Setting this feedback thread (very much) in advance for Randy's Digital Insider #10, due to go live tonight. (LIVE NOW)
That was an oops.
[1]And I take responsibility for my part in it, and apologize.
Not a lot of hard core crunch, but enough confirmation of things we suspected, and scheduling info to make it worth the read.
The compendium is not actually completely updated. For example, gnolls have been added but not their feats. Drow have been added and so have their feats from the FRPG but the ones in Dragon 367 have not. Same with Genasi...missing feats. It might be a small oversight or they might not have finished yet. I just wanted to point that out given the attention paid to it in the article.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify this point. You are correct.
The compendium is not finished, in fact it will never really be finished. It will constantly grow and inprove. We will continue to update the compendium with information on a monthly basis.
Hopefully by now you’ve rolled up a Barbarian and are enjoying the chance to playtest one of the coolest classes from the upcoming Player’s Handbook II. Judging by the forums, lots of you are
I'm surprised many have. I imagine most people made their characters and started playing before the Barbarian article came out, so they're either abandoning their previous character or there's a LOT of player-death going on....
Thank you for taking the time to clarify this point. You are correct.
The compendium is not finished, in fact it will never really be finished. It will constantly grow and inprove. We will continue to update the compendium with information on a monthly basis.
Oh, I understand this. It's just that the article stated that all material from dragon 367 had already been added. That is not yet true since the feats are not there.
Will the cost to be a DDI be lessed for the frist few months since so much of it is still missing?
The lowest price is $5 a month for a year subscription for both magazines and full access to the tools that are currently available.
Why can't they release information about what they are doing a few days before they actually begin the subscribing. Or why can't they start subscription payment while still in the 'this is free time.'
Also, is the 50 dollars (rough estimation) for the entire package - magazines, compendium, bonus tools, etc - or is it just for a fraction of the whole.
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It all comes down to the fact that I would very much like to know how things are going to work sometime (a day or so at minimum) before it actually works. That way I can make the necessary plans that need to be made so that I can get the subscription as soon as possible and not loose content due to the spontaneous nature of the revealing.
I plan on getting Insider the moment that I can, but I find myself getting more and more frustrated on how their is really a lack of information on how it will work from a monetary and such standard.
Why can't they release information about what they are doing a few days before they actually begin the subscribing. Or why can't they start subscription payment while still in the 'this is free time.'
Also, is the 50 dollars (rough estimation) for the entire package - magazines, compendium, bonus tools, etc - or is it just for a fraction of the whole.
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It all comes down to the fact that I would very much like to know how things are going to work sometime (a day or so at minimum) before it actually works. That way I can make the necessary plans that need to be made so that I can get the subscription as soon as possible and not loose content due to the spontaneous nature of the revealing.
The price is for the part of DDI that works. Right now web content works. The full package clearly does not work at this time however you are not being asked to pay for it. There might have been clarification concerning beta testers in that you need to pay to even have a chance to become one.
And whatever happened to the ten days free trial advertised in the back of the PHB??? surely that can't be a free trial of a free pre-release service can it?
Oh that was described as the ever open free trail when they said only human race would be available. At least it appears all core races will be there now, though yet to see. Besides who can get to level 4 in 10 days playing table top?
It is now about 4:20 AM EST
Guess WOTC is not taking the idea of an email lottery to get into the beta first hand. More people into the beta, the better and more likely someone would find an error. I guess you have to be a chosen one that knows someone at WOTC, sounds like nepotism to me. Or if you gotten to sign up at DD experience.
Alot of gamers did not have the chance to go to DD experience. You are not being fair. I for one am not going to kiss WOTC a$$ just so I can get into a beta.
I also don't like they pretty much give a timeline for everything in the report except for when the open beta starts, thats what everyone wants to know.
As far as the error saying this was going to go live at midnight PST. I understand it was just a minor error but WOTC really has to check this stuff before posting. With all the misleading info they have gave us in the past. They need to tripple check stuff.
