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D&Di subscription

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dustin_000
May 27, 2008 23:48:33 If I understand where D&Di is going, the $15/mo fee gets you (when it's all up):
Dragon Magazine Online
Dungeon Magazine Online
the Character creator/picture/archiver thingy
Rules encyclopedia access
The online gaming table

As a DM that constantly creates new stuff the monthly service sounds like something I might be willing to pay for.

I have a group of a dozen players and 2 other DMs, none of which will use much beyond "draw my character", so I doubt they'll subscribe.

And if they're not there, I don't see much point in joining either.

I simply can't imagine what players that just show up with a character sheet would want online that they'd be willing to pay $15/mo for. Oh, wait, 1 thing: you live in Nowhere Colorado with nobody else to play with for 100 miles.

Am I the only DM thinking this is what would happen?
#2
WolfStar76
May 28, 2008 13:46:32
If I understand where D&Di is going, the $15/mo fee gets you (when it's all up):
Dragon Magazine Online
Dungeon Magazine Online
the Character creator/picture/archiver thingy
Rules encyclopedia access
The online gaming table

As a DM that constantly creates new stuff the monthly service sounds like something I might be willing to pay for.

I have a group of a dozen players and 2 other DMs, none of which will use much beyond "draw my character", so I doubt they'll subscribe.

And if they're not there, I don't see much point in joining either.

I simply can't imagine what players that just show up with a character sheet would want online that they'd be willing to pay $15/mo for. Oh, wait, 1 thing: you live in Nowhere Colorado with nobody else to play with for 100 miles.

Am I the only DM thinking this is what would happen?

There's also an encounter creator, and a mapmaker, but you've got the gist of it.

A monthly subscription, we're told, will include "a number of 24-hour 'guest passes' ". These could be doled out to your players to use to join games if they don't want to subscribe for themselves.

Additional passes will be available for sale as well, I believe. So they wouldn't need a monthly subscription if they only want to play a couple times a month.
#3
dustin_000
Jun 01, 2008 12:11:17 If they had a "Players" option that had a reduced functionality set for $40/year, I could see buying multiple friends of mine that as a Christmas/birthday gift annually.

WotC could be getting $200 a year from me with that.

And from time to time my players talk about being a DM -- give them a toolset/helping hand and they could maybe score somebody else upgrading to DM access.
#4
Tinalas
Jun 01, 2008 16:56:56 I am seperated from my gaming group by 16 hours... This would be awesome for me.... I have been unable to find a gaming group here south of Miami.
#5
ericr42
Jun 01, 2008 20:46:00 I am actually really curious about D&Di. I haven't played D&D since I was a kid (AD&D in the early 1980s). I always liked D&D, but unfortunately, my friends stopped playing. MMORPGs never quite cut it for me. I would love to play, but I don't know anyone who is interested.

Another factor that makes playing for me difficult is that I am married with two young children. The upshot is that I would only be able to play after the kids went to bed. This is the time I would normally either watch tv or play an MMORPG.

So, for me the idea of playing a game like D&D over the internet has a lot of appeal, even with a subscription fee. I imagine that with the addition of a new ruleset, it is also a good time to start.

Any idea if D&Di will have a feature that will help people like me find groups to join?

- Eric
#6
snarky_monkey
Jun 01, 2008 21:21:23
There's also an encounter creator, and a mapmaker, but you've got the gist of it.

A monthly subscription, we're told, will include "a number of 24-hour 'guest passes' ". These could be doled out to your players to use to join games if they don't want to subscribe for themselves.

Additional passes will be available for sale as well, I believe. So they wouldn't need a monthly subscription if they only want to play a couple times a month.

So far the only problem I am seeing with the passes is that it's 24 hours from activation. So basically you get, on the average, one session, MAYBE two or a large marathon session. That doesn't include any outages or problems that may come up after you buy the pass on yours or WotC's end.
#7
snarky_monkey
Jun 01, 2008 21:22:41
Any idea if D&Di will have a feature that will help people like me find groups to join?

Yep. There is supposed to be a waiting area where DMs can post ads for players needed and open games and such.
#8
wotc_dm
Jun 01, 2008 22:01:05
So far the only problem I am seeing with the passes is that it's 24 hours from activation. So basically you get, on the average, one session, MAYBE two or a large marathon session. That doesn't include any outages or problems that may come up after you buy the pass on yours or WotC's end.

