My questions are thus...
- If you pick up a subscription, do you gain access to everything that has gone before?
- If you drop your subscription, do you lose access to everything that has gone before?
- There's been a load of useful stuff in the recent Dragon articles, including the Warforged race, feats, items and paragon paths for them. Gnolls and barbarians are coming up next, which obviously we'll have to pay for (sigh). But what if the Gnoll writeup sucks? What if it has no special feats? What if barbarian is a striker and I already have a striker? Can I get my money back?
- How much proof is required for GMs to accept Dragon magazine content? What if the GM doesn't have a subscription and the player "forgets" to bring the article?
- If I GM a game with a barbarian (or other "pay-only" race/class/etc), can I read the article which the player is required to bring to the table? Can I thereafter use the options presented therein?
- Can my local gaming group take out a year-long membership and allow dues paying members access to read it? Can they use items detailed within Dragon articles?
- Can a bunch of friends share an account?
- Will Dragon Magazine content eventually become "open" for everyone after, say, three months or do Warforged and Gnoll (both very powerful races) stay the mainstay of those who can/will pay?
- The barbarian writeup was, without justification, pushed back (it was meant to be this month). While I can understand some things getting delayed for a million reasons (balance, author commitments, deadlines, etc) the barbarian WAS meant to be free. Will the barbarian be released for free?
- There are certain things I DON'T want... the character visualiser for instance. I very much prefer to use my imagination or custom art to render my characters- particularly for things like warforged which are infinitely customisable. Can we get a package which DOESN'T include unwanted services?
I can see this causing a whole lot of problems for WotC.
So, dragon articles cease to be free in October.
My questions are thus...
- If you pick up a subscription, do you gain access to everything that has gone before?
The issues that have released so far as part of the free trial are likely to remain free. IE - you shouldn't need a subscription. I believe they'll stand out as "trial" issues for others looking into the magazines.
- If you drop your subscription, do you lose access to everything that has gone before?
The plan is that when you subscribe, you get an issue (like #370 for a semi-round number). You will always have access to that issue via your login, even if you aren't subscribed to future issues.
- There's been a load of useful stuff in the recent Dragon articles, including the Warforged race, feats, items and paragon paths for them. Gnolls and barbarians are coming up next, which obviously we'll have to pay for (sigh). But what if the Gnoll writeup sucks? What if it has no special feats? What if barbarian is a striker and I already have a striker? Can I get my money back?
Do you get your money back for an issue of any other magazine you've subscribed to if they have a "bad month?"
How much proof is required for GMs to accept Dragon magazine content? What if the GM doesn't have a subscription and the player "forgets" to bring the article?
Same as with any other rule source. If the GM says "I don't think that rule works that way" and the player doesn't have the source (or a copy) of that rule with them, the GM can adjucate the power to work how s/he sees fit.
At the most extreme, a GM could conceivably rule that no documentation, no character. (So I couldn't show up at a table, saying I'm playing a Flumpf based on the article in Dragon, then not have the issue with me).
If I GM a game with a barbarian (or other "pay-only" race/class/etc), can I read the article which the player is required to bring to the table? Can I thereafter use the options presented therein?
See above
Can my local gaming group take out a year-long membership and allow dues paying members access to read it? Can they use items detailed within Dragon articles?
Hmm. . . good question. IANAL but I'd wager "yes" - if the entity that "owns" the subscription is a group, then members of that group should be entitled to access.
The grey areas that I can forsee would be:
1) Can a group of people actually subscribe (or will the language of the subscription/EULA/etc state that only individuals may subscribe)?
2) Charging people dues and then allowing them to read the mags could be seen as re-publishing/re-distributing or some other "you can't charge people for our content" legal mumbo-jumbo.
I'd think that as long as you were doing it in good faith it shouldn't be a problem. If you're doing it to make a few extra bucks on the side, that's different.
Can a bunch of friends share an account?
Pretty much same as above.
Will Dragon Magazine content eventually become "open" for everyone after, say, three months or do Warforged and Gnoll (both very powerful races) stay the mainstay of those who can/will pay?
So far as I've seen magazines will be tied to subscription holders indefinately. Mind you, there's a good bit of content that may come in later publications (IE - Warforged will likely be in Eberron Player's Guide, Gnoll may arrive in PHB3, etc), which if you only want Dragon for "exclusivity," may work against you.
There's also word (based on people finding things on various bookseller websites) that Dragon may be compiled into a physical book every year and available for sale later. There are people who've found the mysterious title "Dragon 2009 Archive" or something like that on sites like Chapters.ca. Nothing official has been said (that I'm aware of) so speculation abounds.
