Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 krownhunter07 Jan 04, 2010 18:03:56	Hello and sorry in advance if this is rehashing things, but I'd really like to know if the Character Visualizer and Tabletop is still in the works and, if so, when they might be out. I've been subscribed to DDI since it started in hopes of having them. Just looking for an update and thank you.
#2 celloshane Jan 04, 2010 18:56:00	The short answer is no, at least not in the forseeable future. The long answer is: We were told some time ago that the CV and VT have been placed on the back burner and might not ever be completed.  The DDI development team is only working on one tool at a time, from start to complete finish.  From what we've been told there is no future planning beyond the current project.  The current project is the multi-piece Adventure Tools, specifically the Monster Builder.  It's still in (functional) Beta, and we haven't been told what the other pieces of the Adventure Tools will be.  There's been no indication of whether or not the dev team will move on to the CV or VT or a different project entirely when the Adventure Tools are done.  Since estimates for the Adventure Tools completion vary widely, it could be anywhere from 6 months to 3 years before the current project is finished.  Even if the following project were the CV or VT you'd have to add a healthy amount of development time for that project. So, if you're currently subscribed solely for the hope that the CV and VT will be released you'll need to decide how long you're willing to wait (and accept that they may not be released at all).  Personally I would liken that to making a no-strings donation to my local police department and hoping they use the money to help fund extra patrols for my neighborhood, while knowing full well that they could just as easily use the money to purchase a new coffee maker.  Since everyone subscribes for different reasons though, you may have other factors to consider.
#3 Jorunhast Jan 12, 2010 6:02:41	Hasn't it been 2 years since they announced the development of these tools?  Did they just give up?
#4 asmodeuslore Jan 12, 2010 7:55:25	They didn't give up.  They just bit off more than they could chew.  Wizards of the Coast is not a software company, so this was pretty much completely new territory for them.  In the end, they made promises that they couldn't keep, and worse still, they have apparently failed to let folks know that the plans have changed. The current plan, from what I've heard, is that they are not canceled, but don't expect them anytime soon. In the meantime, alternatives are available for Virtual Table Tops.  I like to suggest MapTool (www.rptools.net). Other folks say Fantasy Grounds is good, but its not free like MapTool.
#5 mudbunny Jan 12, 2010 8:48:26	Hello and sorry in advance if this is rehashing things, but I'd really like to know if the Character Visualizer and Tabletop is still in the works and, if so, when they might be out. I've been subscribed to DDI since it started in hopes of having them. Just looking for an update and thank you. The answer by Celloshane, which I have included below, is a nice summation of the situation. I am working hard on getting information out of the DDI dev team, but the release of information is tightly controlled. The short answer is no, at least not in the forseeable future. The long answer is: We were told some time ago that the CV and VT have been placed on the back burner and might not ever be completed.  The DDI development team is only working on one tool at a time, from start to complete finish.  From what we've been told there is no future planning beyond the current project.  The current project is the multi-piece Adventure Tools, specifically the Monster Builder.  It's still in (functional) Beta, and we haven't been told what the other pieces of the Adventure Tools will be.  There's been no indication of whether or not the dev team will move on to the CV or VT or a different project entirely when the Adventure Tools are done.  Since estimates for the Adventure Tools completion vary widely, it could be anywhere from 6 months to 3 years before the current project is finished.  Even if the following project were the CV or VT you'd have to add a healthy amount of development time for that project. They didn't give up.  They just bit off more than they could chew.  Wizards of the Coast is not a software company, so this was pretty much completely new territory for them.  In the end, they made promises that they couldn't keep, and worse still, they have apparently failed to let folks know that the plans have changed. The made several annoucements about the change in plans and direction over 18 months ago. It is unrealistic to expect WotC to, every several months, post an announcement saying that they have changed the way that the software is going to be released. At some point in time, the user is responsible for finding out himself, as the OP has in this thread.
#6 asmodeuslore Jan 12, 2010 9:07:12	They didn't give up.  They just bit off more than they could chew.  Wizards of the Coast is not a software company, so this was pretty much completely new territory for them.  In the end, they made promises that they couldn't keep, and worse still, they have apparently failed to let folks know that the plans have changed. The made several annoucements about the change in plans and direction over 18 months ago. It is unrealistic to expect WotC to, every several months, post an announcement saying that they have changed the way that the software is going to be released. At some point in time, the user is responsible for finding out himself, as the OP has in this thread. Yes, they did post the announcement, but something is wrong in the way they did it, because it did not reach the eyes/ears of everyone who heard about the game table, and it is not reaching the people who come to the site looking for information about it.