The basic design for Guest passes is that One Guest pass is designed to allow to play in One game session.

To accomodate various possible random factors (server outage is one of those, but definitely not the only thing that can happen.. for example, it is also possible that a DM starts a session and has to stop it after a few minutes for personal reasons, after his players have used up their guest passes).

We have established this 24 hour window to account for these various cases that can happen and can't be foreseen, and allow the player that had planned for some game time to find other games sessions and be able to play after using a Guest Pass.
#9
snarky_monkey
Jun 01, 2008 22:32:40
The basic design for Guest passes is that One Guest pass is designed to allow to play in One game session.

To accomodate various possible random factors (server outage is one of those, but definitely not the only thing that can happen.. for example, it is also possible that a DM starts a session and has to stop it after a few minutes for personal reasons, after his players have used up their guest passes).

We have established this 24 hour window to account for these various cases that can happen and can't be foreseen, and allow the player that had planned for some game time to find other games sessions and be able to play after using a Guest Pass.

Thank you again for answering my concerns. That seems like a logical solution for those kind of problems. Still, the idea that the best I, as a DM, is going to be able to do is just once a month, assuming I want to play with just my own players, is tough. I know this assumes that none of my players will be buying a subscription or anymore guest passes, but still seems a bit wrong. I have seen in the past that you have compared this price to MMORPGS, and though I know this is but one aspect of many others provided by the DDI, playing once for free a month doesn't truly seem to equate to a fair experience. Once a week perhaps would have been more fair in my mind.

That being said I am also coming from the perspective of one of those "family all plays together" kind of homes and my players are on my bill. I have seen past post about being able to run as many characters as I want on the gametable, so technically I can run everyone, but I guess part of the fun was allowing everyone to control their own character as they do with real minis. Maybe something will change later, so I will hold my judgement and attempt to work around any issues with the hope that those in my kind of situation will get more of break sometime in the future.
#10
ericr42
Jun 02, 2008 0:02:57
Yep. There is supposed to be a waiting area where DMs can post ads for players needed and open games and such.

Thanks for the prompt response! I will be giving D&Di a shot. Since it has been so long since I last played (like 25 years), I guess I am back to being a newbie. I hope that does not present a problem

- Eric
#11
Feeroper
Jun 02, 2008 23:54:28 Like EricR42, I am also going to give D&Di a shot, due to not being able to find a group in my area. I played AD&D 2nd edition when I was younger, and my old gaming freinds are no longer gaming either, partially due to us scattering to the 4 winds. I think this will be a great way for someone like me to be brought back into the fold, especially with a new edition.
#12
MacPharlan
Jun 03, 2008 18:24:47
That being said I am also coming from the perspective of one of those "family all plays together" kind of homes and my players are on my bill. I have seen past post about being able to run as many characters as I want on the gametable, so technically I can run everyone, but I guess part of the fun was allowing everyone to control their own character as they do with real minis. Maybe something will change later, so I will hold my judgement and attempt to work around any issues with the hope that those in my kind of situation will get more of break sometime in the future.

I am in the same boat. I play with my three kids, eleven and under. My oldest has been saving up to get an account, but I just realized I misread (or it changed) the $10/month price. I was thinking it was a 6 month subscription not a 12; no way he is going to be able to pay (nor would I want him to) $120 up front, that is to big of a commitment for an eleven year old, but so is $15 a month, especially only playing 1-2x a month.

Their are several reasons we want to use the table, one, we want to have my brother and his kids join our game and 2, I like the idea of using a computer to access the table and have the kids move their minis around (they enjoy the monsters and minis the most), projecting to the TV.

If we can get away with one account with game passes that will work, but I am bummed that they are charging so much and that we have to pay extra to get the 3d stuff (you know the kids will want it). I don't understand the high price and yet does not include everything.

Oh well, still waiting for the official announcement, and hoping they will wise up.
#13
Kentinal
Jun 03, 2008 19:49:44 FWIW it does not go full pay, at least as I understand it, until all tools are in place. There was some indication a reduced fee might be expected to be paid soon for the less then planed full service.

Yes they talk about play passes that might make it posible for one family to play with one account, however how many included passes will be provided, nor how much additional 24 hour passes will cost.

