Double Weapon Regression? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Double Weapon Regression?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
the8bitdeity
Dec 15, 2009 14:38:10 I'm not sure if I'm 100% accurate in this, but I get the impression we've had a regression in how Double Weapons are handled.

I can no longer choose Primary or Secondary end for powers, where I seemed to recall that was possible in the November update.

Can anyone confirm or am I inaccurate?
#2
Kaviyd3
Dec 15, 2009 21:50:19 I can definitely confirm your observation. The shop tab still shows the secondary ends of the weapons, but the power cards do not. Since nothing in the December errata update overrode the November update for double weapons, they should still work as they did last month -- but they don't.
#3
salla
Dec 15, 2009 21:52:33 Did you try right-clicking on the power cards and seeing if you could add the other side of the weapon with 'customize'?
#4
Kaviyd3
Dec 16, 2009 0:06:11
Did you try right-clicking on the power cards and seeing if you could add the other side of the weapon with 'customize'?

Yes I did -- but this month's version is definitely back to a single listing for each double weapon.
#5
the8bitdeity
Dec 16, 2009 11:16:43 Thanks for the confirmation, hopefully one of the WotC folks spots this.

I hate regression bugs.
#6
mdonais
Dec 16, 2009 16:03:12 Double weapons had to be totally re-written due to the rules update and this was a disadvantage of that. We have fixing this on the list though. Certainly tempest fighters will be wanting to use the off hand for some of their attacks at the least.

Thanks.
#7
the8bitdeity
Dec 16, 2009 16:15:37 But it was working after the initial double weapons rules updates, this seems specific to the December rules update, no?

Hence why I call it a regression.
#8
dm_raven
Dec 16, 2009 16:55:21 That was before the rule revisions as far as I know.
#9
the8bitdeity
Dec 16, 2009 18:27:48 Interesting, it seemed to have the November updates at that point with proper meta-data (stout, etc..) in that release.
#10
dm_raven
Dec 16, 2009 18:35:44 You may be thinking of an earlier one, as far as I know you could only use the primary end of a double weapon back in the November build.
#11
the8bitdeity
Dec 17, 2009 12:51:33 Fair enough. Hopefully it gets fixed "soon™".
#12
the8bitdeity
Mar 03, 2010 0:07:39 What's the current state of double weapon support?
#13
Kaviyd3
Mar 03, 2010 1:39:13 It looks like it is still broken. I created a Ranger who was proficient with the urgrosh and gave him a bunch of two weapon powers, including Twin Strike and Off-Hand Strike. All attacks (including those with the off-hand weapon) show d12 rather than d6 damage in all cases. Nowhere do I see damage for the secondary end of the weapon.
#14
MWSAber
Mar 03, 2010 10:18:04 on an old build of a Two Weapon Ranger the melee weapons do not seem to bee appaeraing on the cards or in the powers in the builder. Only Missile weapons seem to appear and be used in the calculations
#15
dm_raven
Mar 03, 2010 11:50:25 MWSaber, what power are the weapons not appearing for?

As for the double-weapon issue, it's a known issue that we're still trying to figure out a good way to address. With the current build of character builder, we don't have a good fix for the problem. We haven't forgotten it, we just don't have a good solution for it yet.
#16
MWSAber
Mar 06, 2010 13:52:29
Here is the output from the Character Builder:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Fenris Ulf, level 27
Half-Elf, Ranger, Stormwarden, Dark Wanderer
Build: Two-Blade Ranger
Fighting Style: Two-Blade Fighting Style
Ranger: Prime Shot
Background: Geography - Forest, Half-Elf - Wanderer, Half-Elf - Cultural Half-Elf (+2 to Perception)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 21, Dex 21, Int 19, Wis 18, Cha 15.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 14, Dex 16, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 11.

