Dungeons and Dragons Insider(Outsider) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dungeons and Dragons Insider(Outsider)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
redleg_actual
Sep 17, 2008 18:12:04 Hi, first let me say I think that 4e is the best Dungeons and Dragons ruleset yet, and I've been playing since 1978. It just keeps getting better. I'm wondering about insider. Just getting Dungeon and Dragon for that price would be great, but we get character builder, visualizer, dungeon builder, and the ever increasingly put off "table". Frankly I live in a situation where it's hard to get a group together in one place at one time, I (we) need the game table. Why on earth did wizards not have these features ready to go upon launch of the ruleset? It feels inefficient, inept and poorly thoughtout. Really guys, months of hype and then its as aggrivating as a new micro-soft launch? I guess I expect too much from pros.
#2
kyros_tachyus
Sep 17, 2008 19:35:38 Who knows why they didn't have it ready on time. They waited until the month before to tell us it would be delayed and even then they didn't tell the FLGS' out there that were advertising D&D and DDi together. If they would have told us say... 6 months in advance or even 3 months, this fallout wouldn't have been as bad.

It also didn't help that they appeared to have covered the whole thing up as well.

*prepares to get flamed*

:fight!:
#3
kouk
Sep 19, 2008 3:26:38 They make the common corporate mistake of believing they can meet a software deadline by when they expect it will be ready, assuming a constant rate of progress with no snafus.

Basically they are newbs to programming, and/or they believed their designers when they promised it would be done on time, months in advance.
#4
VerysArkon
Sep 19, 2008 9:22:13 I think most software gets delayed, so its no surprise DDi is delayed. I'd rather have polished software than rushed software. So many games get rushed to meet a deadline and suffer for it. I'd rather not have a delay, but really, its the norm.
#5
redleg_actual
Sep 20, 2008 13:57:36 Yeah, I didn't mean they should have rushed anything, rather I feel like they should have delayed the entire 4e launch until everything they'd promised was ready. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm generally willing to wait for a good thing. :D
#6
whitebaron
Sep 20, 2008 16:03:48
Yeah, I didn't mean they should have rushed anything, rather I feel like they should have delayed the entire 4e launch until everything they'd promised was ready. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm generally willing to wait for a good thing. :D

this is something i don't get at all. d&d insider is not at all dependent on 4e, and vice-versa. they just figured, ok, if we want to go for a big digital offering, we'll need a new edition to be able to do that. but in no way, does 4e need anything from insider - in fact, it plays just fine without all that stuff in dungeon and dragon.
#7
Kentinal
Sep 20, 2008 17:39:49
this is something i don't get at all. d&d insider is not at all dependent on 4e, and vice-versa. they just figured, ok, if we want to go for a big digital offering, we'll need a new edition to be able to do that. but in no way, does 4e need anything from insider - in fact, it plays just fine without all that stuff in dungeon and dragon.

Well not quite if things went to plan, at least in my view.

The Game Table and Character Builder released at same time as the books clearly would enhance the value of both. A user could build a character by using the tool as opposed to using paper. The help tools and online book (part of the original plan) would have made it easier for the DM to learn the rules even while at work. All in all Insider was not required, but clearly would have been a useful tool.
They were always separate products, just products that supported each other.

A new release more likely was dictated by generation of revenue needs and adding online likely was considered an enhancement offer to help sell a revision shortly (in RPG terms) after the last release (3.5). Plans clearly did not work and sales are down because of that, I expect.

There are other speculations I could offer however I am not going there now.
#8
whitebaron
Sep 20, 2008 18:43:51 frpg and av both made it to the top 100 at amazon, which are quite some books sold for one week. (so no, sales are not exactly "down")

character builder and game-table are value-added services - in no way do they hinder you from playing right now. so there's really no need to do anything about that, but their marketing/PR department was really lacking. what i believe was the greatest screwup of 4e was the entire "we go digital" campaign they started. old-school players got annoyed and said, ok, if its like a computer game, we won't play it and still won't give it a second look, and others are upset because nothing's really ready. they should have silently worked on the tools, and given them out whenever they are complete... presenting the tools first when 4e hits the shelves might have been a much better tactic.

