Back from the Holidays
by Bill Slavicsek
We start off the new year with D&D Insider up and running. Dragon, Dungeon, and the D&D Compendium have provided the core of the experience thus far, but it doesn’t stop there...
Talk about this article here.
Well everybody, Digital Insider #20 was just posted and let me be the first to say "What non-sense is this?". All we get for our Digital Insider update this week is a vague excerpt from Monday's Ampersand. And this is the first Digital Insider in three weeks. Personally, I feel like WotC is leaving us out of the loop on something here. Either that or there's been absolutely no work on this project since Digital Insider 19. I know everyone was on winter break so we can't really expect much to have been done on this project, but I thought we would've at least gotten an ETA on the final Character Builder or a hint as to what part of DDI they will be working on next. I'm hoping we don't continue to see this cut and paste nonsense in the future but due to the changes WotC made before the break we now have the same person writing Ampersand and Digital Insider so I guess there's not a whole lot more insight we can get in Bill's DI update than what's he's already giving us in Ampersand.
[/rant]
I'm as speechless as he was.
That being said, with a little bit of reflection, I am not surprised. WotC got closed down by the snowstorms shortly after Di 19 came out, and has been pretty much closed since then.
Puts on VCL hat
I am having the other DI thread merged into this one
Takes off VCL hat
Even the filler Randy did a few months back where he just talked about a game he played wasn't like this. At least Randy's filler wasn't a direct copy/paste from some other article.
He didn't even give us a half-hearted, cheesy nod to the holidays, or some anecdote about how he spent the time he was snowed in. He practically plagiarized himself. My 8th grade English teacher would have hung me by my toes if I had done that.
Honestly, short of telling us "The Character Builder will be released in full on Jan XX, 2009. Oh and here's the release schedule we are aiming for with the next product." in a special news announcement tomorrow, I can't see myself forgiving him of this in the near future.
I have to admit that I am slightly disappointed by the lack of information in this edition of Digital Insider.
That being said, with a little bit of reflection, I am not surprised. WotC got closed down by the snowstorms shortly after Di 19 came out, and has been pretty much closed since then.
My first thought was "Drat...I was hopeing for more"
then I felt this overflowing sense of dread, fear, and turmoil..."Oh god if I am a little dissapointed the fourms are going to go nuts...they may call for poor bills head on a spike for this"
but I am hopeing next wensday we get a good update, (Crossing fingers) maybe the final date for the character builder...
Worst Insider.
Ever.
Even the filler Randy did a few months back where he just talked about a game he played wasn't like this. At least it wasn't a direct copy/paste from some other article.
He didn't even give us an obligatory cheesy nod to the holidays, or some anecdote about how he spent the time he was snowed in.
"And so it begins"My first thought was "Drat...I was hopeing for more"
then I felt this overflowing sense of dread, fear, and turmoil..."Oh god if I am a little dissapointed the fourms are going to go nuts...they may call for poor bills head on a spike for this"
but I am hopeing next wensday we get a good update, (Crossing fingers) maybe the final date for the character builder...
Sadly, I share your prediction. I tend to see the good in what WotC tries to do with DDI. Some might even label me as a cheerleader(though I don't agree). So when I start throwing down the doom and gloom, you know something has gone horribly wrong.
On the positive side it means non-subscribers can read what was in the Ampersand article it copied.
Thank you. I'm glad someone actually found some good in this situation.
Sadly, I share your prediction. I tend to see the good in what WotC tries to do with DDI. Some might even label me as a cheerleader(though I don't agree). So when I start throwing down the doom and gloom, you know something has gone horribly wrong.
you put it much better then I ever could
yes he had double articles ... yes it was winter break.... yes the last writer got laid off... so i wont be to harsh
but please please please impress me next week/month...
Even though I did not have to do this article for two weeks due to the holidays, I just decided to copy and paste something else for this week. I'm still in the holiday mode and heaven forbid I accually work today. If I accually work and give the customer base something useful in the articles, I may get laid off like WOTC did to the the people that accualy cared about the customer base and commucated good with them. ..... blah blah blah."
Thats what I got from this so called "update" and I use the term loosely. I can't understand how the heck WOTC feels they are doing good with the customer base with crap like this. The lied and mislead the customer base and game stores about the launch of DDi. Then they did not say anything to the customer base for two weeks after. I'm not going to cut them any breaks at all.
This is unfortunately what I have been expecting since the announced lay-offs. Simply put, it's not enough cooks in the kitchen causing the quality to drop.
/underwhelmed.
How the heck could we have missed it. Aside the fact that we havent had updates for 2 weeks (highly understand as it may be) we have been waiting for updates and news. A new year a new chance to come out strong.... and what do we get?
"Did you see yesterdays news that there is no news? In case you missed it let me repeat that we have D&DI stuff in the works coming soon!"
The layoffs/snow/holiday season reasons for delays and unimpressive quality was understandable at first guys. It wont last too much longer.
...we have D&DI stuff in the works coming soon!...
You are a sunny optimist!
The layoffs/snow/holiday season reasons for delays and unimpressive quality was understandable at first guys. It wont last too much longer.
Very much this.
DDI on the other hand seems to be a dead Alabatross around WotC neck. They set it up, killed it, and now they seem determined to parade it around. (Ok so that's a little melodramatic ;))
Colour me disappointed that we waited 3 weeks to see "what I said in Ampersand". I mean talk about plunging quality, it wasn't that long ago that I thought "this is the way it needs to go" when Bill took over the Insider report, now we have the worst one to date.
*sigh* They are making it hard to stay optimistic about DDi.
You are a sunny optimist!
