Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 briskbaby Jun 25, 2008 10:00:05	To whom it may concern, I am not in the military. However, I see a lot of posts from current military that cannot get a game together with their old D&D group due to relocation or deployment. I think WotC may want to look into providing our military men and women with a discount for D&Di content. They are doing their jobs for us and one of the things I'm sure they would love to do is gather around a "table" and have fun with friends and family at home. Please consider adding an option to your pricing scheme for these people. Thank you for your time, BRISKbaby
#2 mudbunny Jun 25, 2008 10:04:54	This is a great idea. I have PMed a WotC staff member with the link to your post. As a former army brat, I understand the difficulties of keeping friendships together when you are moved every coule of years.
#3 briskbaby Jun 25, 2008 10:06:28	Now I know what the VCL can do for us ;) Thank you for your quick reply. BRISKbaby
#4 mudbunny Jun 25, 2008 10:09:41	I can't promise anything will get done. But I can try to pass things up the line.
#5 briskbaby Jun 25, 2008 10:22:04	I understand.
#6 epochgames Jun 25, 2008 11:42:28	It used to be, military men, police officers, firefighters...all of these people got discounts. Go to buy a car? You got the fire fight special. Boys in blue need not pay for that cup of coffee. An airman just got transferred and needs some new digs for going out on the town? No problem; after all, a fly boy's gotta look spiffy. Unfortunately, over the years, the practice of doing this has gone down tremendously. A loss of respect in some cases, and in others a simple move to enhance profits. I know a few places still do it, but it's extremely limited. A local gas station never used to charge the cops who stopped in to grab a coffee--now, I see the employees and customers are often offering to pay, because the business changed its practices. It's sad to see this happen. There is another side to the coin. Some departments have actually barred their staff from accepting gifts and discounts--a way to combat corruption, although taken a bit to far. There was this gas station I used to go to that always gave cops free coffee. The shop had no clue policy had changed and cops were no longer allowed to receive free gifts or discounts. The employees were curious when most officers started insisting on paying full price for their cup of java. Then, it made big news when an officer was fired for accepting free coffee. There was nothing else on this guy's record. He was an exemplary officer. But, he was fired, nonetheless. I would hope that more people would allow for this discounts, but I don't think WotC will do this. The cost to employ the people to check records and make sure the discount is being only properly employed coupled with the loss in revenue could far outweigh its worth to the company.
#7 briskbaby Jun 25, 2008 13:46:35	There are benefits and costs associated with this, and any, pricing scheme that WotC decides to use. Instead of discussing those in this thread, I'd rather have support for the idea itself voiced.
#8 epochgames Jun 25, 2008 14:15:23	There are benefits and costs associated with this, and any, pricing scheme that WotC decides to use. Instead of discussing those in this thread, I'd rather have support for the idea itself voiced. You're right, Brisk. I didn't realize how quickly it could derail the topic, as some were eager to point out. I am totally in support of the idea. And, while I've been a staunch supporter of the "DDi Too Expensive" crowd, knowing that a discount was offered like this, I'd actually be willing to pay more.
#9 idoneron Jun 26, 2008 7:40:42	If a company chooses to make the political statement that it is to give discount to US soldiers, that is their business. I might not like it, but I won't stop buying their products, unless they are bad and/or too expensive. But when I see a thread like this, I note that I am not able to properly reply here without breaking the code of conduct. (A thread like this is actually inviting breaches of that, which is why I will report it.) Still I can't help asking a question that I hope is innocent enough: What about people who work as volunteers all over the world, fighting poverty, disease, natural disasters, environmental problems or illiteracy? Are they more or less worthy of discounts?