The barbarian writeup was, without justification, pushed back (it was meant to be this month). While I can understand some things getting delayed for a million reasons (balance, author commitments, deadlines, etc) the barbarian WAS meant to be free. Will the barbarian be released for free?
According to the most recent podcast (#25 released Friday) the Barbarian was pushed back because the team in charge of the PHBII just didn't feel it was ready for publication yet. It's in editing now.
So it's been pushed back to the October issue.
Sometime in October is when they intend to start charging for D&D Insider (or at least the magazines, Compendium, and Bonus Tools). Even if the Barbarian was the first article released for the month, the expectation is that you'll have to be a subscribe to get the full issue PDF.
Of course, to be RPGA legal, you have to use the final compiled article from the completed issue at the end of the month.
In short - you may or may not get to read the article for free, but the RPGA-legal version will (almost certainly) be pay-only.
There are certain things I DON'T want... the character visualiser for instance. I very much prefer to use my imagination or custom art to render my characters- particularly for things like warforged which are infinitely customisable. Can we get a package which DOESN'T include unwanted services?
The current plan seems to be that D&DI will be split into two tiers.
1) What I'm calling the "Magazines Plus" subscription. Dragon, Dungeon, Rules Compendium, and the Bonus Tools. Basically, what they're offering starting next month. This appears to be an option for subscribers now AND down the road. They haven't stated officially yet.
2) The "full" subscription. All of the above, plus the Character Creator, Character Visualizer, Game Table, and other tools (the Vault, some GM tools, etc).
There are no "ala carte" options.
I can see this causing a whole lot of problems for WotC.
How so?
[EDIT]
I'm contemplating moving this thread to the D&DI forum as it isn't very RPGA specific, and you'll get more answers from the active community down there. Would you have any objection to it being moved if I left a pointer in place here?
Mind you, I think I've given pretty complete answers, but I'm a D&DI News Guide, so you got lucky.
You can buy the complete pdfs of dragon/dungeon later. For example, if you're cheerfully playing and someone shows up with a Barbarian and you see them play and go 'Oh, wow, that's perfect for me. I must play that' then you can shell out your money for the pdf after the fact and get it.
That's a good thing. I was worried that, when the kobold article is published (when- WHEN!), I would only know about it because people started playing them- and be unable to get one because that issue is "past".
The issues that have released so far as part of the free trial are likely to remain free. IE - you shouldn't need a subscription. I believe they'll stand out as "trial" issues for others looking into the magazines.
Cool, but what I meant was actually answered by the above, I think- that if, say, in December WotC publish a kobold article but I can't afford it till January (student, tight budget). I can still get the article if I want. Neat.
Do you get your money back for an issue of any other magazine you've subscribed to if they have a "bad month?"
I admit this question was a bit dumb, but the last Dragons (or is it Dungeons?) have all been editorials for the last month. While occasionally interesting to read, I really don't think a month of editorials is something I want. Of course, I'd rather not have all crunch and no fluff- a mix of both is nice! But it's just that... a mix.
Same as with any other rule source. If the GM says "I don't think that rule works that way" and the player doesn't have the source (or a copy) of that rule with them, the GM can adjucate the power to work how s/he sees fit.
Cool. I was more curious about the "Now I can play it..." part. If I sight the full and complete Barbarian notice and go, "Oh, right. 1st level at will powers are this, this, this... this many hit points, this many surges, these skills- I can make one of these!". Is that legal? In short- do you HAVE to be subscribed to use the sources and how rigorously is this going to be policed? I'm not supporting "piracy" (if that term can even be applied here), but as someone who frequently organises small conventions around the place I don't want to be forced into the role of de-facto copywrite cop.
Hmm. . . good question. IANAL but I'd wager "yes" - if the entity that "owns" the subscription is a group, then members of that group should be entitled to access.
I'd think that as long as you were doing it in good faith it shouldn't be a problem. If you're doing it to make a few extra bucks on the side, that's different.
My roleplaying group is not-for-profit. It actually costs me a not-intangible amount of my very limited income.
According to the most recent podcast (#25 released Friday) the Barbarian was pushed back because the team in charge of the PHBII just didn't feel it was ready for publication yet. It's in editing now.
As I wrote earlier I understand that things sometimes need to get pushed back- modules, articles, conventions (guilty look...) but I do think it's a little bit of poor form to take something that was offered for free, presumably to entice people into playing the new (expensive) rules system, then turn around and charge money for it instead.
I'm contemplating moving this thread to the D&DI forum as it isn't very RPGA specific, and you'll get more answers from the active community down there. Would you have any objection to it being moved if I left a pointer in place here?
None at all- go for it.