I am an optimist on a great many things I shouldnt be. Sadly D&DI is no longer one of them
. I was being sarcastic about the devs lack of real content in their updates. Its like they have a mad libs template for these updates on D&DI. Just add in a new word to describe when D&DI is getting updated or a new adjective about how great it will be when it comes out.The page count in Dragon has plummeted, the number of articles is falling, and this 'news' update is pathetic, and thats being generous. And I'm a fan of DDI! I can see the sceptics and detractors saying 'told you so'.
Unimpressed.
... something has gone horribly wrong.
Indeed.
Part of the reason I don't like previews/playtests is that they're a substitute for effort. Effectively, rather than coming up with something new and original, they are just cut-and-pasting from a future product... there's no real effort, no real value added.
If you look in the SOW adventure, you'll note recycled artwork, cut and pasted from other books.
I've seen allegations that some of the content is recycled backhistory and such from earlier 3/3.5 articles...
When the news also becomes cut-and-paste, you've seen the trend continue.
Actually 4E is fine, lets not equate DDI with 4E. The stuff comming out for the game itself is as good as the stuff we got for any prior edition, and has less power creep making the game sustainable for longer.
I respectfully disagree, my group would argue there is less realism and more to try to keep track of with all of the different powers and marks. Yes there are feats to remember for 3.5 but your combat was still more streamlined, ranged, melee or spell roll to hit, pretty much that simple. Yes you must take into account modifiers but that was clear on both the DM screen and character sheets.
I suggest everyone now playing 4e try a couple of sessions of 3.5 for comparison then post what you think. There are some elements of 4e that I like better but overall I hold to my previous statement "4e was designed for digital gaming and without those tools pales to 3.5"
DDI on the other hand seems to be a dead Alabatross around WotC neck. They set it up, killed it, and now they seem determined to parade it around. (Ok so that's a little melodramatic ;))
Here I will agree 100% and if they are going to have any chance of keeping 4e viable they need to focus on the digital aspect.
STOMP
Takes off Edition War Stomping boots
Edit : Ninja'd by Mudbunny... back to complaining about cut-and-paste lack of effort issues.
And I'm going to avoid excessively dramatic statements because I'd like Mudbunny to pass this up the chain-of-command.
None of this looks good for the future of DDI.
Let me be specific about what and why:
1.) The DDI Insider columns by Randy B were, by in large, filler. I don't deny it. However they also conveyed leadership and direction. They were comforting even if they often amounted to a sales pitch (and truthfully every couple weeks he did have some definitive news to pass on).
I realize Bill S. probably has other job responsibilities, and the weather has been terrible. I'm not unreasonable. No ill will to Bill.
But with the layoffs, there has been an apprehension that "the King is dead!" And there is no Heir Apparent.
I have no perception that anybody is in charge of DDI, and it currently has been handed off to people who already have other job responsibilities. Consumer confidence is suffering as a result.
2.) The Fist of Mourning
I'm not in a position to review it, and it might be a fine adventure. I've been impressed with Robert S. so far. So this is no critique of him.
However, at a glance, it looks like somebody found themselves unsure of what the Dungeon Wednesday Offering was going to be. They panicked. They called Robert and asked, "Hey, can you write something up really quick? Because something went wrong and we've got a blown deadline here." The conclusion was reached, "You know, the PCs might not be 11th level yet, an extra Heroic adventure might work.. you know, just to make sure. We can fit that in without disrupting the next Chapter too much."
Almost but not quite completely recycled art from the core books. Art will get recycled because its bloody expensive, and I'm cool with that. But that supports the "Oh hell, I hope Robert can write something quick!" theory.
And the adventure might be great.. but the all important perception is that there's nobody in charge at DDI and its one big great cluster at WOTC right now.
I can live with that for January, bad weather and lay-offs... but lordy..
It feels like somebody needs to get "the House in order".
I mean, I'm stuck with a years subscription, but word of mouth will kill ya.
Usually there are DDI threads started about articles over at EN World the morning of and the day after. As of this writing- there are very little to none. As if nobody cares.
Previews are shortcuts to real product.
Now, Mudbunny, please tell them this.
The best way to inspire confidence is to deliver on promises. If you are afraid to make promises then you have cut yourself off at the knees. Not a smooth move Bill, not at all.
Puts on Edition War stomping boots
STOMP
Takes off Edition War Stomping boots
Not trying to have an edition war and not looking to upset anyone.
A lot has seemed to change around here. What happened to the forums being the place where you could give your opinions and hope for feedback without everyone getting upset if they don't share your opinion? Are community leaders and wizards staff going to sensor and shut down everyone who mentions the seemingly taboo subject of a previous edition?
I have given 4e a try and it does have aspects that are improvements. I aplogize I did not realize we could not mention flaws and make comparisons to other editions.
Yes this is the 4e digital forum, and I want to know where is all the promised content, the full builder, vizualizer, game table? How long should we tolerate empty promises?
Yes it was an atrocious news update because there is no news.
How long are we all going to kid glove this? If you say something they don't want to hear your post will disappear, how grown up is that?
As I said before I am looking for serious adult feedback not a war. Respectfully
How long are we all going to kid glove this? If you say something they don't want to hear your post will disappear, how grown up is that?
Never had a post of mine disappear, no matter how critical I've been. If you've had a different experience, I'd be somewhat surprised.
AAARGGH.. dragging back on topic...
Anyone else notice that the
As I said before I am looking for serious adult feedback not a war. Respectfully
Well stated, but I completely disagree with you.
Since I'm not a VCL or a Community Leader, or an employee- just an average joe, perhaps like yourself, I'll try to explain why you got stomped. At least the way that I see it.
