Jack Emmert, head of Cryptic, is certainly enthusiastic about this possibility:
Ten Ton Hammer: Might we see Cryptic undertaking MMOGs for some of the larger IPs that Atari owns? Maybe a D&D: Forgotten Realms, Dragon Ball Z, The Witcher or Alone in the Dark MMO or something like that?
There's nothing that Jack Emmert loves more than a good comic book.
Jack: Anything is possible! Nothing is set in stone, but those are definitely possibilities. Being part of Atari, it would be a matter of sitting down and strategically choosing what the best use of resources and technology are. But nothing is off the table.
Ten Ton Hammer: Is there anything that you’re personally excited about in the Atari IP line-up?
Jack: Oh yeah. Atari has – as you already mentioned – the D&D brand, which is one of my true loves. First on that list would be comic books, but second would be hobby games, among which D&D is one of. Obviously that would be absolutely phenomenal.
Number three would be giant monsters, but I’m not sure how that fits in.
ok.. well, I'm a Ebberon-don't-carer.
I always thought 3e would be bad for a platform which constantly demands balanace among classes. It helped that they had SO FEW classes/levels and it was VERY team-oriented. You tend to glance over balance issues when you generally rely on each other for survival.
D&DO tried to take a non MMO format and put it into one. Now we have all the people saying that 4ed is nothing more than an MMO on paper... well duh maybe that was the plan all along. Get hype and interest in 4ed then make an MMO on it.
Most people seem to want a balanced streamlined game that fun to play with friends. MMO or P&P, those goals are accomplished.
I would, personally, love to see another DnD MMO - but set in the Forgotten Realms this time - yes, I'm an Ebberon hater
ok.. well, I'm a Ebberon-don't-carer.
I'm an Eberron lover, but I hated DDO. I'd love a good D&D MMO.
I am a true lover of PnP, and I don't think it is possible to get PnP online. That said, don't try. Boulder's Gate was good, WoW is good, DDO is not.
That said, make a MMO, build in the D&D world, give us the classes, the cool new 4e powers (which would all go nice on a button bar with timers) and make it a MMO.
I'm an Eberron lover, but I hated DDO. I'd love a good D&D MMO.
I am a true lover of PnP, and I don't think it is possible to get PnP online. That said, don't try. Boulder's Gate was good, WoW is good, DDO is not.
That said, make a MMO, build in the D&D world, give us the classes, the cool new 4e powers (which would all go nice on a button bar with timers) and make it a MMO.
I disagree. While the MMO space is fun and interesting and very in-depth, it brings along a lot of gameplay baggage that does not translate well to the system's core design. I think 4e would be best served by a tactical, turn-based RPG ala Final Fantasy Tactics / Disgaea / Fire Emblem.
This way, you don't have to make any changes to the system. NWN had to make a sacrifice for space and speed issues to make it real time. While it did a lot of the powers and capabilities correctly, moving around something in combat was tedious unless you were good at dodging Attacks of Opportunity. DDO worked around it by making combat more interactive (active blocking, major plus if you actually did it...) and fixing the iterative swipes to give you more accuracy. While these worked for 3rd edition, 4e is completely different than 3.5.
Since 4e plays like a tactical game, make it one. If you do anything else, then 1/2 of the warlord's power list become impossible to implement. Honestly, how would you something simple like Knight's Move or Wolf Pack Tactics in a non-turn based system? You simply can't, which means game designers go off the reservation and try to create something entirely different in the scope of their mechanics. If you want another simple case, think about the power Thunderwave, and read this thread. The interpretation of push in the manners presented could never be possible in an real time game because selecting the destination point for any monsters within the blast would have to be predetermined by the game engine and not the player, thus limiting the effectiveness.
Don't get me wrong - I like MMOs, but 4e is not an MMO. It's a tactical game and should be represented as such. Doing something different would be a disservice to all the hard work put into 4e.
Don't get me wrong - I like MMOs, but 4e is not an MMO. It's a tactical game and should be represented as such. Doing something different would be a disservice to all the hard work put into 4e.
You said what I was trying to say, but properly. What I was getting at was, if you're going to make it into an MMO (not saying do it, but if you plan to) then make it a MMO, don't try to bastardize it like you did with DDO.
I'm actually totally cool with a turn by turn (please include my darn Wii on the list of consoles) and I enjoy the MMOs just as well, but I play D&D (PnP) for a reason, and will always prefer it.
