WotC_Trevor;17847698 wrote:
Powers &8^]
I took the survey but it didn't ask me anything about D&D Insider. Is it because I told it I don't currently play D&D? If so, you should know that's only because I can't find a group and the D&D Insider Game Table application hasn't been released yet.
Powers &8^]
Well the poll did not appear to ask specifically about issues forum users have expressed concerns about, however did request feed back as concerns.
It is possible you telling you did not play D&D now resulted in a coding issue, after all 4th in a large part has appeared to be about recruiting new players.
Perhaps there was a system conflict, I had no problem until reaching a few questions I decided not to answer. I did answer the survey that I was not a current insider before I got to the next page. So it appears you should have been able to get pass that page to answer questions about what would make you more or less likely to sign up. Or indicate things that did not matter to your purchase decision.
Heck those that completed the survey said I was only three answers away from submitting. At this point I infer interface problem rather then not wanting to hear from non paid members.
This first survey is trying to establish a baseline among all of you based on a number of criteria. Once we have the baseline we can start to measure against something. There will be more surveys to come in the next few months that will get more specific.
It has several tracks depending on how you answer particular questions.
There are questions about D&D Insider features including open ended questions about what you would like to see but you may not see these if you go down another answer track
The demographic questions are very important and not answering them likely means your data will be tossed out of the survey. We don't use this data for any other purposes other than to establish basic customer information like 25% 18-24 year olds males play at least once per week and would play more if they had a game table
A note on the survey folks.
This first survey is trying to establish a baseline among all of you based on a number of criteria. Once we have the baseline we can start to measure against something. There will be more surveys to come in the next few months that will get more specific.
It has several tracks depending on how you answer particular questions.
There are questions about D&D Insider features including open ended questions about what you would like to see but you may not see these if you go down another answer track
The demographic questions are very important and not answering them likely means your data will be tossed out of the survey. We don't use this data for any other purposes other than to establish basic customer information like 25% 18-24 year olds males play at least once per week and would play more if they had a game table
As I replied in the other thread, for some reason this was marked already read by me.
Oh joy, make me wrong. Perhaps I should have tested the many different paths available based on my answers. I do not want to role play a poll and IMO WotC should not even consider conducting such a poll.
A note on the survey folks.
This first survey is trying to establish a baseline among all of you based on a number of criteria. Once we have the baseline we can start to measure against something. There will be more surveys to come in the next few months that will get more specific.
It has several tracks depending on how you answer particular questions.
There are questions about D&D Insider features including open ended questions about what you would like to see but you may not see these if you go down another answer track
The demographic questions are very important and not answering them likely means your data will be tossed out of the survey. We don't use this data for any other purposes other than to establish basic customer information like 25% 18-24 year olds males play at least once per week and would play more if they had a game table
Just thought I'd cross-thread my response to this post.
Worked well, I appreciate the opportunity to give some direct feedback. I hope that WotC can use the information to make some qualified decisions. One thing I noticed is that some parts of the survey seemed to reference things that were originally part of the Gleemax package (social aspects, sharing campaign info, etc) but it might be that I've just had a long day at work.
Social aspects are almost required at some level even if the blog plan failed. As far as questions to that aspect it makes sense. To gage how much or little social aspect clearly a research question. Use personal instant message program, file sharing, campaign forums and so on. Some online gamers might choose personal email, others clearly appear to be looking for a meet and greet of some kind to run a game at all, there are others that want game table to play online with friends that already have their social network established.
The replies clearly can matter as too how much effort is directed to things like voice, images, hosted pages and so on. That type of question I have no problem with.
Well, I certainly feel listened too now.
*finishes survey* Well it looked nice to me, but.....*runs to fall out shelter* I don't this is going to help with the, imo unwarranted, pessimsm that is rampant these days around here.
What are you talking about me? *wink*
Hey I do not believe any others had issues about the survey, certainly none have shared my concern about it in the forums.
Oh indeed are some concerned about DDI working as a whole, however such comments do not belong in this thread.
Just in case offers flame proof garments to ward oft the random event.
What will be, indeed will be. It is best to be prepared somewhat for the random as well as battles one decides to undertake.
Having told the survey that I am a prospective new player of 4E D&D the survey proceeded to ask me... nothing. Not a blessed thing.
Well, I certainly feel listened too now.
This clearly appears to be a bug IMO.
You might be able to try it again and say you plan to DM or some such thing. Or at least say you purchased the PHB if you got that far. Adventure paths for RP I have had some issues with an adventure path for gaining data I have a major issue with.