You didn't comment on the DDI #20 article, and you weren't even on the general January offerings. Heck, you really didn't even talk about the previous months content.
You were talking about 3.5, and 'why not try 3.5 as an alternative to 4E'.
That's not an evil conversation but this isn't the forum for it. I think there's a place somewhere on this board where you can have that discussion, but this isn't the place to have that debate. Like talking about the first time you were intimate with another person in front of your kid's school board meeting. It's just not the right time and place for it.
There's also EnWorld, RPG.Net, and the Paizo Boards, those are better places for those sorts of discussion- though they get tired of comparisons between editions too.
Right here in this forum, this is about DDI and 4E. Censorship doesn't really apply, because lots of folks are saying critical things about DDI. But that's what you're missing -they're talking about DDI!
Now, I didn't write this in anger. Nor am I being sarcastic, or trying to be disrespectful. This is why I think you got stomped.
Lame.
This reminds me of the impressive launch of 4E on the site. You have a chance to really ramp it up, a new beginning, two weeks to write something from home (or, heck, two days at work - we've gotten a ton done here in the two days back), and he can come up with nothing? Two updates in a row with no content, two months of Dragon being lighter in content than when it was free.
It looks to me, someone that was a cheerleader in Sept-Nov, that WotC lured us in with superior free content, and is now decreasing quality and quantity while we are paying. If not for the compendium's usefulness to me, I'd be asking for my money back at this point.
Numerous questions have been raised in the last month, none have been addressed (which I predicted when they laid off the only two people that had seriously tried to communicate with us - I still hope I'm wrong here). WotC is just not good at relating to us, and at marketing itself and its products. This is not really that hard, frankly.
I pretty much agree with everything that jimmy olsen wrote. At this point, I'd recommend people not subscribe if their primary intersest is Dungeon or Dragon. It just isn't clear what we should expect for our money.
The compendium remains a great, useful too. The character builder looks like a great tool so far. Dragon has great content, for the few articles it now has. Dungeon has NOT kept its promise to always have three adventures.
Not trying to have an edition war and not looking to upset anyone.
A lot has seemed to change around here. What happened to the forums being the place where you could give your opinions and hope for feedback without everyone getting upset if they don't share your opinion?
They still exist. These are the same forums, however, this forum here is not for that topic. This forum is for the topic of discussing DI and, this thread, more precisely, DI #
Are community leaders and wizards staff going to sensor and shut down everyone who mentions the seemingly taboo subject of a previous edition?
Censor?? Shut down discussion?? That is an extremely large overreaction in my view. you would be *very* hard-pressed to find anyone in the DDI forums who would feel that I am attempting to stifle, censor or otherwise inhibit in any way the expressions of dissatisfaction that people may have towards WotC and DDI.
I have given 4e a try and it does have aspects that are improvements. I aplogize I did not realize we could not mention flaws and make comparisons to other editions.
If you wish to to a comparison of 4E and 3.5, the DI forums are not the place to do it. You might be better off in either the Previous Editions forums or the 4E General Discussion forum. However, keep this in mind: Going into the 4E forums saying "4E is a video game" or "4E cannot be played without digital tools" will not result in a thread that will be conducive to actual discussion. it will be amusing for a while, then the ORCs will shut it down for it becoming a flamewar, if the thread doesn't veer off into an edition war first and get closed down because edition wars are not permitted.
Yes this is the 4e digital forum, and I want to know where is all the promised content, the full builder, vizualizer, game table? How long should we tolerate empty promises?
Yes it was an atrocious news update because there is no news.
How long are we all going to kid glove this? If you say something they don't want to hear your post will disappear, how grown up is that?
If a post disappears, it is because something was said that crossed the CoC. VCLs *do not* have the ability to delete posts. There are only a few times where I will step into a thread as a VCL and request that a line of discussion be stopped. One is where it is clearly heading way off topic from the original topic of the thread. Another is where people are starting to tread into areas that are getting close to CoC violations. Beyond that, I interfere very little (essentially not at all) in the DDI forums.
As I said before I am looking for serious adult feedback not a war. Respectfully
I submit that the feedback that you requested in this post on the lack of indicated progress on the other tools, while present in your OP, was completely obscured by the "4E is a video game" tone that pervades your OP. While that may not be the tone that you intended to present (and I don't think that it was), that is the tone that is coming across. And it is my experience that sub-threads that start off with that tone go nowhere fast.
On the positive side it means non-subscribers can read what was in the Ampersand article it copied.
This made me laugh. If I may quote Jayne here...
"Ten percent of nothing is, let me do the math here, nothing into nothing, carry the nothin'..."
So the positive side is that the rest of us aren't paying for all the nothingness that some of you are.
To bring things to the issue of this forum I am troubled as a subscriber when it is stated that they "HAD grand plans" does this mean that they no longer do? Especially when that statement is followed up by "we are going to finish the character builder and then take stock of the situation".
Yes I have developed some misgivings with 4e but I have not given up on it entirely. I was and am still excited about the promised digital tools, and I hope wizards will not make what in my opinion would be a fatal mistake in shelving the project.
Dungeon and Dragon mag are still good sources for adventure and ideas, not sure if I would stay for just that however. Previews and play-tests are enjoyable in my opinion and I have had a lot of fun with the barbarian class; but when I am told that my insider benefit is mainly for that purpose and that it could be a year or more before information I have access to will be published I can't help but feel that both insiders and the general public are being taken advantage of.
I am sure that much of my waning love of 4e is due to the manner in which wizards has handled the entire release, promising the digital aspects and providing results more inline with past blunders.
