The content you have been releasing is ridiculous. Enough with the Gamma World articles, they have no place in Dungeons & Dragons. Subscribers have dealt with a lack of good content for months, and I can understand a slump, but the infusion of Gamma World is ridiculous.
Gamma World doesn't even belong in the same genre as D&D. Why not put it in the Magic the Gathering pages? What? let me guess you think it doesn't belong there? Well your right, it belongs in its own section. Trying to force a game down someones throat is annoying and bad for business.
You have to make adjustments on how content is released for D&D online content..... I believe it was stated there was an issue with deadlines... Maybe not write Gamma World articles every other day and have them work on actual paid for content?
I have rarely seen a down hill slide in a paid service like this before.
Thank you for speaking for all people that enjoy Gamma World and find value in those articles.
I am speaking for all the people who pay for D&D content, which Gamma World is not. Thank you for promoting the cluttering of what used to be two good magazines.
Last I checked, it's fairly simple to just skip over articles you don't want to read. And if you accidentally click on a Gamma World article, the Back button (some people even have these mapped to a mouse button) is very effective.
Me? I still find value in the articles. They still provide creative ideas that can parallel into a fantasy campaign.
Strangely enough, Gamma World is a D&D product, as is evident by the D&D logo on the product.
Out of curiosity, in the two current magazines (Dungeon 186 and Dragon 395), exactly which articles are Gamma World? I can't seem to find any. Oh, they are not part of Dungeon or Dragon magazines. They are simply added content for people that do find use out of them. Which of course means it does not detract from the current offerings of Dungeon or Dragon magazine.
Long story short. Nothing is being removed. Things are being added.
EDIT: Should they remove the Ravenloft and Wrath of Ashardalon content, too? You seem to have neglected those items.
P.S. I love your avatar/post combination. It's thoroughly ironic.
The content you have been releasing is ridiculous. Enough with the Gamma World articles, they have no place in Dungeons & Dragons. Subscribers have dealt with a lack of good content for months, and I can understand a slump, but the infusion of Gamma World is ridiculous.
Gamma World doesn't even belong in the same genre as D&D. Why not put it in the Magic the Gathering pages? What? let me guess you think it doesn't belong there? Well your right, it belongs in its own section. Trying to force a game down someones throat is annoying and bad for business.
You have to make adjustments on how content is released for D&D online content..... I believe it was stated there was an issue with deadlines... Maybe not write Gamma World articles every other day and have them work on actual paid for content?
I have rarely seen a down hill slide in a paid service like this before.
Your whole premise is incorrect.
The Gamma World articles are FREE so no one is paying for them and they are not part of the Dragon magazines. If ya dont believe me go back and look at your Dragon Magazine compilations.
We await your apology for your over reaction.
The content you have been releasing is ridiculous. Enough with the Gamma World articles, they have no place in Dungeons & Dragons. Subscribers have dealt with a lack of good content for months, and I can understand a slump, but the infusion of Gamma World is ridiculous.
Sigh.
I keep seeing this same complaint, and it keeps puzzling me.
No one is replacing your content with Gamma World content. You aren't being forced to pay for this in place of normal D&D articles. Take a look at today's article, the one I assume triggered this complaint - it is free. It is a free excerpt. Because WotC provides free previews from all upcoming products.
If this preview was not there, we would not have a D&D article in its place. You would gain nothing. There is no reason for you to complain.
How many actually DDI articles have we had on Gamma World? I think... 3? Two of them Design and Development (talking about the products coming out that month). One of them a D&D Alumni article about the Barrier Peaks, thus connecting Gamma World to D&D.
You really feel those three articles have deprived you of something else you feel you was owed to you?
I enjoy Gamma World, although I agree that it doesn't really belong in Dragon. Not that anything's really in dragon now that it's no longer compiled. Now it's just links under a label.
But, yeah. More weird priorities, but the free GW articles aren't really detracting from Dragon, except as a coherent label.
Your whole premise is incorrect.
The Gamma World articles are FREE so no one is paying for them and they are not part of the Dragon magazines. If ya dont believe me go back and look at your Dragon Magazine compilations.
We await your apology for your over reaction.
Well, they are free articles, but they are part of the magazines, or at least, they appear to be, because they use the same format, and in the lower corner, say Dungeon and Dragon to show what magazine they are part of.
Of course, these people fail to realize that from it's inception all those decades ago, Dragon contained material for other games released by the owners of Dungeons and Dragons.
The content you have been releasing is ridiculous. Enough with the Gamma World articles, they have no place in Dungeons & Dragons. Subscribers have dealt with a lack of good content for months, and I can understand a slump, but the infusion of Gamma World is ridiculous.