However, if they do, for the sake of sanity, use the Forgotten Realms. I never understood why DDO used Eberron. Why take an MMO that people had been wanting for years and launch it with the gaming world that had just been released and had minimal interest in it at best. If you want to build a big game, then use your most popular game setting.
I'd love to see an Actual Roleplaying Game again. I guess I'll have to wait for the Holosuite to be invented.
Get hype and interest in 4ed then make an MMO on it.
And sacrifice the tabletop game in the meantime... yea, no thanks. Plenty of MMOs already, and the only thing that is going to kill WoW is old age, so might as well do what you already own well; the tabletop. Instead we got a tabletop RPG with MMO rules.
Their best bet in the MMO area is wait a couple of more years to let WoW age and get old, then come out with a conventional Forgotten Realms MMO with wide open areas and a huge game area to explore like Original EQ had at release and ditch the D&D rules and make MMO rules from scratch designed specifically for an MMO and only transfer things like classes, races and feat and spell names.
I don't see how people think 4e isn't good for an MMO. The entire system plays like it's based off an MMO. Certainly easier to use 4e for an MMO than 3.5e.
Oh absolutely. Powers in 4e are much easier to translate to the real time MMO space moreso than anything ever made in 3.5. But if you feel that the entire system plays like an MMO, you have not had your eyes opened to the true nature of the system.
The crunchy tactical bits have no possible presentation that is feasible in a real time game. Powers that force shifts or pulls or slides... You could have them but then the MMO nature comes into it and the mobs would just walk right back to you, negating all the usefulness.
Here's proof. You may flex your muscles as a video game designer here.
An Eladrin Melee Cleric needs to help out a Rogue on a daily attack versus the BBEG. The Cleric is 4 squares away from the enemy. The rogue is directly next to the Enemy.
In one round, I could use Fey Step and teleport into flanking without an OA and then use Righteous Brand and smack the guy, grant my attack bonus to the rogue and watch the fireworks. And if I missed the first time, I could use an Action point to try again.
If you can translate that to a real time environment with nearly 90% precision... then you could feasibly make an MMO out of this game. Barring some radical rethinking on the way we play MMOs, the only way this is possible is if you make sacrifices - and every single one makes it less D&D.
Oh absolutely. Powers in 4e are much easier to translate to the real time MMO space moreso than anything ever made in 3.5. But if you feel that the entire system plays like an MMO, you have not had your eyes opened to the true nature of the system.
The crunchy tactical bits have no possible presentation that is feasible in a real time game. Powers that force shifts or pulls or slides... You could have them but then the MMO nature comes into it and the mobs would just walk right back to you, negating all the usefulness.
Here's proof. You may flex your muscles as a video game designer here.
An Eladrin Melee Cleric needs to help out a Rogue on a daily attack versus the BBEG. The Cleric is 4 squares away from the enemy. The rogue is directly next to the Enemy.
In one round, I could use Fey Step and teleport into flanking without an OA and then use Righteous Brand and smack the guy, grant my attack bonus to the rogue and watch the fireworks. And if I missed the first time, I could use an Action point to try again.
If you can translate that to a real time environment with nearly 90% precision... then you could feasibly make an MMO out of this game. Barring some radical rethinking on the way we play MMOs, the only way this is possible is if you make sacrifices - and every single one makes it less D&D.
Not difficult at all. For the Fey Step, simply make it another ability. Hit the button on your toolbar and you move instantly to wherever you click with your mouse, within range. As for action points, it's just another button on your hotbar. As long as you have an action point, hit that and then whatever other move you want and you go immediately.
Not difficult at all. For the Fey Step, simply make it another ability. Hit the button on your toolbar and you move instantly to wherever you click with your mouse, within range. As for action points, it's just another button on your hotbar. As long as you have an action point, hit that and then whatever other move you want and you go immediately.
It may seem simple on the surface, but the logistics of a move is very difficult and only lends itself easily to a turn based application. Here's why...