#10 mountc Jun 26, 2008 9:52:17	If a company chooses to make the political statement that it is to give discount to US soldiers, that is their business. Why does it have to be a political statement to provide soldiers with a discount? Is it a political statement to have senior discounts or child discounts? It's only a political statement if you choose to make it one. But when I see a thread like this, I note that I am not able to properly reply here without breaking the code of conduct. Really? You can't find a civil way to respond? That speaks volumes about your personal skills. (A thread like this is actually inviting breaches of that, which is why I will report it.) That's kind of short-sighted and knee-jerk. Perhaps you should report all of Astrid's Parlor too, since just about every thread there invites breaches. Still I can't help asking a question that I hope is innocent enough: What about people who work as volunteers all over the world, fighting poverty, disease, natural disasters, environmental problems or illiteracy? Are they more or less worthy of discounts? See? You said you couldn't reply without breaking the code of conduct and you did so just fine. That's a legitimate question. I wonder the same thing myself. What about teachers, rescue workers, first aid clinics, homeless shelters, etc? I'm in the Navy Reserves. While I wouldn't balk if I got a discount, I never ask for one. I didn't when I was active duty. I could have gone to Busch Gardens for free just about any time I wanted. I always paid. The discount is nice, but I don't necessarily agree with the preferential treatment. Besides soldiers and police officers, there are plenty of other deserving people. The best would be to eliminate preferences across the board. But YMMV.
#11 idoneron Jun 26, 2008 11:52:26	Really? You can't find a civil way to respond? That speaks volumes about your personal skills. I will spell it out for you then, if you would care to read my opinion. This message board as well as WotC's products is used by people from all over the world. In Europe, for example, an overwhelming majority of people are often strongly against the US military presence in foreign countries. By giving discount to the US military WotC would risk offending many of its customers, because of the political statement that such a discount implies. It is not about being civil. I never said a word about being civil, did I? It is about talking politics on a message board where you are asked not to. Edit: I doublechecked the code of conduct and it seems it does not mention politics the way I thought it did. I apologise for my mistake, but still feel that it is not an appropriate discussion for this forum, as it has nothing really to do with the DDI, and it is a subject that many people have strong opinions about.
#12 strayth Jun 26, 2008 12:25:44	This is a great idea. Yeah, it really is.
#13 mountc Jun 26, 2008 13:54:33	It is not about being civil. I never said a word about being civil, did I? It is about talking politics on a message board where you are asked not to. Edit: I doublechecked the code of conduct and it seems it does not mention politics the way I thought it did. I apologise for my mistake, but still feel that it is not an appropriate discussion for this forum, as it has nothing really to do with the DDI, and it is a subject that many people have strong opinions about. Ah ha. That explains a lot. I didn't think politics were against the code of conduct, which is why I didn't think that was what your problem was. As for the appropriateness of this thread or not, the fact is the thread remains. Many people have strong opinions about a lot of things. In fact, like I noted in my post, I don't necessarily disagree with you. But I did want to note that choosing to give discounts to people who serve in the US Military is only political if you choose to make it so. I know plenty of people personally who are not politically left in the spectrum. I'd hazard to say I know more people who would agree with what I assume your politics to be than what my politics are. Supporting them for their service is not a political issue any more than supporting a social worker in family services.
#14 orc_kirin Jun 26, 2008 15:02:23	I've removed content from this thread because baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks or disparaging whole groups of people.
#15 epochgames Jun 26, 2008 15:13:07	I will spell it out for you then, if you would care to read my opinion. This message board as well as WotC's products is used by people from all over the world. In Europe, for example, an overwhelming majority of people are often strongly against the US military presence in foreign countries. By giving discount to the US military WotC would risk offending many of its customers, because of the political statement that such a discount implies. Admittedly, I hadn't really considered this, and you very possibly have a very valid point. I still don't know whether WotC would offer the discounts. If the politics of supporting troops or other charities was such an issue, though, it begs the question as WotC's parent company donates to charities and support programs every year. Would such a decision make more money for WotC? I doubt it. Would it lose them money? I'm of the opinion it wouldn't. But, your opinion is an important one that anyone who would make such a decision must consider.
#16 idoneron Jun 26, 2008 16:19:40	I'd hazard to say I know more people who would agree with what I assume your politics to be than what my politics are. Supporting them for their service is not a political issue any more than supporting a social worker in family services. I understand and respect the difference between supporting US foreign policy and supporting the individual soldiers. From the international perspective though, which I as a Swede find quite natural to choose, supporting the soldiers still carries with it a strong political stigma. In general I think supporting people who try to do a good thing for your community is something commendable. The difference here is that the DDI is a worldwide venture. As, from the latest numbers I saw, about 90% of the population of my country don't share the view that US soldiers are doing something good for the world community, such support from WotC is something that is likely to lead to a bad reaction among gamers in my country, as well as in many other countries in the world. As I really want DDI to be a successful product, I feel it is important to remember that there are all sorts of perspectives in matters like these. (Please believe me, I am trying really hard not to offend anybody here. Or even to get this to derail into a political debate, which I still feel does not belong here.)
