so high it is detrimental to the profits of the seller? There are lots of definitions. People are buying insider. They are generating a lot of revenue with it. How much? I don't know, but I know a lot of subscribers that signed up right away, and more that joined ranks later on. We could argue all day about whether we THINK WotC would be better off with a lower price point, or with different content, but outsiders like us really don't know for sure what WotCs' cost and revenue streuctures surroung DDI are. I am EXTREMELY disappointed that the virtual tabletop is not here - I planned to start a campaign with it last year, and have just decided to go forward with another suite of free online tools. I'll be unlikely to convert to the WotC tool when it is released once I am established on another tool, so I think they likely lost my business with regard to that tool. I considered it to be one of the most exciting aspects of 4E, and the failure to deliver was heartbreaking to me. It is the most significant (game related) disappointment for me in the 4E era.
#85 johnwright May 09, 2009 9:02:38	Have you checked out other virtual tabletop programs, like maptools or fantasy grounds? I've actually not looked at any recently. I'd originally begun looking at one or two when I returned from Iraq but I thought the D&DI VGT was coming out so didn't look too deeply. Then it just became general disgust with WotC (which of course doesn't resolve my gaming addiction).
#86 johnwright May 09, 2009 9:05:45	I dont quite get this. Have you forgotten that you can play 4th edtion *in person* with someone, not just over the web? Dont get me wrong, I was disappointed when the VTT got delayed as well, but if you can find people to play 3.5 with why can you find people to play 4th with? All other things being equal, I find the lack of a VTT a strange reason not to play the game, unless you are stuck in a research station somewhere on an iceberg and cant find anyone to game with. It sounds like you *like* dnd, but you will not play because you can't play it over the computer. You couldn't play 3.5 over the computer either, and you were buying the game books then. My gaming group formed back in the 90's and we played in person until I went in the Army. Now we play once a year or two when I come through on leave and the hope had been to use the VTT to keep the group together.