So you'd start off and select the power from the hot bar and choose a location in 3D space. But your goal is a very specific spot. Now this isn't likely to be the easiest thing in the world to do since there are limitations on the viewport angle and your line of sight in the battle field. In most 3D games, due to the restriction that your mouse can only point in 2D space, choosing the point on the ground can be tedious and take a lot of care in choosing correctly. To this point, I present the case of using Flamestrike in WoW. I could never seem to get that to land in any meaningful area, especially if mobs were moving as much as they do in my 4e game. There may not be any walls or physical obstructions but depending upon the area, you may or may not be able to see the correct locale to port to in order to flank for the rogue without relocating yourself. But even if you could, there is still a finite amount of time that goes by for you to get your power and use it. In real time, speed is a factor as well as the likelihood you would miss the intended target. In a turn-based game, you'd have as much time as you need to find the exact spot you need.
Then you'd switch powers and have to have a system where you can target an enemy and siphon buffs off to an ally of your designation. Many MMOs do this already, so that is not a problem. The problem lies with that system as it already exists. You can easily set up your target ally, but you cannot easily switch in the heat of battle. In a real time game, you would be best served by making this choice before attempting such a maneuver. I can show this in one simple part. Since at the end of this sequence as the cleric, you still have a minor action left over. So if the Fighter was wounded before your trip to assist the Rogue, you still have time to use Healing Word before your turn is up. Making any modifications to this is generally clumsy, and time consuming. You're fiddling around while your rogue waits impatiently for your buff, and your fighter is hoping no really big hit lands before you patch him up. No such limitation in a turn-based game, because your move still hasn't ended yet.
Your action point solution does work though. I assume you are treating all powers as having some form of global cooldown, and these would negate it. But here I question if this would add to the game experience, making all powers on a global cooldown. One of the most enjoyable things I did in WoW as a mage was nuking, where I could throw all of my instant cast spells in a specific order to really punish something. You could never do this in your game. Sure, DDO had the global cooldown as well, but there was still a slew of spells that could be insta-cast, or you could use Quicken Spell and do the same thing at a large spell point cost.
I just see using 4e as an MMO basis as clumsy. It just wasn't built for it. But I really wish they would take some of the design ideas and put them into MMOs.
It was determined, based upon the current phrasing of Push, that Thunderwave could push three different targets from the same casting in three different directions, as long as the targets ended up further from the caster than they started.
How would you do that in a real-time game?
Anyway, the system as it is would translate into a turn-based system easily. That's true for practically any RPG because they ARE turn-based games. However, my overall point is that 4E would easily convert into an MMO as well because its system already has several similar functions.
If that's something that materializes, and if it works well, then it's something that I can see translated over to a D&D MMO, making it more turn-based for when the combat starts. That'd be interesting. I would definitely prefer to see a turn-based game over a realtime game. I loved NWN2, but it wasn't very entertaining when I tried to play a spellcaster. When combat started there, I just targeted the nearest opponent, rushed him, and started swinging my sword at him til he was dead. That's not what I want out of a D&D MMO. Especially one based off of 4E rules, where Bards and Warlords have all kinds of abilities that let them maneuver other characters into place, and so on.
So yeah, put me down as someone who'd like to see the game become turn-based the moment combat starts. That, I think, would be nice. Not to mention set it apart from other MMO's like WoW. The closer it is to recreating the tabletop experience, though, the better. I absolutely agree with that, and would hate to sign up to play only to find that the classes I wanted to try out have been drastically rewritten in order to make them function in a realtime combat game (And in changing them so much, they're no longer the classes I wanted to try out to begin with).
As for the setting, it should absolutely be set in Forgotten Realms. Setting D&D Online in Eberron was a huge mistake. Eberron is a setting that deviates from the D&D norm, whereas the Realms is representative of what people expect of D&D. So if you're going to make a D&D MMO, then it should be a setting that's as close to baseline D&D as possible, not one that varies from it in style and mood in numerous ways.
In addition, they should include a large chunk of Faerun. Setting DDO in Stormreach was terrible, and made the game feel unbelievably claustrophobic. That'd be like being stuck mostly in Stormwind City in WoW. I don't want to be stuck solely in Waterdeep or wherever. I want to travel across the length and breadth of Faerun. While I don't expect them to include ALL of Faerun in one go, they should try to include as much as possible (they could always add the other parts, later). Here's what I'm thinking the starting map could look like.