And whatever happened to the ten days free trial advertised in the back of the PHB??? surely that can't be a free trial of a free pre-release service can it?
Free trials often require a credit-card first. You give them your info, they give you "x" days free, and if you don't cancel in that trial window, they start to charge you.
That you'll need a credit card "one day soon" neither confirms nor denies the existence of a 10-day trial.
"The closed beta will be limited to 3 categories of testers: 1) Folks who signed up to be beta testers at D&D Experience, 2) Hand-selected friends and family members of employees, and 3) Folks who subscribe to D&D Insider. "
Guess WOTC is not taking the idea of an email lottery to get into the beta first hand. More people into the beta, the better and more likely someone would find an error. I guess you have to be a chosen one that knows someone at WOTC, sounds like nepotism to me. Or if you gotten to sign up at DD experience.
Alot of gamers did not have the chance to go to DD experience. You are not being fair. I for one am not going to kiss WOTC a$$ just so I can get into a beta.
I also don't like they pretty much give a timeline for everything in the report except for when the open beta starts, thats what everyone wants to know.
As far as the error saying this was going to go live at midnight PST. I understand it was just a minor error but WOTC really has to check this stuff before posting. With all the misleading info they have gave us in the past. They need to tripple check stuff.
A closed beta isn't about being fair. It isn't even about getting a lot of people into the process.
It's about exposing product that's only been seen by internal eyes into a deliberately limited group of testers. A *slightly* extended batch of users who can take a fresh look at the software.
Open Beta is when you want to expose the software to as many people as possible. That's because in Open Beta you're (essentially) saying "hey, we're about to release this software, please help us find the last bugs - before our paying customers find them".
Further, they can't give a timeline on Open Beta, simply because they don't know what the Closed Beta testers will find. When the closed beta testers stop finding bugs/errors and the dev team gets those bugs fixed, then they'll open up the beta to the rest of the world.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have goals internally for when things will be opened up, but if they state those goals and miss them - well, your own post about needing to triple-check everything they say is exactly why they're avoiding giving any solid dates that have any chance of slipping.
This means the character builder will be significantly less useful unless world-specific sourcebook material is at least highlighted as such.
I know part of the idea is to try and make every book useful for everyone so everyone buys every book — but that just isn't possible and I need to have some control over my own game. If the character builder tries to follow the "sell it all" pitch, it's more a marketing tool than a functional one.
My campaign isn't set in the Forgotten Realms, and many of the options from that book aren't appropriate for my campaign. I may say yes to many of them, but it's on a case-by-case basis.
This means the character builder will be significantly less useful unless world-specific sourcebook material is at least highlighted as such.
I know part of the idea is to try and make every book useful for everyone so everyone buys every book — but that just isn't possible and I need to have some control over my own game. If the character builder tries to follow the "sell it all" pitch, it's more a marketing tool than a functional one.
I think that the demo at GenCon listed races/classes under the sources they were from.
My memory is fuzzy on that point, due to time, and the face that I may simply be confusing it with the way E-Tools supplied that information.
I wouldn't be surprised if that holds true, however.
"The closed beta will be limited to 3 categories of testers: 1) Folks who signed up to be beta testers at D&D Experience, 2) Hand-selected friends and family members of employees, and 3) Folks who subscribe to D&D Insider. "
Guess WOTC is not taking the idea of an email lottery to get into the beta first hand. More people into the beta, the better and more likely someone would find an error. I guess you have to be a chosen one that knows someone at WOTC, sounds like nepotism to me. Or if you gotten to sign up at DD experience.
Alot of gamers did not have the chance to go to DD experience. You are not being fair. I for one am not going to kiss WOTC a$$ just so I can get into a beta.
And then you continue reading onto the next paragraph where Randy says that after the closed beta, there will be an open beta, where anyone who wants to play with the character builder will be able to do so.
The Goblin Sharpshooter is another example. There are five entries of this monster - the MM one plus four different leveled ones.
When listing out a monster there is a "first appeared in" comment at a bottom with a link to more information about that product. I would appreciate it if the link would open up into a new window instead of the same window by default. If I click on the link I move away from the Compendium and I cannot go back - I have to relaunch the Compendium.