#17 holy_beholder Jun 26, 2008 16:43:27	I will spell it out for you then, if you would care to read my opinion. This message board as well as WotC's products is used by people from all over the world. In Europe, for example, an overwhelming majority of people are often strongly against the US military presence in foreign countries. By giving discount to the US military WotC would risk offending many of its customers, because of the political statement that such a discount implies. That said, thats probably not going to happen if there are other people who get discounts too. For example, if the peace core got a discount as well as the military, policemen, and whoever else, nobody would make a big deal out of the military getting a discount.
#18 Dralenan Jun 26, 2008 18:14:55	I think it's a great idea, for all the reasons stated. The fact that an American company selling a product would offer an American discount isn't in anyway offensive or illogical. They wouldn't be gouging the price for other countries, but identifying a demographic who would definitely be helped by usage of the product, and using a discount to encourage their participation. Doesn't have to be anything political about it.
#19 zyfax Jun 26, 2008 19:11:12	Also a swede, I agree wholeheartedly with Idonerons posts.
#20 Kentinal Jun 26, 2008 21:00:04	FWIW, the OP did not say USA military, just said military "due to relocation or deployment". Now I can not be sure if intent was just USA or NATO forces, perhaps it could be a member of any organized force. Only the OP can answer that question. As a matter of granting a discount to any group it strikes me as a logistic nightmare. Identification of status requires a double check of any users claim. This adds a tech burden and some clearly would not want their superiors to even know they play D&D depending on whom serving. This statement would apply to most groups, age discount, police discount, student discount and so on down any list.
#21 briskbaby Jun 30, 2008 13:24:46	FWIW, the OP did not say USA military, just said military "due to relocation or deployment". Now I can not be sure if intent was just USA or NATO forces, perhaps it could be a member of any organized force. Only the OP can answer that question. I had originally meant for an American Military discount only. I understand the desire/need for other groups who help their community to receive discounts (e.g. educators, law-enforcement, etc). Again, I am only posting to suggest U.S. military discount. This post was not created to support or condemn the past, present, or future military affairs of the United States. This post was not created to discuss the military affairs of the United States. I am posting to support the individual soldiers that are serving their country and it's citizens. While I can understand and respect the view's of the Swedes, I support American troops. They leave their homes and families to provide service to their country and it's citizens and they deserve our respect. Moreover, they have mine. ~BRISK
#22 psychickid Jun 30, 2008 13:39:43	I don't have a lot to offer except I think it's a good idea. It's something I agree with despite my strong opposition to the current US military policy (worldwide bases, war in Iraq, etc). Not all soldiers in an army may agree with what the higher ups say or what the policy is. In anycase though, I don't want to derail this into a political debate, I was only tossing my two cents out there. I think it's a good idea.
#23 ryukatana Jul 02, 2008 0:09:40	"I wholeheartedly agree... that it is very hard to give the response this deserves without breaching the code of conduct... I honestly think that it isn't a matter of whether or not I CAN find a civil way to discuss this... I think its needless to try to be 'civil', instead of just being blatant and honest; and if people can't handle your honesty, then maybe they should just, I don't know, grow up and get over themselves. Is that civil enough?" "I digress... The topic is about preferential treatment to people who have done nothing to deserve it... Yes, that's exactly what I believe. Are you better than other people because you protect those people? No, and that's taking the great leap to actually believing that soldiers protect people." "I'm not saying that it will effect me in any way, but I would be happy to know that WotC is doing nothing to support the idea that being a soldier is better than being a person."