Again I apologize for any offense that may have been taken from my previous posts that was not my intent.
Thank you for your responses.
Thank you for taking the time to respond with words, and not rage. It is much appreciated.
To bring things to the issue of this forum I am troubled as a subscriber when it is stated that they "HAD grand plans" does this mean that they no longer do?
I interpreted their "grand plans" as being the release of the entire suite of DDI tools all at once on the release of 4E.
Especially when that statement is followed up by "we are going to finish the character builder and then take stock of the situation".
This I read as "deciding which one we want to get out vs which one we need to get out." I mean, the Character builder is cool, don't get me wrong, I love it. Makes life much, much easier. And the visualizer is also very cool, but the meat and potatoes of the suite of tools is the Game Table, then followed by the dungeon builder, if you ask me. According to a post by WotC_DM:
I can say that the dungeon Builder is fairly close to beta, but still requires the capability to be updated, and we have been working on the character builder updater with the intent to use it for the other applications. So we have some integration steps to do for the Dungeon Builder to be shippable.
The Game Table (GT) and the Character Visualizer (CV) are in Alpha stage. If it was up to me only, I would have the Dungeon Builder (DB) released next, then the Game Table, then the Character Visualizer last, provided we can do this without endangering our monthly updates for the already released applications. I am giving you here my personal opinion, and you can believe I will support it internally.
They need to decide, according to my armchair decision making (which is made with no more info than you guys have, for people who would like to think that I know more) the following: what release schedule of tools (CV, GT, DB) allows us to keep a steady stream of things going out for our subscribers to use, entices new people to subscribe, and doesn't screw up updates to currently out tools, while at the same time not losing time in the programming.
Yes I have developed some misgivings with 4e but I have not given up on it entirely. I was and am still excited about the promised digital tools, and I hope wizards will not make what in my opinion would be a fatal mistake in shelving the project.
You are not the only one.
Again I apologize for any offense that may have been taken from my previous posts that was not my intent.
Thank you or taking the time to go into more detail over your concerns. I do really appreciate it, and hope to see you in the community more.
(frankly, first I'd fix the volume of articles "problem" in Dragon, and make sure I had at least three adventures for every Dungeon, but those resources are not the same as the develoment resources, so they should be able to do both)
I actually chuckled, a nervous chuckle, when I read Bill's latest. I've been up and down on 4e and DDI since the beginning (2007ish), but am now playing a couple 4e campaigns and am a 1 year subscriber. I still find it fun to play, and love much of the content which came out in the fall mags. This whole recent turn is just making me...sad, yep that's it. I was trying to figure out what the emotion is. You just can't read this repeat of the original depressing message and not feel like it's starting to collapse. Still hoping for the best, but since we lost Randy's regular commentary the whole thing feels quite abandoned.
Lastly, as I've mentioned in other posts, I for one would love to see the visualizer completed. The ironic thing, imo, is that it was one of the most heavily sold pieces originally. Maybe I'll blame this on my 4 year WoW addiction, but seeing my characters grow visually is kind of cool.
Still hoping for the best, and still hoping Wizards is reading their forums...
I can say that the dungeon Builder is fairly close to beta, but still requires the capability to be updated, and we have been working on the character builder updater with the intent to use it for the other applications.
while you say this is a very good indication, i say it clearly shows their lack of skill. if you build an application that you want to be updateable, you do this upfront. you make the meaty parts first, to have a proof of concept, and know you can finish up the rest in a quite certain and calculateable time. there's a saying that goes "80% of the software takes 20% of the time, and the other 20% takes 80%"
looking at DDI, this is clearly visible. they did the easy 80% first, were ready to demonstrate the easy parts (GUI, score manipulation, grafic representations - all those are rather easy things to do), and believed that they could make the schedule with "a little more work in the backend"
---
btw: when i asked "it only says 120 pages of content in the ad" back when i was still pondering if subscription without the ability to use any of their tools from home was feasible, most people were laughing it off as "that's their safety net" - seems to me like they really will be down to those figures repeatedly, or fill the issues up with previews.
btw: when i asked "it only says 120 pages of content in the ad" back when i was still pondering if subscription without the ability to use any of their tools from home was feasible, most people were laughing it off as "that's their safety net" - seems to me like they really will be down to those figures repeatedly, or fill the issues up with previews.
Dang it people. If you are going to complain about the D&Di at least check that your complaints are factually accurate. I am getting sick and tired of seeing people complaining about falsities or exagerations(I'm sorry I don't meant to target you whitebaron, but I've just been seeing it a lot in the last couple of days and I'm reaching my breaking point).Anyways, here are the page counts for all the D&Di issues of Dragon and Dungeon along with a monthly total.
Dragon 364- 85
Dungeon 155- 109
June Total- 194
Dragon 365- 80
Dungeon 156- 129
July Total- 209
Dragon 366- 87
Dungeon 157- 136
August Total- 223
Dragon 367- 75
Dungeon 158- 111
September Total- 186
Dragon 368- 100
Dungeon 159- 99
October Total- 199
Dragon 369- 71
Dungeon 160- 104
November Total- 175
Dragon 370- 66
Dungeon 161- 128
December Total- 194
August- 223
July- 209
October- 199
June/December- 194
September- 186
November- 175
Last month's Dragon was indeed quite short, but the total pages between the two magazines was just as high as the first issue(would have been higher had they not cut the AVII playtest from Dragon).
Anyways, here are the page counts for all the D&Di issues of Dragon and Dungeon along with a monthly total.
Last month's Dragon was indeed quite short, but the total pages between the two magazines was just as high as the first issue(would have been higher had they not cut the AVII playtest from Dragon).