Sigh.
I keep seeing this same complaint, and it keeps puzzling me.
No one is replacing your content with Gamma World content. You aren't being forced to pay for this in place of normal D&D articles. Take a look at today's article, the one I assume triggered this complaint - it is free. It is a free excerpt. Because WotC provides free previews from all upcoming products.
If this preview was not there, we would not have a D&D article in its place. You would gain nothing. There is no reason for you to complain.
How many actually DDI articles have we had on Gamma World? I think... 3? Two of them Design and Development (talking about the products coming out that month). One of them a D&D Alumni article about the Barrier Peaks, thus connecting Gamma World to D&D.
You really feel those three articles have deprived you of something else you feel you was owed to you?
OK, first off. I apparently am only speaking for myself and the people I game with. So I stand corrected. Next, many replies are missing the point. I don't care if they make the content, but let's not assume someone is writting them and getting paid. So why aren't they paying them to write articles I can use (even if they are free)? If they have this spare writer why are they missing deadlines?
Outside of that point, what I really was trying to get across is that it has no real value to D&D. I read arguements stating that it gives them creative influence, fine, great, you want to have a D&D world that is post apocalyptic, go for it. But then why not troll the Fallout website or some more appropriate spot. Yes I can avoid the articles (and yes I have looked at some thinking they were for D&D) but why are they there? My personal opinion is to mask the lack of D&D content myself. Like I said link and house them in the Magic the Gathering pages, myself, I feel like this is a bait and switch..... Again.
I realize the fan boys are going to argue this point, but hands down you lose, this content is not relevant to D&D, even free. Its corporate promotion and it just keeps getting worse by the week. BTW love the pop up adds now.
Anyway. Gamma world is pretty much based on the same system as DnD, and is put out under the DnD branch at WoTC (The Gamma world products have a DnD logo on them). Gamma world monsters are interchangable with dnd monsters as well. There is a long standing history of the two games being linked.
Gamma world won't ever get the range of supporting materials that DnD does, such as a character builder (They just get an automated character sheet so far), or it's own forums or what not. But it will get some support for the game. You can't begrudge them that, can you?
Outside of that point, what I really was trying to get across is that it has no real value to D&D.
Then ignore it.
I read arguements stating that it gives them creative influence, fine, great, you want to have a D&D world that is post apocalyptic, go for it. But then why not troll the Fallout website or some more appropriate spot. Yes I can avoid the articles (and yes I have looked at some thinking they were for D&D) but why are they there? My personal opinion is to mask the lack of D&D content myself.
I also find influence from the real world, that doesn't make it a modern RPG. Open your mind a bit. You can apply things from all sorts of media and genres into a D&D campaign while maintaining its fantasy image.
I realize the fan boys are going to argue this point, but hands down you lose, this content is not relevant to D&D, even free. Its corporate promotion and it just keeps getting worse by the week. BTW love the pop up adds now.
... and now you just sound like a hater. I presented you with legitimite reasons for its existence and also that it has absolutely no impact on your D&D life, but you want to result to arguing and some form of insulting. Groovy.
Guess what. It does not harm you in any way, shape, or form. Nor does it decrease any value of the product.
Peace be with you.
Outside of that point, what I really was trying to get across is that it has no real value to D&D.
Then ignore it.I read arguements stating that it gives them creative influence, fine, great, you want to have a D&D world that is post apocalyptic, go for it. But then why not troll the Fallout website or some more appropriate spot. Yes I can avoid the articles (and yes I have looked at some thinking they were for D&D) but why are they there? My personal opinion is to mask the lack of D&D content myself.
I also find influence from the real world, that doesn't make it a modern RPG. Open your mind a bit. You can apply things from all sorts of media and genres into a D&D campaign while maintaining its fantasy image.I realize the fan boys are going to argue this point, but hands down you lose, this content is not relevant to D&D, even free. Its corporate promotion and it just keeps getting worse by the week. BTW love the pop up adds now.
... and now you just sound like a hater. I presented you with legitimite reasons for its existence and also that it has absolutely no impact on your D&D life, but you want to result to arguing and some form of insulting. Groovy.
Guess what. It does not harm you in any way, shape, or form. Nor does it decrease any value of the product.
Peace be with you.
first off, if you took anything in my post or reply as insulting then you are misinterpretting something. I can't tell you how to read my replies, but I have tried to express that this is mine and like 15 other peoples opinion and am not sure what you find insulting. Second, if your "legitimate" reasons hold water, then why are there not articles on how to make apple pie? or the migration of swallow tail sparrows? Answer: it doesn't belong there. I hope my arguement comes off a little better now.
