Yes I know I can go on eBay and pay $80 for a copy of Dark Legacy of Evard, this is something I just cannot afford. Not only that, but what makes this more odious is that the person selling it is one of those FLGS owners who ordered more than they needed just so they could make a killing on eBay...all on WotC's dime. Or I can try to find a poor quality, scanned PDF online, if someone decides to make it available.
My proposal to WotC is this. Keep giving the Encounters DMs their "payment" for the great job they do promoting your product, but throw us DDi subscribers a bone too! Encounters DMs get physical copies of the adventure, maps, pogs, character cards, and reward cards. Instead of that, give us high quality PDFs of them at some time after the season has ended. It still makes the physical copy that the DMs recieve special, but it makes sure those of us who don't want to, or don't need to attend Encounters Wednesdays, don't feel left out in the cold.
As always, no promises, etc, etc, etc.
As someone who has run the past 3 encounters seasons I find it hard to believe that they would really be useful to you. The adventures are designed to some very serious constraints that DMs with a consistent group might not want to deal with. In keeping with the goals of the program the encounters are generally very straightforward, the NPC interaction is constrained. You have to be ready on any given week to have a new, random set of PCs in the party with everything from super optimized strikers to new players rolling their first D20. I have to commend the writers at wotc for keeping things interesting given the constraints they deal with, but the constraints are there. In the end you are right it wouldn't hurt anything to put soft copies under DDI but I think you would be disappointed.
I do like the poster maps and have reused those in other instances, but I thought wotc announced map packs at gencon.
dsowa and Blastfemur,
Mainly I always like to have new material to cannibalize, plus from what I have seen these adventures could be great launching points for entire campaigns. In addition if they included all the materials in the PDF format, I wouldn't have a problem printing off the maps and taping them together if one of them suited my needs. And besides even the constrained format you speak of tells a story about the area. The Nentir Vale and it's world has been sparsely detailed and the Gazetteer that was planned was scrapped. The magazine articles aren't all that I'd hoped they'd be, so any other place I can glean detail from is a fantastic resource for me. Plus I am not just talking about the Encounters Adventures themselves, but DM rewards like The Village of Hommlet, Tomb of Horrors, and The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan.
Regards,
Mainly I always like to have new material to cannibalize
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm meeaaaat! That's my favorite DM pasttime. Fortunately for me though, I'm DMing Encounters this season. The Neverwinter module is pretty sweet and I am really looking forward to Tamoachan.
If I didn't have my own library to think about, I'd be happy to donate it, Kalex.
Pretty please?
To the OP I do not support this idea.
First, personally, I get very little for being a GM. At least materially. What I do get is something no one else gets. That’s a form of recognition for my service since season one. Just giving it away diminishes my reward. I put in a lot of hours to this program so I kind of like having something no one else gets.
Second, and this is the most important, it is bad for stores to give these adventures away. Let’s say WoTC waits six months or a year to release them. Once they do, and the pump is primed, people will get adventures on a delay program and won’t have to go into the store to play them. That goes against the core tenet of the program: get butts in the seats of local game stores.
I do recommend if you have the time find a store, run some games, and support the program. It is very rewarding in general both personally and for the stores WoTC supports.
YMMV
First, personally, I get very little for being a GM. At least materially. What I do get is something no one else gets. That’s a form of recognition for my service since season one. Just giving it away diminishes my reward. I put in a lot of hours to this program so I kind of like having something no one else gets.Second, and this is the most important, it is bad for stores to give these adventures away. Let’s say WoTC waits six months or a year to release them. Once they do, and the pump is primed, people will get adventures on a delay program and won’t have to go into the store to play them. That goes against the core tenet of the program: get butts in the seats of local game stores.
I do recommend if you have the time find a store, run some games, and support the program. It is very rewarding in general both personally and for the stores WoTC supports.
YMMV
Sounds to me like you're in it for the wrong reasons. Were I a teen or young adult again with all the time in the world I would do this for no reward, the DMing and promotion of my hobby would be reward enough.
The core tenet of the program seems to be more getting new players (butts) in the seats, not established players. It also seems geard toward much younger players. At 44 years old, I have little interested in playing with a bunch of kids I don't know. And with an established group, the current membership of which has been stable for 11 years, I have no time after preparing for the campaign I DM, and working on my character for the campaign I play in.
