Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ridiculousthewarlock Nov 11, 2008 15:50:43	I dont know how much this corresponds to D&D rules, but i was under the impression that you didnt need to equip a holy symbol. Am I wrong?
#2 serphet Nov 11, 2008 15:58:08	its a "weapon" for implement powers. (this is a rules faq question)
#3 Mock Nov 11, 2008 16:15:56	Are you sure? The FAQ says that implements that are weapons (Holy Avenger, Pact Dagger) grant bonuses under enhancement, critical, and property, but I was also of the impression that unlike most things, you didn't have to actually hold a holy symbol - you could just wear it. Edit: Although a different question does say that if you are just "holding" an implement, you can't get the implement bonus. I just thought that holy symbols were an exception. Ah, here's the PHB on this (p. 236): "Unlike other implements, you need only to wear a holy symbol for its property or power to function." However, it makes no mention of enhancement bonuses, so I guess you do have to hold it for that.
#4 serphet Nov 11, 2008 16:19:13	I'm having a hard time seeing where it "says" you have to.... oh under Holy symbol, pg 236 paragraph 3... didn't know that... needs to be added into the char builder for sure, this is actually kinda big.
#5 Mock Nov 11, 2008 16:26:23	The question is now: When they say in that third paragraph, "you need only wear it for its property or power to function," did they intentionally not include "enhancement?" Given how the books are written, I actually think that's the case: you only have to wear a holy symbol to take advantage of the Power or Property described in the item statblock, but you have to hold it to take advantage of the Enhancement line. Dunno. Perhaps the Character Builder is trying to tell us something.
#6 WolfStar76 Nov 12, 2008 6:08:19	The Character Builder will grant the bonuses for a holy symbol to a class with that implement option merely for possessing the Holy Symbol. You don't need to equip it for the bonuses to apply.
#7 mdonais Nov 12, 2008 12:40:37	Right, the rule is you don't have to equip a holy symbol but you can equip one if you want to. If you have two holy symbols, equipping one will tell the software that you want to use it for your powers.
#8 ridiculousthewarlock Nov 12, 2008 15:13:48	thanks so much, staff!
#9 gmtroll Nov 14, 2008 8:11:14	If you have two holy symbols, equipping one will tell the software that you want to use it for your powers. A Holy Symbol slot for equipping the Holy Symbol of your choice would be nice, please :D . The current method of telling CB which holy symbol you are using causes problems with power card summaries when you also have more than one melee / ranged weapon you want equipped. For example I have a Cleric with: Holy symbol - I keep it, but not wear it, as it was given to me as an initiation rite Magic Holy Symbol + 1 - I wear this for the enhancement bonus Mace - again I keep for sentimental purposes and a backup Magic Mace +1 - equipped as main weapon. To tell CB I am wearing the magi holy symbol +1 I must equip it but I can only equip it to my main hand. CB reflects the enhancement bonus in all powers summaries with the implement keyword. Now when I look at the melee powers CB must decide which weapon I have equipped and thinks "I know I'll equip the mace" and all my melee power summaries are for the mace when I really want the magic mace +1 shown in the power card summaries. I guess that this is because mace appears before magic mace +1 in your equipment. And your equipment is listed in the order in that it appears in equipment list, first by item category and then item / weapon. You cannot alter this no matter what order you select your equipment.
#10 kave99 Nov 16, 2008 0:51:58	The same thing happens with rods, wands and orbs which are listed as " one-handed " too but I can't find any thing in the rules to that effect. It would seam that they should have the " off- hand" property, but that could interact badly with two weapon feats and some powers. So rather the CB needs to recognize all Implements as equip-able in both the main and off hand slot. Stave's and any others two handed weapon Implements should function as Implements in the off-hand but not as weapons. this should have little effect on game balance yet maintain a suitably cinematic appearance.
#11 mdonais Nov 16, 2008 5:10:16	Good suggestions we are working on the best way to handle this all.