The major cities making up one or two zones, save for Waterdeep, which I could see being composed of a lot more (maybe one for each ward). You could divide the rest up, maybe, like so:
- The North
- Luskan
- Neverwinter
- Icewind Dale
- Luruar
- Mithral Hall
- Silverymoon
- The High Forest
- The Western Heartlands
- Baldur's Gate
- Elturgard
- Elturel
- Fort Morninglord
- Berdusk
- Evereska
- Netheril
- Shade
- Cormyr
- Suzail
- The Dalelands
- Shadowdale
- Myth Drannor
...and so on. Start with maybe 30-40 zones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't WoW start with about 50? If so, 30-40, IMO anyway, seems like a reasonable start. And they could probably nail a big chunk of western Faerun in one go, and over time add the rest (Amn, Moonshaes, Aglarond, Rashemen, Thay, the Shaar, etc).
One other thing I'd like to see in a D&D MMO is the ability to customize the appearance of your character. Not just physical appearance (though I'd love to have the option of making a skinny or fat character. I didn't like how every human in WoW had the same exact physique), but the appearance of your equipment, too. One thing that bugged me about WoW was how mismatched your ended up looking, because you'd use whatever it is you found if it was better then what you had. So what I'd like is the ability to customize the appearance of all the gear I find. Not just its color but its physical appearance as well.
Now, you might think that an unrealistic suggestion, but they're apparently doing just that in Champions Online (Being made by Jack Emmert and Star Trek Online people). You'll be able to find equipment that boosts your stats, and you'll be able to customize the appearance of that equipment so that it fits in with the rest of your costume. That's what I'd like to see in a future D&D MMO. I don't want to be running around in a green helmet, golden breastplate, and purple leggings because that's the best equipment I could find. Same here. Oh, and naturally, I'd like it if ALL the equipment I have were visible on my character (something which wasn't true in DDO, which irrated me to no end).
Those're my hopes and dreams for a D&D MMO, anyway.
Oh - and here's another scenario taken from this thread on Thunderwave.
It was determined, based upon the current phrasing of Push, that Thunderwave could push three different targets from the same casting in three different directions, as long as the targets ended up further from the caster than they started.
How would you do that in a real-time game?
Well, the player wouldn't get to choose which direction different enemies get to go. As long as it's away from the caster, I can see this working just fine. In fact, there are already a couple of powers that do this in WoW (see Druid).
One thing that would draw me to a D&D MMO (again) is if they actually provide a D&D experience. DDO was just random dungeon crawls combined with a haphazard level-up system. Hint: I want to play D&D, not an MMO with D&D flavoring. It didn't really help that making a unique character was really difficult.
If the big wigs decide to move ahead with another MMO, they better keep their eye on the Worlds.com suit. Which, I'm sure they are, considering it could blow up due to more stupid decisions and end up effecting nearly all games with online capabilities, including the DDI Game Table.
Now that would be ambitious... and if executed with any kind of competence would get me to subscribe for life.
Well, the player wouldn't get to choose which direction different enemies get to go. As long as it's away from the caster, I can see this working just fine. In fact, there are already a couple of powers that do this in WoW (see Druid).
If you read the thread, you'd understand that what you are doing is not how the power works. It doesn't just force everyone in one linear direction away from you. You have the capability to move different targets different distances and in different directions. With this you can either send an enemy into a flank, or into a zone effect, or off a cliff... and possibly send one enemy into each, should the situation occur.
Another, better example is Warlord Utility 22 - Own the Battlefield: Slide every enemy within 10 squares of you a number of squares = to your int mod. And don't even try to say 'a Fear effect like in WoW' because that is a gross misunderstanding of the point of the power.
I guess we will just have a difference of opinion. To me, this notion is a sacrifice that can ill be afforded for the current incarnation of D&D. There are too many powers in the game that require exact movement and placement in battle that simply cannot be translated without sacrifices that strip 4e of the essence of how the system works.
If you read the thread, you'd understand that what you are doing is not how the power works. It doesn't just force everyone in one linear direction away from you. You have the capability to move different targets different distances and in different directions. With this you can either send an enemy into a flank, or into a zone effect, or off a cliff... and possibly send one enemy into each, should the situation occur.
Another, better example is Warlord Utility 22 - Own the Battlefield: Slide every enemy within 10 squares of you a number of squares = to your int mod. And don't even try to say 'a Fear effect like in WoW' because that is a gross misunderstanding of the point of the power.
I guess we will just have a difference of opinion. To me, this notion is a sacrifice that can ill be afforded for the current incarnation of D&D. There are too many powers in the game that require exact movement and placement in battle that simply cannot be translated without sacrifices that strip 4e of the essence of how the system works.