Nor do I have the time on a week night to drive nearly an hour in both directions to go to the nearest Encounters game.
If WotC were writing adventures that were extremely generic in nature that for instance were not specifically set in the Nentir Vale, or that didn't deal with establishing core lore like the legacy of Evard I would care less about getting my hands on the adventures, but WotC currently is putting out this type of material and then thumbing their noses (in effect) as those people who are willing to even pay for the content, but have no desire and/or ability to play in Encounters.
As I have said in the past. Were it not for the cancellation of the Nentir Vale Gazetteer I would be far less likely to care about the Encounters material set there. However, that is not the case, and the magazine articles describing the world have yet to give me anything useful about the actual Nentir Vale. They are simply not a replacement for a Gazetteer detailing the area.
What do I get for my running the game at the store? From WotC? I am getting the Hidden Shrine, and you could to if all you did was go and run one session of D&D encounters this month. They promoted that from the moment they announced the DM reward. If you want it for "free" as a DDI subscriber that cheapens it for everyone else who is making the time to run this game.
Yes I do get an incentive from the store I run Encounters at, but so would anyone else who chose to run games there.
You do not want to play with kids you do not know? Then you are a gamer who is not doing anything to help introduce new blood to the hobby and I do not feel sorry for you that you feel it is not worth your time to invest 2-3 hours a week doing something fun. You do not deserve it. If you really felt that in the past you would do this for free and not expect anything back then, now you want it for Free??? They do not need to give us anything. They do not need to give you anything just because you are raising a stink over it.
I would still do this just to get the adventure even though I only use the maps and maybe a statblock or two.
I work a full time gig, I have an established group, and manage to work in a part time job somewhere in there as well
These adventures are cool and all but the amount of lore packed in them is tied to the adventure, does not go into the history of the Vale, and you really need to look hard for any reference to the vale at all. I think the first session mentions they party is traveling back to Fallcrest from the city of Sarthel.
You have this idea these adventures are a wealth of information for the lore of Nentier Vale, I agree with you the loss of the Gazzettier upset me to no end, but these adventures do not have this wealth of lore you seem to think they do.
Also I get a lot of established players at the store. nearly half of the 30 people who show up play D&D outside of Encounters. 5 of them rotate in and out of my Saturday game from time to time.
I will treasure my Hidden Shrine adventure when I get it, I worked hard to get it. So will most of the other DM's out there who do this week in and week out.
I've read the adventures, and judged them useful. I don't seem to think anything. I have scanned PDFs of KotB, and MotPB. DLoE is apparently not yet available this way. And I am willing to pay extra for high quality (non-scanned) PDFs from WotC. WotC has previously rejected that scenario seemingly because that made the availability too broad. My suggestion still limits the availability to DDi subscribers and Encounters DMs. I am pretty appalled by the extreme selfishness of the Encounters DMs who have posted here (with the exception of Jharii). You all make me glad I am not involved in this program.
I've read the adventures, and judged them useful. I don't seem to think anything. I have scanned PDFs of KotB, and MotPB. DLoE is apparently not yet available this way. And I am willing to pay extra for high quality (non-scanned) PDFs from WotC. WotC has previously rejected that scenario seemingly because that made the availability too broad. My suggestion still limits the availability to DDi subscribers and Encounters DMs. I am pretty appalled by the extreme selfishness of the Encounters DMs who have posted here (with the exception of Jharii). You all make me glad I am not involved in this program.
Got to agree with you here, Kalex. I would pay extra for quality PDFs of these and whilst it is easy to tell someone else they should give an amount of their time to promote the hobby, for some of us, it is simply not possible. Working hours, family commitments and the distance to my nearest store prevent me from playing or DMing Encounters at present.
I have also seen sight of the material and agree it would be incredibly useful for home use as a starting adventure for a campaign. KotB is an excellent gateway to the whole Chaos Scar setting and the Dark Sun Encounters season was designed, as I understand it, to introduce players to that setting. These are great tools for DMs to use at home so why not make them available?
For the avoidance of doubt, consider this as me adding my support to the Kalex's request.