I got to about 23 questions, how many did you get to answer?
*finishes survey* Well it looked nice to me, but.....*runs to fall out shelter* I don't this is going to help with the, imo unwarranted, pessimsm that is rampant these days around here.
*blinks* *blinks again* unwarranted really, I mean really... they are almost a year behind schedule the schedule they led people to believe until about a month after the books were released. That's either intentionally misleading or incredibly incompetent in either case not a good way to build up faith in a product.
the survey was fine, way to late to be of any use if they actually plan on getting any work done on the tools in the next few months but I wouldn't be surprised to see them patting themselves on the back for the char builder, and take a little vacation time
*blinks* *blinks again* unwarranted really, I mean really... they are almost a year behind schedule the schedule they led people to believe until about a month after the books were released. That's either intentionally misleading or incredibly incompetent in either case not a good way to build up faith in a product.
the survey was fine, way to late to be of any use if they actually plan on getting any work done on the tools in the next few months but I wouldn't be surprised to see them patting themselves on the back for the char builder, and take a little vacation time
*counts on fingers* Hmm Jun to Feb and I still have fingers left. Not yet a year late on announced release date and I have not yet needed to count a toe, oh a purist would insist that after Mar. 6th I needed to count one toe.
The big issue is communication and offering a product people can trust.
As far as the survey goes, not counting my objection, there appears to be an issue with two other users believing their views were not even asked for.
Having told the survey that I am a prospective new player of 4E D&D the survey proceeded to ask me... nothing. Not a blessed thing.
Well, I certainly feel listened too now.
That might be a glitch.
All this answer would have done is have you skip ahead (over some of the Pen & Paper questions) to the D&Di section. I'll have research look into it in the AM
The big issue is communication and offering a product people can trust.
I totally trust the product once it's out. I just don't trust them to get it out, let alone get it out when they say they will.
I totally trust the product once it's out. I just don't trust them to get it out, let alone get it out when they say they will.
That question made me chuckle (or pair of questions I suppose). Saddly there was no "HaHaHa" option for being on time. :D
That question made me chuckle (or pair of questions I suppose). Saddly there was no "HaHaHa" option for being on time. :D
I was in shock to see that question and a couple of others.
I know they read the forums so what do they think the answer would be?
I wish I could see the true results on the answer for being timely and trusting WOTC. It should be unanimously... ZERO trust.
EK
I was in shock to see that question and a couple of others.
I know they read the forums so what do they think the answer would be?
I wish I could see the true results on the answer for being timely and trusting WOTC. It should be unanimously... ZERO trust.
EK
I wonder if they ask becuse of this thought process...I mean there are plenty of people who say they still have faith, but then we get:
It should be unanimously... ZERO trust.
for the record I voted 3...and my roommate voted 2...
I was in shock to see that question and a couple of others.
I know they read the forums so what do they think the answer would be?
They realize that the people on the forums are not representative of the population of D&D players as a whole. To make a decision based only on what the forums here (or any other forum) say would be a mistake.
I wish I could see the true results on the answer for being timely and trusting WOTC. It should be unanimously... ZERO trust.
I think I voted 4. Other than the first missed deadline for DDI, they have met all of their other deadlines. Compendium updates, posting of articles (barring 2 or 3 since the start), release of character builder, all have been on time.
They realize that the people on the forums are not representative of the population of D&D players as a whole. To make a decision based only on what the forums here (or any other forum) say would be a mistake.
This forum is representing a huge chunk of the D&D players as a whole. 4th Edition is the digital age no? They are targeting internet users and the online experience. So when this targeted group needs info, they go online and of course they come here.
Old school 1st ed and 2nd edition players could care less about the digital stuff, they like their pencils and paper and custom stuff, so if you're seeing the forum is in a uproar about something, it's a serious thing to look at cuz we are the majority of D&D players for this new digital wave.
The mistake is thinking there is a vast group of people not on this forum that are going to vote on the survey with how good everything has been running with deadlines and delayed projects.
I'm just angry with how they do things..so I know it won't be a ZERO on trusting WOTC to be on time with things but it's going to be very low.
Every Friday night my group rides me on the DDI progress cuz I promoted from day one and trusted. Thank Kord that they got the Character Builder launched it stopped a third of the verbal beatings I get about the DDI every week.
EK
I got to about 23 questions, how many did you get to answer?