#24 mountc Jul 02, 2008 7:49:46	"I wholeheartedly agree... that it is very hard to give the response this deserves without breaching the code of conduct... I honestly think that it isn't a matter of whether or not I CAN find a civil way to discuss this... I think its needless to try to be 'civil', instead of just being blatant and honest; and if people can't handle your honesty, then maybe they should just, I don't know, grow up and get over themselves. Is that civil enough?" Spoken like someone who watches too much Olbermann. The reason for civil discourse is to prevent fighting. "I digress... The topic is about preferential treatment to people who have done nothing to deserve it... Yes, that's exactly what I believe. Are you better than other people because you protect those people? No, and that's taking the great leap to actually believing that soldiers protect people." Do you actually think that's what this is about? It's not about the "protection." It's about the willing to risk life and limb to prevent wars on home soil. If you don't think someone who is willing to put their own life on the line to save your own is worth of preferential treatment, you have some serious problems with your frame of reference. Note that I don't think we should be giving out preferential treatment to military personal either, because then we'd also have to consider police, firefighters, etc. "I'm not saying that it will effect me in any way, but I would be happy to know that WotC is doing nothing to support the idea that being a soldier is better than being a person." You have some serious misunderstandings about discounts. Does that mean that senior citizens are "better than being a person" when they get discounts at restaurants? Discounts are not about status elevation. Sometimes they're about honoring people who risk their lives. Sometimes they're about honoring people who have worked hard their whole lives and are now retired.
#25 ryukatana Jul 02, 2008 15:23:33	The reason for civil discourse is to prevent fighting. "That's just bull; the only reason that's true is because people are too childish to get over themselves." Do you actually think that's what this is about? It's not about the "protection." It's about the willing to risk life and limb to prevent wars on home soil. If you don't think someone who is willing to put their own life on the line to save your own is worth of preferential treatment, you have some serious problems with your frame of reference. "The fact that you believe that is so sad I might just burst out laughing. What about soldiers who act only as enforcers? What about the draft, were those people so willing to die? What about the current war, are those soldiers dying to protect us? What about the Nazis, they were soldiers... Don't even tell me that doesn't apply, I'm aiming this at every soldier in existence." You have some serious misunderstandings about discounts. Does that mean that senior citizens are "better than being a person" when they get discounts at restaurants? Discounts are not about status elevation. Sometimes they're about honoring people who risk their lives. Sometimes they're about honoring people who have worked hard their whole lives and are now retired. "I'm sorry, so EVERY elderly person worked hard and devoted their life to people? If you believe that, I am also sad for you... Sometimes discounts are just people being narrow-minded and thinking that seniority, or a badge, makes you superior. Sometimes the people who truly help others because they care, go unnoticed, because they aren't part of some 'special group.' Quite often, those people don't care that they aren't getting discounts and special treatment!" "Once again, I digress, like I said, if WotC wishes to follow this system of granting groups preferential treatment because they have some title that society wants to label as 'superior', fine. I just hope that they don't screw their other customers over, or lose money for themselves."
#26 Kentinal Jul 02, 2008 15:32:30	I know I likely should not be posting this, however doing so anyway. Discounts for any group means those outside the group(s) need to pay for them. At least for any organization that wants a continued existence (It does not matter if org. is non-profit or for profit). Establishment of any class requires others to pay for it.
#27 ryukatana Jul 02, 2008 15:51:54	"Exactly, the money always comes from somewhere. When someone steals, the employees and customers pay for it. When one customer gets a discount, some other customer(s) is/are paying for it. Yet another reason I think it's ridiculous."
#28 jimbo7987 Jul 02, 2008 18:15:34	Are soldiers to poor to pay $15 a month? Stupid idea. Someone willing to kill doesn't deserve respect, and that applies whether they are a terrorist or a soldier or whatever.
#29 arandmoor Jul 02, 2008 19:31:40	RyukaTana...please read this and reflect on what you've done. As for me...Wizards of the Coast is an American Company (owned by a Japanese company...but hey). You support your troops and we support ours.