1. Make the Encounters adventure a special edition in some way. Maybe signed by the author or some such.
2. Make the DM reward a special edition in some way, particularly if it is a module.
3. Wait 3 months after the season ends before releasing the Encounters adventure and DM reward to the public.
To add to the feeling of exclusivity that Encounters DM's desire:
1. Make the Encounters adventure a special edition in some way. Maybe signed by the author or some such.
2. Make the DM reward a special edition in some way, particularly if it is a module.
3. Wait 3 months after the season ends before releasing the Encounters adventure and DM reward to the public.
I like all of these suggestions.
I would even be willing to wait 6-12 months after they were "retired" so to speak. There's already the fact that the DMs running Encounters get these for free, and the general publick would have to pay, that right there still adds to the exclusivity of the product for those DMs.
You do not want to play with kids you do not know? Then you are a gamer who is not doing anything to help introduce new blood to the hobby and I do not feel sorry for you that you feel it is not worth your time to invest 2-3 hours a week doing something fun. You do not deserve it. If you really felt that in the past you would do this for free and not expect anything back then, now you want it for Free??? They do not need to give us anything. They do not need to give you anything just because you are raising a stink over it.
For some it is not a matter of being unwilling. I run games for my local group. I run games for my Son and nephews. I am introducing new blood to the hobby. It just so happens that I work 45-55 hours a week, my son has an active Boy Scout schedule, and I can't make it to my FLGS on Encounters night (son's Scout Meetings), and the rest of the week is taken up with son's golf lessons, work, weekly tabletop game, 2 weekly VT games. throw in the fact that my FLGS is not the closest thing there is.
I would love to get out and run Encounters for people. But, I personally, am unable due to a collection of issues. To say I don't deserve it is rather pompous. I am not asking for it for free, like you seem to suggest. I am asking for the ability to purchase it, to give WOTC some of my hard earned dollars, as I think others were asking the same. 6 months later, any particular product is no longer bringing new blood into the game stores, but it could be bringing Wizards some new cash and making a lot of people who, for whatever reasons, cannot participate in their DM program.
Would just be nice, is all.
To add to the feeling of exclusivity that Encounters DM's desire:
1. Make the Encounters adventure a special edition in some way. Maybe signed by the author or some such.
2. Make the DM reward a special edition in some way, particularly if it is a module.
3. Wait 3 months after the season ends before releasing the Encounters adventure and DM reward to the public.
This +1.
Although I've always wondered why the reward has to be an exclusive. When I was tossing around the idea of DMing back during the earlier seasons I'd thought that it would be cool to get a number of D&D minis as a reward. What DM can't use more minis? I have a collection of several thousand, but still find myself looking for more of this or that mini, or finding that I am missing something entirely from the collection. Even now with minis out of the picture (only for the time being, I hope), getting a couple of sheets of monster pogs might be just the thing a lot of DMs would love. Or having a small catalog of past products available for DMs to choose from kind of the way a lot of companies do for anniversary rewards for employees, giving the individual DM a little choice about what they get.
I just think exclusive rewards are a sure fire way to piss off the vast majority of WotC customers, although the special edition idea has merit too, and of course the difference between a physical product and a PDF accomplishes the same thing.
For some it is not a matter of being unwilling. I run games for my local group. I run games for my Son and nephews. I am introducing new blood to the hobby. It just so happens that I work 45-55 hours a week, my son has an active Boy Scout schedule, and I can't make it to my FLGS on Encounters night (son's Scout Meetings), and the rest of the week is taken up with son's golf lessons, work, weekly tabletop game, 2 weekly VT games. throw in the fact that my FLGS is not the closest thing there is.
I would love to get out and run Encounters for people. But, I personally, am unable due to a collection of issues. To say I don't deserve it is rather pompous. I am not asking for it for free, like you seem to suggest. I am asking for the ability to purchase it, to give WOTC some of my hard earned dollars, as I think others were asking the same. 6 months later, any particular product is no longer bringing new blood into the game stores, but it could be bringing Wizards some new cash and making a lot of people who, for whatever reasons, cannot participate in their DM program.
Would just be nice, is all.
Yes. To assume we are not bringing new blood into the game is a false assumption. My players' children have been players in our sessions and will definitely be a new generation of gamers.
