Remember what we used to call these? Web enhancements.
(They were free).
I think that forumgoers should push for these things "the chaff" that they use to "fill up" Dungeon and Dragon when they don't have real content to go into the FANTASTICALLY LACKLUSTER "Features" tab.
So, how bout moving the previews where they belong? In the free part of the site...and keeping one of your promises? (Or should we pay to playtest your betas?)
EDIT: It has come to my understanding (post #6) that there is free content within Dungeon and Dragon magazine aplenty. Does this make sense? If it is part of the magazine that you pay for, shouldn't it be for purchaser's eyes only? I think they need to move any and all free stuff to the features tab of the site...or find some better way to reorganize content, and not pad paid for magazines with free material....what are you REALLY paying for? Even if it is not part of the magazine proper, why put it under the magazine tab??
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To begin with, how about a subforum for "website features"?
Also, why is the RPGA report in Dragon? I know it's found on other parts of their site, but why here too?
For padding.
Finally, I thought Ampersand was supposed to be the & between Dungeon and Dragon. Why is that pay for play as well?
MORE padding.
Also, why is the RPGA report in Dragon? I know it's found on other parts of their site, but why here too?
For padding.
Finally, I thought Ampersand was supposed to be the & between Dungeon and Dragon. Why is that pay for play as well?
MORE padding.
(which I was unaware it was fulfilling, but in a disorganized way...this is an edit based upon Calite's post in #6)
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Remember this:
(from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dred/20080214a )
All emphasis added.
Remember this:
(from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dred/20080214a )
The Other Side of the Fence
Dragon and Dungeon Magazines have now been added to the site as D&D Insider subscription components, but -- as we originally announced at Gen Con -- the free component of the website will remain as well.
The magazines will add the excellent columns, departments, and features that have long been part of their print versions. On the other side of the subscription fence, the free component of the website will continue its mandate of -- in part -- introducing our current line of products. We believe strongly in our goal of producing the absolute finest roleplaying books and accessories for use in your game, and we need the website to do its job of best presenting our current releases. That's why we list them right there on the front page, host interviews with the authors, select excerpts, and preview what's coming up.We want you to know which supplements, adventures, and miniatures are coming out, we want you to know you can always find that information here, and we want you to be as excited about using these releases as we are about creating them.
But that being said . . . the D&D website (and here I'm primarily speaking of the free component) looks to be more than mere product endorsement. At least, we'll continue to strive to make sure it's more than that. In part, here's how:
This website is meant to make the products you buy as useful as possible for your game, whether by offering web enhancements, adventure hooks, or other tools to support them.
This website is meant to answer your questions about the game, through Ask Wizards answers, the FAQ, or more conversationally through the D&D Podcasts.
And, this website is meant to help celebrate the game, the gamers, and gaming lifestyle.
All emphasis added.
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December 2008:
Threads that Connect (steal this hook)
Manual of the Planes (spotlight interview)
Plague of Spells (spotlight interview)
November 2008:
Fighting Men (D&D alumni)
Draconomicon (spotlight interview)
Martial Power (spotlight interview)
Martial Power Wallpaper (wallpapers)
The Trash Cart (vicious venues)
October 2008:
Start Here (D&D alumni)
Wildfire Dangers (steal this hook)
Fungi Thicket (vicious venues)
September 2008:
Further Exploring the Nentir Vale (steal this hook)
Forgotten Realms Wallpaper (wallpapers)
all easily found at:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4mst/features
That's it.
December 2008:
Threads that Connect (steal this hook)
Manual of the Planes (spotlight interview)
Plague of Spells (spotlight interview)
November 2008:
Fighting Men (D&D alumni)
Draconomicon (spotlight interview)
Martial Power (spotlight interview)
Martial Power Wallpaper (wallpapers)
The Trash Cart (vicious venues)
October 2008:
Start Here (D&D alumni)
Wildfire Dangers (steal this hook)
Fungi Thicket (vicious venues)
September 2008:
Further Exploring the Nentir Vale (steal this hook)
Forgotten Realms Wallpaper (wallpapers)
all easily found at:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4mst/features
That's it.
