Does the new CB work well if I Only want to use Essentials rules? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Does the new CB work well if I Only want to use Essentials rules?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
wickedmosher
Nov 27, 2010 18:27:17 Does the new CB work well if I Only want to use the DnD Essentials rules?

I just got back into DnD, haven't really played since 2nd edition. The CB program I downloaded two months ago works, but not for the new rules and characters that I have in the Essentials books.

Does anyone have some good information or is their a different thread that I can view?
#2
_Mithreinmaethor_
Nov 27, 2010 18:34:10 Yes it does. It does not have Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom in it as of yet however.
#3
wickedmosher
Nov 27, 2010 19:11:04 How well does the new CB work if I want to use Essentials only, but later in time, add in some of the rules/skills/powers from the rest of DnD4e?
#4
BaronFel
Nov 27, 2010 22:27:49 well currently the only compatible between the 2 are more race options, more classes, feats, and a few utility and daily powers (the level and type of power has to match so the Slayer and Knight don't really share much with the Fighter from the PH1.)

However yes you can use them. Though I think some of the bonus stacking is off.
#5
teldon
Nov 27, 2010 23:30:33 Actually yes and NO.

You're missing an entire book, a seciton of feats and a catagory of consumable items.

but if you don't mind only playing with HALF the essentials content, then yes you can.

Look for thew update sometime... in the future... sometime... don't bother trying to figure out when, WoTC will get around to giving up proper updates in a timely fashion once they've consumed and digested all theri holiday dinners.

While you wait you can always do some of it by hand. We haven't managed to find a way to break pen and paper yet.
#6
Plaguescarred1
Nov 28, 2010 0:35:55
How well does the new CB work if I want to use Essentials only, but later in time, add in some of the rules/skills/powers from the rest of DnD4e?

It work perfectly well for what you want. You even have the choice to do an Essential PC strickly using Essentials Rule and other allowed elements, say for the current D&D Encounters.

Wanna switch later to a more conventional Class of 4E ? Easy, when you make a character you select another option and everything is included.

Et Voila !

Plague

#7
thespaceinvader
Nov 28, 2010 2:54:22 Debatably. Technically, the Mage has all the options from HotFL I think, but you want a Pyromancer Mage who actually uses fire-based At-Will attacks... Well, HotFL doesn't have any, you'll have to get them from the Wiz... oh wait... you can't. That's the most glaring example I think.
#8
Kaviyd3
Nov 28, 2010 13:09:00
How well does the new CB work if I want to use Essentials only, but later in time, add in some of the rules/skills/powers from the rest of DnD4e?

If you want to do that at present, you would need to make a "home campaign" character and then select only options from Heroes of the Fallen Lands. If you make a "Quick Essentials" character, you are limited to that source for all options (with a few items from Dragon magazine thrown in). It is possible that a future update will let you broaden the options for an Essentials character already created, but that would only happen when the open up the online Builder to customization by the user -- not their highest priority at present.
#9
jeff-heikkinen
Nov 28, 2010 16:55:34 If you're okay with just HotFL, go for it, it will work fine.

With any luck HotFK will follow soon enough, though I advise only cautious optimism about this because who knows what WotC currently considers a normal update schedule. The new CB being less than two weeks old, there's no track record to judge by at the moment. It was going downhill fast in the last days of the old CB, but presumably that's because of the resources devoted to creating the new one, which hopefully is less of an issue going forward.

At the moment, any integration of Essentials with the rest of 4E powers-wise requires house rules anyway. This would be less of a problem if the current CB had anything like the capacity for house rules of the old one; as inadequate as those seemed at the time, they'd still be a huge improvement over the current CB in its present form. Who knows when or even if that will be fixed; again, I am at best cautiously optomistic about this.

I assume that full integration between Essentials and non-Essentials 4E products will be achieved once the Class Compendium comes out in February, so that's about two and a half months away PLUS however long it takes the book to make it into the CB after publication, which as I said, there is no track record to judge by at the moment.
#10
dbmeboy
Nov 28, 2010 22:41:02

At the moment, any integration of Essentials with the rest of 4E powers-wise requires house rules anyway.

Not quite, the Essentials books (HotFL and HotFK both) explain that you can take powers from other sources for the Essentials classes as long as the class, level, and type (attack/utility) matches (on pg 57 for either book). The online CB handles this correctly with "show additional options" box checked... except for mages' at-will attacks, making it impossible to build a pyromancer (except by hand-adding the powers and uploading, via the link in my sig).

#11
wickedmosher
Nov 29, 2010 9:37:08 Thanks for all the feedback.

I think for now, I will wait for the 2nd players book to update on the CB and them I might do a 1 month to try it out.
#12
andrewgr
Nov 29, 2010 22:08:36 I strongly disagree with the responses that you've received so far. There are so many bugs in the program that I do not believe it is useful, even for an Essentials-only character.

Just a couple of examples from my character: you can't have a shield and a holy symbol equipped at the same time, and when you re-train a feat, it prints both the old feat you no longer have and the new feat you do have out on the character sheet (and when using CB, you see only the old feat, with a note that it's been retrained, but it doesn't tell you what the feat you retrained it into is).

There are literally hundreds (that's not an exaggeration) of other similar bugs which will affect you, even if using an Essentials only character.

(And in addition to the outright bugs, there are also plenty of "by design" issues that make it virtually unusable; for example, the character sheet doesn't show the math for how it arrives at numbers, so for example if I set down my shield, I have no way of knowing which skills that affects, and by how much.)