Groooovier. Peace, love, and happiness.
OK, first off. I apparently am only speaking for myself and the people I game with. So I stand corrected. Next, many replies are missing the point. I don't care if they make the content, but let's not assume someone is writting them and getting paid. So why aren't they paying them to write articles I can use (even if they are free)?
These two are at odds with each other. Either you don't care if they make the content OR you EXPECT them to NOT make the content because it isn't something that you personally want. You can't have it both ways.
If they have this spare writer why are they missing deadlines?
The real answer? None of us will ever know.
The WotC answer? I'm not looking for the quote, but basically they have a new article review process in place where stuff goes to R&D before being posted. They are ironing out the kinks in the new process.
Outside of that point, what I really was trying to get across is that it has no real value to D&D. I read arguements stating that it gives them creative influence, fine, great, you want to have a D&D world that is post apocalyptic, go for it. But then why not troll the Fallout website or some more appropriate spot. Yes I can avoid the articles (and yes I have looked at some thinking they were for D&D) but why are they there?
Because GW is a WotC product and (not positive because I don't own GW, but...) I thought that GW used the 4e game engine (or at least a modified version of it). This is not rocket science.
My personal opinion is to mask the lack of D&D content myself. Like I said link and house them in the Magic the Gathering pages, myself, I feel like this is a bait and switch..... Again.
You're entitled to have any crazy theories you want as long as you don't try to represent them as fact (unless of course you actually work for WotC and are posting information for the customers).
I realize the fan boys are going to argue this point, but hands down you lose, this content is not relevant to D&D, even free.
Did you ever notice how you are either:
1) A fanboi, apologist, WotC defender
OR
2) An WotC basher
Because my post doesn't say anything bad about WotC I will automatically be labeled something from group 1. It doesn't matter that I didn't say anything good about WotC either, only that I opposed mis-information provided by someone in group 2.
Its corporate promotion and it just keeps getting worse by the week. BTW love the pop up adds now.
You're entitled to your opinion about how they advertise their products.
Second, if your "legitimate" reasons hold water, then why are there not articles on how to make apple pie? or the migration of swallow tail sparrows? Answer: it doesn't belong there. I hope my arguement comes off a little better now.
Exaggerate for effect. Got it. Okay. There is a flaw in your argument. Gamma World IS a D&D product. It is labelled prominently on the box AND it uses the 4E ruleset. Apple pie and swallow tail sparrows exhibit neither of these traits. Nor are they produced by Wizards of the coast.
Groooovier. Peace, love, and happiness.
With sprinkles on top.
I'm going to agree with the person who pointed out that Dragon magazine has always been a company based magazine, not game based. I'm honestly surprised there is not MTG content in Dragon (and back when they had these lines Star Wars, and all the Miniatures lines). I remember articles back in the TSR days about Gamma Word, Star Frontiers, and Gang Busters. I also remember mini-games included in the magazine that had nothing to do with any published lines of TSR products. Having Gamma Word content is not only nothing new, it is part of what makes Dragon what it is. I do however wish that they would give the game it's own (smallish) sub-site. What I don't ever recall in the history of TSR/WotC on the web is other games (even D&D based) sharing the same web site.
Oh yeah! They had a lot of fun mini games, a lot of them by Thom Wham! I loved his Aweful Green Things from Outerspace, and Snits Revenge. I had the fancy board games. There was an Ivory Hunt game too.
They could certainly bring back mini games like that for fun.
1. GW works off of the mechanics of D&D 4e. Therefore...
...The most economical demographic for WotC to target with this product is the D&D 4e crowd.
2. GW would likely die if it didn't get the exposure provided by DDI. Therefore...
...WotC adds FREE GW content to DDI in order to perpetuate the game.
Remember that they need to keep selling new products constantly in order to sustain any sort of sucessful business model. Gamma World opens up a new genre to gamers without forcing them to learn a new system mechanic, and even allows for some crossover ("You step into the fey circle, and find yourself in Detroit, being chased by a shaggy blob of gasoline."). This seems like a sound strategy to me.
While I usually skip over the GW articles myself, sometimes I look to see if there are any ideas I can pull out (ie. "rip off") for my own campaign. Though it can take a little stretch of the imagination to make the adjustments, it's good to be creative!
We started GW a few weeks back and are really enjoying it.
I don't have a problem with them putting up some GW stuff on the site (although perhaps in it's own sub bit would be nice, a couple of times i've clicked an article title thinking it sounded interesting about D&D only to find it being GW). I feel like this should be an extra, which is how it has been presented, freebe. The timing though could be better though. In months where D&D content I pay for has been slashed and delayed it does feel like these articles (for GW and Wrath of Ashardalon and castle ravenloft) have been put up in their place. It feels like these articles are taking the attention of the writing people away from the paid for product.
