DDI: is it TOO worthwhile? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

DDI: is it TOO worthwhile?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
szthesquid
Jul 15, 2010 22:15:02 A DDI subscription is undoubtedly cost-effective. Ridiculously so. But sometimes I worry that I'm wasting my money on the books.

The books are "patched" regularly, but my printed copies don't update. However, the character builder, compendium, and monster builder update their rules text constantly.

I never touch my own D&D books, because a month after release, they're outdated. I lend them out to other players and DMs, but I use DDI on both sides of the table. The constant updates and errata, which are normally a sign of great developer support and interaction with the community, sometimes make me feel like I should never have bought the books in the first place.

Anyone else feel the same way, or disagree violently?
#2
bone_naga
Jul 16, 2010 6:07:03 I like my books. They are easy to browse through looking for ideas. They don't update themselves, but I can insert the printed errata into whichever book it belongs. Also, the errata doesn't really affect as much of the books as people like to claim. They will reprint an entire power in the errrata even if a single word is all that is changed.

When WotC switches to 5e, my books will still be there, but DDI will probably dump 4e content and move to the new ruleset. If I decide I'm done with 4e or D&D in general I can sell my books to recoup some of my losses, but DDI will get me nothing. I travel a lot and don't always have reliable internet access. Really the ideal solution for me is pdf books, but thats another topic.

And in the end, if you decide you will use DDI and not the books, it's still a win for WotC. As with any company, their goal is to make money. It doesn't really matter whether that money comes from DDI or Amazon. If you buy books with DDI, they get more money. If you only use DDI, well then so long as you continue playing 4e you'll need to continue dishing out money for DDI or go back and buy the books when your subscription expires, so still a win for WotC.
#3
RAMEENN
Jul 19, 2010 11:56:15
I don't disagree violently, but I do disagree. I can't read things off a computer screen, it hurts my head. Especially for monsters: I can look through the Monster Builder, but that doesn't necessarily give me a feel for a monster, but if I leaf through my MM's, I can look at a picture and go "that's what I need" and go from there.
#4
Jharii
Jul 19, 2010 12:26:04 Yeah, being able to curl up in front of the couch with a stack of books to rifle through... you just can't beat that. Considering I only have to sacrifice one night at the bar to get 2-3 books, it's well worth it.
#5
Phobos
Jul 19, 2010 14:06:35
I like my books

I like your books too. Er, sorry I misread that the first time, never mind.

More on point to the OP. I own 3 books. I intended to buy more, but as you hinted, with the CB, the compendium and the tools so far, I simpyl have no need. Desire aside, the CB gives me (and my players) all they need to play.

I buy some of the adventures to run, but sooooooo much content is coming out subscriber only, and then soooooo much of the printed books are being changed|corrected, that buying them in paper format is no longer a good investment for me.

It's not a matter of not wanting to buy the books, I just simply cannot justify it with the DDi content.

#6
Janx_14
Jul 19, 2010 14:09:17 I like the DM books still for the fluff, and when it comes to monsters, most the names of D&D monsters are so bland you have no idea what they are in the Monster Builder without a picture, so they arent exactly inspiring. They also make a nice read when bored.

Now, player books, who generally have generic fluff that usually gets ignored or is a "well duh, I know what a paladin does" are virtually useless, since the CB is much, much easier medium to look through stuff you want with.

I wouldnt be surprised if this is one reason the Darksun book is both a player and a DM book.
#7
nialas
Jul 20, 2010 5:01:15
Now, player books, who generally have generic fluff that usually gets ignored or is a "well duh, I know what a paladin does" are virtually useless, since the CB is much, much easier medium to look through stuff you want with.

I've found that I need both the books and the character builder. I flip through the books to see higher level powers that I would be interested in and research the prerequisites. Then I use the CB to get the math straight. If I use the CB alone, I can miss even seeing powers that would fit a character because I haven't selected a specific feat, or my attributes are off by one.

#8
rhianni32
Jul 20, 2010 6:51:48 I prefer the books for finding magic items. I dont like how they are organized for palyers in the CB.
Overall I agree with the OP. I havent had a desire to buy the books because of DDI and they have gotten a lot less money out of me then past editions.
Add in 5 downloads of both tools a month and my entire gaming group is covered whereas we used to by a couple copies of every main book to share and pass around the table.
#9
bone_naga
Jul 20, 2010 8:32:53
I like my books

I like your books too. Er, sorry I misread that the first time, never mind.