and about the new edition: 3.x just did not work properly outside levels 4-8. i was waiting for something newer quite some time by...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 redleg_actual Sep 17, 2008 18:12:04	Hi, first let me say I think that 4e is the best Dungeons and Dragons ruleset yet, and I've been playing since 1978. It just keeps getting better. I'm wondering about insider. Just getting Dungeon and Dragon for that price would be great, but we get character builder, visualizer, dungeon builder, and the ever increasingly put off "table". Frankly I live in a situation where it's hard to get a group together in one place at one time, I (we) need the game table. Why on earth did wizards not have these features ready to go upon launch of the ruleset? It feels inefficient, inept and poorly thoughtout. Really guys, months of hype and then its as aggrivating as a new micro-soft launch? I guess I expect too much from pros.
#2 kyros_tachyus Sep 17, 2008 19:35:38	Who knows why they didn't have it ready on time. They waited until the month before to tell us it would be delayed and even then they didn't tell the FLGS' out there that were advertising D&D and DDi together. If they would have told us say... 6 months in advance or even 3 months, this fallout wouldn't have been as bad. It also didn't help that they appeared to have covered the whole thing up as well. prepares to get flamed :fight!:
#3 kouk Sep 19, 2008 3:26:38	They make the common corporate mistake of believing they can meet a software deadline by when they expect it will be ready, assuming a constant rate of progress with no snafus. Basically they are newbs to programming, and/or they believed their designers when they promised it would be done on time, months in advance.
#4 VerysArkon Sep 19, 2008 9:22:13	I think most software gets delayed, so its no surprise DDi is delayed. I'd rather have polished software than rushed software. So many games get rushed to meet a deadline and suffer for it. I'd rather not have a delay, but really, its the norm.
#5 redleg_actual Sep 20, 2008 13:57:36	Yeah, I didn't mean they should have rushed anything, rather I feel like they should have delayed the entire 4e launch until everything they'd promised was ready. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm generally willing to wait for a good thing. :D
#6 whitebaron Sep 20, 2008 16:03:48	Yeah, I didn't mean they should have rushed anything, rather I feel like they should have delayed the entire 4e launch until everything they'd promised was ready. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm generally willing to wait for a good thing. :D this is something i don't get at all. d&d insider is not at all dependent on 4e, and vice-versa. they just figured, ok, if we want to go for a big digital offering, we'll need a new edition to be able to do that. but in no way, does 4e need anything from insider - in fact, it plays just fine without all that stuff in dungeon and dragon.
#7 Kentinal Sep 20, 2008 17:39:49	this is something i don't get at all. d&d insider is not at all dependent on 4e, and vice-versa. they just figured, ok, if we want to go for a big digital offering, we'll need a new edition to be able to do that. but in no way, does 4e need anything from insider - in fact, it plays just fine without all that stuff in dungeon and dragon. Well not quite if things went to plan, at least in my view. The Game Table and Character Builder released at same time as the books clearly would enhance the value of both. A user could build a character by using the tool as opposed to using paper. The help tools and online book (part of the original plan) would have made it easier for the DM to learn the rules even while at work. All in all Insider was not required, but clearly would have been a useful tool. They were always separate products, just products that supported each other. A new release more likely was dictated by generation of revenue needs and adding online likely was considered an enhancement offer to help sell a revision shortly (in RPG terms) after the last release (3.5). Plans clearly did not work and sales are down because of that, I expect. There are other speculations I could offer however I am not going there now.
#8 whitebaron Sep 20, 2008 18:43:51	frpg and av both made it to the top 100 at amazon, which are quite some books sold for one week. (so no, sales are not exactly "down") character builder and game-table are value-added services - in no way do they hinder you from playing right now. so there's really no need to do anything about that, but their marketing/PR department was really lacking. what i believe was the greatest screwup of 4e was the entire "we go digital" campaign they started. old-school players got annoyed and said, ok, if its like a computer game, we won't play it and still won't give it a second look, and others are upset because nothing's really ready. they should have silently worked on the tools, and given them out whenever they are complete... presenting the tools first when 4e hits the shelves might have been a much better tactic. and about the new edition: 3.x just did not work properly outside levels 4-8. i was waiting for something newer quite some time by...