Doppelganger Missing - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Doppelganger Missing

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sushijunkie
Jul 17, 2009 17:10:25 I made a doppelganger character in the builder before, and now that character is gone. I thought I accidentally erased it, so I go to make the character again and doppelganger is no longer selectable. The recent update removed doppelganger from the selection list.
#2
beej_silver
Jul 17, 2009 19:22:17 Changelings and Doppelgangers have been merged into the same race; ideally, your doppelganger character should have changed into a changeling (that sounded redundant on so many levels! lol shapeshifters :D ).

But your character got erased, you say? That's not supposed to happen, I agree.
#3
sushijunkie
Jul 17, 2009 20:47:47 It's possible I deleted it. I did clear out my characters from junk, and I could have gotten it accidentally.

But really? That.... really upsets me. As far as I see, changelings are more or less an overpowered version of the doppelganger. I have always hated Eberron as well... the fact that it is getting forced on me doesn't make things better. But thanks for that, it's good to know that it's at least not a bug or anything like that.
#4
taliesinangelus
Jul 17, 2009 21:57:07 They more clearly defined the shapeshifting ability so it is balanced. They also added a non-roleplaying racial ability. And they added two racial feats in the Eberron book (though they are not specific to that campaign), something Doppelgangers didn't have at all. I am not sure what is "overpowered" about their balance changes.

Please elucidate what you think is wrong because all I see are changes made to better explain and fill out the race.
#5
Janx_14
Jul 17, 2009 22:34:14 The doppelganger racial writeup was in essence an early version of the Changeling stats. As already stated their racial power was properly balanced, and they got a combat power, and the option to make them good at one of the classes that makes the most sense for them.

There is also nothing Eberron specific about the Changelings stats that make it hard to incorporate in any setting your Doppelganger character already existed. And since you have the CB, you dont even need to buy the Eberron book.
#6
Samrin
Jul 18, 2009 15:07:11 Changeling isn't Eberron specific, and the doppelganger was never intended as a PC race. Care to elaborate why you think the Changeling is overpowered?
#7
sushijunkie
Jul 18, 2009 15:18:34 I think the Changeling is OP since when I see changeling I see a doppelganger, and then some. In the long run it probably isn't overpowered, but they didn't need to remove the doppelganger altogether.

Also, what changes did it get to shape shifting that the doppelganger didn't have?
#8
Samrin
Jul 18, 2009 16:00:11 The shapeshifting power is weakened a bit, and it got the changeling trick. Doppelganger isn't a PC race and changeling is. That's why the doppelganger was removed. The Doppelganger is now the changeling in terms of PC races. It's basically for the same reason you don't see the MM version of the drow, warforged, and minotaur in the builder anymore. They've been replaced by the actual PC writeups.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sushijunkie Jul 17, 2009 17:10:25	I made a doppelganger character in the builder before, and now that character is gone. I thought I accidentally erased it, so I go to make the character again and doppelganger is no longer selectable. The recent update removed doppelganger from the selection list.
#2 beej_silver Jul 17, 2009 19:22:17	Changelings and Doppelgangers have been merged into the same race; ideally, your doppelganger character should have changed into a changeling (that sounded redundant on so many levels! lol shapeshifters :D ). But your character got erased, you say? That's not supposed to happen, I agree.
#3 sushijunkie Jul 17, 2009 20:47:47	It's possible I deleted it. I did clear out my characters from junk, and I could have gotten it accidentally. But really? That.... really upsets me. As far as I see, changelings are more or less an overpowered version of the doppelganger. I have always hated Eberron as well... the fact that it is getting forced on me doesn't make things better. But thanks for that, it's good to know that it's at least not a bug or anything like that.
#4 taliesinangelus Jul 17, 2009 21:57:07	They more clearly defined the shapeshifting ability so it is balanced. They also added a non-roleplaying racial ability. And they added two racial feats in the Eberron book (though they are not specific to that campaign), something Doppelgangers didn't have at all. I am not sure what is "overpowered" about their balance changes. Please elucidate what you think is wrong because all I see are changes made to better explain and fill out the race.
#5 Janx_14 Jul 17, 2009 22:34:14	The doppelganger racial writeup was in essence an early version of the Changeling stats. As already stated their racial power was properly balanced, and they got a combat power, and the option to make them good at one of the classes that makes the most sense for them. There is also nothing Eberron specific about the Changelings stats that make it hard to incorporate in any setting your Doppelganger character already existed. And since you have the CB, you dont even need to buy the Eberron book.
#6 Samrin Jul 18, 2009 15:07:11	Changeling isn't Eberron specific, and the doppelganger was never intended as a PC race. Care to elaborate why you think the Changeling is overpowered?
#7 sushijunkie Jul 18, 2009 15:18:34	I think the Changeling is OP since when I see changeling I see a doppelganger, and then some. In the long run it probably isn't overpowered, but they didn't need to remove the doppelganger altogether. Also, what changes did it get to shape shifting that the doppelganger didn't have?
#8 Samrin Jul 18, 2009 16:00:11	The shapeshifting power is weakened a bit, and it got the changeling trick. Doppelganger isn't a PC race and changeling is. That's why the doppelganger was removed. The Doppelganger is now the changeling in terms of PC races. It's basically for the same reason you don't see the MM version of the drow, warforged, and minotaur in the builder anymore. They've been replaced by the actual PC writeups.