Opinions?
I might give it another try. I gave it up because I lost interest, as I do with most MMORPG's I've tried. All in all, if they start merging servers the game is done. However, Turbine is making lots of money with the LotRO so they could sport some charity to their other game I guess.
Their take on the Silver Flame was a bit off, but they really did have a lot of really good flavorful quests. If you took the time to read the text, most people didn't.
I ended up leaving because of guild drama, you know how it is, people taking a game far too seriously, he said she said, people pouting, I just decided there were better things I could do with my time.
I might take a spin through there again. If for nothing else than to take some screenshots of some Stormreach locations to use when my Stormreach table top game starts back up.
"You guys are in the Forgelight District (toss them a picture of the House Denieth enclave)" that sort of thing.
Never got the "ITS NOT D&D!" "ITS NOT EBERRON!" Never been at a table without houserules, this just was a much bigger table with more elaborate houserules. It was still D&D, and it was still very much Eberron.
*holds his muckbane high and sinches his +6 strength belt he got from Velah the red dragon*
It was completely tonally and visually ridiculous. Magical pillars supporting the docks in Stormreach? Jorasco halfling healers not even showing up until what, the third or fourth area you reach? Before that it's the same-old non-Eberron clerical healers, as if this were the Forgotten Realms and Neverwinter Nights instead of a game theoretically set in Eberron.
As for having the silver flame handle the healing and resurrection in the game, yes, its an error.
Still there is a lot of Eberron flavor to be had in there. If you just wouldn't nit pick every little thing. I mean do you complain at a game table if a DM has chosen to alter something?
I liked DDO. I liked being recruted by House Deneith to strike, commando style at a self styled Fire Giant general and his gathering horde of minotaur, trolls, and giants at the ruins of Stormcleave.
I enjoyed climbing to the peak of Tempest Spine to face off against a Storm Giant who had a magical crown which had enslaved the local drow under his control.
I liked racing against a Marut through to eventually face him to try to SAVE a drow vampire whose help you needed.
I liked having to break into an ultra high security House Kundarak vault because a Red Dragon had taken it over because she wanted access to the pieces of the prophecy that had been locked inside. I especially like her telling you that "your doom" is written in them as you fight her.
I liked fighting my way through the spawn of Xoriat in the Xorian Cypher and the Twilight Forge, where mindflayers have discovered an ancient creation forge from the giant quori war and have created a quori-forged titan... with lasers.
I liked walking the crystaline fields of Giant Hold Kor, a scene of one of the most devistating fights of the giant/dragon war. A blasted and twisted land wehre the dead soldiers of both sides have been frozen in crystal in the midst of their battle.
But no there's no Eberron lore in any of that.
What is bad about DDO? Bad crafting (maybe solved on mod 9 now), some stupid people thinking that you sucks because your character is a 28-points instead of 32 (untrue, most of DDO effectiveness come from smart play, not only power play), deaf zergers that complain when he dies because he rushed ahead with his +55% speed and got swarmed... ok, stop ranting now.
They really limited their customer base when they limited it to Eberron. They should have made each server a different world, but that would have required more artwork and programming. It would have appealed to all audiences.
Despite all of the tools that have been made by homebrew programmers that follow the rules explicitly and perfectly. The game companies still insist that they cannot program the rules of D&D into a game. This is pure nonsense I am a programmer and I could do it, with little to no effort. Instead of denying it they should have everyone involved sit down and play the game for several hours each day, then they would know exactly how the rules work, and how to implement them in the game.
D&D is not all combat, but MMO's pretty much are. There should be an option to talk to enemies and influence them to not attack. All monsters should not start out hostile to the party, they should start out unfriendly allowing the players to give them gifts, and parlay with them to change their attitude. This could be used to avoid combat altogether.
Lastly why does MMO have to mean "not turn based". I'm all for putting a limit on the amount of time a player has to make a decision. They could set it at 30 seconds or so. Most players would get in the habit of deciding what to do outside of their turn and use their turn to decide. If they don't decide they hold their action until they decide what to do.
Ever play NWN on an online server where anyone could pause the game for EVERYONE so they could take the time to place their spells.
Yeah most NWN servers had pause disabled making it in effect 'real time'.
Turn based single player games are falling out of favor, not economically viable, a turn based MMO would never work.
DDO was a pretty damn good interpretation of the 3.5 ruleset all things considered. I don't get "IT WASN'T D&D!" It was D&D, it used the spellpoint rules out of Unearthed Arcana and it had some 'houserules' to make it real time, the core of the system was still the same, you still built the same bonuses off the same stats and the same feats. you still had an attack rate based off your base attack bonus.
I don't play the game anymore because I eventually got bored with it (can't play the same video game for over two months. Never have.) But some of these arguements against DDO are really damn weak.