I still maintain that the D&D insider subscription model is probably going to cause WotC a lot of headaches- it's still what I'd term a "beta" product, with a lot of the initially planned features non-present or "coming soon". While we have had a free trial period, I don't think it's quite ready for payment yet- and honestly, I think it serves the community well being free. I understand it's not free to *produce*- but it serves as a powerful advertising tool which, at least for me, has caused me to come up with several more character ideas AND module ideas which ultimately results in me playing more. Which is good for the RPGA, good for WotC, and good for everyone else. Except the GM. It's never good for the GM when I'm playing... oh no.
If it did, it would bring up the unavoidable intellectual property questions -- could my husband use my Dragon subscription? What about my friend that lives with us?
Technically, it seems that you don't need to own anything to participate in the RPGA today. I happen to have every book I've managed to get my hands on, but I made my character at PAX (where there were Player's Handbooks available), and I could borrow a fellow member's Player's Handbook while I'm at a Game Day if I needed to level up my character. I can also borrow dice and a mini if necessary.
Playing in the RPGA is a strong incentive for players to buy books, but I don't see buying books as a requirement to play.
Are players going to have to bring copies of every issue they have grabbed a power or feat from? As a DM, there is no way I am going to let someone in with powers if I don't have the whole article available to me.
But as a player, having to keep track of copies of a half dozen articles for each of my characters would be a pain.
This is going to cause a lot of arguments when players show up at a game with characters that are using races, powers, classes and items from a dozen issues of material that the other players don't have access to.
How is that any different to a player who buys splat books having access to material that another player does not?
Follow your logic...Are you advocating everyone having access to all material for free, regardless of whether they purchase a book/subscription or not?
In that scenario, there's no incentive to buy books or subscribe, thus no money to pay authors and designers and very soon, no D&D.
The funny thing is, it's extremely easy to come up with perfect solutions to just about any situation, if you take away, you know, money. I hear it makes the world go round. ;)
Joe
But as a player, having to keep track of copies of a half dozen articles for each of my characters would be a pain.
Again, how is that any different for a Player's Handbook PC who has a Paragon Path from the FRPG, magic items from the Adventurer's Vault and Draconomicon, along with powers from the soon to be released Martial Powers book? What if the PHB2 has cool stuff as well?
Online content is no different from that in a supplement book. Actually I think it is more convenient due to the fact you can print one page out if the content is online, rather than having to lug the whole book around...
Joe
But, yes, if you take your character information from a variety of articles then you should have a small stack of printed pages. It is better than a stack of books, though
Having a subscription to Dragon doesn't have any influence on what you have access to as a player in the RPGA, right? I have a hard time imagining how such a system would work.
If it did, it would bring up the unavoidable intellectual property questions -- could my husband use my Dragon subscription? What about my friend that lives with us?
Technically, it seems that you don't need to own anything to participate in the RPGA today. I happen to have every book I've managed to get my hands on, but I made my character at PAX (where there were Player's Handbooks available), and I could borrow a fellow member's Player's Handbook while I'm at a Game Day if I needed to level up my character. I can also borrow dice and a mini if necessary.
Playing in the RPGA is a strong incentive for players to buy books, but I don't see buying books as a requirement to play.
This is going to cause a lot of arguments when players show up at a game with characters that are using races, powers, classes and items from a dozen issues of material that the other players don't have access to.
Are players going to have to bring copies of every issue they have grabbed a power or feat from? As a DM, there is no way I am going to let someone in with powers if I don't have the whole article available to me.
But as a player, having to keep track of copies of a half dozen articles for each of my characters would be a pain.
While I must confess it doesn't seem to be stated explicitly in the RPGA rules (which we all know need updating) or the CCG the rule in previous campaigns (or at least in Xen'Drik Expeditions) was that the player had to provide the rules if the content wasn't core.
We're a volunteer organization by far and large. We can't expect every DM to have every book plus a subscription to Dragon. Even if we could, when it comes time to travel to conventions, we can't expect them to empty their luggage of everything but D&D books (and since Dave C has worked on improving judge hygene for GenCon the last few years, we don't WANT to ask them that regardless).
Therefore it falls on the player to provide documentation of anything they can do that's outside the scope of the PHB.
If you have a power/feat/item that isn't from the PHB, but can't prove how it works by providing the source (either a photocopy or the book/issue itself) the GM has traditionally been within their rights to alter or deny that feature as they see fit.
This could use official documentation, admittedly, but it's a good rule of thumb I think.
Again, how is that any different for a Player's Handbook PC who has a Paragon Path from the FRPG, magic items from the Adventurer's Vault and Draconomicon, along with powers from the soon to be released Martial Powers book? What if the PHB2 has cool stuff as well?