It gave me about 5 over the course of a couple of pages. Demographics on the first page, then the question about whether I had played or was intending to play and then when I finished that one it went straight to "Thanks for taking the survey". I would have loved to say I had bought the PHB... because I have. I just didn't get the chance.
That might be a glitch.
All this answer would have done is have you skip ahead (over some of the Pen & Paper questions) to the D&Di section. I'll have research look into it in the AM
Thanks! In that case it seems to have been a very efficient skip. It skipped everything ;).
This forum is representing a huge chunk of the D&D players as a whole. 4th Edition is the digital age no? They are targeting internet users and the online experience. So when this targeted group needs info, they go online and of course they come here.
This is a chunk, no doubt - but I don't know if its a huge chunk. At DDXP I saw a lot of people who use DDI - few of them are people that (in my discussions) bother with the WotC forums. Some of them post on EN World, several don't go forum hopping at all.
Some only post in the RPGA forums. Some of them only visit the WotC website once a month.
The point is, just because we're a concentrated (and vocal) part of the customer base - we're not THE customer base, nor are we truly representative of that base.
Take the feedback to Digital Insider here vs the feedback at ENWorld.
Here the responce has been not unlike "the sky is falling!"
ENWorld? Reading the same DI? "New classes? Cool!"
Not saying either community is better or worse, just that we have different focal points.
THAT is why a poll run across several communities is useful and even necessary. To listen to any one community in a vacuum from all other data sources is short-sighted.
I wish I could see the true results on the answer for being timely and trusting WOTC. It should be unanimously... ZERO trust.
EK
I trust them to make good stuff - the CB is testament that given basically no deadlines, they can put out a nice piece of software -but timely? Nope.
I trust them to make good stuff - the CB is testament that given basically no deadlines, they can put out a nice piece of software -but timely? Nope.
Agreed.
Take the feedback to Digital Insider here vs the feedback at ENWorld.
Here the responce has been not unlike "the sky is falling!"
ENWorld? Reading the same DI? "New classes? Cool!"
Not saying either community is better or worse, just that we have different focal points.
Wait seriously? There's less "the sky is falling" over at ENWorld? *starts packing bags* Don't mind me.:PIt gave me about 5 over the course of a couple of pages. Demographics on the first page, then the question about whether I had played or was intending to play and then when I finished that one it went straight to "Thanks for taking the survey". I would have loved to say I had bought the PHB... because I have. I just didn't get the chance.
Thanks! In that case it seems to have been a very efficient skip. It skipped everything ;).
I checked on this and it was not a glitch. The survey is geared towards current/active players regardless of edition.
You answered one of three three possibilities that state that you don't currently play D&D. Those who answer that way get bumped to the end. So if you play any form of D&D now (1e, 2e, 3e, 4e etc) you should answer that as "I currently play the D&D game".
"Q. Where did first learn about D&D Insider?" "A. In the back of the PHB".
..I'm just saying. :embarrass
I checked on this and it was not a glitch. The survey is geared towards current/active players regardless of edition.
Thanks for checking on this.
Am I to hope from this that there may be future surveys that will take account of the wishes of your aspiring playerbase (i.e. future customers) or the people who follow the Wizards product line through its novel output?
And, uh, if WotC is considering having a way for us to get custom-made physical (as opposed to digital) minis of our characters, mark me down for one. I read that question and nearly fell over.
We're sorry, an unexpected error has occurred.
An error has been encountered that will prevent you from continuing with this survey.
For assistance, contact [email]surveyrespsupport@markettools.com[/email]
Please refer to this code: 13AXL2J4CQ6Y4
I've tried several times, with Firefox 3 and IE 7, and cleared my caches to no avail.
Arg.
Verys
We're sorry, an unexpected error has occurred.
An error has been encountered that will prevent you from continuing with this survey.
For assistance, contact [email]surveyrespsupport@markettools.com[/email]
Please refer to this code: 13AXL2J4CQ6Y4
Good to see there's a survey asking these things. However, for one of the questions you're missing a possible answer.
"Q. Where did first learn about D&D Insider?" "A. In the back of the PHB".
..I'm just saying. :embarrass
Actually, this is the answer I was looking for also to that question.
I answered that I currently play D&D, and then got asked what d&d games I played. I indicated that I played D&D on the computer single player, and over the computer with others (virtual table top) and one other I can't remember off the top of my head. And that was it. it sent me to demographics and that was that.
This was a pretty fail survey.
*edit I deleted my cookies and retook it, I love how the options reordered themselves on the second question... The third option I chose was that I use a computer to track characters and campaigns. Once again no follow up questions asked.
