Now that D&D4E is officially over, and Insider is no longer being supported at all, why exactly are we paying the same price that we paid for it when there were monthly updates?
Wizard's current stance apparently seems to be to keep charging us full price for the D&D 4e Insider Tools, until such time that it no longer becomes worthwhile for them to do so based on this twitter conversation (https://twitter.com/Tobold_Blogger/status/470106242078498816). What does that even mean? How much does it cost for the servers to host the insider tools, how many people need to be subscribed to be "enough"?
So we're supposed to continue paying the same price we've been paying this entire time, remaining at the whim of WotC as to whether or not the tools stay avaliable? My 3 month subscription is about to renew this Friday August 1st, but if more people than anticipated switch over to 5E and they decide to shut down the tool for good, I'm out of luck with the rest of my subscription time? I could go back to monthly, which would cost me more in the long term.
Although it seems like your mind is already made up, I really hope that you will change your mind and show some good will towards those of us who are sticking with D&D4E by doing one of a couple things:
1. Update the old D&D insider tools to include all current content, and make them avaliable either for free or as a 1 time purchase.
2. Keep the current online Insider tools, but either reduce the price, add a one time purchase, or make them free to use. I doubt this will happen because of what Mike said about needing enough subscribers to keep the tools.
I would prefer the first option, so that I have some guarantee about being able to use them in the future, and not just the arbitrary measurement of needing "enough subscribers".
Please don't screw the people who have supported you throughout the lifespan of D&D4e.
Edit:
You know, I didn't expect an answer, but I really was hoping for one. Oh well. Also, in case you're wondering, I do have D&D Insider, it just never gave me the forum badge.
Absolutely - I think the community deserves an answer.
What is the future of 4e tools? is it to just remain the same until the software fails? At this point I am fairly dependent on the tools and if the system would be discontinued - well i probably would no longer be able to DM 4e.
On another note at least we have something in the works for 5e tools 
http://www.codenamemorningstar.com/
http://dnd.wizards.com/digital_tools?x=dnd/news/morningstar
I've asked the same question to Wizards customer service and they've been a week without answering. My guess is that they're still trying to figure that out.
Wizards has never shown great product acumen in this area. They've got an embedded subscriber base that is basically paying $15/month for cloud storage of a few megabytes of data. Depending on how they've structured their costs, it's possible that Insider could be profitable with only the subscribers that have forgotten to unsub.
They have two options:
- Roll Morningstar subs into their existing subs, and have everyone basically pay $15/month for D&D like they do for World of Warcraft or whatever
- Have Morningstar work on a different pricing model, and have everyone go through the sub/budgeting process a second time, possibly paying for both products.
Wizards could have given Insiders early access to D&D Next, could have tried to bulk up on subs by promoting the insider product with Dungeon & Dragon articles featuring playtest content, but they didn't. I'm guessing they consider D&D Insider a dead product, like an out-of-print book, that will realize decreasing incremental revenue over time, but doesn't warrant any further attention. One day subscriber numbers will decline to the point where their line will go from black to red, and they'll turn the servers off.
Wizards has always had a tin ear when it comes to tech products (choosing Silverlight for 4E tools, re-releasing Magic Apps on iOS every year). I'm always going to root for them, and this Morningstart stuff looks promising, so lets hope they get it right with 4th Edition.
What I wouldn't expect is any sort of open sourcing or revival of 4th Edition. The success of Pathfinder killed any chance at that.
It makes me sad, because if we think about 4E as a finished product, it would be great to go back through and polish the rough edges (e.g. putting keywords on rules that are duplicated in every power, cutting the trap powers, aligning similar mechanics e.g. BM hunter and sentinal druid). 4E D&D is a fundamentally different game than D&D Next, and I think there could be a place for both. Probably not a profitable one though, so I don't blame them for not doing it.
Given they didn't even give a half-hearted apology for cutting Dragon/Dungeon to loyal paying customers, I wouldn't expect much now.
I'm just dreading if they do close the 4e tools and don't offer any form of a substitue for it.
But I'll be really disappointed in the company itself, it shows how little they think of their players/fans if they just stop the 4e insider and provide nothing in its place. Kind of like saying thanks for following us and playing the game but if you don't accept the new insider we don't want you around.
It would be nice if they were to sell the 4e tools and database as a collection! I would certainly purchase a copy that I could instal on my computer/tablet. My insider subscription ends in a few days and I will not be renewing it until I see where they plan on going with all of this. Having no Dungeon/Dragon magazines has really left me feeling like I'm paying WotC for practically nothing.
I originally posted this in a 5e forum...but it seems better suited here.
I too hear promising things about the new online tools....but always via rumour or 3rd hand references. I remain optimistic.
However I am very disappointed with the limited communication from WOTC about the DDI subscriptions. Will they grant us access to the new tools (like 4e) or will it be a different business model? I've even submitted the question and haven't got a response aside from the automated acknowledgements and a survey to rate my "satisfaction"with the support.
right now my group has stopped playing 4e, we can't yet dig into 5e without full rule books. I don't see the point in a monthly fee. So I've opted to stop sending my $$$ to WOTC until they can justify it to me. I'm cancelling my DDI subscription after this post...I feel taken for granted.
Bronze-age
update...I can't seem to figure out how to cancel my account. Frustrating.
Bronze_Age wrote:
Lapsed subscriber here, but been getting the itch to use the old tools again. Seems kind of outrageous for WotC to still be charging full price for the Insider services when new content is no longer being produced. I get that they want people to make the switch over to supporting 5e, but just like in the previous switch from 3e, they seem to be repeating the same mistake of leaving old customers high and dry... and we all know how they lost out to Pathfinder because of that.