You're paying for most of that now.
That's ok...they switched models. I'm not arguing everything should be free. I am saying that they're padding their magazines with stuff that you shouldn't have to pay for (previews and playtests mainly).
Edit: and apparently padding a "paid for product" with free materials as well?
December Free Content:
Free: Excerpts: Manual of the Planes
Free: Excerpts: Plague of Spells
Free: Digital Insider 17
Free: In the Works
Free: Excerpts: Manual of the Planes
Free: Excerpts: Manual of the Planes
Free: Spotlight: Manual of the Planes
Free: Podcast
Free: Steal This Hook
Free: Digital Insider 18
Free: Excerpts: Manual of the Planes
Free: Excerpts: P2 Demon Queen's Enclave
Yet to be released but promised this month:
Free: Art Gallery: P2 Demon Queen's Enclave
Free: Map Gallery: P2 Demon Queen's Enclave
Free: Digital Insider 19
Free: Use This Book Tonight
Free: Art Gallery: Manual of the Planes
Free: Podcast
Free: Art Gallery: Issue Compilation
Free: Art Gallery: Issue Compilation
Free: Map Gallery: Issue Compilation
Free: Digital Insider
That overall looks pretty much as promised for the Free Content to me.
Is it badly organised? Yes
Is it existing and free? Yes
Now if you want to complain about the issues with Dragon being turned largely into a vehicle for promoting this months release, and Dungeon loosing content this month (2 adventures and a side trek come one guys...) I'm going to be understanding. But complaining about the free stuff is off base I think.
I was (unknowingly) posting from a position of ignorance.
I've stopped going to the Dungeon and Dragon tabs as I assumed they were all limited to purchasing members of the magazines.
It IS poorly organized. Either it is or isn't part of the magazine...which are to be paid for, at least in my understanding.
My contention that there is not enough free stuff is rescinded.
My contention that they are "padding" a paid product with material that used to be free and that, IMO, SHOULD be free (previews and playtests) stands firm.
In my opinion, here is the "padding":
Things that shouldn't be under those tabs: anything free.
This includes the RPGA report.
This includes ampersand (which should be free, but isn't to my understanding)
This includes the stuff in the features tab (which is in the correct location, go WotC!)
This includes everything you mentioned in you list (and again, thanks).
What remains in the magazines after that free stuff? What are people actually paying for? That is the real point of this thread. It seems that they are just "reorganizing" web enhancements (making some things pay for, some free but "Dungeon" or "Dragon" content, and keeping some in the features tab to give the illusion that they haven't just moved them all to the emags....which fooled me).
(Since I was basing my posts off of false assumptions, I'll "remove them" not by deleting, as that could get confusing), but I'll sblock them.
Thanks again.
I couldn't. I got Dungeon (which has a 4th ed adapatation of the first adventure in a series of three that came out for 3rd ed--when they really were mismanaging the mags and parts 2 and 3 never came out).
I couldn't figure out Dragon. After looking at it and looking at the other threads here, I really have no idea what kind of content I'd be getting if I subscribed.
So there were 4 playtests originally that were "mislabeled"...or correctly labeled and then "reframed" when people complained.
One is apparently not on the ToC. I can't seem to find the Invoker and Druid previews on the ToC. The other ones were re-labeled.
Then there is all that free content Calite pointed out that is under the Dragon and Dungeon tabs, but is or isn't part of the magazine. I'm not sure...It's under the tab, but not on the ToC.
What a mess. I don't know heads or tails of it, and I used to know this website really, really well.
The best I can figure was from this helpful post:
There is one Playtest article this month, featuring items from the Adventurer's Vault 2. It is currently missing from the Table of Contents, but listed in the Editorial Calendar and was mentioned as being in this month's issue.
This month also will have previews of the Druid and Invoker; originally, these were labelled as playtest articles, which was a mistake.
Additionally, the article on Mercykillers was listed as a playtest, which was also incorrect.