DDO is closer to D&D 3.5 than 4th edition is. Amusingly they call 4th an MMO and DDO "NOT D&D"
(1) I could buy a complete subscription-free Guild Wars game (there are three plus 1 expansion) for the price of a couple of months of DDO subscription.
(2) DDO works great with a party, but is basically impossible without one. In GW, I can fill my party with NPCs, so I don't have to spend half an hour forming a pick-up-group before I can start playing.
GW has some other things going for it, but the above were the deal-breakers. That said, I still have very fond memories of DDO, and may try it again now that I won't get slugged a subscription fee every month.
PS: And yes, DDO did feel both Eberron and D&D to me. Of course there were differences to playing tabletop, but it was never trying to be that.
MMO turn based games wouldn't work because you have to wait for other people to take their 'turns'.
It would work if they locked the dungeons like DDO does (each party that goes in gets a copy of the dungeon alone to themselves). Then the pause effect would only happen when a monster spots the a member of the party, or a party member attacks.
Ever play NWN on an online server where anyone could pause the game for EVERYONE so they could take the time to place their spells.
Yeah most NWN servers had pause disabled making it in effect 'real time'.
Turn based single player games are falling out of favor, not economically viable, a turn based MMO would never work.
See above. They are falling out of favor because everyone's attention spans are listed in seconds and not minutes. If a round would be forced to happen in under a minute, then people would not have a problem with it, thus the time limit of 30 seconds. If you can't hit an attack or spell icon and click a target in 30 seconds you have some seriously low dex [or your paralyzed (save ends)]. You could also have it where you choose ahead of time what you want to do while it is resolving other characters and monsters actions, so combat would go really quick.
DDO was a pretty damn good interpretation of the 3.5 ruleset all things considered. I don't get "IT WASN'T D&D!" It was D&D, it used the spellpoint rules out of Unearthed Arcana and it had some 'houserules' to make it real time, the core of the system was still the same, you still built the same bonuses off the same stats and the same feats. you still had an attack rate based off your base attack bonus.
I don't know what 3.5 ruleset you were comparing it to, but mine didn't have tiers every level, and it didn't have spells you could use a bunch of times before they left your memory. Not to mention that the entire combat system was weird because they had to make it real time. I don't know why they keep making crappy D&D games. About the only games I can think of that come really close to using the rules is POR: RoMD, Baldur's Gate (PC), Icewind Dale (I & II) and ToEE. The ones that were turn based got it the closest while the others made it seem like you were following the rules when in actuality you were not. While I enjoy games like baldur's gate for [insert your favorite console here], I don't consider them D&D because they just don't even come close to following the rules.
I don't play the game anymore because I eventually got bored with it (can't play the same video game for over two months. Never have.) But some of these arguements against DDO are really damn weak.
DDO is closer to D&D 3.5 than 4th edition is. Amusingly they call 4th an MMO and DDO "NOT D&D"
They are only weak if you don't understand what I'm saying. For me it was a fun game, but I had a level 60 red mage on FFXI Online, and I'm not going to invest my money and time in a game that just purports to be one thing and fails at it.
I'm in the beta, but I don't get to play much, as they have some severe tech issues to work out.
Ok, so I just wasn't in. Does it use 4E rules?
Ok, so I just wasn't in. Does it use 4E rules?
Thankfully no. It uses a modified 3.5 set.
Thankfully no. It uses a modified 3.5 set.
Well, what's the point? If they modify it, its just like any other MMO.
Well, what's the point? If they modify it, its just like any other MMO.
Because some rules that work well on a turn based game, do not work well in live combat.
For example, spell slots for casters. They would quickly run out of anything to do. They tried a version where once a spell was cast, it was gone till the caster had a chance to restore spells. Didn't work out, it required casters basically having to bring everything to a stop and rest between every encounter.
So they used an alternate method, spell points. Spell points are a suggested alternate method for casting spells.
Worked out much better for casters.
Because some rules that work well on a turn based game, do not work well in live combat.
For example, spell slots for casters. They would quickly run out of anything to do. They tried a version where once a spell was cast, it was gone till the caster had a chance to restore spells. Didn't work out, it required casters basically having to bring everything to a stop and rest between every encounter.
So they used an alternate method, spell points. Spell points are a suggested alternate method for casting spells.
Worked out much better for casters.
I wonder why it didn't work out? Was it something inherent in 3.5 or was it an imbalance somewhere else?
Customer are less and less bound by the old belief that "free is crap", thanks to the web and its open-source society... So don't be surprise to see more and more game having main content free with ?buyable? little upgrade/skin/stuff. The online customer hardly gives 30$ but spend 60x1$ far, far more easely.
I wonder why it didn't work out? Was it something inherent in 3.5 or was it an imbalance somewhere else?
Because under 3.5 rules a low level wizard would blow his load in less than 30 seconds. Which makes quests like "Protect the fortress from attacking hordes for 15 minutes" really damn hard.