#30 Wollstonecraft Jul 02, 2008 20:05:05	...I think WotC may want to look into providing our military men and women with a discount for D&Di content.... Please consider adding an option to your pricing scheme for these people. In reply to what I believe to be the OP's points (statements for or against his proposal), I would like to take a stance in opposition to their request. I would ask WotC not to initiate any price reduction for military personnel. Cheers! Wollstonecraft
#31 ryukatana Jul 03, 2008 2:19:11	RyukaTana...please read this and reflect on what you've done. As for me...Wizards of the Coast is an American Company (owned by a Japanese company...but hey). You support your troops and we support ours. "First of all, if you would prefer, we can replace my reference with Nazis to include a multitude of different armies, like the Soviet army, under Stalin, or we can go back as far as the Red Coats, or even further to the Persian army... My point refers to soldiers, regardless of their purpose." "Oh, and, I'm not Japanese, if that's what you wish to imply, and even if I was, I wouldn't support the Japanese army either. I think soldiers of any race are a problem, I don't discriminate." "Though, one thing I think you're right about, or at least your link, is that this has probably gotten to the point where this thread needs to be trashed. In fact, I wouldn't be too sad to see the idea go along with it." "Nonetheless, I do wish to say, that all-in-all, I am not trying to take shots at military men here. My point is only that the occupation itself does not entitle one to preferential treatment. I think the mere idea that any person is any better than any other is stupid. If preferential treatment is to be given, it should be in relation to who or what is granting said treatment. The only people who should be getting discounts on D&Di should be WotC employees and people who help contribute to D&Di."
#32 JohnLynch Jul 03, 2008 2:49:56	What about people who work as volunteers all over the world, fighting poverty, disease, natural disasters, environmental problems or illiteracy? Are they more or less worthy of discounts? I can't say if they're more or less deserving, but the groups EpochGames mentions are 3 groups that routinely put their lives in imminent danger in order to protect others. I don't see anything wrong with that. From the international perspective though, which I as a Swede find quite natural to choose, supporting the soldiers still carries with it a strong political stigma. As an Australian who is less then enthused with Bush and his international policies (and my government's part in those policies) I disagree with this quite strongly. It could be that Swedes feel differently, but not all of the international community does ;)
#33 mountc Jul 03, 2008 6:54:58	Godwin's Law - ON THE FIRST PAGE! Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Figures, from someone whose priorities are all screwed up. I'm not going to do a point by point rebuttal because it's obvious you are close-minded as all get-out. It's worthless to argue with people who refuse to even acknowledge that there are good reasons for general decorum and politeness. Good, continue to be narrow-minded, petty, and shallow. I'll continue to be open-minded and well-rounded and at the end of the day, I'll feel good about myself for being a better person than you. Yes, there are some people who are better than others. Those are generally the ones who give service to others while those others spit on them, call them Nazis and Stalinists, and denigrate any person who dares to put their lives on the line just so that you can continue to be ignorant and intolerant. I love it when the "tolerant" people shoot themselves in the feet and point out just how tolerant they really are. They can't even discuss things reasonably or get beyond the second page without invoking Godwin. It's hilarious. And, if you were paying attention AT ALL to what I said, you'd have noted that I thought it was a bad idea to give the preferential treatment myself, and that I'm a veteran who served on Active Duty including a deployment during the Iraq War.
#34 ryukatana Jul 03, 2008 8:05:15	Godwin's Law - ON THE FIRST PAGE! Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Figures, from someone whose priorities are all screwed up. I'm not going to do a point by point rebuttal because it's obvious you are close-minded as all get-out. It's worthless to argue with people who refuse to even acknowledge that there are good reasons for general decorum and politeness. Good, continue to be narrow-minded, petty, and shallow. I'll continue to be open-minded and well-rounded and at the end of the day, I'll feel good about myself for being a better person than you. Yes, there are some people who are better than others. Those are generally the ones who give service to others while those others spit on them, call them Nazis and Stalinists, and denigrate any person who dares to put their lives on the line just so that you can continue to be ignorant and intolerant. I love it when the "tolerant" people shoot themselves in the feet and point out just how tolerant they really are. They can't even discuss things reasonably or get beyond the second page without invoking Godwin. It's hilarious. And, if you were paying attention AT ALL to what I said, you'd have noted that I thought it was a bad idea to give the preferential treatment myself, and that I'm a veteran who served on Active Duty including a deployment during the Iraq War. "You know what, you want to pretend one person is better than another, it just proves that I am not the intolerant or the close-minded one. I am unsure how you know what my priorities are from a few sentences on an internet forum, but that's the thing about close-mindedness, you don't really have to know anything about a person to know all about them, right?" "I also enjoy internet crap, like Godwin's law... It just reminds me that some people feel the need to create reasons for others to feel inferior, so that they can feel superior..." "Now, if you want to resort to personal attacks, that's fine, you'll probably win, at least it may seem that way, because I am not going to assume things about you I don't know... You, on the other hand, do not seem to have that level of integrity. You know what's ironic..." It's worthless to argue with people who refuse to even acknowledge that there are good reasons for general decorum and politeness. "First of all, I believe that taking personal attacks (which, regardless of my civility, I have not done yet) is kind of... I don't know, not polite? Secondly, what I said, was that I see no reason to have to be polite. I understand the reason for it, but it's kind of like the reason for having soldiers to protect people. It's because other people do stupid things, and you can't do much about it, except to find a way to put up a barrier against their stupidity. I, for one, would rather watch people wallow in their stupidity, then to try to be civil for them." "Personally, because I'm sure I've made my share of conduct breaches, and this thread is obviously not productive... Please, just put this thread out of its misery... I don't know what it is, but I just have to see what kind of idiocy pops up next, and I always come back for a peek. Unfortunately, I'm never disappointed, so long as I wait long enough..." "I think the fact that this thread took less than 30 posts to dissolve into this, makes a clear argument against this particular idea."