I appreciate there are reasons for the changes this month, but if they'd put out less support for these other games, maybe they could've put out another article or two for D&D in a very light couple of months. Making those who are paying feel like they are getting closer to what they are used to.
The other reason I guess this stands out, is another issue, normally the previews, excepts, and bonus support for new products, would be for D&D products, providing a bit of extra "beef" to the D&D content of the site. However this promotional stuff at the moment is appearing for these slightly more fringe products, which not everyone is interested in so much. THe concern here is that there isn't anything D&D for them to support, and the way it appears is there isn't going to be for much of this year.
We started GW a few weeks back and are really enjoying it.
I don't have a problem with them putting up some GW stuff on the site (although perhaps in it's own sub bit would be nice, a couple of times i've clicked an article title thinking it sounded interesting about D&D only to find it being GW). I feel like this should be an extra, which is how it has been presented, freebe. The timing though could be better though. In months where D&D content I pay for has been slashed and delayed it does feel like these articles (for GW and Wrath of Ashardalon and castle ravenloft) have been put up in their place. It feels like these articles are taking the attention of the writing people away from the paid for product.
I appreciate there are reasons for the changes this month, but if they'd put out less support for these other games, maybe they could've put out another article or two for D&D in a very light couple of months. Making those who are paying feel like they are getting closer to what they are used to.
The other reason I guess this stands out, is another issue, normally the previews, excepts, and bonus support for new products, would be for D&D products, providing a bit of extra "beef" to the D&D content of the site. However this promotional stuff at the moment is appearing for these slightly more fringe products, which not everyone is interested in so much. THe concern here is that there isn't anything D&D for them to support, and the way it appears is there isn't going to be for much of this year.
I have seen a lot of people happy with Gamma World, and in past editions I did play and liked it, so I apologize if I am stepping on anyones toes, as I do see the correlation system wise. Your response was well thought out and I agree with most of it. My main point was that as many other threads have stated is there has been a steady decline in "real" D&D articles in the magazine and I have definately seen a lot of free Gamma World articles in what I would consider free (or possibly magazine) D&D articles. It appears to me that it is a smoke screen for a lack of D&D content, but I guess at least it makes some of us happy
, and really I am more for promoting the gaming community. Again nice response.get together, drink beer, role dice.
Maybe if WotC still sold advertisements in the online magazines they could continue to afford to compile them and keep them adequately staffed?? Just a thought. I wouldn't mind them having ads. Then maybe we could get the comics back too?
Well, if it's advertising, who's going to advertise? Hasbro certainly isn't going to let them advertise Pathfinder. Stores probably aren't going to advertise, since it's a national magazine, and stores are local affairs.
Because tradionally, magazines make most of their money via advertising.
Maybe if WotC still sold advertisements in the online magazines they could continue to afford to compile them and keep them adequately staffed?? Just a thought. I wouldn't mind them having ads. Then maybe we could get the comics back too?
Well, if it's advertising, who's going to advertise? Hasbro certainly isn't going to let them advertise Pathfinder. Stores probably aren't going to advertise, since it's a national magazine, and stores are local affairs.
Because tradionally, magazines make most of their money via advertising.
Well this isn't too hard. Cons, online gaming stores (RPGNow, Troll and Toad just to name a few), and if WotC/Hasbro were willing to make it a trade mag instead of a company mouthpiece they could get Paizo, Mongoose, White Wolf and others to advertise. On the downside (for them) they would have to have more than just D&D 4e content. IMHO I think it was a mistake for them to bring the mags in-house in the first place. I understand why they did it, but they could have offered the same content (with probably the same amount of buy in from customers) without the brand names of Dragon and Dungeon. That way those mags could have grown in to industry mouthpieces that just so happened to glorify the grand daddy of RPGs if in no other way than in name.
Maybe if WotC still sold advertisements in the online magazines they could continue to afford to compile them and keep them adequately staffed?? Just a thought. I wouldn't mind them having ads. Then maybe we could get the comics back too?
Well, if it's advertising, who's going to advertise? Hasbro certainly isn't going to let them advertise Pathfinder. Stores probably aren't going to advertise, since it's a national magazine, and stores are local affairs.
Because tradionally, magazines make most of their money via advertising.