I read the thread and I'm well aware of how the power works. That should be obvious from the first sentence
Unwarranted snooty comments aside, the only way I could see a direct translation working is by having what they're building right now in the D&D Game Table. Turn based, tactical movement, etc.
Real-time third person control is not something I see working out so well for direct translation. However, with some creative rights, I can see it working out just fine.
Why? Because there is no real DM or actual movement in the campaign... least not by the individual player.
The best "MMO" was Neverwinter Nights PWs, but actually building one was a big pain in the booty. But at least the DM could modify things so that player's actions actually affected the world. However, you are still limited by the computer tools available.
I think if WOTC can actually get the digital table top up and running this could be something. You can still get together, get some nice visuals to help the imagination, but its still a real RPG.
This could be a revolutionary next step in gaming.... or it could be a dud, and I think that WOTC is wise to make sure they've got everything right before they release it.
I'm an Eberron lover, but I hated DDO. I'd love a good D&D MMO.
I am a true lover of PnP, and I don't think it is possible to get PnP online. That said, don't try. Boulder's Gate was good, WoW is good, DDO is not.
That said, make a MMO, build in the D&D world, give us the classes, the cool new 4e powers (which would all go nice on a button bar with timers) and make it a MMO.
ddo is a better mmo then any on the market better combat system then any other conan tried to do something simlar but it doesnt work as well.
I don't need a super graphics interface. My imagination is the best interface available, and no computer will ever top it. What the computer CAN do is facilitate it, and allow people from around the globe to get together and play when they have the time.
The digital tabletop can do that. The question is how intuitive the the softare designer can make the application so that people will use it, and not get frustrated. The more natural the interface is, the more likely it will be a success.
There are so many diverse actions that can be taken by an imaginative group, the software designer has to know where to "let go" and where step in. There is a balance here, and the only way to be successful is to make it so that it appeals to the most people.
Its a tall order, and I don't envy the task WOTC has put upon itself. However, if they pull it off, it will completely revolutionize table top RPG gaming.
As a gamer, I'm hoping for the best.
Combat could be turn-based and non combat could be real-time. Players could meet in taverns in major towns (where i would suggest having players start). from the tavern's they could accept level appropriate Jobs (aka adventures) and when enough people sign up for the same job your whisked away to the adventure locale and off you go. You could get player rewards and story awards the same way as LFR.
The biggest conflict i see is DMs. Ideally players would be able to, through one means or another, become DMs and run adventures, and then what's being run would be what's available. You could also implement private adventures so if someone set up a group they could make sure they got together, if someone didn't show they could open the adventure public and let someone else come in, or not.
However, if you do that you have to deal with a potential lack of DMs and/or public adventures, especially at the beginning so you would probably need some form of "Bot" DM, which would obviously be inferior to real ones.
Anyway, that would give, i think, the feel of tabletop DnD, with the play anytime with anyone advantages of an MMO. It also would never be accused of being a "WoW Clone".
So, theres my two bits.
Combat could be turn-based and non combat could be real-time.
While I am a nostalgic fan of the old SSI games, I would prefer DDO combat over a turn based system every day. It was really really fun.
The only thing that killed DDO for me, was that it was more and more turned into a loot run grindfest by every module which was released - and that you where totally screwed if you wanted to solo something, except if your char was very powerful (state of the art build and at least second line equipment) and you where a really skillful player.
If they do a new MMO for D&D, they should really look at CoH (looking at the power system I assume that they already did - uh well, Cryptic is the developer of CoH... MUWAHAHA!)
CoH has almost all the things in it that D&D 4e has (knock back, knock prone, teleport, teleport foe...). It has the best character creation of all MMOs I know, since my characters look & feel is determined by what I want, not by what my equipment dictates me.
An other great feature of CoH is, that missions adjust to party size.
So, my MMO wishlist:
- Combat System similar to CoH, maybe with a little DDO put into it
- Graphics like Warhammer Online
- The interesting mission layout and instance/quest design of DDO (traps, levers, puzzles all the goodness)
- Mission scaling, side kicking, mentoring, level pacts like in CoH
- Style of WoW: They are simply awesome in creating themed areas with apropirate monsters and stuff. Something no other MMO ever achieved for me.