#35 mountc Jul 03, 2008 9:21:23	"You know what, you want to pretend one person is better than another Wait, you really don't think some people are better than others? Like the Dalai Lama is not a better person than Robert Mugabe? Or that law-abiding senior citizens are better people than MS13 gang punks? "I also enjoy internet crap, like Godwin's law... It just reminds me that some people feel the need to create reasons for others to feel inferior, so that they can feel superior..." You brought it up. These sorts of opinions usually come from people who speak like you do. because I am not going to assume things about you I don't know... But you already did. Too late to take it back now. "I think the fact that this thread took less than 30 posts to dissolve into this, makes a clear argument against this particular idea." Funny, it took your post to make it that way...hmmm.
#36 bob_loblaw Jul 03, 2008 12:18:21	The military runs deep in my family. (I come form a divorced family that is quite extended so some of this may get confusing.) One of my grandfathers served 25 years in the Navy. Three of my grandfathers served in the Army during WWII and Korea, one went as far as Vietnam. My father served 32 years in the Coast Guard. My mother served 13 years in the Coast Guard. One of my uncles conducted interrogations in Vietnam. One of my great uncles served during WWII and was at the Battle of the Bulge. I'm a veteran. I served during Desert Shield/Storm. During that time, I was able to use quite a few discounts and even got some freebies. It was great fun. Do I feel that I deserved it? At the time, maybe a little. Now, absolutely. I volunteered to serve my country without question. I made a conscious decision to put my life on the line during training as well as actual combat (which, fortunately I didn't need to do). Soldiers are not paid very well for the services they provide. Their families are not taken care of as well as could be and many of those families are torn apart by the demands put on the soldiers. Every little thing that can be done to support them should be done. Without them, many of the things we take for granted would not be available at all. Whenever I can, I try to do something to support the military. This holds for all soldiers. Even soldiers that are drafted make the decision to follow through with the orders they are given. Those soldiers can choose to go AWOL, but instead they choose to support their country. Many of them end up being exceptional soldiers. They may not choose to stay, but they do their jobs very well and ask for very little in return. Do I think that everyone should give discounts to those who serve? No. I think that those who serve should take full advantage of the discounts that are offered. They deserve it, regardless of which military they are in. Note that I only consider service men and women of actual nations not loose organizations that promote violence and terror. The problem with giving discounts comes in when we ask ourselves which other groups should also get discounts. What about the fact that I serve my community now as a pharmacy technician, first responder, and local volunteer? My life can end up in danger as a first responder, but ultimately I am making other lives better. Should I also get a discount for that? What about politicians? They serve their country as well, completely by choice. No matter what we think of how they act, they still are serving their country. Should they also get discounts? Their lives can often end up in upheaval simply because they are in the spotlight. Their families usually didn't ask for the spotlight, and yet they still serve as well. Should they get discounts? This list can go on. If someone offers them a discount, they should take it. As for the money needs to come from somewhere, that's only partially true. Target donates 5% of its profits to the community. Target also has some of the best prices and serves overall and is known as a discount retailer. Target chose not to go for the highest revenue but instead chose to cut into its profits for the betterment of the community. Target is not alone in this. Several other companies do the same thing. Sears goes so far as to continue to grant benefits to service members as well as pay for up to 5 years. Sears could raise their prices more to make up for this, but they don't Their prices are still comparable to others in the same industry. Sears is often singled out, but they are not the only company that does this. Should WotC give discounts to those who serve? I would like to see it, but I don't know if military folks should be singled out. I respect every one of those who serve honorably but I don't think that they should necessarily get preferential treatment. Serving your country does not necessarily mean you need to do it from the military. I do think they should take advantage of that treatment when it's offered.