For LFR modules you link to the standard "adventures" page. Are you 100% sure that the adventures page will always contain a link to all adventures in LFR? Usually the pages go through some content changes as new rounds of modules are released and if the information on the module in question is deleted, the user may be confused as to why they went to the "adventures" page.
I do wish the encounter builder could list the stat blocks of the monsters you add to the encounter. This should be feasable if it's pulling from the same database as the compendium. Then you can run the whole encounter from one printed page, just like you'd get in a published adventure. That would be a serious value to me.
Maybe that's too much to ask, as it would allow you to run the game without having to crack the MM or log on to the compendium. However that's the kind of functionality I'd need for a 5-8 dollar subscription. As it stands I'm passing on the subscription and hoping to be able to buy the dragon pdf individually for $3 .
Best of luck on launching the service. I'll be watching.
I agree having the source link open a new window would be good. In the meantime, you can hit the 'backspace' key (in Firefox at least), to get back to the compendium without relaunching.
The D+D community has been burned several times by WoTC licensed/sponsored digital game aides (Master Tools/E-Tools, fiasco with CMP).
We should not have to pay for ANYTHING along these lines without being able to try it for free first.
NOT going to try the Character Builder under any subscription. I will only try it if WoTC offers up a free trial.
The D+D community has been burned several times by WoTC licensed/sponsored digital game aides (Master Tools/E-Tools, fiasco with CMP).
We should not have to pay for ANYTHING along these lines without being able to try it for free first.
There is going to be a free beta for it.
From the article:
1st) D&D Insider Subscriptions go on sale.
2nd) Closed Beta Testing for the Character Builder begins.
3rd) Open Beta Testing for the Character Builder begins.
4th) Character Builder gets added to the D&D Insider subscription.
The open beta will be open to *everyone*.
Well, that is a very good thing then!
(steps backwards, looks furtively for an exit...)
Improvements I want to see:
1) Flavor text added to all MM monsters. The descriptive text you have put in is nice but I want some basic text I can easily read off to my players. I realize doing that for all the monsters in all the adventures is not really feasible, so just the MM monsters will do.
2) Once you get the monster creator tool up it would be very nice if it was possible to make a monster and import it into the compendium. Yes I understand how hard that will be and there will be some legal considerations I am sure, but that would be one heck of a goal to shoot for, maybe in time for PHIII?
3) It would be nice if the first tab that displays after you search was the tab with the most data entries. So if you do a search for goblin the monster tab is automatically displayed. I think that will help people that have never used the system before, because they might just see the entries for Race and say “well this sucks” which is what I did the first time I used it months ago.
4) I had a 4th one but forgot… /sigh
you're going to start seeing a lot of leveled monsters which isn't really a value add.
What? Not a value add? being about to pull up an advanced monster in under 10 seconds at the table is not a value add? I about jumped out of my chair when I saw that... I guess your game is not my game, not that there is anything wrong with that, but I sure as heck see it as a value add.
4) I had a 4th one but forgot… /sigh
Now I remember.
4) You need a tab for Traps and Hazards as well as Skill Challenges.
The price is for the part of DDI that works. Right now web content works. The full package clearly does not work at this time however you are not being asked to pay for it.
I realize that Kentinal is not an offical WOTC Rep... But this statement has me concerned. I don't fault Kentinal for that, and recognize their good intentions.
But now I'd like a clarification.
My impression is that the current subscription cost will be the price for the reasonable and forseeable future. Even though not all the tools are functioning, they will be added and as a subscriber I'll have access to them when they're ready. Is that correct?
Or will there be an increase once the more sophisiticated tools are ready?
You see, I tell my friends that for the amount being charged that the subscription isn't that bad for just the magazines alone. The magazine content has rivaled and exceeded the modules in quality. When the tools, like the the Digital Tabletop, are added.. it will be that much better of a value. I rationalize that by subscribing early I am helping see those more sophisiticated tools reach their final development cycle. If this assumption is incorrect, I'd like to know.