- Character L&F customization like CoH or Star Wars Galaxies [before CU, where you just could wear every outfit you wanted in combat]. So, you could say how your weapon and your armor looks, and as long as you're using the right type of weapon and the right type of armor, your character looks like you imagined him.
- Content, lots of content. You can never beat WoW on this, but you should try to come as close as possible.
- Cool stuff for the powergamers (i.e. cooler looking armor styles, collectors items, some uber rare items), but stuff that doesn't make a power gamer char so much more powerful that playing together with one as a casual gamer makes your char totally and absolutely useless - this is probably the most tricky part in an MMO. You want the power gamer to get something for his effort, but you don't want the casual gamer feel like he is a total whimp. This was an other problem with DDO. If you hadn't the newest item drops on your char, you where really weaker. Combine this with a combat system that requires a lot of player skill, a well equipped and built character played by a really skillful player was ten times as powerful as a normally equipped and built char played by a casual. That was too much for most casual or semi casual gamers.
- Auction house and in-game email from the beginning (come on, we know that sooner or later it has to come :D)
I've played several MMOs and i have always cringed at the concept that anyone would dare call them a role playing games. I love warcraft and I love D&D but i see no need to have one that's both. I'd prefer a world like warcraft as a blank slate that I could use to base adventures in. I like good graphics but i'd like a bit more flexibility of creation than WOW or the old NWN allowed. I want the online gaming board that has been promised but i want it to look good. I'm an old school player that preferred talking to my players and running a game, not lining up mindless npc's and having them "mortal combat" it to the end so they could simply loot it. I think if you want an online version of D&D you need to just play warcraft because it will just end up a close clone of that.
There is a online verison of d&d and it is no clone of wow
Not difficult at all. For the Fey Step, simply make it another ability. Hit the button on your toolbar and you move instantly to wherever you click with your mouse, within range. As for action points, it's just another button on your hotbar. As long as you have an action point, hit that and then whatever other move you want and you go immediately.
turn based would never work for an mmo losing turn based is a sacrifce you have to make to do as mmo
Well, the player wouldn't get to choose which direction different enemies get to go. As long as it's away from the caster, I can see this working just fine. In fact, there are already a couple of powers that do this in WoW (see Druid).
One thing that would draw me to a D&D MMO (again) is if they actually provide a D&D experience. DDO was just random dungeon crawls combined with a haphazard level-up system. Hint: I want to play D&D, not an MMO with D&D flavoring. It didn't really help that making a unique character was really difficult.
If the big wigs decide to move ahead with another MMO, they better keep their eye on the Worlds.com suit. Which, I'm sure they are, considering it could blow up due to more stupid decisions and end up effecting nearly all games with online capabilities, including the DDI Game Table.
You cant have played ddo if you say its random dungeon crawls yes it mainly dungeon crawls but they arent random and if you care to look there is a well thought out back story and its very easy to make a unique character if you even try a little I dotn think yoiu played at all
You cant have played ddo if you say its random dungeon crawls yes it mainly dungeon crawls but they arent random and if you care to look there is a well thought out back story
I totally agree here. DDO is and was the only MMO with interesting quests. In fact a lot of the DDO quests are far better than a lot of PnP D&D adventures I played.
and its very easy to make a unique character if you even try a little I dotn think yoiu played at all
Well, stat wise, yes. From your look and feel: No. Even if you are willing to sacrifice optimum stats for armor and take a worse armor for your look and feel, there aren't much customization options. A few faces, a few hair styles and you get armors as complete sets.
D&D would be cool for customization, even if you say the look of your torso armor is determined by the actual armor. You could still customize arms, legs abdomen and so on.
You cant have played ddo if you say its random dungeon crawls yes it mainly dungeon crawls but they arent random and if you care to look there is a well thought out back story and its very easy to make a unique character if you even try a little I dotn think yoiu played at all
Well, I did. And, when I say random, I don't mean like Infinite Dungeons from Neverwinter Nights. I mean, why does that supply house have a 4 tier dungeon? And, backstory says nothing for current story. Just look at the backstory for WoW, which is considerable. Even Guild Wars has a backstory, yet (like just about all MMO's) it has no correlation to whatever you may be involved with in the game.
Perhaps patches have brought about more character options since I played it for a couple of months back in '05. But, I can say that choosing between five haircuts and then appearing on the same pier as literally every other player while wearing the same armor does not make me feel like my character is unique. No matter the race, we all got the same starting area, and we all had to go through the same dungeons in the same order. Unique? Story? Yeah, I don't see them. Granted, this has been my major quarrel with MMO's in general...
