Druid - now Preview, not Playtest? Bad. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Druid - now Preview, not Playtest? Bad.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Haldrik
Dec 01, 2008 23:27:02 The Druid needs playtest and feedback.

The Druid is an iconic class and important to many D&D players. It requires extremely high quality design. Players also need to be happy with the flavor and direction of the class.

Even when there were only two levels available, players already detected design problems (like satisfying the definitions of the roles, doing all roles and thus becoming a one-man party in contradiction to 4e emphasis on teamwork, and so on) and errata (like Call of the Wild being an At-Will that forces players to attack eachother, and so on).

The class really needs feedback. Not getting it is a serious mistake that will haunt D&D 4e for the rest of its existence. The Druid is that important of a class.
#2
Haldrik
Dec 02, 2008 0:08:35 Hmmm.

Is it possible to do both? Preview and Playtest.

The Playtest can be open to non-subscribers. It includes everything from levels 1 thru 3. As far as I can tell, these levels are enough for players to understand the basic sense of the class and to detect any deep problems that the class may have. So as to fix it by the time of the publishing.

Meanwhile, the Preview can be open to subscribers only, and give all the information for one specific build, from levels 1 thru 30.

Of course, subscribers would also be playtesting these higher levels, but Im confident the higher-level problems will be superficial problems with specific powers. Not deep problems with the class itself.

The best of both worlds?
#3
Mock
Dec 02, 2008 7:12:33
Hmmm.

Is it possible to do both? Preview and Playtest.

The Playtest can be open to non-subscribers. It includes everything from levels 1 thru 3. As far as I can tell, these levels are enough for players to understand the basic sense of the class and to detect any deep problems that the class may have. So as to fix it by the time of the publishing.

Meanwhile, the Preview can be open to subscribers only, and give all the information for one specific build, from levels 1 thru 30.

Of course, subscribers would also be playtesting these higher levels, but Im confident the higher-level problems will be superficial problems with specific powers. Not deep problems with the class itself.

The best of both worlds?

That's how I'd do it, though I'd switch the terms to stay consistent with what they've done previously (e.g., Artificer and Barbarian).
#4
griffonheart
Dec 02, 2008 11:04:57 I agree, giving level 1-3 to everyone who comes to the site with the promise of the other 27 levels (or at least a selection of the powers) is available if you subscribe would be a solid business model and satisfy everyone who comes to the site. Free content is important, especially if you want to attract new players, but for those of us who have subscribed there should be a little something extra.
#5
Haldrik
Dec 05, 2008 12:05:20 Im surprised by the low rating for the thread (currently 2 stars). I suspect, subscribers dont want to pay for either playtesting or previews. Period. They want stand-alone content that will continue to remain useful.

For me, thats just as well. I feel strongly playtesting should be free anyway, so the largest number of D&D players possible can contribute to making the class more robust. Especially, iconic classes.

There seems to be two different needs for 'playtesting' a class.

On the one hand, its necessary to provide information for all of the class builds. Itd be dumb to just have one build get scrutiny, while the other builds get published with all kinds of errors and oversights. Levels 1 thru 3, is enough to get a good understanding of the class concept, design, and playability. These three levels should be available for all class builds.

On the other hand, a number of posters said they need the information for higher levels, so they can playtest the class by making a new character for their current campaign, which is usually above level 3. In this case, levels 1 thru 30 for a specific class build is necessary.

Perhaps both sets of info - levels 1-3 for all builds and levels 1-30 for one build - should be available to nonsubscribers for free.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Haldrik Dec 01, 2008 23:27:02	The Druid needs playtest and feedback. The Druid is an iconic class and important to many D&D players. It requires extremely high quality design. Players also need to be happy with the flavor and direction of the class. Even when there were only two levels available, players already detected design problems (like satisfying the definitions of the roles, doing all roles and thus becoming a one-man party in contradiction to 4e emphasis on teamwork, and so on) and errata (like Call of the Wild being an At-Will that forces players to attack eachother, and so on). The class really needs feedback. Not getting it is a serious mistake that will haunt D&D 4e for the rest of its existence. The Druid is that important of a class.
#2 Haldrik Dec 02, 2008 0:08:35	Hmmm. Is it possible to do both? Preview and Playtest. The Playtest can be open to non-subscribers. It includes everything from levels 1 thru 3. As far as I can tell, these levels are enough for players to understand the basic sense of the class and to detect any deep problems that the class may have. So as to fix it by the time of the publishing. Meanwhile, the Preview can be open to subscribers only, and give all the information for one specific build, from levels 1 thru 30. Of course, subscribers would also be playtesting these higher levels, but Im confident the higher-level problems will be superficial problems with specific powers. Not deep problems with the class itself. The best of both worlds?
#3 Mock Dec 02, 2008 7:12:33	Hmmm. Is it possible to do both? Preview and Playtest. The Playtest can be open to non-subscribers. It includes everything from levels 1 thru 3. As far as I can tell, these levels are enough for players to understand the basic sense of the class and to detect any deep problems that the class may have. So as to fix it by the time of the publishing. Meanwhile, the Preview can be open to subscribers only, and give all the information for one specific build, from levels 1 thru 30. Of course, subscribers would also be playtesting these higher levels, but Im confident the higher-level problems will be superficial problems with specific powers. Not deep problems with the class itself. The best of both worlds? That's how I'd do it, though I'd switch the terms to stay consistent with what they've done previously (e.g., Artificer and Barbarian).
#4 griffonheart Dec 02, 2008 11:04:57	I agree, giving level 1-3 to everyone who comes to the site with the promise of the other 27 levels (or at least a selection of the powers) is available if you subscribe would be a solid business model and satisfy everyone who comes to the site. Free content is important, especially if you want to attract new players, but for those of us who have subscribed there should be a little something extra.
#5 Haldrik Dec 05, 2008 12:05:20	Im surprised by the low rating for the thread (currently 2 stars). I suspect, subscribers dont want to pay for either playtesting or previews. Period. They want stand-alone content that will continue to remain useful. For me, thats just as well. I feel strongly playtesting should be free anyway, so the largest number of D&D players possible can contribute to making the class more robust. Especially, iconic classes. There seems to be two different needs for 'playtesting' a class. On the one hand, its necessary to provide information for all of the class builds. Itd be dumb to just have one build get scrutiny, while the other builds get published with all kinds of errors and oversights. Levels 1 thru 3, is enough to get a good understanding of the class concept, design, and playability. These three levels should be available for all class builds. On the other hand, a number of posters said they need the information for higher levels, so they can playtest the class by making a new character for their current campaign, which is usually above level 3. In this case, levels 1 thru 30 for a specific class build is necessary. Perhaps both sets of info - levels 1-3 for all builds and levels 1-30 for one build - should be available to nonsubscribers for free.