In case you're confused by lots of text: should I expect the subscription fee to change once the bigger better tools are finished?
Right now I keep going back to Digital Insider #9 to find it. I love the idea. I like to know what is coming up in the week. I don't mind that its subject to change.
I just want a really obvious easy to find link, that is always there, and have it located where the magazines are.. so I can check it whenever I want.
I realize that Kentinal is not an offical WOTC Rep... But this statement has me concerned. I don't fault Kentinal for that, and recognize their good intentions.
But now I'd like a clarification.
My impression is that the current subscription cost will be the price for the reasonable and forseeable future. Even though not all the tools are functioning, they will be added and as a subscriber I'll have access to them when they're ready. Is that correct?
Or will there be an increase once the more sophisiticated tools are ready?
You see, I tell my friends that for the amount being charged that the subscription isn't that bad for just the magazines alone. The magazine content has rivaled and exceeded the modules in quality. When the tools, like the the Digital Tabletop, are added.. it will be that much better of a value. I rationalize that by subscribing early I am helping see those more sophisiticated tools reach their final development cycle. If this assumption is incorrect, I'd like to know.
In case you're confused by lots of text: should I expect the subscription fee to change once the bigger better tools are finished?
While it's unclear at this time if the addition of *each* tool will cause a price hike (IE $2/month more for the Builder, $1/month more for the Visualizer, $2/month more for the Game Table) or if they'll simply wait and introduce the full pricing when the full suite is done - the indicators have been that the pricing we enjoy now will *not* include the full suite of tools.
Kentinal and a couple others have even cited statements from WotC that - should you buy a 1 year subscription at today's pricing, then decide you want the full package when its ready, you'll be able to "cancel" the remainder of your subscription get a refund (or credit?) and then upgrade to the full package.
The bigger question, in my mind, is how will users access the Character Creator between its completion and the completion of the rest of the suite. (Bundled into the Web Content package? Introduce a new pricing tier?)
I'd love to see a link to the (always tenative) Magazine Editorial Calender everywhere associated with Dragon and Dungeon.
Right now I keep going back to Digital Insider #9 to find it. I love the idea. I like to know what is coming up in the week. I don't mind that its subject to change.
I just want a really obvious easy to find link, that is always there, and have it located where the magazines are.. so I can check it whenever I want.
I dunno about Obvious, but if you're on the DND pages, there's a link to the Editorial Calendar under the "Home" button on the left-hand menu.
I'd love to see a link to the (always tenative) Magazine Editorial Calender everywhere associated with Dragon and Dungeon.
Right now I keep going back to Digital Insider #9 to find it. I love the idea. I like to know what is coming up in the week. I don't mind that its subject to change.
I just want a really obvious easy to find link, that is always there, and have it located where the magazines are.. so I can check it whenever I want.
I have included it in my sig and will try to remember to change it when the next month comes out.
In case you're confused by lots of text: should I expect the subscription fee to change once the bigger better tools are finished?
Current expectations are that in the end there will be two pricing packages, a web content and a client package. What we currently have is the web content package and the full thing is the client package. So once they have all the tools working, you'll have to pay a higher price(10-15 dollars is the expected price) for the full package. Of course what the pricing scheme will be between now and then is anybody's guess.
Current expectations are that in the end there will be two pricing packages, a web content and a client package. What we currently have is the web content package and the full thing is the client package. So once they have all the tools working, you'll have to pay a higher price(10-15 dollars is the expected price) for the full package. Of course what the pricing scheme will be between now and then is anybody's guess.
I really, really hope that the two-pricing-packages scheme is what happens. I have no interest in the MS Windows computer game aspect of D&DI, and don't want to pay for it. My fear is that if they have the dual model, someone will look and see that too many people are only going for the magazines, look at all the money invested in development for the rest, and decide that everyone has to pay for everything or get nothing.
I dunno about Obvious, but if you're on the DND pages, there's a link to the Editorial Calendar under the "Home" button on the left-hand menu.
