DDI & Genghis Con Panel

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Cailte

Mar 29, 2009 3:57:39
Ok so Mudbunny kindly directed attention to the Genghis Con Panel that featured Andy Collins, Gwendolyn Kestrel (Freelance), and Harley Stroh (Goodman Games). The 2nd part of the panel recording has the pertinant things for those waiting imaptiently for DDI Tools information.

Listen Here

Here is my effort to transcribe the relevant portions, please listen to the original before casting stones at WotC, I may make mistakes in transcribing.

Q:When can we expect the other tools to come out.
AC:
When they are ready.

I could tell you the truth, which is that we will release them when they are ready, or I could make up a date an it would be wrong.
So, we bit off more than we could chew, no question about it, and we've said as much publically a number of times over the last few months. We had extraordinarily high hopes about what we would be able to accomplish. Many of the things were harder than we thought they were going to be.
So, ah, a few months ago we decided, you know what? Its time to focus on one at a time. Lets get this character builder out. We know its incredible, we know that when its published people are going to have fun with it.
So we are pretty happy with the character builder, but now what that means is that we are starting to look at what's next. Over the last couple of weeks there have been many, many converstations about what's next. Because we've got all these other parts that are in various stages of completion. But we're goin' to make sure that we do them in the right order, and get them out when they're ready to go. We're not goin' to start promising dates even until we're confident we are goin' to deliver them. Even with the character builder we were not promising a date until, like, the day it came out, because we didn't want to say "ok it will be out on Tuesday" and actually have it come out on Wednesday, and people go "Oooh! You lied to us!".

We're goin' to bring them out as, as quickly as we can do them right.

Q:Can you reveal to us which one is coming out next?
AC: Ah, I can't because I actually don't know, the decision hasn't been made yet. Ah the Digital folks, the Insider folks..
Audience: Problem is we don't know which one is coming next.
AC: When we are ready to make an announcement about that we will. But honestly I wouldn't expect much talk on that until, ah for, ah weeks if not months. Right? It may be Spring or even early Summer before we're ready to really confirm what's comming. Ah,


Q: Are you going to announce when you know what the next project is going to be?
AC: I honestly don't know. I'm not exactly in that loop, I focus more on the book product. Ah so I hear those guys talk but I don't know if they've made a decision on that or not yet.
GK: Now speaking as an ex-Wizard's emplyee I can also tell you that you vote with your pocket book. Money does talk in that company. Ahm if you are a big fan of Forgotten Realms, buy the Forgotten Realms product. That's the best way to ensure that the campaign setting beomes healthy. If you want to see the additional tools, subscribe, enjoy what you can right now, but if no one were to subscribe... I mean its doing well but... if no one were to subscribe to the character builder and DDI right now it wouldn't be getting future resources for the "some day I'll subscribe". Money matters to the company, vote with your pocket book. It feels so good to say things like that
#2

whitebaron

Mar 29, 2009 4:21:10
well, I will not vote with my wallet to buy things I do not want to maybe get things I do want later, for added price. Paying for the ezines should tell them that I like the ezines, nothing more.

If they assume that people not being subscribed now do not want the other tools to come out :
a) they are wrong
b) that's a risk I'm willing to take. I do NOT pay for stuff I do not need/want. This includes the ezines, char-visualizer, compendium, bonus tools. 28-29 days per month this also includes the cb.

Hopefully, someone at wotc knows that the audience for gametable is not necessarily the same that is already subscribing, and drives them further towards that goal.


also, it seems to me they have not learnt a thing about communication in the whole ddi disaster. it's not that you need to give out wholly accurate information, it's the way you present and give out information that counts most.
#3

Cailte

Mar 29, 2009 5:15:47
At heart I agree with what you are saying.

WotC should not expect people to subscribe to DDI when it isn't offering the services that they want. Subscribing in the "hope" that they will produce a product is foolish.