I got asked 2 questions.
I answered that I currently play D&D, and then got asked what d&d games I played. I indicated that I played D&D on the computer single player, and over the computer with others (virtual table top) and one other I can't remember off the top of my head. And that was it. it sent me to demographics and that was that.
This was a pretty fail survey.
*edit I deleted my cookies and retook it, I love how the options reordered themselves on the second question... The third option I chose was that I use a computer to track characters and campaigns. Once again no follow up questions asked.
I find reports like this interesting as the impression I have gotten was WotC did not care all that much about existing players and wanted new players attracted from WOW etc.
Hey, sees your edit, they do not want you to roleplay the survey. *wink*
Oh it did sound like they did adjustments because one user appeared to indicate demographics were first, if true likely because of me. *shrugs*
In the first question, if you don't answer "currently play D&D", then it will bump you to the end of the survey. In retrospect, I think we could have afforded to open up the survey more broadly, and we're certainly re-evaluating that decision for future surveys (this won't be the last one).
The second question (how you play D&D) is a little more curious. All of the questions about computers and console systems are meant to weed out respondents who are confusing paper D&D with D&D branded computer games (like D&D Online) or other roleplaying video games that they might think are D&D.
We use this kind of filtering for surveys that are hitting really, really broad populations (like phone surveys of random people in the U.S.), and for that audience it's very useful.
But for this audience, it looks like we need a new filter, since we're accidentally excluding people who are using virtual table tops to play D&D but aren't playing at all in person. Kind of ironic, considering one of the goals of D&D Insider.
Thanks so much for your feedback and comments. Like I said, this isn't going to be our only survey, so we'll try to improve these each time out.
---------------------------------
Brian Poel
Business Manager -- D&D Insider
Wizards of the Coast
But for this audience, it looks like we need a new filter, since we're accidentally excluding people who are using virtual table tops to play D&D but aren't playing at all in person. Kind of ironic, considering one of the goals of D&D Insider.
Thanks so much for your feedback and comments. Like I said, this isn't going to be our only survey, so we'll try to improve these each time out.
---------------------------------
Brian Poel
Business Manager -- D&D Insider
Wizards of the Coast
I currently play both ways, so it did not filter me out.
Overall, I thought the questions were rather good, and covered most of the areas I would want to discuss when asked about such options.
Ironically, I tried to take the survey and after answering the first question I get an error message.
I've tried several times, with Firefox 3 and IE 7, and cleared my caches to no avail.
Arg.
Verys
Just wanted to report that I got support from MarketTools technical staff, via email, that cleared up the problem (whatever it was), and that I was able to take the survey.
Verys
Can't agree with MB that WoTC deserved a "4" on timeliness. I think you have to look at this current DDI initiative as a whole that dates back to 3.0 and their first try which was a complete failure. They missed their original June 2008 dates with 4E. They lagged to get anything out in a timely or regular manner until about October of 2007 when they started holding themselves to a standard and let us know what that standard was. Since that, they have done pretty well with delivering what was promised, so that's about 4 months of decent timeliness - thus I gave them a "2".
I will echo other comments that state that I trust the products we get - the character builder and articles from Dungeon and Dragon are great. But they have a long way to go to prove that they can reliably deliver timely updates. A reputation for timeliness and reliability takes.......well it takes time, and they need to build on the last 4 months and not slip on the standard that they have set.
I agree with Wolf Star that this forum is a small minority of DnD players. A broad survey that hits many groups will give a better picture, but it very well might not paint a rosier picture for DDI. At least in my group, the ones that don't go to the forums are the most negative about DDI.
A good topic for a future DDI article might be some snipets from the survey results.
One question that might be good for a future survey is the extent to which players are already using online VTTs, as I do.
) LEts get this development done, and soon, or the seven of us are going to go back to playing an MMO for a couple of years with the money that we'll be no longer be giving to WotC. You guys did a great job with the character generator, now finish the job ASAP!!!!!I just took the survey and thought it was fairly well designed for the current player and it should work well to establish their "baseline", which was the stated goal. I say this as someone who generally despises surveys, but I am trying to make an effort
Can't agree with MB that WoTC deserved a "4" on timeliness. I think you have to look at this current DDI initiative as a whole that dates back to 3.0 and their first try which was a complete failure. They missed their original June 2008 dates with 4E. They lagged to get anything out in a timely or regular manner until about October of 2007 when they started holding themselves to a standard and let us know what that standard was. Since that, they have done pretty well with delivering what was promised, so that's about 4 months of decent timeliness - thus I gave them a "2".