Well they did say 120 pages of new content and some clearly consider a 3.X material adjusted to 4th stats as not all new content, that though would be the opinion of the reader as would be what they consider new content at all. *shrugs*
Well they did say 120 pages of new content and some clearly consider a 3.X material adjusted to 4th stats as not all new content, that though would be the opinion of the reader as would be what they consider new content at all. *shrugs*
That is true, however there were/are a fair number of people who were/are very excited at the bringing forward of 3.X adventures to 4E stats to play.
He could have, y'know, at least elaborated on what he cut and pasted or given us his take on it or SOMETHING.
This made me laugh. If I may quote Jayne here...
"Ten percent of nothing is, let me do the math here, nothing into nothing, carry the nothin'..."
So the positive side is that the rest of us aren't paying for all the nothingness that some of you are.
Well, to repeat the part of my post you omitted...
On the negative side said article didn't actually say anything.
At this point I'm rather glad I'm not paying. I keep reading here in the hopes of seeing some improvement worth my money, but at times WotC's handling of the DDi feels more like watching some sort of horrible accident in slow motion, knowing there's going to be blood everywhere, but that there's nothing I can do to stop it.
Well they did say 120 pages of new content and some clearly consider a 3.X material adjusted to 4th stats as not all new content, that though would be the opinion of the reader as would be what they consider new content at all. *shrugs*
Well if we really want to play that game, I'm sure that I could cut the page count nearly in half on almost any issue of Dragon they've done by excluding articles that cover "old" stuff.
Well if we really want to play that game, I'm sure that I could cut the page count nearly in half on almost any issue of Dragon they've done by excluding articles that cover "old" stuff.
Not my game, it is yours.
Depending on what ad is looked at of course makes it more interesting.
Current ad just promises 120 pages of content, the ad Whitebaron referred to I believe was the ad that said 120 pages of new content. All in all it still becomes the opinion of the reader what is considered new content under that advertisement.
So far as it goes 120 pages can always be managed as long as those pages contain content. In the end it still comes to the user to decide if those 120 or more pages are worth it.
All I tried to point out that page count was not the initial promise, and this DI #20 added to the ezine hardly strikes me (and it appears some others) as content at all. Just used up some words to reach a page count.
Not a major issue for me, however if I recall correctly you wanted to be factually accurate, this is just a case where the facts appear to have changed depending on what source the fact was taken from.
"This week, we've all returned from break -- an extended holiday break, thanks to a few rounds of snowstorms."
I ready this as " Hey guys, just because we coulnd't be physically at the work building we all decided to not do anything. Who cares if I have a perfectly good computer at home that can be used to write articles just fine, I'd rather not do anything"
I know if I tried to pull that at my work, I'd defiantly be in high consideration for a layoff
seriously wizards?
Yes, it is serious.
"This week, we've all returned from break -- an extended holiday break, thanks to a few rounds of snowstorms."
It was a hellish amount of snow and some people may not have been able to make it in to get their 'homework,' for the holiday break.
I ready this as " Hey guys, just because we coulnd't be physically at the work building we all decided to not do anything. Who cares if I have a perfectly good computer at home that can be used to write articles just fine, I'd rather not do anything"
See above statement, I was snowed in WI one year on December 20th, I really couldn't safely go anywhere until December 24th. And by than the last place I was going was into work. Than we had a holiday vacation break... I got back to work around the 3rd, and didn't take anything home.
I know if I tried to pull that at my work, I'd defiantly be in high consideration for a layoff
This depends on how people are paid, if they are paid by word... they get nothing for not producing, if they are hourly they are spending vacation pay or not getting paid, and if they are salary it could be a bad sign for them.
I guess my point is that I understand what the folks at WotC are going through. I understand the death earlier this year, I understand the holidays, I understand the snow, I understand the utter lack of ability to deliver a software product on the release date (seriously plagues most software designers), I understand the shake ups in CM, I understand the termination of people, I understand no GSL update, I understand a piecemeal release structure, I understand fluctuating content in the magazines, I understand sometimes having to use arcane methods to get the site to load correctly, I understand no release dates, I understand that this isn't E-tools, I understand that the rates are the same an MMO, I understand that they did not properly notify the the community of the delay, I understand they advertised the date in my books had nothing to do with their ability to produce, I understand material in issues I'll never use, I understand paying for material that will be rehashed in a book I will buy in the next few months, I understand not being able to print the magazines at Kinkos, I understand the charges, I understand the inability to cancel my service, correctly, I understand the inability to sign up for a single month, I understand the changes that come up, I understand recycled artwork...
The problem is that I am running into is that I am finding it hard to understand all that put together. We are not talking about single delays, we are talking about a myriad of issues... quality in some cases, to simple requests, to coding, and delays... this isn't 'we missed the date due to coding' or 'we are ironing out a few bugs' it's 'nothing is as promised, or is basically not even going to useable for the foreseeable future. DDI is rapidly becoming more than I can understand, which is what I remember happening with E-Toools, they bit off more than they could chew... and its sounding much like a repeat (with a bit more communication so we can watch the plane crash). Give us something real, give us a real success... Don't ask us to understand this or that, or apologize... put your money where the mouth is and succeed.
I'm trying to stay excited, but realistically I'm playing on OpenRPG, Skype, 3-D images taken from NWN and NWN2 and using an index file that I crafted to function as a compendium and index... and its working. Its not as pretty as the WotC stuff will be, but its working.
I understand.
dungeon as well as dragon should be a place for original, new content, that can be used in-game. editorials, previews, playtests and columns are a nice gimmick, but nothing anyone should consider new and original content.