#37 Kentinal Jul 03, 2008 16:55:24	*sighs* It appears two posters to this thread are trying to win a dispute, following the theory of the last one that posts wins the dispute. he marks of a flame war. My best advice for winning a flame war is never to post at all to it. All win that way. The merits and downside of a discount has been discussed. Comments like "Target donates 5% of its profits to the community" might be useful however does not discuss the entire issue. Target got that 5 percent from sales, then decides which community groups/projects to fund. The people that pay that 5 percent surcharge sometimes might not like how Target decides to spend it. The same kind of issue has risen here, short of giving everyone a discount. That is that some users will be required to pay for a bonus for a group they disapprove of. In some way everyone is special, just some people do not like how they are special. All in all this thread likely has served little purpose except to upset some users. There is no indication that any discount will be given to a group and odds are if the idea was even considered the rate of a discussion becoming a flaming thread makes it less likely this idea would have any consideration.
#38 merrilin Jul 03, 2008 17:39:14	As some poster already mentioned, if one special group gets discount, the rest will pay. As many other corporations, Wizards too have selected to give part of their profit to some special groups (corporate giving, not discounts per se) and those groups are pretty far from military. I'd find it rather comic if Wizards's support was redefined to include those listed in the link and US soldiers. But hey, Wizards is a company producing entertainment products, so why be so serious about corporate policy either. :D
#39 bob_loblaw Jul 03, 2008 17:55:40	omments like "Target donates 5% of its profits to the community" might be useful however does not discuss the entire issue. Target got that 5 percent from sales, then decides which community groups/projects to fund. The people that pay that 5 percent surcharge sometimes might not like how Target decides to spend it. My point was that a company need not increase the cost to the consumer just to make donations or to provide discounts. Target does not increase the cost by 5% just so they can donate. Target simply donates, and has been since the company began. Sears does something similar, without increasing costs to the consumer. Many other companies do similar things. They take a bit of a hit on their profits to do what they feel is ethically or morally right. All in all this thread likely has served little purpose except to upset some users. There is no indication that any discount will be given to a group and odds are if the idea was even considered the rate of a discussion becoming a flaming thread makes it less likely this idea would have any consideration. I disagree with this sentiment. One user in particular came in and, rather abrasively, decided that his opinion carried more clout than anyone else's. Several people have disagreed with the original assertion without feeling the need to be rude. I think this discussion can be very informative for any company that may consider providing discounts based on what someone does for a living.
#40 miklow Jul 03, 2008 22:53:05	So would this military discount only apply to US military personell, or to all military members from around the world that play and support D&D? .. Or perhaps just allies of the US ?
#41 Kentinal Jul 03, 2008 23:00:26	So would this military discount only apply to US military personell, or to all military members from around the world that play and support D&D? .. Or perhaps just allies of the US ? The OP has indicated that the proposal was intended just for US troops. As initial proposal was not that specific WotC might or might not be considering a wider target as the first post did not indicate US troops only. I suspect no action will be taken on the proposal no matter how it is viewed by those it was forwarded to.