I'm not a whiner, and I'm not nerd-raging; I'm offering you an honest, level-headed assessment that the current program is actually worse than useless; it will be more frustrating to use than pen and paper, and the numbers you calculate yourself are more likely to be correct than the ones the CB gives you, and you'll like your own format more.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wickedmosher Nov 27, 2010 18:27:17	Does the new CB work well if I Only want to use the DnD Essentials rules? I just got back into DnD, haven't really played since 2nd edition. The CB program I downloaded two months ago works, but not for the new rules and characters that I have in the Essentials books. Does anyone have some good information or is their a different thread that I can view?
#2 _Mithreinmaethor_ Nov 27, 2010 18:34:10	Yes it does. It does not have Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom in it as of yet however.
#3 wickedmosher Nov 27, 2010 19:11:04	How well does the new CB work if I want to use Essentials only, but later in time, add in some of the rules/skills/powers from the rest of DnD4e?
#4 BaronFel Nov 27, 2010 22:27:49	well currently the only compatible between the 2 are more race options, more classes, feats, and a few utility and daily powers (the level and type of power has to match so the Slayer and Knight don't really share much with the Fighter from the PH1.) However yes you can use them. Though I think some of the bonus stacking is off.
#5 teldon Nov 27, 2010 23:30:33	Actually yes and NO. You're missing an entire book, a seciton of feats and a catagory of consumable items. but if you don't mind only playing with HALF the essentials content, then yes you can. Look for thew update sometime... in the future... sometime... don't bother trying to figure out when, WoTC will get around to giving up proper updates in a timely fashion once they've consumed and digested all theri holiday dinners. While you wait you can always do some of it by hand. We haven't managed to find a way to break pen and paper yet.
#6 Plaguescarred1 Nov 28, 2010 0:35:55	How well does the new CB work if I want to use Essentials only, but later in time, add in some of the rules/skills/powers from the rest of DnD4e? It work perfectly well for what you want. You even have the choice to do an Essential PC strickly using Essentials Rule and other allowed elements, say for the current D&D Encounters. Wanna switch later to a more conventional Class of 4E ? Easy, when you make a character you select another option and everything is included. Et Voila ! Plague
#7 thespaceinvader Nov 28, 2010 2:54:22	Debatably. Technically, the Mage has all the options from HotFL I think, but you want a Pyromancer Mage who actually uses fire-based At-Will attacks... Well, HotFL doesn't have any, you'll have to get them from the Wiz... oh wait... you can't. That's the most glaring example I think.
#8 Kaviyd3 Nov 28, 2010 13:09:00	How well does the new CB work if I want to use Essentials only, but later in time, add in some of the rules/skills/powers from the rest of DnD4e? If you want to do that at present, you would need to make a "home campaign" character and then select only options from Heroes of the Fallen Lands. If you make a "Quick Essentials" character, you are limited to that source for all options (with a few items from Dragon magazine thrown in). It is possible that a future update will let you broaden the options for an Essentials character already created, but that would only happen when the open up the online Builder to customization by the user -- not their highest priority at present.
#9 jeff-heikkinen Nov 28, 2010 16:55:34	If you're okay with just HotFL, go for it, it will work fine. With any luck HotFK will follow soon enough, though I advise only cautious optimism about this because who knows what WotC currently considers a normal update schedule. The new CB being less than two weeks old, there's no track record to judge by at the moment. It was going downhill fast in the last days of the old CB, but presumably that's because of the resources devoted to creating the new one, which hopefully is less of an issue going forward. At the moment, any integration of Essentials with the rest of 4E powers-wise requires house rules anyway. This would be less of a problem if the current CB had anything like the capacity for house rules of the old one; as inadequate as those seemed at the time, they'd still be a huge improvement over the current CB in its present form. Who knows when or even if that will be fixed; again, I am at best cautiously optomistic about this. I assume that full integration between Essentials and non-Essentials 4E products will be achieved once the Class Compendium comes out in February, so that's about two and a half months away PLUS however long it takes the book to make it into the CB after publication, which as I said, there is no track record to judge by at the moment.
#10 dbmeboy Nov 28, 2010 22:41:02	At the moment, any integration of Essentials with the rest of 4E powers-wise requires house rules anyway. Not quite, the Essentials books (HotFL and HotFK both) explain that you can take powers from other sources for the Essentials classes as long as the class, level, and type (attack/utility) matches (on pg 57 for either book). The online CB handles this correctly with "show additional options" box checked... except for mages' at-will attacks, making it impossible to build a pyromancer (except by hand-adding the powers and uploading, via the link in my sig).
#11 wickedmosher Nov 29, 2010 9:37:08	Thanks for all the feedback. I think for now, I will wait for the 2nd players book to update on the CB and them I might do a 1 month to try it out.
#12 andrewgr Nov 29, 2010 22:08:36	I strongly disagree with the responses that you've received so far. There are so many bugs in the program that I do not believe it is useful, even for an Essentials-only character. Just a couple of examples from my character: you can't have a shield and a holy symbol equipped at the same time, and when you re-train a feat, it prints both the old feat you no longer have and the new feat you do have out on the character sheet (and when using CB, you see only the old feat, with a note that it's been retrained, but it doesn't tell you what the feat you retrained it into is). There are literally hundreds (that's not an exaggeration) of other similar bugs which will affect you, even if using an Essentials only character. (And in addition to the outright bugs, there are also plenty of "by design" issues that make it virtually unusable; for example, the character sheet doesn't show the math for how it arrives at numbers, so for example if I set down my shield, I have no way of knowing which skills that affects, and by how much.) I'm not a whiner, and I'm not nerd-raging; I'm offering you an honest, level-headed assessment that the current program is actually worse than useless; it will be more frustrating to use than pen and paper, and the numbers you calculate yourself are more likely to be correct than the ones the CB gives you, and you'll like your own format more.