Even if he could not have had access to a computer over the holiday, he could have written on paper (assuming he was not on vacation that whole time it was snowing).
There is no excuse for not delivering. The previous item had almost nothing either. This is about re-building trust with your customers - customers who you have failed to deliver to for months, customers who were barely communicated to until the fall (and then you laid off the guy that had at least fixed the communications' issues), customers that want to buy your product, if only you would enable paypal, answer their questions, and re-build your relationships with them.
Epic Fail with this #20 news item.
See, I could care less about the VTT. I want the character builder and dungeon builder first. Then I'd like them to build a monster/NPC builder that allows me to build new creatures, or level up/down existing creatures. That is useful to nearly every DM. The VTT is nice and I might use it, but it wouldn't be the next thing I worried about.
I agree. The character builder and dungeon builder are necessary first before the virtual gaming table will make sense. This is even phrased as such in the one sentence on the DDI home page,
And it’ll all come together with the D&D Game Table, which will allow you and your friends to share adventures—anytime, anywhere.
Therefore, this stated, the given expectation is that all the other bits are necessary components for the Virtual Game Table, and that it should be the last thing put into place.
look my 3 month experiment is all most over, DI#20 has done nothing to entice me to extend my experiment, dragons content has declined, dungeon is of little use to me, the CB is wonky at 3 levels, the compendium cant even give a accurate credit, the other tools well they where nifty for about 5 minutes. So why on earth should I re-up? the staff seems to be uninterested why should I be?
If you don't like the D&D Insider content, vote with your dollars. Cancel your subscription.
If you're unhappy with the content you're currently receiving - I hope you don't feel obligated to keep paying for D&D Insider.
It's always possible, of course, that things may change in a month or two, and you'll find it worth subscribing again at that time. Don't be afraid to cancel - if only because you can make it permanent or temporary based on your opinion of the service at a later date and time.
look my 3 month experiment is all most over, DI#20 has done nothing to entice me to extend my experiment, dragons content has declined, dungeon is of little use to me, the CB is wonky at 3 levels, the compendium cant even give a accurate credit, the other tools well they where nifty for about 5 minutes. So why on earth should I re-up? the staff seems to be uninterested why should I be?
It is entirely possible that the staff is not "uninterested" but rather putting more focus on getting the character builder up and running than informing the membership of what's going on.
That's just an educated guess based on my experience with how things go on City of Heroes and their boards, where the devs are often absent or near absent from the boards close to an issue release (and folks will often complain about lack of forthcoming information), as well as the fact that there's an event at DDXP that requires the character builder, from what I've been told of someone who will be there.
Myself, I'm currently on Trial Membership, but I like what I've seen in the Character Builder thus far that I know it will be worth it once it goes live to subscribe to get it.
But the others are right, if you are not happy then cancel your subscription (or don't re-up when your subscription is up if you've gone for the 3 month plan.)
It is entirely possible that the staff is not "uninterested" but rather putting more focus on getting the character builder up and running than informing the membership of what's going on.
That's just an educated guess based on my experience with how things go on City of Heroes and their boards
the difference here is, that those people writing up the content have a very minor role in the CB. (mostly testing and maybe some feature-requests) - the meat come from the devs, which is neither ken troop nor other of the content developers. so yes, the staff is kinda uninterested in the community, else they'd post more.
I guess my point is that I understand what the folks at WotC are going through. I understand the death earlier this year, I understand the holidays, I understand the snow, I understand the utter lack of ability to deliver a software product on the release date (seriously plagues most software designers), I understand the shake ups in CM, I understand the termination of people, I understand no GSL update, I understand a piecemeal release structure, I understand fluctuating content in the magazines, I understand sometimes having to use arcane methods to get the site to load correctly, I understand no release dates, I understand that this isn't E-tools, I understand that the rates are the same an MMO, I understand that they did not properly notify the the community of the delay, I understand they advertised the date in my books had nothing to do with their ability to produce, I understand material in issues I'll never use, I understand paying for material that will be rehashed in a book I will buy in the next few months, I understand not being able to print the magazines at Kinkos, I understand the charges, I understand the inability to cancel my service, correctly, I understand the inability to sign up for a single month, I understand the changes that come up, I understand recycled artwork...
The problem is that I am running into is that I am finding it hard to understand all that put together. We are not talking about single delays, we are talking about a myriad of issues... quality in some cases, to simple requests, to coding, and delays... this isn't 'we missed the date due to coding' or 'we are ironing out a few bugs' it's 'nothing is as promised, or is basically not even going to useable for the foreseeable future. DDI is rapidly becoming more than I can understand, which is what I remember happening with E-Toools, they bit off more than they could chew... and its sounding much like a repeat (with a bit more communication so we can watch the plane crash). Give us something real, give us a real success... Don't ask us to understand this or that, or apologize... put your money where the mouth is and succeed.
Brilliant.
You deserve a cookie!
The problem is that I am running into is that I am finding it hard to understand all that put together. We are not talking about single delays, we are talking about a myriad of issues... quality in some cases, to simple requests, to coding, and delays... this isn't 'we missed the date due to coding' or 'we are ironing out a few bugs' it's 'nothing is as promised, or is basically not even going to useable for the foreseeable future. DDI is rapidly becoming more than I can understand, which is what I remember happening with E-Toools, they bit off more than they could chew... and its sounding much like a repeat (with a bit more communication so we can watch the plane crash). Give us something real, give us a real success... Don't ask us to understand this or that, or apologize... put your money where the mouth is and succeed.
I'm agreeing with almost everything that you are saying here. I fear that the DDI is quickly becoming the Master Tools of 4E. I'm being even more concerned when, in the Ampersand article quoted for DI, I read:
After that… well, we’re working on that.