#7 Jorunhast Jan 12, 2010 9:47:57	Yes, they did post the announcement, but something is wrong in the way they did it, because it did not reach the eyes/ears of everyone who heard about the game table, and it is not reaching the people who come to the site looking for information about it. It's true that I'm new to the site.  I'm still looking around for things. I guess I'm just surprised that it's been over two years from the original announcement (which was in a youtube movie that I think was debuted at a gaming convention), and that it's still not anywhere near completion.  That really is telling that something odd is going on, not just a case of "oops, bit off more than we could chew."  Or that they outright lied to people in order to get signups. And I realize they're not a software company, but they did choose to enter the software game, so to speak, with their announcement.  By doing so, they were telling people "we're hot, we're dialing it up, we're in the game!" But what it really tells me is that I shouldn't trust anything they announce, and that I should be wary of DDI.  It's not just a 2-3 month delay, after all.  It's over two years.  Shameful for a business, IMO.
#8 mudbunny Jan 12, 2010 9:59:01	Yes, they did post the announcement, but something is wrong in the way they did it, because it did not reach the eyes/ears of everyone who heard about the game table, and it is not reaching the people who come to the site looking for information about it. It is not the responsability of WotC to make sure that every single gamer out there who might have heard about the game table and/or character visualizer knows about it. It is the responsability for WotC to make a reasonable effort to let as many people know as possible. WotC made that effort. They announced it here on the boards and in a DDI article (when they were free to view) in the months preceding the originally scheduled release date. At this point in time, it is just as easy, and much more efficient, for WotC to allow the community to do the work for it. Any time this is asked on the boards, the explanation is also brought up as to what happened and the change in directions. In other words, the message is getting out there. If people are interested in finding out what happened, they will come to the WotC boards and ask. That is what these boards are here for. In addition, a cursory Google Search on "WotC Game Table" would also provide a fair amount of info on the current state of development of the game table. In other words, it is my opinion that no, there was not "something wrong in the way that they did it".
#9 mudbunny Jan 12, 2010 10:11:49	It's true that I'm new to the site.  I'm still looking around for things. I guess I'm just surprised that it's been over two years from the original announcement (which was in a youtube movie that I think was debuted at a gaming convention), and that it's still not anywhere near completion.  That really is telling that something odd is going on, not just a case of "oops, bit off more than we could chew."  Or that they outright lied to people in order to get signups. The signups page makes it extremely clear what you are getting when you subscribe. As for what happened, from my undestanding, they originally contracted to an outside company to do the work, but ended up cancellingt he contract and bringing it in-house, where they had to scrap all of the previous code that had been developed and start again, from scratch. And I realize they're not a software company, but they did choose to enter the software game, so to speak, with their announcement.  By doing so, they were telling people "we're hot, we're dialing it up, we're in the game!" And most people look at the Character Builder and the Monster Builder and say "yeah, they are in the game, and those applications kick ass." WotC has made the decision to put out one tool at a time. They are aware that it may cst them customers. However, in their analysis, they are better served in the long run by focussing on the one tool at a time and ensuring that the tools released are of high quality. They are *highly* unlikely to deviate from it anytime soon. If, and this is a very big if, they were to change that, it would not be until they have had a couple of years of data on the sustainability of DDI subscriptions. How many renew. Average length of subscription. Effect of holidays, summer vacation, school starting, effect of splatbooks on subscriptions, Effect of releases of tools, etc.
#10 WolfStar76 Jan 12, 2010 10:28:05	Yes, they did post the announcement, but something is wrong in the way they did it, because it did not reach the eyes/ears of everyone who heard about the game table, and it is not reaching the people who come to the site looking for information about it. It is not the responsability of WotC to make sure that every single gamer out there who might have heard about the game table and/or character visualizer knows about it. It is the responsability for WotC to make a reasonable effort to let as many people know as possible. WotC made that effort. They announced it here on the boards and in a DDI article (when they were free to view) in the months preceding the originally scheduled release date. At this point in time, it is just as easy, and much more efficient, for WotC to allow the community to do the work for it. Any time this is asked on the boards, the explanation is also brought up as to what happened and the change in directions. In other words, the message is getting out there. If people are interested in finding out what happened, they will come to the WotC boards and ask. That is what these boards are here for. In addition, a cursory Google Search on "WotC Game Table" would also provide a fair amount of info on the current state of development of the game table. In other words, it is my opinion that no, there was not "something wrong in the way that they did it". To expand on this a little. Many players at my FLGS  hadn't heard about the Game Table, even if they'd heard about 4E - until I told them about it myself.  I spread news of the Game Table via word-of-mouth.  Hardcore AND casual players learned about the GT because of me. When DDI changed to releasing one piece of software at a time, I communicated it - but not with the vigor and gusto I talked about the GT.  A couple months later I was surprised to hear one of the more "hardcore" players asking me for updates about the Game Table.  He hadn't yet heard about the "one piece of software at a time" news yet. Was that a failing of WotC?  No.  These are people who aren't/weren't going to go out and seek information on their own - their only news source for news good or ill, was word-of-mouth.  I'm sure there are casual players at my FLGS who I told about the GT, but who I haven't told about it's delay. That isn't a failing of WotC - that's just the nature of how news of this sort spreads.