AC: 37 Fort: 35 Reflex: 35 Will: 33
HP: 178 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 44

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +22, Athletics +22, Endurance +22, Dungeoneering +22, Acrobatics +22

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +17, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +17, Heal +17, History +17, Insight +19, Intimidate +15, Perception +19, Religion +17, Stealth +17, Streetwise +15, Thievery +17

FEATS
Level 1: Lethal Hunter
Level 2: Action Surge
Level 4: Group Insight
Level 6: Agile Hunter
Level 8: Improved Initiative
Level 10: Brutal Accuracy
Level 11: Action Recovery
Level 12: Expert Tracker
Level 14: Prime Quarry
Level 16: Prime Strike
Level 18: Hunter's Resurgence
Level 20: Agile Athlete
Level 21: Blind-Fight
Level 22: Epic Resurgence
Level 24: Martial Mastery
Level 26: Evasion

POWERS
Dilettante: Cleave
Ranger at-will 1: Hit and Run
Ranger at-will 1: Careful Attack
Ranger encounter 1: Two-Fanged Strike
Ranger daily 1: Jaws of the Wolf
Ranger utility 2: Hunter's Privilege
Ranger encounter 3: Disruptive Strike
Ranger daily 5: Two-Wolf Pounce
Ranger utility 6: Serpentine Dodge
Ranger encounter 7: Claws of the Griffon
Ranger daily 9: Swirling Leaves of Steel
Ranger utility 10: Unbalancing Parry
Ranger encounter 13: Armor Splinter (replaces Disruptive Strike)
Ranger daily 15: Blade Cascade (replaces Two-Wolf Pounce)
Ranger utility 16: Shed the Mark
Ranger encounter 17: Blow-Through Assault (replaces Claws of the Griffon)
Ranger daily 19: Threefold Assault (replaces Swirling Leaves of Steel)
Ranger utility 22: Safe Stride
Ranger encounter 23: Nonchalant Collapse (replaces Armor Splinter)
Ranger daily 25: Bloodstorm (replaces Jaws of the Wolf)
Ranger encounter 27: Death Rend (replaces Two-Fanged Strike)

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Longsword (2), Paired Longsword +6, Sunleaf Hide Armor +6, Amulet of Protection +6, Longbow
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

One example is Blood Storm. It only allows a Longbow to be equipped.
#17
dm_raven
Mar 11, 2010 18:42:32 MWSaber,

I can't get this bug to reproduce on my build. Are you sure you have the two weapons in your inventory? Can you give me more details as to how you're getting this bug to occur? (I tried blood storm as you suggested)
#18
MWSAber
Mar 11, 2010 22:59:03 I noticed two things.

1. they appeared AFTER I re-equipped (they showed equipped on the shop page, I just re-did it)