I will echo other comments that state that I trust the products we get - the character builder and articles from Dungeon and Dragon are great. But they have a long way to go to prove that they can reliably deliver timely updates. A reputation for timeliness and reliability takes.......well it takes time, and they need to build on the last 4 months and not slip on the standard that they have set.
I agree with Wolf Star that this forum is a small minority of DnD players. A broad survey that hits many groups will give a better picture, but it very well might not paint a rosier picture for DDI. At least in my group, the ones that don't go to the forums are the most negative about DDI.
A good topic for a future DDI article might be some snipets from the survey results.
One question that might be good for a future survey is the extent to which players are already using online VTTs, as I do.
Great post, I totally agree!!!
Vaporware!!!!
Huh??
Not being honest with Client about the state of the development.
Vaporware.
Its showing the public a program that dosent exist,(or is so early in production it has years and years to go befor being done) that totally hypes the product befor launch. (not leting anyone the chance to know the truth about the software being a long way from complet).
Google it, you'll see.
Its basicly a scam.
Software: Is when there is actual program thats close to working or ready when you talk about it and show it to Hype a product for Sell.
Vaporware is somone pretending like theres software but theres nothing. All thats made is a simple Demo that has nothing of the mechanics built in to support promised feature in the demo at the time.
Showing a vid on Youtube that looked to me like it was very close to ready but actually was not. and not leting anyone know this was very far off of done, for example =Vaporware
Its a deceptive marketing scam *Vaporware*.
Vaporware=Program shown to hype upcoming game, promised features that have no way of being ready at launch or anytime soon after Game has launched, but still use to promote a game's launch, not saying anything about it not being ready untill many years after launch.
Not being honest with Client about the state of the development.
Vaporware.
Its showing the public a program that dosent exist,(or is so early in production it has years and years to go befor being done) that totally hypes the product befor launch. (not leting anyone the chance to know the truth about the software being a long way from complet).
Google it, you'll see.
Its basicly a scam.
Software: Is when there is actual program thats close to working or ready when you talk about it and show it to Hype a product for Sell.
Vaporware is somone pretending like theres software but theres nothing. All thats made is a simple Demo that has nothing of the mechanics built in to support promised feature in the demo at the time.
Showing a vid on Youtube that looked to me like it was very close to ready but actually was not. and not leting anyone know this was very far off of done, for example =Vaporware
Its a deceptive marketing scam *Vaporware*.
Some of us have had hands-on demos with the softwares. While they're buggy they aren't just videos, and they do have the math in them.
They're just not production quality yet.
If I recall correctly, both the Character Visualizer and the Game Table have been demoed, by the public, at Gen Con last year, as well as at PAX.
Late, yes.
Vaporware, no.
If anything, this has shown me how dedicated this WotWC team really is.
I think you guys have a really amazing product planed, that might really change the face of your industry. The Value added to this product with combination to this tool could really be big.
I may have some frustration with this products tardiness, but i also think that your administration must know game table being so late hurts WotWC a great deal more then anyone who bought the core books assuming game table, and all D&D incider was ready to go. A Perfect launch of all core books at the same time then a fully loaded and completed D&Dincider Would have really been a huge hit in my opinion at the time.
As iv missed the first survey for this product I'll keep in touch with your thread for further oportunity to help define what this comunity see's as importent.
Thanks for restoring a bit of faith where there was none.
Better late then never!
Keep up the good work.
You can probably still get at the survey. I know that I got it on Thursday or Friday from the front page. I think that I have the link in the OP of this trhead as well.
As Wolfstar76 hinted at, vaporware is a term that is generally reserved for software products that are only talked about, and never really displayed or demoed.
If I recall correctly, both the Character Visualizer and the Game Table have been demoed, by the public, at Gen Con last year, as well as at PAX.
Late, yes.
Vaporware, no.
Well it depends on how you define vaporware.
Wolf and you are using the kindest, based on the belief it will come soon.
Late or never appearing also is something defined as vaporware.
I was advised to wait a year before I can call it late, so there are a few months to go on that time line.
The never appearing (or over a year late) is the functional personal blogs, the character and adventure vaults (all of have been canceled for now). The over promise clearly was one factor of what many people appear to call vaporware.
Oh perhaps even the blogs will come back after everything else is settled in, I certainly do not expect this to occur soon.