Thus... the confusion. While I think the claims about this month's issue having reduced content are exaggerated, I do emphasize with the frustration over the calendar snafu, especially as having some confusion on either that, or the Table of Contents, seems to be becoming a bad habit. It isn't the end of the world, but it is something I would hope to be the exception, rather than the rule.
My negative way of seeing it:
-There IS a playtest article, but it is not on the ToC: Adventurer's Vault 2
-Previews of Druid and Invoker were "mislabeled" as playtests...I think they intended them to be, but then they weren't complete enough...remember what they did with the Barbarian article?
-Mercykillers was a playtest? OR was it a preview? Or what was it/is it? I don't have access, but it sounds like a preview of their planar book.
-What about the other two: Mual-tar and the Dragon stuff...I've seen people claiming those were previews/playtests as well at one point.
I guess, I'm just really confused, and continue to have the sense that I don't want to buy these magazines. I'd like both the confusion and the products to be cleaned up...because I would like to get them, but I can't see how I would want to do that now.
That leads here atm:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20081201a
This is free access. (Its also on the "What's New?" tab of the central thing on the front page)
It tells you what is free access and what is not free access for a given month. Its not always up to date however (see In the Works not being linked to December and Beyound and Digital Insider 18 not being linked), but at least its better than trying to sort through the chaos of the rest of the site. Also using the RSS option makes it a lot easier to keep track of new content (ie abandon their useless navigation and just use the RSS).
Now so far there really isn't anything in Dragon that hasn't appeared there before aside from the playtests; though the previews of the classes etc are far more extensive than they have been in the past.
The fact that old things like "Steal this Hook" and "Viscous Venues" are now burried and or irregular is perhaps a problem.
The main issue is that they are simply trying to cram to much stuff on the front page/website and the whole thing has ended up being to badly organised and difficult to use. Seperating the insider off to dndinsider.com and making all the insider content accessible through there might improve things but I cannot be certain.
I couldn't figure out Dragon. After looking at it and looking at the other threads here, I really have no idea what kind of content I'd be getting if I subscribed.
Here is how to read it:
1) The Table of Contents lists the main content in Dragon each month. The one in the current month is missing one article listing, the Adventurer's Vault 2 Playtest. While that is a mistake worth correcting, I don't see it as nearly as complicated as you are indicating.
2) The Editorial Calendar lists all the timetable of this content, as well as the free content, which is largely upcoming previews for the products hitting within a month. They also now seem to be offering bonus previews to the DDI subscribers, of content that is several months away from release - such as the Invoker and Druid previews this month.
Again, while some of the incorrect labels were annoying, I'm not seeing any great difficulty in checking out what isn't available. I'd like to see them avoid these problems in the future, sure, and more organization wouldn't hurt - but I don't think it is really accurate to claim that the information is as confounding as you believe. Right now, most of the issues that seem to be confusing you are due to random rumors and claims on the forums, rather than the content on the website, which is (mostly) complete.
My negative way of seeing it:
-There IS a playtest article, but it is not on the ToC: Adventurer's Vault 2
This is correct.
-Previews of Druid and Invoker were "mislabeled" as playtests...I think they intended them to be, but then they weren't complete enough...remember what they did with the Barbarian article?
This is incorrect. They have said they were intended to be previews from the start - which, judging by the content, and the fact they aren't counted as full feature articles in the month, seems accurate. Sure, you could assume they are lying and it is a grand conspiracy... but there doesn't seem to be any reason to do so.
-Mercykillers was a playtest? OR was it a preview? Or what was it/is it? I don't have access, but it sounds like a preview of their planar book.
Not a preview. Not a playtest. All new, all original content. It is thematically related to this month's Manual of the Planes release, but mostly tangentially.
-What about the other two: Mual-tar and the Dragon stuff...I've seen people claiming those were previews/playtests as well at one point.