Well this isn't too hard. Cons, online gaming stores (RPGNow, Troll and Toad just to name a few), and if WotC/Hasbro were willing to make it a trade mag instead of a company mouthpiece they could get Paizo, Mongoose, White Wolf and others to advertise. On the downside (for them) they would have to have more than just D&D 4e content. IMHO I think it was a mistake for them to bring the mags in-house in the first place. I understand why they did it, but they could have offered the same content (with probably the same amount of buy in from customers) without the brand names of Dragon and Dungeon. That way those mags could have grown in to industry mouthpieces that just so happened to glorify the grand daddy of RPGs if in no other way than in name.
So then the question becomes, are they promoting the competitors over their own products? Which would be against their best interests, as a publicly traded company.
I'm not saying your suggestions are wrong, just that there's a lot of things to consider. Things like this. I'm sure part of their choice to take the magazines back from Piazo was partly because it couldn't be a gaming magazine in general owned by Hasbro.
This corporate mentality seems lost here these days.
Except this is a subjective product so "best" is an ethereal thing mostly defined by marketing. Also, I'm not sure the WotC or Hasbro should be taking business tips from TSR (just sayin)
Just because TSR, Inc. was foundering and was subsequently bought by Wizards of the Coast in 1997, it doesn't mean that every business decision they made from 1973 to 1997 was a bad one. Just sayin'.
Except this is a subjective product so "best" is an ethereal thing mostly defined by marketing. Also, I'm not sure the WotC or Hasbro should be taking business tips from TSR (just sayin)
Just because TSR, Inc. was foundering and was subsequently bought by Wizards of the Coast in 1997, it doesn't mean that every business decision they made from 1973 to 1997 was a bad one. Just sayin'.
If I had to guess...I'd say that a company that is still in business is doing better than one that no longer exists because of their own poor choices.
Except this is a subjective product so "best" is an ethereal thing mostly defined by marketing. Also, I'm not sure the WotC or Hasbro should be taking business tips from TSR (just sayin)
Just because TSR, Inc. was foundering and was subsequently bought by Wizards of the Coast in 1997, it doesn't mean that every business decision they made from 1973 to 1997 was a bad one. Just sayin'.
If I had to guess...I'd say that a company that is still in business is doing better than one that no longer exists because of their own poor choices.
While I usually agree with you, I'd have to say your logic is faulty since business decision alone are not even remotely responsible for the success or failure of a company.
If I recall, the biggest charge leveled at TSR (under Lorraine Williams) regarding what led to their demise was failure to listen to the wants and needs of it's customers. Hauntingly familiar, wouldn't you say?
Except this is a subjective product so "best" is an ethereal thing mostly defined by marketing. Also, I'm not sure the WotC or Hasbro should be taking business tips from TSR (just sayin)
Just because TSR, Inc. was foundering and was subsequently bought by Wizards of the Coast in 1997, it doesn't mean that every business decision they made from 1973 to 1997 was a bad one. Just sayin'.
If I had to guess...I'd say that a company that is still in business is doing better than one that no longer exists because of their own poor choices.
While I usually agree with you, I'd have to say your logic is faulty since business decision alone are not even remotely responsible for the success or failure of a company.
If I recall, the biggest charge leveled at TSR (under Lorraine Williams) regarding what led to their demise was failure to listen to the wants and needs of it's customers. Hauntingly familiar, wouldn't you say?
Only we really don't know how much feedback WoTC gets outside of this forum. Lets be honest, it's a very small selection, very small, of its customers, and often we can't even agree what we want amongst ourselves.
Only we really don't know how much feedback WoTC gets outside of this forum. Lets be honest, it's a very small selection, very small, of its customers, and often we can't even agree what we want amongst ourselves.
I dunno Dane. The one thing both sides of most arguments seem to be able to agree on is that WotC could be doing a much better job of listening to, and communicating with their customers. It's almost a universal truth, even here on these message boards.
Only we really don't know how much feedback WoTC gets outside of this forum. Lets be honest, it's a very small selection, very small, of its customers, and often we can't even agree what we want amongst ourselves.
I dunno Dane. The one thing both sides of most arguments seem to be able to agree on is that WotC could be doing a much better job of listening to, and communicating with their customers. It's almost a universal truth, even here on these message boards.
Well, yeah. But as little of their customer base on the forums, I'm always shocked on how many of that small segment fails to understand when they do communicate, or how people treat the few WOTC staff that will come here.
Paolo hasn't been seen in like forever, and if I remember, they said that he won't be talking to us after the crap storm over how he presented his view of what WoTC was doing.
How many times does Trevor have to say the insults are not needed? They are adults, but they also aren't paid to take abuse like that.
Only we really don't know how much feedback WoTC gets outside of this forum. Lets be honest, it's a very small selection, very small, of its customers, and often we can't even agree what we want amongst ourselves.