AIEEEE!
You'd be justified in teasing me. Thanks for not rubbing it in too much.
This is indicative that I'm not a DnD regular. I'm an old guy that has returned to the hobby with the new edition. I do come to the main page periodically in the last few months, but I never noticed that there. I've just never explored much of the rest of the website except the two Magazines and the DDI info.
And I like the magazines. They're doing a good job with them.
Another option is to Bookmark it.
Likewise this was a legitimate reply. I didn't mean to come across as snarky.. I just think it would be handy to have a link to the calender right close to where both magazines are accessed. If the Powers That Be don't agree, I won't be upset if they don't take my suggestion. After all, now I know where the link is.
I might be the only one that was clueless, but if not, may I humbly suggest this would be a good point to clarify next week? If not, then please disregard.
The $4.95 / month price covers Web content only (Dragon and Dungeon Magazines, the D&D Compendium, and the Bonus Tools). We will be charging more for access to the Character Builder, Character Visualizer, Game Table, etc. Our previously announced pricing for the full package (including both Web content and client applications) is $9.95 if you sign up for a full year (going up to $14.95 if you pay one month at a time).
If you get to the point where you agree that it is ready to launch, just show some restraint and hold onto it for a day or two to give notice, seriously...
"Surprises" of this sort are not conducive to building a good reputation.
And then you continue reading onto the next paragraph where Randy says that after the closed beta, there will be an open beta, where anyone who wants to play with the character builder will be able to do so.
I read that but why should only a chosen few get to try the beta first? If I want to do that I basically have to pay for it buy signing up for DDi. Don't try and tell me that that will not be a modivation to try and get people to sign up for DDi. A beta should be open. WOTC is holding it hostage.
I can wait for Dungeon and Dragon in the mean time.
This is my opinion. I want to get a subscription but again I feel we should not pay for the builder that is not near 100% and fully usable. So until then WotC will not receive payment from me.
When the builder goes full release, and the next product starts its closed beta period, will you cancel your subscription?
I read that but why should only a chosen few get to try the beta first? If I want to do that I basically have to pay for it buy signing up for DDi. Don't try and tell me that that will not be a modivation to try and get people to sign up for DDi. A beta should be open. WOTC is holding it hostage.
There is going to be an open beta after the closed beta.
If you want to take part in the beta of the Character Builder, you have to do absolutely nothing but wait.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with WotC using early beta access to try to encourage people to subscribe to DDI. With any MMO, if you pre-order, you get early access to the game. People who have bought stuff from companies are very often used as early testers for other products by that same company. When I was a subscriber to City of Heroes, I got early beta access to a whole bunch of stuff that the publisher was putting out.
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If you want to take part in the beta of the Character Builder, you have to do absolutely nothing but wait.
and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait........
and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait........
I guess you could keep complaining to keep yourself entertained. ',: |
What's missing (imho) are images, images, and images.
I would like to see an image library that includes *all* of the graphics from the books and modules. I want to be able to select a book and a page number, and be able to download reasonably high resolution jpgs that I can use with my group.
Things like:
- a map of Loudwater from the FRCG that I can print off and mark up for my players;
- a picture of a Kruthik Hatchling that I can show my players without using my big hands to cover the rest of details on the page;
- a diagram of the Monastery of the Precipice that I can project down on my table with my projector;
I read that but why should only a chosen few get to try the beta first?
That is the point of a closed beta. You get a small sample set of the users to test it before releasing it to the general public. How small is up to the company, but it is closed off to the public.
What we don't know:
1. How many people signed up at D&DXP.
2. How many friends and family each coworker is allowed to bring in
3. How many people are going to, or WotC suspects will, subscribe as soon as possible. (There was a survey on the site before they announced the Character Builder Beta asking what you thought of D&Di in it's current state and whether you were likely to purchase a subscription. They also talked to people at GenCon, so they may have high expectations)
The group above could (and probably will be) quite large. My rough estimate would be around 500 to 1000 people, probably closer to 500. Plenty of people for a Closed Beta.