And what's your point?
#10
malcapricornis
Jul 20, 2010 14:57:52 I agree to an extent. But I also feel that if the product line is not profitable they will stop supporting the product so I like to purchase the books as well. Plus they are actually nice to read while sitting on the pot.
#11
Ore
Jul 20, 2010 17:50:41 The tools give me access to the mechanics. The books give me access to the fluff. For that reason I will continue to buy the books while paying for my DDI subscription because I value both.
#12
argy
Jul 20, 2010 20:12:09 I like physical books better, having said that I would like a nice phone app.
#13
frothsof
Jul 20, 2010 20:25:35 well the monster builder for me was the death of mm books just bc its so easy to search, print, and customize for games, but books like the underdark, plane below, etc are def worth buying bc i cant just read off the cpu all night my eyes get frazzled. the writing in the underdark in particular is great
#14
bageljay
Jul 30, 2010 13:24:27 while the articles/ downloadable pdfs are awesome and useful (I'm pretty sure you could run two sessions a week with just the online published adventures and never get to them all).

And the character builder/ compendium may be all you need for a player...

but on the dm side, I could not go without a dmg, and the monster builder has no "fluff" (terain, habitats, appearence, social structure) so I find that the monster manuals are still neccessary, unless you are homebrewing every single monster. And i've gotten tons out of campaign settings (even the setting I do not run) and plan on getting a ton out of the demonomicon.

So maybe from a player side the books are not necessary (1 phb per group to look up rules should do) but as a dm, the books are invaluable.
#15
The_Jester
Jul 30, 2010 16:18:20 There was alot of "patches" to 3.5 as well, although it certainly felt smaller.

That said, I have stopped buying player books and sold several of the ones I did have (and used the cash to subsidize Orcus) and haven't really felt like I was missing anything due to my reliance on the Character Builder.
It doesn't hurt that I play 4e online via MapTools have have ready access to the Compendium and iPlay4e.