Official announcement is what we all are waiting for, about this and other things.
#14
snarky_monkey
Jun 03, 2008 21:07:04
Thanks for the prompt response! I will be giving D&Di a shot. Since it has been so long since I last played (like 25 years), I guess I am back to being a newbie. I hope that does not present a problem

- Eric

Your welcome, and from what I understand if you can forget everything you knew about D&D mechanics, especially if you've played 3.5, your better off with 4e since it's a dramatic simplification. I personally, as a DM, am thrilled since the easier the run the more time I can put into the RP and story.
#15
steerpike7
Jun 04, 2008 11:04:46 I think the OP makes the point that also troubles me the most. I don't have a problem subscribing to DDI. I think it will be useful and I'm looking forward to it. The main problem is, none of my players are going to subscribe. There is one who could probably be talked into it, but that's about it. The rest - no. I doubt the guest passes you get in a month subscription are going to be enough to let me use DDI with my players for our sessions that month. What the analysis comes down to, then, is whether I will subscribe if my players don't. Probably not. The players (who don't DM) just don't see the same value in it as I do, and aren't going to pay $15 a month to be a part of it.

I suppose the occasional pick up game with people elsewhere on the net could be cool from time to time, but honestly unless there is some player pricing I don't think I'll a part of DDI. And this isn't a complaint to try and get a lower cost for myself - I'm more than willing to play the $15 bucks a month. But if none of the players are...
#16
JGMac
Jun 04, 2008 13:14:25 I also agree with the OP. $15 a month is fine for a DM who will use the tools fairly frequently. But for players who will play once or twice a month $15 or even $10 is pretty expensive.

Basically, there are cheaper alternatives out there that provide almost the same thing for much less money.

I think if WotC were smart they would lower the price on this and hope to draw a whole pile of people into it. I think the lower price would be balanced out by the sheer volume of people subscribing. Of course, all of this is dependent on the product not sucking.

Just my thoughts.
#17
darth_duane
Jun 04, 2008 13:20:08 Comparing it to a MMO is somewhat unfair. With an MMO a person can login and get in some play time any time of the day on any given day they want. If they want to play 8 hours a day they can, and many do.

With DDI unless you have a truly dedicated DM the best most players are going to get is one session a week. Sure they could play pick up games, but most people aren't going to. So the bang for your buck compared to a MMO is pretty poor.

I love the idea of the virtual table, and would certainly mkae use of it from time to time but not at this cost. If there were simply a piece of software that cost 60 bucks that I could use all the same tools and players could buy it and connect up similar to a non MMO PC game then I could certainly see all my players doing that.

I understand the profits that MMO's make are rediculous and it's pretty hard to avoid the temptation to go that way, but I think WOTC is overestimating the value of this service. Perhaps I am in the minority, and if so more power to them. I know however my regular play groups (About 12 people) wont be signing up at this price point.
#18
fobok
Jun 04, 2008 15:03:02
I also agree with the OP. $15 a month is fine for a DM who will use the tools fairly frequently. But for players who will play once or twice a month $15 or even $10 is pretty expensive.

A) How much does each player you play with spend on gas and snacks for local games every month?

B) Why don't the players just buy day-passes?
#19
MacPharlan
Jun 04, 2008 20:36:03
A) How much does each player you play with spend on gas and snacks for local games every month?

B) Why don't the players just buy day-passes?

For 1, the DM most likely will already have the books (I know I do), and they will be expected to fork over the cost for the 3d minis (why would users care?). Tagging on anther $15 a month is not very attractive in my mind. I'd rather see a flat fee or something like $5 a month, but not $15, and definitely not charge extra for minis.

Number 2, snacks and gas, depends on your group. My group is my 3 kids and if we can make the table work my brother and his two, so no more snacks/gas than normal.
#20
omnusi
Jun 04, 2008 21:22:15 After trying Neverwinter Nights' capabilities to "run a virtual game", I remain hesitantly optimistic that the technology is there to do this well but the execution could require a bit of a curve to implement. I wish a person could pick-and-choose their utilities, as I was a subscriber to Dragon and would like to continue that, but I'm not as interested in Dungeon's content and most of the other tools don't interest me all that much. If I could just use the virtual table and get Dragon magazine content for a reduced sum, I'd be content. Oh, well.