Because under 3.5 rules a low level wizard would blow his load in less than 30 seconds. Which makes quests like "Protect the fortress from attacking hordes for 15 minutes" really damn hard.
That still doesn't answer the question. In a 3.5 pen and paper game with the same number of monsters being thrown at the fortress, the wizard would have more trouble or less? I think it was some kind of translation error from the 3.5 rules to real time rules myself.
Of course 4E doesn't have that problem. You have powers you can use once a day (or 2-3 hours in game MMO time), once per encounter, and however often you want. Which solves the spell slots vs. spell points problem of DDO.
I am holding out to try DDO again when and if they go to 4th edition. They are afraid to try 4E now because the DDO players are a bunch of whiners about 4E (see the forums if you are wondering). But if they decide to evolve the game keep up with D&D and implement 4E rules, I will go back to it.
That still doesn't answer the question. In a 3.5 pen and paper game with the same number of monsters being thrown at the fortress, the wizard would have more trouble or less? I think it was some kind of translation error from the 3.5 rules to real time rules myself.
Of course 4E doesn't have that problem. You have powers you can use once a day (or 2-3 hours in game MMO time), once per encounter, and however often you want. Which solves the spell slots vs. spell points problem of DDO.
It would even make it funner if you couldn't take an extended rest for 16 hours or whatever the rules in 4E are. In game time if 1 hour is a day then that's like 2 extended rests per hour. If a day is 2 hours then that would be 1 extended rest per hour.
I am not at all a fan of Eberron, and did not like 3rd Edition (my group still dances around it...playing 1st, 2nd, and 4e). However, I am excited to play an MMO based on D&D. That said...as much as people here try to convince you otherwise, DDO only resembles D&D as much as WoW does. Sure...it may use the same names for stats and such (then completely runs them differently).
I am holding out to try DDO again when and if they go to 4th edition. They are afraid to try 4E now because the DDO players are a bunch of whiners about 4E (see the forums if you are wondering). But if they decide to evolve the game keep up with D&D and implement 4E rules, I will go back to it.
I agree, if they try to faithfully implement the 4E rules into the game, then I'll go for it, but if they hack them up like they did for 3E I'm not gonna even touch it with a 10' pole.
It would even make it funner if you couldn't take an extended rest for 16 hours or whatever the rules in 4E are. In game time if 1 hour is a day then that's like 2 extended rests per hour. If a day is 2 hours then that would be 1 extended rest per hour.
I agree, if they try to faithfully implement the 4E rules into the game, then I'll go for it, but if they hack them up like they did for 3E I'm not gonna even touch it with a 10' pole.
I must agree with you. If they hack the rules, they might just as well call the game another name.
EDIT: Should have checked the website currently set to release September 9th!
which was pushed there from August 4th(VIP)/6th(regular).
In other words don't expect it til just before x-mas.
there were a few kinks and I think they need more testers for better stress testing. (which is what they are really concerned about).I betaed DDO when it first came out. I've got the silly founder's hat to prove it. I just wanted to point out that some people said the rules got hacked. Yes, they did change some things, but they did a remarkable job at making it feel like D&D. You still go in the dungeon, encounter traps, puzzles, and monsters. The changes aren't much worse than a DM houseruling things. They did a great job at making movement, tactics, and positioning matter just like PnP while still keeping the game fast paced and quick moving. Is it exactly the same as PnP? No, but they're different mediums. Everything can't be the same or it won't take advantage of the medium it's on.
I wouldn't say breaking levels up into four sections and requiring as much xp for each section as for normal leveling akin to houseruling. I think they went a little too far. Not to mention the spell system which in no way resembles 3.5E rules. About the only thing they did was the copy the dungeon things, so there aren't 10k people in each dungeon. I also played it for a month or two when it first came out. I was not impressed.
There are a lot of things different, but I find it to have a D&D feel, without really having the rules. It's actually one of the things that got me into playing tabletop D&D.
Now that it's free, I think it's worth playing. I used to play a year or more ago, but got bored with it at the time.
Eh, spell point system was in one of the optional books.
There are a lot of things different, but I find it to have a D&D feel, without really having the rules. It's actually one of the things that got me into playing tabletop D&D.
Now that it's free, I think it's worth playing. I used to play a year or more ago, but got bored with it at the time.
There was a lot of stuff in optional books. Doesn't mean it should be in a D&D software product. I mean if I used just optional rules, I could craft an entire game that never once used a core 3.5E rule.
why? It's just like playing with a DM who uses a lot of optional rules. No biggie... I don't see whats so terribly wrong with that?
Exactly my point. One or two house rules sure. Most of the game crippled by house rules to make it even? Really just move on to 4E already.
But it's fine right now..
So what's the release date now? September 30?
It's out.
yay
Ok, downloding now...