#11 rhianni32 Jan 12, 2010 11:37:25	While it isnt wotc job to let every single last gamer know about it they could throw those of us talking to their friends about it a bone. I am like Wolfstar76 in that originally I talked about the game table and spread my excitement to other gamers.  Now when people ask me about the status of the online tools 2 years later I tell them I dont know. Wotc isnt saying anything, wont give a tentative release date, and wont even tell us what they are working on. Duke Nukem Forever jokes are starting to be made and I cant really disuade them.
#12 Jorunhast Jan 12, 2010 11:54:13	While it isnt wotc job to let every single last gamer know about it they could throw those of us talking to their friends about it a bone. I am like Wolfstar76 in that originally I talked about the game table and spread my excitement to other gamers.  Now when people ask me about the status of the online tools 2 years later I tell them I dont know. Wotc isnt saying anything, wont give a tentative release date, and wont even tell us what they are working on. Duke Nukem Forever jokes are starting to be made and I cant really disuade them. Yeah, it's an awfully long time, given that WotC made a video "preview" and showed it at GenCon (I think?) over 2 years ago.  And posted that video to youtube.  It just seems like they had a strong commitment back then, and somewhere along the line it went from "The Big Project" to "maybe in another 2 years, but who knows?" As someone "new" (in the sense of coming back to D&D after many years), seeing stuff like this on the WotC forums - along with complaints of reduced size articles in Dragon and "fewer than promised" adventures in Dungeon, it's not reassuring at all. And mudbunny, I think the preview of the character creator is pretty nice, but it's not all that different than what some fan sites have developed.  I just don't know if the current state of affairs really is worth signing up for DDI personally. And - no offense meant to anyone, just saying how I see it.
#13 mudbunny Jan 12, 2010 12:11:25	And mudbunny, I think the preview of the character creator is pretty nice, but it's not all that different than what some fan sites have developed.  I just don't know if the current state of affairs really is worth signing up for DDI personally. And - no offense meant to anyone, just saying how I see it. No offense taken. It is up to each person to determine whether or not DDI is worth it to them. And that deciswion involves a lot of subjective value judgements and personal opinions. What I find cool you may find boring. What you find cool, I may find as exciting as the extraction of a wisdom tooth without anaesthesia. Witht he character builder, I haven't needed to go to fan sites to see what is available. Do you have any favourite sites that you have which provide a good character creator?
#14 Jorunhast Jan 12, 2010 12:31:00	And mudbunny, I think the preview of the character creator is pretty nice, but it's not all that different than what some fan sites have developed.  I just don't know if the current state of affairs really is worth signing up for DDI personally. And - no offense meant to anyone, just saying how I see it. No offense taken. It is up to each person to determine whether or not DDI is worth it to them. And that deciswion involves a lot of subjective value judgements and personal opinions. What I find cool you may find boring. What you find cool, I may find as exciting as the extraction of a wisdom tooth without anaesthesia. Witht he character builder, I haven't needed to go to fan sites to see what is available. Do you have any favourite sites that you have which provide a good character creator? Well, the main one that looked good was this one, but it's for the previous edition.  He has a link for a new edition one on the top of the page.  Seemed pretty thorough, but I don't have hardly anything from 3rd edition to judge well: www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm I can't say that I have any favorite sites yet, as I really am just coming back to D&D after maybe 15 years or so.  I do like the gaming model for 4E generally (better wizard class, better magic system overall, among other things), and I did try out the preview character builder from the main site.  It's pretty good, and generates a nice character sheet.
#15 philthe1 Jan 12, 2010 14:03:11	I decided not to renew my DDI membership as the tabletop was one of the main reasons for me doing so....just saying. the mags can be fun and char builder is cool, but that was only part of what I was hoping to get from DDI.
#16 dmjbone Jan 19, 2010 4:09:16	I decided not to renew my DDI membership as the tabletop was one of the main reasons for me doing so....just saying. the mags can be fun and char builder is cool, but that was only part of what I was hoping to get from DDI. Do yourself a favor and check out Fantasy Grounds www.fantasygrounds.com Works great and soon will have 4e ruleset built in (right now you have to manually install it.) It's not free but it's not a subscription to use either-and you get big discounts for buying as a 'bundle' (Full version for DM and lite version for your players).