So sayeth Omnus.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dustin_000 May 27, 2008 23:48:33	If I understand where D&Di is going, the $15/mo fee gets you (when it's all up): Dragon Magazine Online Dungeon Magazine Online the Character creator/picture/archiver thingy Rules encyclopedia access The online gaming table As a DM that constantly creates new stuff the monthly service sounds like something I might be willing to pay for. I have a group of a dozen players and 2 other DMs, none of which will use much beyond "draw my character", so I doubt they'll subscribe. And if they're not there, I don't see much point in joining either. I simply can't imagine what players that just show up with a character sheet would want online that they'd be willing to pay $15/mo for. Oh, wait, 1 thing: you live in Nowhere Colorado with nobody else to play with for 100 miles. Am I the only DM thinking this is what would happen?
#2 WolfStar76 May 28, 2008 13:46:32	If I understand where D&Di is going, the $15/mo fee gets you (when it's all up): Dragon Magazine Online Dungeon Magazine Online the Character creator/picture/archiver thingy Rules encyclopedia access The online gaming table As a DM that constantly creates new stuff the monthly service sounds like something I might be willing to pay for. I have a group of a dozen players and 2 other DMs, none of which will use much beyond "draw my character", so I doubt they'll subscribe. And if they're not there, I don't see much point in joining either. I simply can't imagine what players that just show up with a character sheet would want online that they'd be willing to pay $15/mo for. Oh, wait, 1 thing: you live in Nowhere Colorado with nobody else to play with for 100 miles. Am I the only DM thinking this is what would happen? There's also an encounter creator, and a mapmaker, but you've got the gist of it. A monthly subscription, we're told, will include "a number of 24-hour 'guest passes' ". These could be doled out to your players to use to join games if they don't want to subscribe for themselves. Additional passes will be available for sale as well, I believe. So they wouldn't need a monthly subscription if they only want to play a couple times a month.
#3 dustin_000 Jun 01, 2008 12:11:17	If they had a "Players" option that had a reduced functionality set for $40/year, I could see buying multiple friends of mine that as a Christmas/birthday gift annually. WotC could be getting $200 a year from me with that. And from time to time my players talk about being a DM -- give them a toolset/helping hand and they could maybe score somebody else upgrading to DM access.
#4 Tinalas Jun 01, 2008 16:56:56	I am seperated from my gaming group by 16 hours... This would be awesome for me.... I have been unable to find a gaming group here south of Miami.
#5 ericr42 Jun 01, 2008 20:46:00	I am actually really curious about D&Di. I haven't played D&D since I was a kid (AD&D in the early 1980s). I always liked D&D, but unfortunately, my friends stopped playing. MMORPGs never quite cut it for me. I would love to play, but I don't know anyone who is interested. Another factor that makes playing for me difficult is that I am married with two young children. The upshot is that I would only be able to play after the kids went to bed. This is the time I would normally either watch tv or play an MMORPG. So, for me the idea of playing a game like D&D over the internet has a lot of appeal, even with a subscription fee. I imagine that with the addition of a new ruleset, it is also a good time to start. Any idea if D&Di will have a feature that will help people like me find groups to join? - Eric
#6 snarky_monkey Jun 01, 2008 21:21:23	There's also an encounter creator, and a mapmaker, but you've got the gist of it. A monthly subscription, we're told, will include "a number of 24-hour 'guest passes' ". These could be doled out to your players to use to join games if they don't want to subscribe for themselves. Additional passes will be available for sale as well, I believe. So they wouldn't need a monthly subscription if they only want to play a couple times a month. So far the only problem I am seeing with the passes is that it's 24 hours from activation. So basically you get, on the average, one session, MAYBE two or a large marathon session. That doesn't include any outages or problems that may come up after you buy the pass on yours or WotC's end.
#7 snarky_monkey Jun 01, 2008 21:22:41	Any idea if D&Di will have a feature that will help people like me find groups to join? Yep. There is supposed to be a waiting area where DMs can post ads for players needed and open games and such.
#8 wotc_dm Jun 01, 2008 22:01:05	So far the only problem I am seeing with the passes is that it's 24 hours from activation. So basically you get, on the average, one session, MAYBE two or a large marathon session. That doesn't include any outages or problems that may come up after you buy the pass on yours or WotC's end. The basic design for Guest passes is that One Guest pass is designed to allow to play in One game session. To accomodate various possible random factors (server outage is one of those, but definitely not the only thing that can happen.. for example, it is also possible that a DM starts a session and has to stop it after a few minutes for personal reasons, after his players have used up their guest passes). We have established this 24 hour window to account for these various cases that can happen and can't be foreseen, and allow the player that had planned for some game time to find other games sessions and be able to play after using a Guest Pass.