Yes, people have claimed that. Those claims were entirely incorrect. The same as the last article: Not a preview. Not a playtest. All new, all original content. It is thematically related to the release of Manual of the Planes and Draconomicon, but mostly tangentially. The articles are entirely usable on their own.
Claiming they are 'advertising' for related products is a viewpoint that would indicate that Dragon magazine should never have any content for: Dragons (due to Draconomicon), Extraplanar creatures (due to Manual of the Planes), Undead (once the undead book comes out), Martial Classes (due to Martial Power), Divine/Arcane classes either (due to those being in the PHB), Magic Items (due to Adventurer's Vault), etc, etc. It is an entirely absurd claim.
Playtest articles make me feel like, well, an insider. You're getting access to a class about a year in advance and have the chance to actually improve the end product that appears a year later. You're not just "paying for the same thing twice" you are being given a chance to shape the second offering for the better. While the cynical might take the view that we're paying WotC for valuable R&D work, the chance to "work with the pros" and get fully playable content a year in advance is worth it to me.
Previews are crap. Utter and complete filler. I should not be paying for crippled, gimped, previews that will be out of date within 3 months, or less. I was salivating for the Druid article when I thought it was a playtest, because I could have finally restarted my 3e Eberron game, when all we were waiting for was the druid. The player could start playing the druid build available for playtest at 9th level (where everyone's decided to convert our 3e characters to) and level him up all the way to 30th if we needed to. Now, the article is useless to us at the table, and all it's good for is a "oh, that looks cool" moment that I used to get looking at free content in the "[Month] And Beyond" preview articles.
When I first saw the Editorial Calendar for December, I saw 3 PLAYTEST articles and I jumped for joy. I thought WotC was doing something really awesome for Christmas. I though we, we special Insiders, were getting 2 fully playable classes for christmas.
Except, we're getting the chance to pay for content that some of us (Me) can't even use and were getting for free less than a year ago.
Learn your lesson, WotC. Playtests = AWESOME! Previews = FREE OR UTTER CRAP
For one, looking through my collection, I realize there were lots of issues that expanded the game (Comprehensive guide to Bows...Polearm article) or presented innovative new options and clever ideas for all aspects of playing the game. I'm just not feeling excited with the DDI version. I really doubt that I'm going to continue my subscription, especially since I can't use any of the DDI tools (Mac User
)Things I miss:
Dragon:
A good editorial that doesn't feel like marketing.
Scale Mail (letters to the editor)
First Watch
Treasures Articles (NOT previews of AV or AV2)
Short Fiction
Volo's Guide
Gamer Guide
Ecology of...
Sage Advice
Class Acts!!! (A guaranteed something-for-everybody in every issue)
Nodwick, Dork Tower, Order of the Stick (Yes, I know about the webcomics)
Dungeon:
Editorial (See above coment)
Prison Mail
Campaign Workbook!
-City
- Dungeon
-Critical Threat
- Wandering Monster
Maps of Mystery!
Looking back through the magazines, I realize that I even loved all the ads from all the different gaming companies...so many cool toys to wish for...
Anyone else remember some of the great content we used to get?
has any of this gotten any better? I'd love to give it a shot but have been apprehensive and this thread only reinforces my doubts.
Its 5$ a month for two pdf magazines, could it be better? sure is it worth it? Yes. Especially if you consider that you get Character builder and the rest for free.
There was an INCREDIBLE article this week that had necromancy powers and content for several classes. I was impressed. If I keep seeing articles like that, I'm going to reconsider my attitude.
the necrostuff was nice, next month monk info and assassin paths for varies classes
but if the rest is free, why do i have to pay first?
Short Answer: Because the $60/year subscription is fo rthe magazines, and the tools they have complete. WotC long term plan is to charge more for the tools. ie enjoy them while they are free.
But despite having made my share of negative posts, overall I remain happy with my $60 investment.
Most of the material to date has been Heroic Tier, which is fine, there has been a good selection of Paragon and a few Epic bits as well. Plenty of material... in fact more material than I could use unless I started running DnD as my full time job. (Which as I didn't win lotto this week isn't about to start happening.)