I dunno Dane. The one thing both sides of most arguments seem to be able to agree on is that WotC could be doing a much better job of listening to, and communicating with their customers. It's almost a universal truth, even here on these message boards.
But listening and communicating don't make any decisions like...do we stay with CB or move to web CB. And please don't read a lot into that it was just an example. Pick something else if you think it works better. The point being that once they decide to listen, what do they gain by listening other than learning their customers are split about what they want?
Except this is a subjective product so "best" is an ethereal thing mostly defined by marketing. Also, I'm not sure the WotC or Hasbro should be taking business tips from TSR (just sayin)
Just because TSR, Inc. was foundering and was subsequently bought by Wizards of the Coast in 1997, it doesn't mean that every business decision they made from 1973 to 1997 was a bad one. Just sayin'.
TSR is a lot of things but it was never good at business decisions. They had bottled lightning and they botched it so badly over a twenty year period that the fact that it even lasted that long is a testiment to how good this game and IP really are. I mean, whose decisions do you want me to dig into first? Lorraine Williams? The Blumes? Gygax? There may have been some strong products released at the time but I don't think anybody can argue, in good faith, that any of these people could properly run a business.
Only we really don't know how much feedback WoTC gets outside of this forum. Lets be honest, it's a very small selection, very small, of its customers, and often we can't even agree what we want amongst ourselves.
I dunno Dane. The one thing both sides of most arguments seem to be able to agree on is that WotC could be doing a much better job of listening to, and communicating with their customers. It's almost a universal truth, even here on these message boards.
Well, yeah. But as little of their customer base on the forums, I'm always shocked on how many of that small segment fails to understand when they do communicate, or how people treat the few WOTC staff that will come here.
Paolo hasn't been seen in like forever, and if I remember, they said that he won't be talking to us after the crap storm over how he presented his view of what WoTC was doing.
How many times does Trevor have to say the insults are not needed? They are adults, but they also aren't paid to take abuse like that.
I'm going to preface this by saying that I love your posts, Dane. They are always positive, upbeat, and show a great imagination and love of the game.
I agree with you that the way some forum members treat company representatives on official forums all over the internet is occasionally shocking (and I would never be that disrespectful, personally). Yes, people can be jerks on the internet. But I would think that a paid professional could look past that and ignore the posts by haters and trolls (as in, don't even bother to respond to them) if the alternative was to not post at all and alienate the rest of your customer base.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't get to me at times, but in general, if an 11-year old is raging at me because I discontinued their minis, or a 30-year old is frothing at the virtual mouth because there's a bug in the character builder...why would I take this kind of ridiculous behavior personally when its obvious that they are acting inappropriately? Their behavior is unworthy of responding to.
And okay, I *do* think that there comes a point in a thread where its appropriate to bow out, or moderate heavily, or even ban users, but to avoid forums altogether because you're afraid someone might be mean to you? Uh.... Have you met the internet?
I just wish that company reps would take heed of your signature, Dane:
"Its only a forum. Its only a game."
I'm going to preface this by saying that I love your posts, Dane. They are always positive, upbeat, and show a great imagination and love of the game.
I agree with you that the way some forum members treat company representatives on official forums all over the internet is occasionally shocking (and I would never be that disrespectful, personally). Yes, people can be jerks on the internet. But I would think that a paid professional could look past that and ignore the posts by haters and trolls (as in, don't even bother to respond to them) if the alternative was to not post at all and alienate the rest of your customer base.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't get to me at times, but in general, if an 11-year old is raging at me because I discontinued their minis, or a 30-year old is frothing at the virtual mouth because there's a bug in the character builder...why would I take this kind of ridiculous behavior personally when its obvious that they are acting inappropriately? Their behavior is unworthy of responding to.
And okay, I *do* think that there comes a point in a thread where its appropriate to bow out, or moderate heavily, or even ban users, but to avoid forums altogether because you're afraid someone might be mean to you? Uh.... Have you met the internet?
I just wish that company reps would take heed of your signature, Dane:
"Its only a forum. Its only a game."
I applaud this post and agree with it almost entirely.
I do think WotC should be more heavy handed in policing these message boards. As Dane, and others like DrNick often point out, the members here are a small subset of the whole customer base. I think banning members who can't remain civil is a small price to pay in customer good will in exchange for a forum where real ideas can be shared, and company employees can interact with customers (and fans) without fear of being embroiled in legally sticky situations. If you've were ever over at the DOJ (Hero) forums a few years back (I don't frequent them anymore as I don't play Hero games anymore), but they banned people all over the place, but in the end they had civil and constructive forums.
