Dragon 399Nerathi Legends: The Seven Kings of Karkoth
By Richard Baker
In the heart of northeastern Selduria lies the homeland of a proud, cruel, and warlike race: the humans of Karkoth.
Talk about this article here.
Why is this in Dragon?
So they can meet their much lowered page goal.
But I'm definitely using this region more for my current adventures, as we already feature the Chained God, and luckily, the new monsters included were low paragon. Perfect for me!
Can't wait to get good version of that map.
Okay, it screams Dungeon i concur. But this is the Editor's Realms. Yes Steve, looking at you ...
An Astral Diamond shaped Cookie to Mr. Baker.
Why is this in Dragon?
This was my exact thought when I scrolled down and saw the monster stat blocks. What the heck is going on?
Why is this in Dragon?
This was my exact thought when I scrolled down and saw the monster stat blocks. What the heck is going on?
This trend started in the last couple of months. When questioned about it, Dragon editor Steve Winter said that the new policy was not to determine which magazine the material was more appropriate for, but instead to ask, "Is there any reason to keep this out of the players' hands?"
And if not, to include it in Dragon, even if the material is aimed at DMs instead of players. I'm not sure if they genuinely feel this would be worthwhile content for players to have (or, more specifically, more worthwhile than articles actually of use to players), or if it is, as some have suggested, tied into their lack of resources and need to pad out the magazine, even in its diminished state.
Of course, even that doesn't seem to hold up here, gvien the monster stat blocks, which do seem the sort of material to avoid offering to players... but it seems to be part of the new direction for the magazines, so given Steve's previous responses, it seems likely that we will continue to see this articles in Dragon instead of Dungeon where they belong.
All that said, I do like these articles and think they are pretty neat. I just wish that the magazines continued to have a decent balance of content for both players and DMs, instead of being so heavily weighted towards DM content the majority of the time.
I mean, it seems to me that there must be other reasons for putting these in Dragon besides padding out the numbers since the staff could have written a player focused article in the same time it took to write this one, right?
Don't dungeon and dragon have the same staff?
I mean, it seems to me that there must be other reasons for putting these in Dragon besides padding out the numbers since the staff could have written a player focused article in the same time it took to write this one, right?
Well, keep in mind that the in-house staff don't write every article - most are submissions done by freelancers or others in the field, which are then edited in-house and selected for the magazine. So it isn't quite that simple a matter to just swap one article for another, or write one topic in place of another.
It is entirely possible that the issue is that there is a lack of player-centric submissions, and that is why DM content is needed to pad out Dragon. On the other hand, the current magazine editing staff haven't indicated that there has been a dearth of submissions, and have on several occasions indicated an aversion to providing player options and content, so I'm less inclined to think that a lack of submissions is the issue.
Also, sticking monster statblocks in a player article is also silly. If monsters are considered "player friendly" content, then honestly, I think that just leaves Adventures in DM territory. Reading DMing advice as a player can either encourage the player to DM, or better understand what his DM is having to tackle, or understand how his DM could improve.
Seeing this in Dragon has made me irrationally mad.
I know this is just a game and nothing to be worked up over, but come. on.
How many proclamations of a "new direction" are they going to make and then ignore? How many times have we said almost the exact same thing ("What's this Dungeon article doing in Dragon?") and how many times have they claimed they were listening and things were going to change? How many times do the DDInsiders have to shout that they want Dragon to be the Player magazine?
Everyone has brought up great points. Having monster stat blocks (which should be kept out of Player hands) makes this a Dungeon article. PC Backgrounds in a regional background article would make this a Dragon article.
Just... just, could you guys just get it right, and keep it right, for once?
Having a hi res map would be Fantastic!
On the other hand, people will still complain.
I wonder if it wouldn't behoove the editors to combine the mags, give out a total page count goal and just designate an article player or DM.
On the other hand, people will still complain.
This would be the best solution.
Did this remind anyone else of Karrnath from Eberron? It's a proud, warlike nation in the northeastern part of an area which uses undead as an important part of their army. The land is gloomy and not densely populated. Even the names (Karkoth vs. Karrnath, Karkothi vs. Karrnathi). It may just be the impression I got from skimming through the article; I did see that there were some dissimilarities (multiple kings of roughly equal power, rather than a king and multiple scheming warlords).
Yes, it did rermember me of Karnath and with dark magic using nobles of Vaasa, too. But I don't mind. It's a successful mixture. I believe it's really hard to make something entirely new in a fantasy setting because there is so much that was before. I mean as a DM I do exactly the same when not using published settings. I take a little bit Realms, a little bit Eberron, Dark Sun, Nerath, Middle Earth, real world Roman Empire etc etc and mix it all together to "my own" setting
Fabulous Article ! I really liked Karkoth. I could run a campaign just with these 6 Pages. Light content, but enought to create a base ground with some history. With a cool mini Map Hey all good Papa.