#9 snarky_monkey Jun 01, 2008 22:32:40	The basic design for Guest passes is that One Guest pass is designed to allow to play in One game session. To accomodate various possible random factors (server outage is one of those, but definitely not the only thing that can happen.. for example, it is also possible that a DM starts a session and has to stop it after a few minutes for personal reasons, after his players have used up their guest passes). We have established this 24 hour window to account for these various cases that can happen and can't be foreseen, and allow the player that had planned for some game time to find other games sessions and be able to play after using a Guest Pass. Thank you again for answering my concerns. That seems like a logical solution for those kind of problems. Still, the idea that the best I, as a DM, is going to be able to do is just once a month, assuming I want to play with just my own players, is tough. I know this assumes that none of my players will be buying a subscription or anymore guest passes, but still seems a bit wrong. I have seen in the past that you have compared this price to MMORPGS, and though I know this is but one aspect of many others provided by the DDI, playing once for free a month doesn't truly seem to equate to a fair experience. Once a week perhaps would have been more fair in my mind. That being said I am also coming from the perspective of one of those "family all plays together" kind of homes and my players are on my bill. I have seen past post about being able to run as many characters as I want on the gametable, so technically I can run everyone, but I guess part of the fun was allowing everyone to control their own character as they do with real minis. Maybe something will change later, so I will hold my judgement and attempt to work around any issues with the hope that those in my kind of situation will get more of break sometime in the future.
#10 ericr42 Jun 02, 2008 0:02:57	Yep. There is supposed to be a waiting area where DMs can post ads for players needed and open games and such. Thanks for the prompt response! I will be giving D&Di a shot. Since it has been so long since I last played (like 25 years), I guess I am back to being a newbie. I hope that does not present a problem - Eric
#11 Feeroper Jun 02, 2008 23:54:28	Like EricR42, I am also going to give D&Di a shot, due to not being able to find a group in my area. I played AD&D 2nd edition when I was younger, and my old gaming freinds are no longer gaming either, partially due to us scattering to the 4 winds. I think this will be a great way for someone like me to be brought back into the fold, especially with a new edition.
#12 MacPharlan Jun 03, 2008 18:24:47	That being said I am also coming from the perspective of one of those "family all plays together" kind of homes and my players are on my bill. I have seen past post about being able to run as many characters as I want on the gametable, so technically I can run everyone, but I guess part of the fun was allowing everyone to control their own character as they do with real minis. Maybe something will change later, so I will hold my judgement and attempt to work around any issues with the hope that those in my kind of situation will get more of break sometime in the future. I am in the same boat. I play with my three kids, eleven and under. My oldest has been saving up to get an account, but I just realized I misread (or it changed) the $10/month price. I was thinking it was a 6 month subscription not a 12; no way he is going to be able to pay (nor would I want him to) $120 up front, that is to big of a commitment for an eleven year old, but so is $15 a month, especially only playing 1-2x a month. Their are several reasons we want to use the table, one, we want to have my brother and his kids join our game and 2, I like the idea of using a computer to access the table and have the kids move their minis around (they enjoy the monsters and minis the most), projecting to the TV. If we can get away with one account with game passes that will work, but I am bummed that they are charging so much and that we have to pay extra to get the 3d stuff (you know the kids will want it). I don't understand the high price and yet does not include everything. Oh well, still waiting for the official announcement, and hoping they will wise up.
#13 Kentinal Jun 03, 2008 19:49:44	FWIW it does not go full pay, at least as I understand it, until all tools are in place. There was some indication a reduced fee might be expected to be paid soon for the less then planed full service. Yes they talk about play passes that might make it posible for one family to play with one account, however how many included passes will be provided, nor how much additional 24 hour passes will cost. Official announcement is what we all are waiting for, about this and other things.