I also agree that they should have made a public statement a month ago of "yes we are going to continue to develop all remaining parts of DDI, and we will make further announcments about what will happen next once we have made a complete evaluation" would have been better than silence or equivication as we have had.

That said I think it is best to recognise that the words that are likely to draw the most ire come from a former employee, and they are really nothing more than a simple economic truth when dealing with a large company like Hasbro/WotC - money talks. Its certainly not a new idea, and the while it misses a number of factors about the DDI situation its fundamentally true still. We don't have to like it, but that doesn't make it less true.

So the best course in discussion is to ignore the "money talks" part and stick with the more important core information:
WotC is still evaluating DDI.
WotC is still intending to release more of the initially promised DDI material.
WotC will not make a solid comitment for some time yet.
#4

KM.549

Mar 29, 2009 6:18:06
Q:Can you reveal to us which one is coming out next?
AC: Ah, I can't because I actually don't know, the decision hasn't been made yet.

Its been about what, 2 months since WOTC put out the survey on the site to see what tool to bring out next? WOTC can't see what one is the next most popular tool that people want from a survey?

So since the character builder is done, what has the team that is working on the tools doing while WOTC decides what tool to work on next? Coming into work and sitting around? That sounds like a good plan to me.

I would have asked if they think all this silence from WOTC on DDi is good for the company.
#5

Scrotok

Mar 29, 2009 11:38:24
Cailte,

When was that Genghis Con Panel? Just so I can put statements like "weeks if not months" and "Spring or even early Summer" into perspective. Thanks!

V/R,
JP
#6

bandersnatch

Mar 29, 2009 11:49:08
Q:When can we expect the other tools to come out.
AC:
When they are ready.

I could tell you the truth, which is that we will release them when they are ready, or I could make up a date an it would be wrong.
So, we bit off more than we could chew, no question about it, and we've said as much publically a number of times over the last few months. We had extraordinarily high hopes about what we would be able to accomplish. Many of the things were harder than we thought they were going to be.
So, ah, a few months ago we decided, you know what? Its time to focus on one at a time. Lets get this character builder out. We know its incredible, we know that when its published people are going to have fun with it.
So we are pretty happy with the character builder, but now what that means is that we are starting to look at what's next. Over the last couple of weeks there have been many, many converstations about what's next. Because we've got all these other parts that are in various stages of completion. But we're goin' to make sure that we do them in the right order, and get them out when they're ready to go. We're not goin' to start promising dates even until we're confident we are goin' to deliver them. Even with the character builder we were not promising a date until, like, the day it came out, because we didn't want to say "ok it will be out on Tuesday" and actually have it come out on Wednesday, and people go "Oooh! You lied to us!".

Now, was that so hard?

Why, for Gods sake, couldn't SOMEONE from Hasbro come here and say what was said there; concise and understandable and leaving little room for interpretation.

Are they really so scared of those here that they think that no information is better than....

Ah, never mind. Sometimes, WotC is its own worst enemy.
#7

whitebaron

Mar 29, 2009 12:45:51
genghiscon xxx: February 12-15, 2009, so it is safe to assume that's the date the casts were made.


it's really sad they only rephrase the same empty words over and over, even though this time AC seems to have said a bit more than what is presented on the webpage or forums here.
#8

KM.549

Mar 29, 2009 13:08:47
I can't understand why WOTC could not just come out and say "we are still planning on working on the other tools. But we are planning our next move in that direction." All we wanted to know was if WOTC was planning on bringing out the other tools. How can WOTC think being totally silent is better then telling the public what is going on?
#9

Eldren73

Mar 29, 2009 13:31:14
Companies frequently learn from other companies in how they present information to a public initially eager to purchase their product. RPGs attract a fiercely loyal fanbase, and that puts some impressive weight on the shoulders of the RPG producers to, well, produce. I'm not so sure I would want that kind of pressure, with emotional types constantly getting upset that something didn't come out when they thought it should, and then threatening to leave, and take as many of their friends with them as they can convince.