As I mentioned in my post to Jharii above I actually kicked around the idea of DMing Encounters a few seasons back, but decided that I didn't have the time in my schedule. With getting married in a couple of weeks filling my plate right now there is no way I could do so at this point either. Besides my fiance is more than accomodating with the time I already spend on D&D. I don't think it would be fair to spend more time away from her than I already do.
I pretty much agree with everything you say.
Even now with minis out of the picture (only for the time being, I hope)
Wizards announced Skirmishes and their new minis that we be offered in non-random packaging.
Wizards announced Skirmishes and their new minis that we be offered in non-random packaging.
Congratulations, Kalex!
Do you have link to anything about Skirmishes perhaps? Do you know if they will be the same pre-painted minis as the former product? I would absolutely love that! Especially if they have some new sculpts too! I heard about a Dragon Collector Set coming out this fall, like the Beholders last fall, but haven't seen anything official yet.
Thanks man!
Do you have link to anything about Skirmishes perhaps? Do you know if they will be the same pre-painted minis as the former product? I would absolutely love that! Especially if they have some new sculpts too! I heard about a Dragon Collector Set coming out this fall, like the Beholders last fall, but haven't seen anything official yet.
Thanks man!
It was announced at GenCon. People are talking a bit about it here. I believe that they are going to be new minis, but I don't know for certain, and they also go along with the new Skirmishes minis game that they will be releasing.
Also, Paizo has a new line of pre-painted minis they are releasing beginning at the end of September. You could also do a Google search to see some more examples.
Reaper's Legendary Encounters line is a pretty nice inclusion to pre-painted minis market as well.
With getting married in a couple of weeks filling my plate right now there is no way I could do so at this point either.
Congratulations!
Thanks Agonar!
So not being willing to play with a bunch of kids you don't know somehow means you're less of a legitimate D&D player? Please. I'm a customer, and I have contributed to D&D as a business for years by buying many D&D products. But I'm also 34 years old, and like Kalex, have absolutely no desire to play with a bunch of teenagers I don't know. No, I don't proselytize for D&D in the community -- this is a game, not charity work or missionary service. If Wizards wants to alienate long-time players by only making certain pieces of material available to Encounters players, that's their right, but it's a stupid business decision IMO.
My local store runs two sessions of Encounters and not one single participant is under 18. Most are between 25-35. Attendance at your store may vary, but I am not sure where your absolute theory on teenagers derives from. There is no alienation going on here. It's merely a promotional event and DMs are rewarded.
My local store runs two sessions of Encounters and not one single participant is under 18. Most are between 25-35. Attendance at your store may vary, but I am not sure where your absolute theory on teenagers derives from. There is no alienation going on here. It's merely a promotional event and DMs are rewarded.
Uh, I never postulated an absolute theory. I was responding to a poster who seems to think that not spreading the gospel of D&D amongst the younger generation means that you're a bad D&D gamer, or that you somehow deserve to be excluded from certain services. That's nonsense. Regardless of the age demographic at one's local store -- and where I live it tends to be heavy on the under-20 types -- I'm a paying customer who supports D&D with my dollars. Growing the game is Wizards' job, not mine.
I was responding to a poster who seems to think that not spreading the gospel of D&D amongst the younger generation means that you're a bad D&D gamer
Quoting would have eliminated any confusion, but thank you for clarifying.
Growing the game is Wizards' job, not mine.
And they have done exactly that with the Encounters events. Yet Encounters needs DMs to run the game, and the DMs are rewarded for doing so.
Yet Encounters needs DMs to run the game, and the DMs are rewarded for doing so.
And rightly so, but nowhere in the definition of the word reward will you find the word exclusive. With a dearth of available Nentir Vale lore this information should be made available. Encounters DMs get it for free, as payment for their service. I totally disagree that it also needs to be exclusive. Make it available for a price to everyone, or if some level of exclusivity is desired, make it available to DDi subscribers for a micro-transaction fee.
What I disagree with (and you have already proved you don't fall into this category) are the Encounters DMs who want to have this material for free and gloat over the rest of us with it and/or make a killing off of it on the secondary market. WotC should change their policy if for no other reason than some people are willing to pay $80 for a complete Dark Legacy of Evard Encounters kit.