Well, most groups that have regular drop in players or open games are playing in their FLGS or similar locations. In the worst case, most of the time the DM can at least take a quick look at a shelf copy of a book. With a potentially exclusive online source that is out.
Right now it isn't too bad, but a year or two down the line keeping track of the splat books will be bad enough, but a couple dozen magazine issues that many people have never seen with random stuff scattered throughout will be worse.
Well, most groups that have regular drop in players or open games are playing in their FLGS or similar locations. In the worst case, most of the time the DM can at least take a quick look at a shelf copy of a book. With a potentially exclusive online source that is out.
Firstly, home play dramatically exceeds retail and convention play. I would also suggest the amount of groups with access to a computer in the immediate vicinity (home, laptop w/wireless etc.) vastly outweighs groups playing in their friendly FLGS that;
1) don't have at least one owner of the required content, or
2) happily allows them to not buy the books and use the store as a library. What an admirable way to support the FLGS owner - he doesn't need to eat or pay bills, right? ;)
I believe if you use a Class, Power or Paragon Path, you should own the content it came from, or at the very least contribute to the 'group' purchasing of content. YMMV.
Joe
However, there is nothing in the CCG that says you have to have the rule with you at the table. Ultimately the DM is final rules arbiter and if you don't have the rule with you and the DM thinks it sounds a little off-kilter and asks to see the rules for it and you don't have them, they can rule that you can't use it.
I don't anticipate it being much of an issue, personally.
I feel confidant in saying that most open RPGA games with drop in players instead of fixed groups tend to be in game stores. Therefore, the situation where a player shows up with abilities and stats that no one else at the table is familiar with or has the ability to verify is going to show up there more often. And I have never found a FLGS owner who isn't happy to let a regular pull a book off the shelf to settle a dispute. Or at least not a successful FLGS owner.
I don't disagree that home play overall vastly outweighs public play. But home groups are not likely to have random players show up with characters generated from sources the rest of the group hasn't seen. While it may happen on occasion it would very much be the exception, not the rule. So, by and large, these concerns are a moot point. With a fixed group and private games, any new information sources are more likely to be talked over during game breaks than sprung on poor, unsuspecting DMs.
I feel confidant in saying that most open RPGA games with drop in players instead of fixed groups tend to be in game stores. Therefore, the situation where a player shows up with abilities and stats that no one else at the table is familiar with or has the ability to verify is going to show up there more often. And I have never found a FLGS owner who isn't happy to let a regular pull a book off the shelf to settle a dispute. Or at least not a successful FLGS owner.
There's a simple solution that Joe has already provided: print out all pages that contain content that you intend to use but don't intend to bring a hard copy of the source. This is no different (actually it's better) than the way it worked during LG and 3.5.
Some DMs will let you get away with anything, others won't let you use content without seeing it. I'm a pretty easygoing DM and if a player was using content that I wasn't familiar with, I wouldn't let him use it without showing it to me first (and a printed copy would do fine).
It's not worth the gamble.
There's also the non-dead-tree version, if you can bring your laptop with the PDFs downloaded.
QFE. I actually don't buy the physical copies of the books anymore. I've bought all of my 4th edition books online via drivethrurpg and download the copies of Dragon and Dungeon magazines so I have full access to my library during play or DMing. I know it can be distracting to have a laptop in front of you, but I don't feel its that much more than having a slew of books in front of you.
It helps that most of my gaming is online now, but I use the laptop when I can regardless. I just need to make sure to turn off the internet if I am at a physical game as to not get trapped in the Internet during the game ;). Although in all honesty I have found access to the internet to be a boon as well, especially with the bonus tools (mainly the encounter generator) from DDI and the ability to see answers to rule questions that there may already be.
All in all, laptops are actually a lot more useful than people give them credit for in terms of RPing. Obviously, not everyone will have one, but if you do don't just think that it will do more harm than good.
All in all, laptops are actually a lot more useful than people give them credit for in terms of RPing. Obviously, not everyone will have one, but if you do don't just think that it will do more harm than good.
Just put a picture on the back side of the monitor to blend it in with a DM screen!
Related: We used to play Descent frequently, but it was common that I'd need to look up details on a power or condition that just happened to be in the same book as all of the quests. Of course, that book sat right next to the Overlord and didn't move. I ended up downloading the rulebooks and all the errata for them.
I'm glad to see that WotC's plan is to take D&D into the Internet age. I just wish they were doing it a bit faster (with the game tools). And I also wish I had an e-reader that was as comfortable to use as a book, so I could page through the magazines at my leisure. Unfortunately, beyond the fact that such a device does not exist, the PDFs they're releasing have slightly odd dimensions which aren't convenient for e-reading (at least, not for me).