I'm going to preface this by saying that I love your posts, Dane. They are always positive, upbeat, and show a great imagination and love of the game.
I agree with you that the way some forum members treat company representatives on official forums all over the internet is occasionally shocking (and I would never be that disrespectful, personally). Yes, people can be jerks on the internet. But I would think that a paid professional could look past that and ignore the posts by haters and trolls (as in, don't even bother to respond to them) if the alternative was to not post at all and alienate the rest of your customer base.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't get to me at times, but in general, if an 11-year old is raging at me because I discontinued their minis, or a 30-year old is frothing at the virtual mouth because there's a bug in the character builder...why would I take this kind of ridiculous behavior personally when its obvious that they are acting inappropriately? Their behavior is unworthy of responding to.
And okay, I *do* think that there comes a point in a thread where its appropriate to bow out, or moderate heavily, or even ban users, but to avoid forums altogether because you're afraid someone might be mean to you? Uh.... Have you met the internet?
I just wish that company reps would take heed of your signature, Dane:
"Its only a forum. Its only a game."
I applaud this post and agree with it almost entirely.
I do think WotC should be more heavy handed in policing these message boards. As Dane, and others like DrNick often point out, the members here are a small subset of the whole customer base. I think banning members who can't remain civil is a small price to pay in customer good will in exchange for a forum where real ideas can be shared, and company employees can interact with customers (and fans) without fear of being embroiled in legally sticky situations. If you've were ever over at the DOJ (Hero) forums a few years back (I don't frequent them anymore as I don't play Hero games anymore), but they banned people all over the place, but in the end they had civil and constructive forums.
I'm all for them policing the forums more. But for some reason they won't. The only time I've seen someone banned was they kept advocating people violate WoTC copyright.
At the worst, they need to just say something directly to those people, on the forums. Take their posts, and say, This is part, right here, isn't needed anymore.
But it's not going to happen.
It did happen with the general hubub over the facebook dealy. Trevor may not have quoted the post directly but he did make it clear what he was talking about.
But that's my point. There isn't any need for it to get like that. And it was great that Trevor said something, but it seldom goes far enough.
I don't have a problem with people that disagree with me about the game. I like discussing the game. What I can't fathom is how people who state they don't even play the game, are allowed to, well basically harass people. I mean, we are the paying customers, we shouldn't have to put up with that.
OK, first off. I apparently am only speaking for myself and the people I game with. So I stand corrected. Next, many replies are missing the point. I don't care if they make the content, but let's not assume someone is writting them and getting paid. So why aren't they paying them to write articles I can use (even if they are free)? If they have this spare writer why are they missing deadlines?
I think you missed the main point of what I said earlier. The vast majority of the Gamma World content posted online? The articles that I'm pretty much positive you are complaining about?
Are excerpts from the Gamma World print products.
They aren't being created by a spare writer who could crank out other articles instead. They are already written content being taken from an existing product and previewed online.
Now, has there been some actual content for Gamma World on the website? Yes, but hardly that much. One article on making a Gamma World hometown. One short holiday themed adventure. 2-3 Design and Development or D&D Alumni articles, which wouldn't be replaced by the content you want anyway. And the quick Gamma World char-gen tool.
Their presence was a great boon to fans of Gamma World, but removing them and replacing them with something else wouldn't have revolutioned D&D. They were almost entirely free content. If your complaint is really that they wrote a different D&D Alumni article than you wanted to read... well, I'm sure many people have felt the same way about several other D&D Alumni articles before.
I highly encourage you to take a closer look and link to the articles that actually bother you. Because I am 90% sure that you are complaining about the free excerpts that get posted leading up to most releases, and removing them would not, I'm afraid, have freed up some 'secret writer' to crank out articles on your behalf.
Outside of that point, what I really was trying to get across is that it has no real value to D&D. I read arguements stating that it gives them creative influence, fine, great, you want to have a D&D world that is post apocalyptic, go for it. But then why not troll the Fallout website or some more appropriate spot. Yes I can avoid the articles (and yes I have looked at some thinking they were for D&D) but why are they there? My personal opinion is to mask the lack of D&D content myself. Like I said link and house them in the Magic the Gathering pages, myself, I feel like this is a bait and switch..... Again.
I realize the fan boys are going to argue this point, but hands down you lose, this content is not relevant to D&D, even free. Its corporate promotion and it just keeps getting worse by the week. BTW love the pop up adds now.
No one is replacing your content with Gamma World content. You aren't being forced to pay for this in place of normal D&D articles.