#14 snarky_monkey Jun 03, 2008 21:07:04	Thanks for the prompt response! I will be giving D&Di a shot. Since it has been so long since I last played (like 25 years), I guess I am back to being a newbie. I hope that does not present a problem - Eric Your welcome, and from what I understand if you can forget everything you knew about D&D mechanics, especially if you've played 3.5, your better off with 4e since it's a dramatic simplification. I personally, as a DM, am thrilled since the easier the run the more time I can put into the RP and story.
#15 steerpike7 Jun 04, 2008 11:04:46	I think the OP makes the point that also troubles me the most. I don't have a problem subscribing to DDI. I think it will be useful and I'm looking forward to it. The main problem is, none of my players are going to subscribe. There is one who could probably be talked into it, but that's about it. The rest - no. I doubt the guest passes you get in a month subscription are going to be enough to let me use DDI with my players for our sessions that month. What the analysis comes down to, then, is whether I will subscribe if my players don't. Probably not. The players (who don't DM) just don't see the same value in it as I do, and aren't going to pay $15 a month to be a part of it. I suppose the occasional pick up game with people elsewhere on the net could be cool from time to time, but honestly unless there is some player pricing I don't think I'll a part of DDI. And this isn't a complaint to try and get a lower cost for myself - I'm more than willing to play the $15 bucks a month. But if none of the players are...
#16 JGMac Jun 04, 2008 13:14:25	I also agree with the OP. $15 a month is fine for a DM who will use the tools fairly frequently. But for players who will play once or twice a month $15 or even $10 is pretty expensive. Basically, there are cheaper alternatives out there that provide almost the same thing for much less money. I think if WotC were smart they would lower the price on this and hope to draw a whole pile of people into it. I think the lower price would be balanced out by the sheer volume of people subscribing. Of course, all of this is dependent on the product not sucking. Just my thoughts.
#17 darth_duane Jun 04, 2008 13:20:08	Comparing it to a MMO is somewhat unfair. With an MMO a person can login and get in some play time any time of the day on any given day they want. If they want to play 8 hours a day they can, and many do. With DDI unless you have a truly dedicated DM the best most players are going to get is one session a week. Sure they could play pick up games, but most people aren't going to. So the bang for your buck compared to a MMO is pretty poor. I love the idea of the virtual table, and would certainly mkae use of it from time to time but not at this cost. If there were simply a piece of software that cost 60 bucks that I could use all the same tools and players could buy it and connect up similar to a non MMO PC game then I could certainly see all my players doing that. I understand the profits that MMO's make are rediculous and it's pretty hard to avoid the temptation to go that way, but I think WOTC is overestimating the value of this service. Perhaps I am in the minority, and if so more power to them. I know however my regular play groups (About 12 people) wont be signing up at this price point.
#18 fobok Jun 04, 2008 15:03:02	I also agree with the OP. $15 a month is fine for a DM who will use the tools fairly frequently. But for players who will play once or twice a month $15 or even $10 is pretty expensive. A) How much does each player you play with spend on gas and snacks for local games every month? B) Why don't the players just buy day-passes?
#19 MacPharlan Jun 04, 2008 20:36:03	A) How much does each player you play with spend on gas and snacks for local games every month? B) Why don't the players just buy day-passes? For 1, the DM most likely will already have the books (I know I do), and they will be expected to fork over the cost for the 3d minis (why would users care?). Tagging on anther $15 a month is not very attractive in my mind. I'd rather see a flat fee or something like $5 a month, but not $15, and definitely not charge extra for minis. Number 2, snacks and gas, depends on your group. My group is my 3 kids and if we can make the table work my brother and his two, so no more snacks/gas than normal.
#20 omnusi Jun 04, 2008 21:22:15	After trying Neverwinter Nights' capabilities to "run a virtual game", I remain hesitantly optimistic that the technology is there to do this well but the execution could require a bit of a curve to implement. I wish a person could pick-and-choose their utilities, as I was a subscriber to Dragon and would like to continue that, but I'm not as interested in Dungeon's content and most of the other tools don't interest me all that much. If I could just use the virtual table and get Dragon magazine content for a reduced sum, I'd be content. Oh, well. So sayeth Omnus.