And, please, use sentence structures in even the vaguest sense. I had to read your post three times before being able to respond.
Well, I did. And, when I say random, I don't mean like Infinite Dungeons from Neverwinter Nights. I mean, why does that supply house have a 4 tier dungeon?
Well, of course they could have done a few things better, but compared to WoW quests DDO was a huge leap forward...
And, backstory says nothing for current story. Just look at the backstory for WoW, which is considerable. Even Guild Wars has a backstory, yet (like just about all MMO's) it has no correlation to whatever you may be involved with in the game.
The problem is that it is too easy to miss the story if you just go to the quest giver and click something like "accept task". A little more variance would have been appreciated here, I agree.
Perhaps patches have brought about more character options since I played it for a couple of months back in '05. But, I can say that choosing between five haircuts and then appearing on the same pier as literally every other player while wearing the same armor does not make me feel like my character is unique.
No, this did not change. In fact after they anounced what they want to do with character customization several months before the game was lauched, I thought about ignoring DDO in the future. Well I didn't and had a lot of fun playing it, until it went downhill to become a "no casual gamers allowed" game.
Well, of course they could have done a few things better, but compared to WoW quests DDO was a huge leap forward...
The problem is that it is too easy to miss the story if you just go to the quest giver and click something like "accept task". A little more variance would have been appreciated here, I agree.
No, this did not change. In fact after they anounced what they want to do with character customization several months before the game was lauched, I thought about ignoring DDO in the future. Well I didn't and had a lot of fun playing it, until it went downhill to become a "no casual gamers allowed" game.
Hmm, interesting. Thank you. I may or may not give the game another look in the near future.
Hmm, interesting. Thank you. I may or may not give the game another look in the near future.
Well, it is just my POV and depends on your definition of casual gamer. I just read a thread on the DDO boards (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=169491) and it boiled down - like almost all ddo threads - to about having this item or not.
This speaks volumes about what the game has become.
There are always a couple of items which drop in certain quests (preferrable raids) which you have to do 50 times to get them. If you don't have them, you loose - well - mostly.
The mechanics of ANY edition of D&D are not suitible for a non-turn based video game of ANY sort.
Before you even say it, KOTOR was turn based.
Does that mean a D&D MMO is impossible? No. It means that the D&D MMO would be using different mechanics. You could keep the flavor and adapt the powers and make a decent game, but really you would have to do some interesting things to prevent it from becoming just another WoW clone. (Of course WoW was pretty much an Everquest clone anyway)
The mechanics of ANY edition of D&D are not suitible for a non-turn based video game of ANY sort.
Well, sure you have to twitch it, drop some powers and introduce some new, but 4e does need far less adaption than previous editions.
Change at-will to short recharge (one or two seconds), encounter to medium recharge (5-20 seconds) and daily to long recharge (1-3 minutes), allow to target an ally and an enemy simultaneously and you can really emulate 70% of the D&D powers (if not more) very easily.
what already has been done in MMOs - they even have been done in CoH:
- knock prone, slowed, immobilzed, stunned, restrained... well I think all the status effects in 4e have been done in an MMO
- push, pulls
- zones
- pets (flaming sphere is nothing but a pet, too)
- and so on
Things that need to be adapted:
- Free moves become a speed buff
- shifts become a bonus to defense
- granted attacks become an immediate recharge of some powers
- hope you get the picture.
Heck, the 4e cleave is very similar to the cleave implemented in DDO.
In fact a lot of the changes to the 3.5 system that DDO made went back into 4e. I was opposed to some of them (especially lots of HP at level 1) but I was convinced that this approach is better for most people.
I only think that 4e misses are nice rules for level 0 chars, which should be similar to old level 1 chars. Just for the people who like to start only a little better than common people :D
But back to topic: 4e is way easier to adapt to an MMO format. If they would keep the cool quest structure from DDO*, throw in a good portion of WoW style and make the thing playable solo, it could be a blast :D
*Yeah, I agree, some things where wierd. But the first time I chased that kobolds that had kidnapped the girl through the sewers, and then these two kobolds ran past me because they got afraid from the hobgoblin who was supposed to pay them I was really thinking D&D has become reality as an MMO ;)