2. All banked gold was "withdrawn" and I had to convert/bank again

BTW I also saw there is an update...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 the8bitdeity Dec 15, 2009 14:38:10	I'm not sure if I'm 100% accurate in this, but I get the impression we've had a regression in how Double Weapons are handled. I can no longer choose Primary or Secondary end for powers, where I seemed to recall that was possible in the November update. Can anyone confirm or am I inaccurate?
#2 Kaviyd3 Dec 15, 2009 21:50:19	I can definitely confirm your observation. The shop tab still shows the secondary ends of the weapons, but the power cards do not. Since nothing in the December errata update overrode the November update for double weapons, they should still work as they did last month -- but they don't.
#3 salla Dec 15, 2009 21:52:33	Did you try right-clicking on the power cards and seeing if you could add the other side of the weapon with 'customize'?
#4 Kaviyd3 Dec 16, 2009 0:06:11	Did you try right-clicking on the power cards and seeing if you could add the other side of the weapon with 'customize'? Yes I did -- but this month's version is definitely back to a single listing for each double weapon.
#5 the8bitdeity Dec 16, 2009 11:16:43	Thanks for the confirmation, hopefully one of the WotC folks spots this. I hate regression bugs.
#6 mdonais Dec 16, 2009 16:03:12	Double weapons had to be totally re-written due to the rules update and this was a disadvantage of that. We have fixing this on the list though. Certainly tempest fighters will be wanting to use the off hand for some of their attacks at the least. Thanks.
#7 the8bitdeity Dec 16, 2009 16:15:37	But it was working after the initial double weapons rules updates, this seems specific to the December rules update, no? Hence why I call it a regression.
#8 dm_raven Dec 16, 2009 16:55:21	That was before the rule revisions as far as I know.
#9 the8bitdeity Dec 16, 2009 18:27:48	Interesting, it seemed to have the November updates at that point with proper meta-data (stout, etc..) in that release.
#10 dm_raven Dec 16, 2009 18:35:44	You may be thinking of an earlier one, as far as I know you could only use the primary end of a double weapon back in the November build.
#11 the8bitdeity Dec 17, 2009 12:51:33	Fair enough. Hopefully it gets fixed "soon™".
#12 the8bitdeity Mar 03, 2010 0:07:39	What's the current state of double weapon support?
#13 Kaviyd3 Mar 03, 2010 1:39:13	It looks like it is still broken. I created a Ranger who was proficient with the urgrosh and gave him a bunch of two weapon powers, including Twin Strike and Off-Hand Strike. All attacks (including those with the off-hand weapon) show d12 rather than d6 damage in all cases. Nowhere do I see damage for the secondary end of the weapon.
#14 MWSAber Mar 03, 2010 10:18:04	on an old build of a Two Weapon Ranger the melee weapons do not seem to bee appaeraing on the cards or in the powers in the builder. Only Missile weapons seem to appear and be used in the calculations
#15 dm_raven Mar 03, 2010 11:50:25	MWSaber, what power are the weapons not appearing for? As for the double-weapon issue, it's a known issue that we're still trying to figure out a good way to address. With the current build of character builder, we don't have a good fix for the problem. We haven't forgotten it, we just don't have a good solution for it yet.
#16 MWSAber Mar 06, 2010 13:52:29	Here is the output from the Character Builder: ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Fenris Ulf, level 27 Half-Elf, Ranger, Stormwarden, Dark Wanderer Build: Two-Blade Ranger Fighting Style: Two-Blade Fighting Style Ranger: Prime Shot Background: Geography - Forest, Half-Elf - Wanderer, Half-Elf - Cultural Half-Elf (+2 to Perception) FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 21, Con 21, Dex 21, Int 19, Wis 18, Cha 15. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 17, Con 14, Dex 16, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 11. AC: 37 Fort: 35 Reflex: 35 Will: 33 HP: 178 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 44 TRAINED SKILLS Nature +22, Athletics +22, Endurance +22, Dungeoneering +22, Acrobatics +22 UNTRAINED SKILLS Arcana +17, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +17, Heal +17, History +17, Insight +19, Intimidate +15, Perception +19, Religion +17, Stealth +17, Streetwise +15, Thievery +17 FEATS Level 1: Lethal Hunter Level 2: Action Surge Level 4: Group Insight Level 6: Agile Hunter Level 8: Improved Initiative Level 10: Brutal Accuracy Level 11: Action Recovery Level 12: Expert Tracker Level 14: Prime Quarry Level 16: Prime Strike Level 18: Hunter's Resurgence Level 20: Agile Athlete Level 21: Blind-Fight Level 22: Epic Resurgence Level 24: Martial Mastery Level 26: Evasion POWERS Dilettante: Cleave Ranger at-will 1: Hit and Run Ranger at-will 1: Careful Attack Ranger encounter 1: Two-Fanged Strike Ranger daily 1: Jaws of the Wolf Ranger utility 2: Hunter's Privilege Ranger encounter 3: Disruptive Strike Ranger daily 5: Two-Wolf Pounce Ranger utility 6: Serpentine Dodge Ranger encounter 7: Claws of the Griffon Ranger daily 9: Swirling Leaves of Steel Ranger utility 10: Unbalancing Parry Ranger encounter 13: Armor Splinter (replaces Disruptive Strike) Ranger daily 15: Blade Cascade (replaces Two-Wolf Pounce) Ranger utility 16: Shed the Mark Ranger encounter 17: Blow-Through Assault (replaces Claws of the Griffon) Ranger daily 19: Threefold Assault (replaces Swirling Leaves of Steel) Ranger utility 22: Safe Stride Ranger encounter 23: Nonchalant Collapse (replaces Armor Splinter) Ranger daily 25: Bloodstorm (replaces Jaws of the Wolf) Ranger encounter 27: Death Rend (replaces Two-Fanged Strike) ITEMS Adventurer's Kit, Longsword (2), Paired Longsword +6, Sunleaf Hide Armor +6, Amulet of Protection +6, Longbow ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ====== One example is Blood Storm. It only allows a Longbow to be equipped.
#17 dm_raven Mar 11, 2010 18:42:32	MWSaber, I can't get this bug to reproduce on my build. Are you sure you have the two weapons in your inventory? Can you give me more details as to how you're getting this bug to occur? (I tried blood storm as you suggested)
#18 MWSAber Mar 11, 2010 22:59:03	I noticed two things. 1. they appeared AFTER I re-equipped (they showed equipped on the shop page, I just re-did it) 2. All banked gold was "withdrawn" and I had to convert/bank again BTW I also saw there is an update...