Uh oh. That appears to be the opening statement of scaling back what is promised. We were going to give you this for your money. Now, you'll be luck to get this limited set.
At the moment, I'm seeing Dungeon and Dragon and a couple of small tools. The only tool of interest is, to me, the character builder (so far). I'm extremely interested in the dungeon builder and possibly the game table. Of course, I'm wondering at this point whether they will ever be seen.
All I'm saying is that we need some kind of sign that DDI is not just new vaporware. By this, I don't mean another note that says "We're working on it." I think it is time that some programs were released to the subscribers. Sure, they would be buggy beta packages. I can live with that and, as long as it is posted that these were buggy betas, I think most people could live with it.
The one bit of slack that I will cut is on the game table. Since this seems to be a hosted app, it requires a lot of resources before going live. However, the dungeon builder doesn't. The visualizer shouldn't.
I really don't think DDI is going to become master tools at all. The products will come, the only thing to question is...how diminished will the user base of (and thus revenue from) DDI be when they are here.
calling the stuff vaporware is a bit jumping the gun.
If you don't like the D&D Insider content, vote with your dollars. Cancel your subscription.
I cancelled the auto renewal and have no intention on paying any more. maybe I will weaken but a 30 level beta ant going to do it for me.
I do voice my negativity with the last months, however...
I really don't think DDI is going to become master tools at all. The products will come, the only thing to question is...how diminished will the user base of (and thus revenue from) DDI be when they are here.
calling the stuff vaporware is a bit jumping the gun.
I agree. There may be others like myself who are waiting until the Character Builder goes live in full before putting down their money for a subscription.
See, in my case I wasn't going to subscribe, until I downloaded and tried the beta character builder and got hooked on it. Now, it simplifies things so much for me that I'm hooked and willing to pay for access to it, once it goes to full edition.
Seeing as the Character builder is set to be live no later than DDXP, that's not a long time to wait. I understand that you can win a prize or some such for building a 15th level character via the Character Builder at DDXP for the level 15 adventure that they are running, so that will probably have some impact on how many people do sign up and how much revenue rolls in.
Seeing as the Character builder is set to be live no later than DDXP, that's not a long time to wait. I understand that you can win a prize or some such for building a 15th level character via the Character Builder at DDXP for the level 15 adventure that they are running, so that will probably have some impact on how many people do sign up and how much revenue rolls in.
Only if that actually happens.
Only if that actually happens.
do you really, honestly, doubt that a CB for all 30 levels is far away?
do you really, honestly, doubt that a CB for all 30 levels is far away?
Can't speak for Aberzanzorax, but no. However, is it end-of-January near? Personally, I think "yes," due mostly to DDXP.
Can't speak for Aberzanzorax, but no. However, is it end-of-January near? Personally, I think "yes," due mostly to DDXP.
I have been wondering if I was the only person who expected a delay because of DDXP.
It is a major event. I would be more suprised if it did not cause a weeklong delay.
I have been wondering if I was the only person who expected a delay because of DDXP.
It is a major event. I would be more suprised if it did not cause a weeklong delay.
I was basing my position on the comment earlier that there was some kind of contest for level 15 characters created with the Builder. If that contest stays on the schedule, then I figure they'll have to get it out in time to make said characters.
I was basing my position on the comment earlier that there was some kind of contest for level 15 characters created with the Builder. If that contest stays on the schedule, then I figure they'll have to get it out in time to make said characters.
I base it on simply recognizing that they are going to send one or more of the development team to DDXP to show off what they have to date just as they did at Gen Con, not to mention sending several of the R&D staff there, and the general disruption caused by packing up a bunch of stuff to send on the road.
It is not outrageous, just something I have come to expect.
I was basing my position on the comment earlier that there was some kind of contest for level 15 characters created with the Builder. If that contest stays on the schedule, then I figure they'll have to get it out in time to make said characters.
well, they might drop it off the schedule once they realize they have not everything ready for that.
honestly, the CB's update function did not work before christmas, so they have about 3 work weeks to fix it to be ready for DDXP, as well as many many other bugs. (which in most SW-development environments, equates to about no time at all)
current running gag at our game table: "YOU CAN" (ranger)
do you really, honestly, doubt that a CB for all 30 levels is far away?
I have my doubts that a character builder for all 30 levels will be ready by DDXP.
Beyond that? I'm sure it will happen eventually, and, no, probably not too far away....
But I will ALWAYS doubt (at this point) whenever WotC says they're going to have X done by Y.....since I have never seen them do it.
They start doing it regularly and I'll start having more hope/optimisim. (see also the quote I quoted at the top of this page for a list of reasons why I don't have more hope/optimism)
I base it on simply recognizing that they are going to send one or more of the development team to DDXP to show off what they have to date just as they did at Gen Con, not to mention sending several of the R&D staff there, and the general disruption caused by packing up a bunch of stuff to send on the road.
It is not outrageous, just something I have come to expect.
I haven't seen any word of having DDI staffers at the show.
To date these are the only announced names I've seen:
There is a total of 5 Wotc folk confirmed for the show.
Chris Tulach - RPGA Content Manager
Stephen Radney-Macfarland - R&D
Bart Carroll - R&D
Chris Sims - R&D
Mike Mearls - Head of R&D something or another
I think I got those right.
Unless Bart or Chris are on the DDI staff, but I have the impression they're "rules guys".
Of course, WotC could still send more, but that's right from the show's organizer, and pretty recent.
Unless Bart or Chris are on the DDI staff, but I have the impression they're "rules guys".