#42 mudbunny Jul 04, 2008 14:21:16	The suggestion to provide discounts to specific groups, be they military (as indicated by the OP) or any other group (mentioned by many other posters) is always a controversial one. For every person that thinks it is a good idea, there will be people who will oppose it, based on idealogical reasons, personal reasons, political reasons or just a desire to be contrary. In addition, as many people pointed out, the money does have to come from somewhere, either profits or from other subscribers. As with all controversial suggestions, it is easy to start reacting emotionally in response to posts from those who hold positions different from your own. Please keep the CoC in mind and remember to avoid personal attacks in your posts
#43 holy_beholder Jul 05, 2008 0:02:33	"I'm sorry, so EVERY elderly person worked hard and devoted their life to people? If you believe that, I am also sad for you... Sometimes discounts are just people being narrow-minded and thinking that seniority, or a badge, makes you superior. Sometimes the people who truly help others because they care, go unnoticed, because they aren't part of some 'special group.' Quite often, those people don't care that they aren't getting discounts and special treatment!" 1. No, but enough have so that you can give all of them a discount. Otherwise you are pretty much punishing everyone because of a small group of people. Think back to school where the entire class was punished because one person wouldn't shut up. Yeah, now you understand how much that sucks. 2. Old people tend to eat less anyways. Its often buffets where they get in cheap. Incidentally 2 year olds are also often incredibly cheap. They don't eat much either. 3. Old people are less likely to cause a commotion. That takes too much energy. 3b. Some old people still have a lot of energy. Some young people have none. However these are the minority.
#44 Neconilis Jul 08, 2008 14:09:35	Three thngs before I leave to avoid being drawn into an argument: 1.) One of my favorite quotes from 40K that I find to be harsh, but which carries a truth that can often be seen in the real world as well. "You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. You are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood." -Inquisitor Czevak's Address to the Council of Ryanti 2.) I certainly would not object to or mind a military discount, and I do mean military. Even though I'm American I would have no qualms about a German, British, Japanese, Russian, etc. soldier recieving the same respect as a soldier from the country that I live in. The only exception to this would be military forces of a country that we were at war with, though admittdly if America was at war with a standing army there would be far greter issues to be concerned with than who's saving money on a recreational online product. 3.) Yes, as a rule disictions are foolish as who is to say one person's task in life is worth more than another's? Why should a doctor make more money than a man who takes your trash away every week when both are essential to modern society? Still, giving a nod of the hat and an admittedly inconsequential bonus to people who've embarked on neccessary, arguably often underpaid, yet dangerous careers; that I have no problem with. The question however lies with who then defines that category of people as admittedly it is not a universal opinion? I'd say the majority opinion by default as it seems logical, but admittedly this does nothing to mend the larger soical issues at hand. So maybe that's what needs to be fixed; and with overall appreciation and equality we'd end these puppet battles over their minutia. - Those are my thoughts at the moment, which are hopefully clear and decipherable enough. Food for thought as it were, but now I am departed.
#45 bacon-swiss Jul 11, 2008 14:00:05	God, that'd be great. I'm about to be deployed and D&Di was really the only thing about 4E that interested me. I'll happily pay full price though... If it's ever released.
#46 cold_hellfire Jul 12, 2008 13:35:34	As person who did not served in the army yet (Here in Israel we must serve between ages 18-21) I think its one of the better ideas this community have suggested and I hope WoTC will take soldiers into consideration while planning the pricing of the D&Di, In fact most of the people in Israel who started playing Roleplaying games have stopped by the army (yes we start playing as teenagers).
#47 BW0222 Jul 12, 2008 17:21:13	Folks, WotC, like any company, needs to think through discounts or freebees to any group. There are lots of folks who one could consider giving discounts to. Yes, it would be nice to give the military a break, but... what about children's hospitals, orphanages, children's cancer centers, battered women's shelters (for the kids), etc. Heck, maybe the military folks would rather you give their kids (or any of the above kids) the free online time instead of them? In other words, there are issues in terms of who really needs the discount which might be considered. However, why don't folks look at ways of helping their particular group (military or not) without involving WotC? Why not raise money for them? Why not offer to write modules, run D&DI games, send them your invites to their games, etc.? How about setting up some type of gaming clubs for online play and helping arrange DMs, online conventions, etc. for your specific group? Perhaps you could start a "Send a free invite to your favourite x" club so that folks from your group can request invites be sent to folks of their choice?
#48 bob_loblaw Jul 13, 2008 13:50:44	However, why don't folks look at ways of helping their particular group (military or not) without involving WotC? Why not raise money for them? Why not offer to write modules, run D&DI games, send them your invites to their games, etc.? How about setting up some type of gaming clubs for online play and helping arrange DMs, online conventions, etc. for your specific group? Perhaps you could start a "Send a free invite to your favourite x" club so that folks from your group can request invites be sent to folks of their choice? I really love this idea and may start up an online game for soldiers, assuming we ever see anything with DDI.