Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 chfoster Mar 02, 2011 14:09:56	I'm confused about what the "cards" are telling me in CB. I've got a 3rd level battlemind w/ Valenar Weapons Training, a Shielding Blade Scimitar and a CON of 20 (+5). Most attack cards show the damage as 1d8+8. However, Vicious Cobra Strike still only shows the damage as 5 (not 8) - using just the CON bonus. Likewise, Steel Unity Attack shows the weapon at the top of the card as 1d8+8 but in the Hit section below shows only 2[W]+CON (+5). My question is: it seems usually the CB calculated the to hit and damage correctly, but in some cases it seems not to. Am I confused and Vicious Cobra Strike and Steel Unity Attack really only do +5? Alternatively, any advice on how do I know when to disbelieve the CB damage?
#2 JonAult Mar 03, 2011 0:04:11	I think the damage listed in the Hit section is just a generic description; it isn't customized for the weapon you happen to have equipped. I see the same thing on my characters - the Hit section doesn't include things like the bonus from a +1 magic weapon, for instance, but the damage listed at the top of the card does. I generally ignore the damage portion of the Hit section, except in extraordinary circumstances like switching weapons mid-game.
#3 thespaceinvader Mar 03, 2011 3:17:16	For VCS, yes - it does CON mod damage, with 1[W] extra damage vs a single target.  RAW, I believe this means it needs a specific exception for all your other mods to apply, because it doesn't have a damage roll.  It has extra damage. For Steel unity Attack, it's wrong.
#4 chfoster Mar 03, 2011 18:22:33	For VCS, yes - it does CON mod damage, with 1[W] extra damage vs a single target.  RAW, I believe this means it needs a specific exception for all your other mods to apply, because it doesn't have a damage roll.  It has extra damage. For Steel unity Attack, it's wrong. This is interesting. If I read your right, the idea is that if you roll for damage, the modifiers apply. If damage is fixed, modifiers don't apply. That makes sense and I went back to the PHB and RC to re-read those sections. I don't see where that's stated in the RAW. What I see is that the modifiers apply to "weapons damage," nothing about fixed damage at all.
#5 shuntsbe Mar 19, 2011 18:57:11	For VCS, yes - it does CON mod damage, with 1[W] extra damage vs a single target.  RAW, I believe this means it needs a specific exception for all your other mods to apply, because it doesn't have a damage roll.  It has extra damage. This is interesting. If I read your right, the idea is that if you roll for damage, the modifiers apply. If damage is fixed, modifiers don't apply. That makes sense and I went back to the PHB and RC to re-read those sections. I don't see where that's stated in the RAW. What I see is that the modifiers apply to "weapons damage," nothing about fixed damage at all.  Damage and Damage Roll are different. Most static bonuses only apply to a Damage Roll. www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/gl...
#6 chfoster Mar 19, 2011 23:03:20	For VCS, yes - it does CON mod damage, with 1[W] extra damage vs a single target.  RAW, I believe this means it needs a specific exception for all your other mods to apply, because it doesn't have a damage roll.  It has extra damage. This is interesting. If I read your right, the idea is that if you roll for damage, the modifiers apply. If damage is fixed, modifiers don't apply. That makes sense and I went back to the PHB and RC to re-read those sections. I don't see where that's stated in the RAW. What I see is that the modifiers apply to "weapons damage," nothing about fixed damage at all.  Damage and Damage Roll are different. Most static bonuses only apply to a Damage Roll. www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/gl... Hi! I don't see where the compendium makes the distinction either. Your link is to "damage roll" but there's no equivalent "damage" entry. It doesn't really clarify this question, afikt. I still don't see where this is stated in the RAW. Help, please?
#7 salla Mar 22, 2011 13:37:49	It doesn't have to be stated RAW because it's basic English.  If you aren't rolling anything, it's not a damage roll, and anything that affects damage rolls doesn't apply.
#8 chfoster Mar 23, 2011 19:00:12	It doesn't have to be stated RAW because it's basic English.  If you aren't rolling anything, it's not a damage roll, and anything that affects damage rolls doesn't apply. I hear you and maybe I sound like I'm deliberately disagreeing, trolling, whatever. I'm not, I'm just trying to find an answer that makes sense to me. I'm not sure I'm persuaded by your logic tho. In looking over PHB1 (and 3), I didn't see any powers that just do damage. I'm not saying they're not there, but they must be relatively scarce (for fighters and battleminds, anyway). VCS is PP, six months later than PHB3. I'm thinking when they wrote the definition that way, they weren't thinking about weapons damage that wasn't rolled for. Not sure, but that make sense absent other info. Let's look at VCS. It does CON damage but augments to 1W + CON. Does it make sense that I get my enhancement bonus if I spend the power point, but not if I use the same power unaugmened? Not to me. Here's what I am starting to think: VCS has the Weapons keyword. Damage dealing attacks get increased by weapons enhancements if the power has the weapons keyword (roll or no roll). That seems to me to be entirely consistent with the whole implement/weapon setup. Thoughts?