Defenses and Abilities different than DMG? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Defenses and Abilities different than DMG?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
grimmshade
Aug 02, 2009 7:14:40 Are the defenses for custom made creatures being calculated differently than the rules for creating monsters in the DMG, or am I not properly understanding the DMG instructions?
The abilities also seem to be calculated differently.
The original Flash monster builder seems to calculate these 2 items more closely to the DMG.

Other than that, I am really liking this beta tool.
#2
Belorin
Aug 02, 2009 8:56:06 I believe it was said that the rules for these are from the DMG2, I just can't find the quote.

Bel
#3
Ore
Aug 02, 2009 11:24:41 You are correct, I saw it as well. New rules for monster creation are to be found in DMG2 and the Monster Builder is built on those rules.

So what may look like a broken program (in regards to numbers) could possibly just be a case of we don't have the right set of rules yet. There is no way to know for sure until the DMG2 hits the streets.
#4
_Mithreinmaethor_
Aug 02, 2009 11:41:42 They changed how solos and elites were done in the MM2 and the rules for this change will be in the DMG2.
#5
rurouniq
Aug 03, 2009 20:00:05 I noticed that fuzzy math as well... Every increase in level by 1 will increase all defenses and ToHit for all attacks by 1 each. Also, I noticed that the slightest increase in levels will raise the damage die type by 1 as well... Or was it just that I happened to hit the level at which those are raised? I had two level 4 monsters and 1 level 6 monster that I increased to level 7; all of them had their damage dice raised from d6s to d8s. Bug? New math? These things were stomping my level 8 party.
#6
ceiled
Aug 04, 2009 13:20:16
Every increase in level by 1 will increase all defenses and ToHit for all attacks by 1 each.

Actually, that's correct. From page 184 of the DMG:
A monster's level determines its defenses. A given defense based on an average ability score is equal to 12 + the monster's level.

So you see, given this guideline, raising an existing monster's level by 1 should also raise its defenses by 1.

The same is true of to-hit bonuses. The "Monster Statistics By Role" table on page 184 will tell you that attack vs. any defense should be "Level + X", where X varies based on the role. This means that increasing level by 1 also increases all to-hit bonuses by 1.

I had two level 4 monsters and 1 level 6 monster that I increased to level 7; all of them had their damage dice raised from d6s to d8s. Bug?

If you look at the "Damage By Level" table on page 185 of the DMG, you'll see that it's broken down in groups of three levels. This means that level 4 and level 6 monsters both use the same damage entries, but level 7 monsters use the next entries -- I'm guessing the monsters you saw were using the Low entries, which is 1d6 + 4 for level 4-6, and 1d8 + 5 for level 7-9. So basically, it's by design that the difference between a level 6 monster and a level 7 monster is significantly bigger than the difference between levels 5 and 6.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 grimmshade Aug 02, 2009 7:14:40	Are the defenses for custom made creatures being calculated differently than the rules for creating monsters in the DMG, or am I not properly understanding the DMG instructions? The abilities also seem to be calculated differently. The original Flash monster builder seems to calculate these 2 items more closely to the DMG. Other than that, I am really liking this beta tool.
#2 Belorin Aug 02, 2009 8:56:06	I believe it was said that the rules for these are from the DMG2, I just can't find the quote. Bel
#3 Ore Aug 02, 2009 11:24:41	You are correct, I saw it as well. New rules for monster creation are to be found in DMG2 and the Monster Builder is built on those rules. So what may look like a broken program (in regards to numbers) could possibly just be a case of we don't have the right set of rules yet. There is no way to know for sure until the DMG2 hits the streets.
#4 _Mithreinmaethor_ Aug 02, 2009 11:41:42	They changed how solos and elites were done in the MM2 and the rules for this change will be in the DMG2.
#5 rurouniq Aug 03, 2009 20:00:05	I noticed that fuzzy math as well... Every increase in level by 1 will increase all defenses and ToHit for all attacks by 1 each. Also, I noticed that the slightest increase in levels will raise the damage die type by 1 as well... Or was it just that I happened to hit the level at which those are raised? I had two level 4 monsters and 1 level 6 monster that I increased to level 7; all of them had their damage dice raised from d6s to d8s. Bug? New math? These things were stomping my level 8 party.
#6 ceiled Aug 04, 2009 13:20:16	Every increase in level by 1 will increase all defenses and ToHit for all attacks by 1 each. Actually, that's correct. From page 184 of the DMG: A monster's level determines its defenses. A given defense based on an average ability score is equal to 12 + the monster's level. So you see, given this guideline, raising an existing monster's level by 1 should also raise its defenses by 1. The same is true of to-hit bonuses. The "Monster Statistics By Role" table on page 184 will tell you that attack vs. any defense should be "Level + X", where X varies based on the role. This means that increasing level by 1 also increases all to-hit bonuses by 1. I had two level 4 monsters and 1 level 6 monster that I increased to level 7; all of them had their damage dice raised from d6s to d8s. Bug? If you look at the "Damage By Level" table on page 185 of the DMG, you'll see that it's broken down in groups of three levels. This means that level 4 and level 6 monsters both use the same damage entries, but level 7 monsters use the next entries -- I'm guessing the monsters you saw were using the Low entries, which is 1d6 + 4 for level 4-6, and 1d8 + 5 for level 7-9. So basically, it's by design that the difference between a level 6 monster and a level 7 monster is significantly bigger than the difference between levels 5 and 6.