This is a concern of mine, and I've blogged about it before. I worry that it's impacting sales and we'll see the consequences eventually, likely in a cessation of support.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 szthesquid Jul 15, 2010 22:15:02	A DDI subscription is undoubtedly cost-effective. Ridiculously so. But sometimes I worry that I'm wasting my money on the books. The books are "patched" regularly, but my printed copies don't update. However, the character builder, compendium, and monster builder update their rules text constantly. I never touch my own D&D books, because a month after release, they're outdated. I lend them out to other players and DMs, but I use DDI on both sides of the table. The constant updates and errata, which are normally a sign of great developer support and interaction with the community, sometimes make me feel like I should never have bought the books in the first place. Anyone else feel the same way, or disagree violently?
#2 bone_naga Jul 16, 2010 6:07:03	I like my books. They are easy to browse through looking for ideas. They don't update themselves, but I can insert the printed errata into whichever book it belongs. Also, the errata doesn't really affect as much of the books as people like to claim. They will reprint an entire power in the errrata even if a single word is all that is changed. When WotC switches to 5e, my books will still be there, but DDI will probably dump 4e content and move to the new ruleset. If I decide I'm done with 4e or D&D in general I can sell my books to recoup some of my losses, but DDI will get me nothing. I travel a lot and don't always have reliable internet access. Really the ideal solution for me is pdf books, but thats another topic. And in the end, if you decide you will use DDI and not the books, it's still a win for WotC. As with any company, their goal is to make money. It doesn't really matter whether that money comes from DDI or Amazon. If you buy books with DDI, they get more money. If you only use DDI, well then so long as you continue playing 4e you'll need to continue dishing out money for DDI or go back and buy the books when your subscription expires, so still a win for WotC.
#3 RAMEENN Jul 19, 2010 11:56:15	I don't disagree violently, but I do disagree. I can't read things off a computer screen, it hurts my head. Especially for monsters: I can look through the Monster Builder, but that doesn't necessarily give me a feel for a monster, but if I leaf through my MM's, I can look at a picture and go "that's what I need" and go from there.
#4 Jharii Jul 19, 2010 12:26:04	Yeah, being able to curl up in front of the couch with a stack of books to rifle through... you just can't beat that. Considering I only have to sacrifice one night at the bar to get 2-3 books, it's well worth it.
#5 Phobos Jul 19, 2010 14:06:35	I like my books I like your books too. Er, sorry I misread that the first time, never mind. More on point to the OP. I own 3 books. I intended to buy more, but as you hinted, with the CB, the compendium and the tools so far, I simpyl have no need. Desire aside, the CB gives me (and my players) all they need to play. I buy some of the adventures to run, but sooooooo much content is coming out subscriber only, and then soooooo much of the printed books are being changed\|corrected, that buying them in paper format is no longer a good investment for me. It's not a matter of not wanting to buy the books, I just simply cannot justify it with the DDi content.
#6 Janx_14 Jul 19, 2010 14:09:17	I like the DM books still for the fluff, and when it comes to monsters, most the names of D&D monsters are so bland you have no idea what they are in the Monster Builder without a picture, so they arent exactly inspiring. They also make a nice read when bored. Now, player books, who generally have generic fluff that usually gets ignored or is a "well duh, I know what a paladin does" are virtually useless, since the CB is much, much easier medium to look through stuff you want with. I wouldnt be surprised if this is one reason the Darksun book is both a player and a DM book.
#7 nialas Jul 20, 2010 5:01:15	Now, player books, who generally have generic fluff that usually gets ignored or is a "well duh, I know what a paladin does" are virtually useless, since the CB is much, much easier medium to look through stuff you want with. I've found that I need both the books and the character builder. I flip through the books to see higher level powers that I would be interested in and research the prerequisites. Then I use the CB to get the math straight. If I use the CB alone, I can miss even seeing powers that would fit a character because I haven't selected a specific feat, or my attributes are off by one.
#8 rhianni32 Jul 20, 2010 6:51:48	I prefer the books for finding magic items. I dont like how they are organized for palyers in the CB. Overall I agree with the OP. I havent had a desire to buy the books because of DDI and they have gotten a lot less money out of me then past editions. Add in 5 downloads of both tools a month and my entire gaming group is covered whereas we used to by a couple copies of every main book to share and pass around the table.
#9 bone_naga Jul 20, 2010 8:32:53	I like my books I like your books too. Er, sorry I misread that the first time, never mind. And what's your point?
#10 malcapricornis Jul 20, 2010 14:57:52	I agree to an extent. But I also feel that if the product line is not profitable they will stop supporting the product so I like to purchase the books as well. Plus they are actually nice to read while sitting on the pot.
#11 Ore Jul 20, 2010 17:50:41	The tools give me access to the mechanics. The books give me access to the fluff. For that reason I will continue to buy the books while paying for my DDI subscription because I value both.
#12 argy Jul 20, 2010 20:12:09	I like physical books better, having said that I would like a nice phone app.
#13 frothsof Jul 20, 2010 20:25:35	well the monster builder for me was the death of mm books just bc its so easy to search, print, and customize for games, but books like the underdark, plane below, etc are def worth buying bc i cant just read off the cpu all night my eyes get frazzled. the writing in the underdark in particular is great
#14 bageljay Jul 30, 2010 13:24:27	while the articles/ downloadable pdfs are awesome and useful (I'm pretty sure you could run two sessions a week with just the online published adventures and never get to them all). And the character builder/ compendium may be all you need for a player... but on the dm side, I could not go without a dmg, and the monster builder has no "fluff" (terain, habitats, appearence, social structure) so I find that the monster manuals are still neccessary, unless you are homebrewing every single monster. And i've gotten tons out of campaign settings (even the setting I do not run) and plan on getting a ton out of the demonomicon. So maybe from a player side the books are not necessary (1 phb per group to look up rules should do) but as a dm, the books are invaluable.
#15 The_Jester Jul 30, 2010 16:18:20	There was alot of "patches" to 3.5 as well, although it certainly felt smaller. That said, I have stopped buying player books and sold several of the ones I did have (and used the cash to subsidize Orcus) and haven't really felt like I was missing anything due to my reliance on the Character Builder. It doesn't hurt that I play 4e online via MapTools have have ready access to the Compendium and iPlay4e. This is a concern of mine, and I've blogged about it before. I worry that it's impacting sales and we'll see the consequences eventually, likely in a cessation of support.