I do not expect Game Table to be possible until WotC buys more servers or uses their current ones more effectively. As I and a few others have mentioned WotC appears to be under server equipped or the servers owned are poorly configured. The only way the prise end of the line part requires a near 24 hours a day 365 days a year working.
The only direct improvement I have detected is forums tend to go down for an hour +/- a week instead of going down an hour +/- a day. The website did get a little more backward complaint, however issues remain about bad links, download failures and the other occasional reports that are posted. It still in fairness to WotC, hard to know number of people had no issues at all. OTOH it is also hard to know how many users having a problem read a post on the forums that offered a work arround.
The never appearing (or over a year late) is the functional personal blogs, the character and adventure vaults (all of have been canceled for now). The over promise clearly was one factor of what many people appear to call vaporware.
There *were* individual blogs as part of the Gleemax Initiative. However, when they killed Gleemax, the blogs got killed as well. Those, if they come back, will be very far down on the list of priorities I think.
Oh perhaps even the blogs will come back after everything else is settled in, I certainly do not expect this to occur soon.
As I said above, while it would be nice if they brought them back, I think that they (Campaign blogs, character vaults, etc) will not be something that is worked on until after the entire suite of DDI tools has been released.
The only direct improvement I have detected is forums tend to go down for an hour +/- a week instead of going down an hour +/- a day. The website did get a little more backward complaint, however issues remain about bad links, download failures and the other occasional reports that are posted. It still in fairness to WotC, hard to know number of people had no issues at all. OTOH it is also hard to know how many users having a problem read a post on the forums that offered a work arround.
I know that WotC is working on a fairly large redesign of the WotC website which will, hopefully, fix a bunch of the problems. In the process of that, I hope that most of the current website problems (instability, etc) will be fixed.
Late, yes.
Vaporware, no.
Yeah, like Duke Nukem Forever ;)
The Character Visualizer is a product that does not supply any value but is complicated to create and it will most likely only satisfy a very small minority unless it is more or less a face and body sculp simulator for not only humans (incredibly expensive) but also for various fantasy races with more or less complex body compositions (impossible to calculate cost of). The other option is to make something that is so basic and neutral that after the initial "Oh, nice" quickly becomes "Oh, whatever".
The Dungeon Builder is already under heavy competition from existing products and if you have to buy additional virtual miniatures to use it, it will not be able to compete in the current market space. It will simply become too expensive for not enough extra features.
The same can be said about the Virtual Gametable where other suppliers are already established on the market and at very reasonable prices.
WotC have on the other hand released PDFs of their books in a very high quality (along with updates that are free if you made the original purchase) and I'm very pleased to see that they always launch at the same date that the "hardcopy" books launch.
So all in all, when WotC (and DDI) present elements that no one else on the market can give in as much detail (both due to copyright restrictions as well as closeness to the source of the data presented) they release sterling products.
Character Builder, Compendium. Know when you have reached the end of your prospective line of success and cut the losses.
WotC have on the other hand released PDFs of their books in a very high quality (along with updates that are free if you made the original purchase) and I'm very pleased to see that they always launch at the same date that the "hardcopy" books launch.
Apparently you are not aware that the pdfs of the books that swamp the internet every release day are not actually official releases from WotC, and therefore illegal?
And the updates that are on the website are free whether you bough tthe original product or not.
You might want to latch on to a few facts before launching into other suppositions.
Apparently you are not aware that the pdfs of the books that swamp the internet every release day are not actually official releases from WotC, and therefore illegal?
And the updates that are on the website are free whether you bough tthe original product or not.
You might want to latch on to a few facts before launching into other suppositions.
Speaking of facts, did you know you can buy the books at drivethrurpg.com - and that those books get updates from time to time from WotC?
/just sayin'
Speaking of facts, did you know you can buy the books at drivethrurpg.com - and that those books get updates from time to time from WotC?
Not only that, before Dungeon Delve got released they emailed me a coupon to get the PDF free on release through DriveThruRPG because at the time I'd purchased all the PDFs except Open Grave (which I bought at the same time as I got Dungeon Delve.)
Apparently you are not aware that the pdfs of the books that swamp the internet every release day are not actually official releases from WotC, and therefore illegal?
And the updates that are on the website are free whether you bough tthe original product or not.
You might want to latch on to a few facts before launching into other suppositions.
Get your facts straight Clueless and visit www.drivethrurpg.com
Released on official release day, high quality, low size with indexes and links throughout. They are also about 33% of the cost if you live in EU since they list their wares in dollars :D