Now I'm fine with no longer getting new content. There's already probably more 4e content than I'll ever be able to get around to using as is. A full price subscription, however, for a service that is no longer updated or even supported seems entirely unreasonable. Basic server costs alone aren't that expensive, and so they could probably sustain reasonable profits at half or less the current price.
Regardless, I think I might still renew my subscription, at least temporarily. Seeing as nothing even operates in a preview mode anymore though, I'd at least like to confirm from a current subscriber that the tools are still all there and usable at the moment. Also, I've forgotten what my options are for saving characters created with the online builder. I know I can print them, but can I export them to a PDF document, or is it internet and paper only?
Same. I do not see why this is being charged anymore. For the cost of an MMO subscription I get the character builder (more or less) and the compendium (handy). Worth that much money..PER MONTH.
Heres the thing: most of what DDI promised was never delivered. What was delivered, I feel was pretty poor for most of its life span. No more Dragon and Dungeon. Other tools were scrapped enitrely. Why is this costing anyone anything?
A 'free' version of these tools should exist; Paizo has basically EVERYTHING posted up on their SRD, so there is nothing in the compendium I can see that should be charged for. The character builder? The data cannot be significant, and if it is, they can lower the maximum characters per account down to 3 for 'free' accounts. I highly doubt they would get flooded with hundreads of characters per account to suddenly warrant data issues; there are many many services out there that offer free file storage that have no issues, and the audience right now for 4e is signifncantly tiny.
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I am a current Insider subscriber, and the tools are available. Character Builder still works as of tonight, didn't check the Compendium or encounter builder. Go to www.dndinsider.com, log in as usual and launch the appropriate tool. My characters are still available from the spring.
As for saving, I used a pdf software printer.
I'm trying to find the files and registry entries so I can load the original character builder on a new computer. Then I can keep 4e for at least a little while longer.
The tools may be still available, but the embedded links are broken. Any links in Charactor Builder to Dragon or Dungeon Magazine files are now broken. 404 errors across the board. so if functionality is now decreased, I expect prices to drop as well.
Speaking of the magazines. Since I went and decided to temporarily renew my lapsed subscription, I also decided to download the archives. One problem though. There seems to be a gap from issues 395-415 of Dragon where compiled download doesn't seem to be available. Is that really the case, or am I just blind and unable to find an obvious link?
I must also say, that while I appreciate having access to a fully updated character builder again, the online utility is woefully lacking in what would seem to be some rather basic features, especially when it comes to house rules. You can give a character extra feats and powers, but not skills or from outside a class's list (except indirectly though the skill training feat). Also, I'd think something as basic as custom backgrounds would have been a good idea, so that players don't have to dig through the exhaustive list just to find one with the right skill. Heck, would a very basic custom race feature have been so hard? Nothing complicated, just the ability to set stat score bonuses and pick from a list of preexisting traits that other races already have.
Even with the rules themselves, I'm disappointed to see how little content was added over my hiatus. Notably, Knights and slayers still only have their essential default weapon specializations plus staffs to choose from. Where's hammers for slayers, axes for knights, or spears and flails for both (not to mention that Slayers could make great archers with just a little tweaking). These are all Dragon articles I'd have expected to come out, but despite the big Essentials push that was going on around the time I tuned out, there seems to have been very little follow up.
Tharag_Bocc wrote:
Bomberg wrote:
AfaIK all articles from the magazines are represnted in the tools. The last update earlier this year would have implemented the remaining data. Whether articles you would have liked or expected did appear in Dragon, is a different qzuestion though, and one I can't answer.
WoTC is dead to me. The technology is there to have abdoned print entirely, switched to HTML 5 and all future D&D versions be fully ebook and DDI electronic based for easy updates. I despise Pathfinder as it's gotten crazier with splat books than AD&D2e and 3x got. 4E was actually far more crunchy realistic than any other version (see the ranged damage for example, a bow finally can do more than plink). Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e and DCC-RPG are my systems from now on. Fool me once WoTC shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
I'll be sticking to 4th edition, personally. With some backtracking to Pathfinder in place of 3.5. Having never played before 4th edition has made learning the older system much harder, especially when the other people interested have had zero experience with it either... and Paizo are REALLY vague.
This said, I do hope they create a purchasable CD/downloader for the Rules.Comp and Character creator. I'd much rather not have to use silverlite... and I don't see myself not paying upwards to £25 for the tools if they became avaliable in such a manner. ((roughly 40 dollars))
Bomberg wrote:
I just got charged for my annual subscription dor ddi. There was no notice sent to me that the billing was coming to give me a chance to cancel. I didn't even know it still existed. If it's on the new website, it sure isn't easy to find. Also, if they want us to switch to 5E, why not give us an easy link to ddi with some 5E material. I'm trying to stick with D&D, having played it for a long time but I really feel I've been ripped off. Has anyone else had this happen or know how to get a refund?
rrrsenal wrote:
[quote="Mommy_was_an_Orc"]
rrrsenal wrote:
On 11/6/14 when I "migrated" my account I lost access to the archive site. Customer service sent me an email telling me to clear my cache and cookies, which did not fix it. Now I am literally paying for nothing and have not gotten any further response from customer service.
For all the problems and imperfections with the website in general, it's the lack of support and comunication from wizards that really upsets me. I mean I did pay them for content already...
Unable to cancel my auto renew, links to try and talk to customer service are rather broken as well.
I really did love the set up of D&D insider and wish that they would continue it for 5th Ediition, the digital magazines alone are worth the cost of subscription but not if there is nothing new to view.