An Astral Diamond shaped Cookie to Mr. Baker.
Yup, I immediately saw the campaign potential.
I also liked the inclusion of the Vault of the Drow on the map, it was a nice touch.
I wonder if it wouldn't behoove the editors to combine the mags, give out a total page count goal and just designate an article player or DM.
On the other hand, people will still complain.
For what purpose, though? The reason people are complaining is not that WotC is producing DM content, it is that they are producing it at the cost of player content, and that this is happening after the page count for the magazines dropped to 60% or so of its former content. Having that diminished content further reduced by replacing the player content with setting material like this is the source of the frustration.
Thus, combining the magazines but leaving the same imbalance would result in the same complaints, yeah. It would, in general, simply reduce the utility we already have (a clean division in content, in theory) in order to further disguise the reduction of content. So, yes, I imagine people would still complain.
Look, I know people have complained irrationally about all sorts of stuff involving DDI, and that it feels like no matter what WotC does, they can't win. But right now, what Dragon magazine advertises itself as offering ("new character options, new powers, new feats, new magic items, new paragon paths, epic destinies, and more.") just doesn't match what the subscribers are receiving.
Honestly, if WotC simply said up front that they are no longer providing that content, and that the magazines are being fully aimed at DMs at this point... well, yes, you'd still have people complain. But at least customers would be able to make an informed decision on whether to continue their subscription, and those not satisfied by the situation could simply stop subscribing.
But right now, what Dragon magazine advertises itself as offering ("new character options, new powers, new feats, new magic items, new paragon paths, epic destinies, and more.") just doesn't match what the subscribers are receiving.
When I place my mouse over the Dragon Magazine icon in the D&D Insider Tool Box, it says the following:
"New material and expanded content to help make your characters more fun and compelling."
On the Player Page, it states: "New feats, powers, magic items, and other character support" but that isn't specifically referencing the magazines. That seems to be discussing the website in general, including the Compendium and Character Builder as well as the online free articles and the magazines.
Honestly, if WotC simply said up front that they are no longer providing that content
Where are they saying they are providing what you have in quotations in the magazine?
Where are they saying they are providing what you have in quotations in the magazine?
On the DDI subscription page, as well as on the Dragon magazine summary page.
Fabulous Article ! I really liked Karkoth. I could run a campaign just with these 6 Pages. Light content, but enought to create a base ground with some history. With a cool mini Map Hey all good Papa.
An Astral Diamond shaped Cookie to Mr. Baker.
Yup, I immediately saw the campaign potential.
I also liked the inclusion of the Vault of the Drow on the map, it was a nice touch.
Note that Vault of the Drow has already been featured in Underdark. So we've technically already had part of Karkoth featured in a hardcover book!
More Nerathi Legend articles please. Since day one this was all I wanted out of DDI and 4e, so keep em coming Mr. Baker. This is great stuff.
Having a hi res map would be Fantastic!
I agree, would be nice to have a better map.Excuse my complete ignorance(I'm only just getting back into the game after a long hiatus) but where on the map is the Nentir Vale,if at all?
Many thanks
More Nerathi Legend articles please. Since day one this was all I wanted out of DDI and 4e, so keep em coming Mr. Baker. This is great stuff.
Having a hi res map would be Fantastic!
I agree, would be nice to have a better map.Excuse my complete ignorance(I'm only just getting back into the game after a long hiatus) but where on the map is the Nentir Vale,if at all?
Many thanks
The Nentir Vale is in the NW corner of the map.
Did this remind anyone else of Karrnath from Eberron? It's a proud, warlike nation in the northeastern part of an area which uses undead as an important part of their army. The land is gloomy and not densely populated. Even the names (Karkoth vs. Karrnath, Karkothi vs. Karrnathi). It may just be the impression I got from skimming through the article; I did see that there were some dissimilarities (multiple kings of roughly equal power, rather than a king and multiple scheming warlords).
Yeah i also found some similarities to it or even Thayan remotely
Fabulous Article ! I really liked Karkoth. I could run a campaign just with these 6 Pages. Light content, but enought to create a base ground with some history. With a cool mini Map Hey all good Papa.
An Astral Diamond shaped Cookie to Mr. Baker.
Yup, I immediately saw the campaign potential.
I also liked the inclusion of the Vault of the Drow on the map, it was a nice touch.
Also, Slaughtergarde in the north looks familiar and Deja Vu. Where was it from SoW ?
Very wrong magazine.
WotC, why do you put out an article I like, and then try to make me mad at it by putting it in the wrong place? Why did you deliberately garnish my delicious soup with this dead insect?
Whether you're splitting by 'player content vs. DM content' (frankly, a more useful division), or by 'should players have access to this', this article of setting information with monster stats included goes in Dungeon, not Dragon.
Still, very nice article. My thanks to the author.