Hm, Gamma World articles take time, quantiy of D&D articles is decreasing. So yes, they taking away time from writing D&D articles for the subscribers to write Gamma World articles for free
The WotC answer? I'm not looking for the quote, but basically they have a new article review process in place where stuff goes to R&D before being posted. They are ironing out the kinks in the new process.
Which in the pre-4e-marketing phase they did promise us to do from day one and labeld it as one of the advantages of taking the mags away from Paizo and turning them online. Great "new" process indeed
Hm, Gamma World articles take time, quantiy of D&D articles is decreasing. So yes, they taking away time from writing D&D articles for the subscribers to write Gamma World articles for free
I'm going to repeat this one more time: The articles he are complaining about are excerpts from the printed Gamma World products. Furthermore, we've been seeing these previews in several months where DDI had the usual amount of content. There is no connection between Gamma World articles and the drop in content in January.
Look, here is the Gamma World content that has been posted on the D&D site.
September: Excerpt - What is Gamma World?
September: Excerpt - Character Creation
September: Excerpt - Origins
September: Excerpt - Gear
September: Excerpt - Gamma Terra
October: Excerpt - Porker
October: Excerpt - Robot
October: Excerpt - Adventure
October: Art Gallery
October: Map Gallery
December: Excerpt - Character Options
December: Excerpt - Cryptic Alliances
December: Excerpt - Monsters
December: Art Gallery
December: Map Gallery
December: Wallpapers
January: Excerpt - Moon Zone 9
January: Excerpt - Attack on Burl
January: Excerpt - Damaged Laboratory
January: Excerpt - Cyborgs
October: D&D Alumni - Gamma World
December: D&D Alumni - Barrier Peaks
December: Hometown, Gamma Terra
December: Interactive Character Sheet
December: Factory of Misfit Omega Tech
In addition to the above, of course, we saw occasional mention or previews of Gamma World in What's in the Works, Ampersand, and Podcasts. Note - every single article above is completely free. None of them are subscriber only content taking the place of something else that would have been part of your DDI subscription.
Now, you'll note I split off a few of the items. Those last five items are the only ones that actually involved any production efforts from the DDI staff. And note that most of them were done in December, the month that had over 160 pages of DDI content - not in January, the month where we had reduced content.
The original poster made his complaint on January 21st, which is when an excerpt was posted. At that point, we were no longer seeing any new Gamma World content on DDI, just excerpts for the upcoming product. Those 20 excerpts, from September through January, did not take the effort it would have required to write a single DDI article - they were entirely formed of existing content copied from the print products.
The fact that people complain about stuff like this, in complete defiance of the actual facts, is why I can't blame WotC for mismanaging DDI. When so much of the feedback they receive is blind and senseless noise, how can they actual find the right direction that their customer base wants them to go in?
The fact that people complain about stuff like this, in complete defiance of the actual facts, is why I can't blame WotC for mismanaging DDI. When so much of the feedback they receive is blind and senseless noise, how can they actual find the right direction that their customer base wants them to go in?
+1
I'm going to repeat this one more time: The articles he are complaining about are excerpts from the printed Gamma World products.[...]
None of them are subscriber only content taking the place of something else that would have been part of your DDI subscription.
[...]
Those last five items are the only ones that actually involved any production efforts from the DDI staff.
They obviously have the capacity for someone putting this stuff into a website-friendly format and putting it online, but can no longer spare the 20 mins to compile the two mags.
I'm going to repeat this one more time: The articles he are complaining about are excerpts from the printed Gamma World products.[...]
None of them are subscriber only content taking the place of something else that would have been part of your DDI subscription.
[...]
Those last five items are the only ones that actually involved any production efforts from the DDI staff.
They obviously have the capacity for someone putting this stuff into a website-friendly format and putting it online, but can no longer spare the 20 mins to compile the two mags.
The people who do that for the excerpts are probably not DDi staff members.
They obviously have the capacity for someone putting this stuff into a website-friendly format and putting it online, but can no longer spare the 20 mins to compile the two mags.
That's a more valid comparison. Of course, the reasons for stopping the compilations are likely not due to the time saved but based on other reasons, and they have already given indications that they may return to the previous policy given the feedback thus far.
Either way, its connection to the previews and excerpts - something that they have been providing for years - is nonexistent.
Look, up above you complained that the time spent on Gamma World content was negatively impacting the magazine. I showed pretty thoroughly that it wasn't. Changing the topic to another issue entirely is not going to get people to take you more seriously - it demonstrates that you don't actually care about a specific issue, but just about proving a point.
Again, if you want to complain about decreased content in the magazines? About the removal of compilations? Then complain about those issues. Focusing on a non-issue like Gamma World content is just going to dilute your point at best, and at worth, get you disregarded entirely.