According to this:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/news/20081112
They are:
Bart Carroll: D&D R&D Editor-in-Chief (D&D Insider)
Chris Sims: D&D R&D Web Specialist (D&D Insider)
Technically Bart Carroll is not technical staff, but Chris Sims definitely is from that title.
Of course, WotC could still send more, but that's right from the show's organizer, and pretty recent.
That is possible. I think it would be the slimmest official presence there in the last few years, and it would concern me greatly if it were not that they announced big things for 4E last year, and it really looked like they cancelled a 4E or LFR announcement at the last minute the year before. (Before the WotC meeting - "We have a big announcement!" At the meeting - "Oops, never mind.")
Then there is this:
http://www.nycomiccon.com/App/homepage.cfm?moduleid=2577&appname=100453
(Which I should really not be forgetting.)
Looking at the information, their floor booth is smaller only than the DC Comics booth, and about the same size as the Ubisoft Entertainment booth. Of course that does not include them having pretty much the entire 4th floor Galleria split between D&D and Magic gaming areas. They had a significant corporate presence last year, which is understandable given the nature of the show. (As a trade show, they need the publicity there a lot more.)
So it is quite possible they simply do not want to send so many people away for two weeks in a row, and DDXP gets the lower presence.
I still expect a schedule disruption from it, although I am sure everyone at WotC would be more than pleased if they had the completed character generator to premiere at NY Comic Con.
It was a hellish amount of snow and some people may not have been able to make it in to get their 'homework,' for the holiday break.
See above statement, I was snowed in WI one year on December 20th, I really couldn't safely go anywhere until December 24th. And by than the last place I was going was into work. Than we had a holiday vacation break... I got back to work around the 3rd, and didn't take anything home.
Just to add to your understanding...
Understand that the guy who knew to write the Ampersand column, knew to write the DI#20, as they are the same author.
There was no surprise for him that these things had to be done this week, he is one of the people that would have been involved in setting the schedule of when things got done (check his job title).
So the truth is that the snow storm, and the time passed since, including the 2 work days prior to posting DI20 gave time for it to be written. Especially when you remember that Ampersand was posted on Sunday night, and DI#20 came 2 days later.
No the storm is not an excuse at all for the copy and paste job.
And if you want to accept the excuse as a legitimate reason what should happen as a result? What is the natural consequence of this sort of failure? I would guess; reduced subscription => reduced income => lower investment in product => further subscription reduction => cancellation of products. (Or I guess Bill could loose his position with DDI, which I'd not wish on him either.. but lets face it continual dismissal of key personnel related to a project doesn't build customer confidence and thus see prior chain...)
Me, I don't want to see DDI turn into MasterTools 4E.
So I'm wondering just what Bill and the rest of the DDI team are going to do to restore the faith of the customer base so that DDI doesn't get chopped in 6 or 12 months time.
cut and paste? come on!
I want Bill's head on a pike! (J.K.)
The carelessness shown in this Digital Insider is disappointing. The lack of creativity, from a company that THRIVES on creativity (and intellectual property), is disappointing.
(Rhetorical questions
Dungeon and Dragon? ignore page counts and word counts. How much of this is neat? new? inspired? clever? interesting? are you getting something useful in every issue?
I feel the attitude conveyed by Bill's copy paste job are related to the same disappointment I feel with the ezines. It's not like Bill isn't a good writer or anything...we know that he knows how to professionally produce the written word in quality and quantity.
Thats the way i see it. We get frustrated with lack of action and/ or commication on WOTC part. But they will have something ready at the next big event to calm people down.
Anyways, here are the page counts for all the D&Di issues of Dragon and Dungeon along with a monthly total.
August- 223
July- 209
October- 199
June/December- 194
September- 186
November- 175
Last month's Dragon was indeed quite short, but the total pages between the two magazines was just as high as the first issue.
Right but interestingly your data also shows that the two issues before they moved to a paid model were the largest, and in fact the magazines had continued to get bigger and bigger each issue. So it seemed they were adding more content, until they got subscriptions then you have the two lowest issues.
Map of Mystery, was in the free issues of Dungeon, hasn't been seen since it moved to a paid model. The amount of recycled art seems to be on the increase too, and doesn't hold a candle to the days of the hard copy magazines.
Right but interestingly your data also shows that the two issues before they moved to a paid model were the largest, and in fact the magazines had continued to get bigger and bigger each issue. So it seemed they were adding more content, until they got subscriptions then you have the two lowest issues.
Map of Mystery, was in the free issues of Dungeon, hasn't been seen since it moved to a paid model. The amount of recycled art seems to be on the increase too, and doesn't hold a candle to the days of the hard copy magazines.
I think it is far more likely that the amount of content simply varies and they have good months and bad months.
And no no, the hard copy magazines were no where near as good as they are now(well Dragon at least). I was a subscriber from the early days of 3rd edition, and there is only one issue in that entire time that I would say was on par with digital Dragon(I think it was issue 300). Heck towards the end I was pretty much getting Dragon out of habit and for the comics. Of course all that is opinion, but then again so was yours.
I have a feeling the 30 level character maker will be ready by DDXP. Why? Because thats the next "cookie" they will throw out to the public.
Thats the way i see it. We get frustrated with lack of action and/ or commication on WOTC part. But they will have something ready at the next big event to calm people down.
Ironically, I predicted the same thing in the RPGA forums, but I did so on behalf of Murphy's Law.
I mean, if it only comes out the day before DDXP, or the day of DDXP, it won't help those of us already at the show (well. . . those of us without laptops and cellular modems anyhow. . . ).
So, seems we agree, but for different reasons. ;)