When I first cracked open the Player's Handbook, the thing that immediately struck me was "Wow, they borrowed an awful lot from World of Warcraft. Marking? The Warlock?" When Martial Power came out, I looked at the Beastmaster Ranger and thought, "And there you have it: the Hunter."

It's cyclical, I suppose, since Blizzard borrowed so much from Dungeons & Dragons in their games (the night elves didn't come about until Warcraft III, which was out during the height of Drizzt Do'Urden's success as a literary character, and when every player and their distant cousin was doing everything they could to play a dual-scimitar-wielding drow Ranger with a Figurine of Wondrous Power: Onyx Panther).

But one thing Blizzard has always done is refuse to give a release date for a product until they know they can meet the date they give. It avoids problems, and minimizes complaints into "Wow, you guys are takin' kinda long, ain'tcha?". I'd rather just deal with a few repeats of complaints like that than deal with the outrage from having given a date which then goes by with little to no content, or even updates on when the content can be expected.

Wizards of the Coast is a company approximately the same size as Blizzard (subservient to Hasbro instead of part of Activision like Blizzard is). They have limited resources for any given piece of product. WotC is producing new iterations of the Core Rulebooks, working on new Forgotten Realms content, working on new adventure modules, power supplements for the Core Classes, prepping for Eberron's release, working on the reintroduction of a new campaign setting brought back from previous editions (I'm holding out for Planescape, personally, and given the recent article reintroducing the Mercykiller faction, it wouldn't surprise me if that's what was referred to in the latest Ampersand article), and, yes, they're working on additional modules for Dungeons & Dragons Insider.

I'm inclined to give 'em a break. They've released more digital tools for 4th Edition in a shorter span of time than Master Tools ever accomplished in 3rd Edition (WotC eventually gave up on Master Tools, and successive updates to it were coming from the same guys who made the much better software PC Gen). I have a Character Generator that works beautifully for me, I have tons of exclusive content for DDI subscribers, and combined with my rulebooks, I have everything I require to have a very satisfying 4th Edition experience.

I can wait for a few features that will provide, at best, only momentary usage for my general purposes as a player.
#10

whitebaron

Mar 29, 2009 13:53:27
But one thing Blizzard has always done is refuse to give a release date for a product until they know they can meet the date they give. It avoids problems, and minimizes complaints into "Wow, you guys are takin' kinda long, ain'tcha?". I'd rather just deal with a few repeats of complaints like that than deal with the outrage from having given a date which then goes by with little to no content, or even updates on when the content can be expected.

common misconception: complainers like us are not upset at all about not giving release dates or not giving schedules, or even missing those schedules. we are upset about being completely left in the dark. to revisit your blizzard example, what they do and what wotc does are like day and night. check http://www.starcraft2.com and compare their game preview to wotc. they give out fansite kits, are at Q&A #50, they provide demos/movies, wallpapers, content or just something to keep the mind occupied. compare this to http://www.dndinsider.com ...

another common misconception: the gametable is targetting a whole lot of people to subscribe, who would not have a game without online play. some of them are even now holding back buying rulebooks, as there's not much use in buying them without a game.
#11

rjdafoe

Mar 29, 2009 17:37:51
I admit, I only read the post. If that is their response, then I don't know what to say. I beleive the people that want a date are in the minority. The majority of us want communication.

Soneone mentioned Blizzard. I say that is exactly how WotC should handle it. Look at Blizzard, and follow what they do. The have a website devoted to their new announced games (a site separate from their main pages), they give updates, screenshots, Q&As etc. People KNOW they are working in it. And guess what, their mantra is it will be released when it is ready, and -- wait for it -- they CAN say that because they have earned it from their fans. I am sorry to tell you WotC, but you have not.

It is not just about the released product. WoW is the way it is not just because of the game, but because of the company BEHIND the game. When they say they are going to do something, they do it. Now, there are people unhappy with both the company and the game, as expected. But their sales don't lie.