Eladrin Hybrid Swordmage/Fighter Multi Ranger Para Blade of Cendriane - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Eladrin Hybrid Swordmage/Fighter Multi Ranger Para Blade of Cendriane

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
whacko_uzbek
Jun 15, 2009 9:52:00 As a Hybrid Fighter with the Tempest Talent, and the Two-Blade Warrior multiclass feat, my DMs (myself and a friend, we alternate) agree that due to the character concept and feat wording, I could dual wield Longswords and still get the full Tempest bonus in chainmail.

Firstly, would anyone else agree with this ruling? (It's not really broken, its just stacking various rules together for flavour, not damage.)

Secondly, is it possible for this to show in the Char Builder? Can I somehow grant my Longswords the "Off-Hand" property, or give Shortswords a d8 damage dice (This is less preferable due to the blade of cendriane 16th level property.)
#2
Mock
Jun 15, 2009 11:07:15 I agree that you can use Tempest Technique and Two-Blade Warrior. That is, you can wield two non-off-hand property weapons and still gain the +1 benefit of Tempest Technique, but I'd balk at allowing the +2 damage bonus, without houseruling the weapons in use (it's never made explicitly clear - and in fact is somewhat contradictory in places - but I think wielding a weapon 'as though' it were an off-hand weapon doesn't necessarily grant the off-hand property).

However, one way to represent this in the character builder would be to give the player a double sword (and a free proficiency feat, I guess), which I believe in the CB gets treated as two off-hand longswords.
#3
borg285
Jun 15, 2009 12:39:09 I agree that your house-ruling would equate to a free feat of Double-sword prof(+3 prof, d8/d8, off-hand), however OP the double-sword is. It is a bit overpowered (d8 + 2(eladrin sold.) + 2(tempest tech.)) is very nice.
#4
whacko_uzbek
Jun 15, 2009 14:36:33
I agree that your house-ruling would equate to a free feat of Double-sword prof(+3 prof, d8/d8, off-hand), however OP the double-sword is. It is a bit overpowered (d8 + 2(eladrin sold.) + 2(tempest tech.)) is very nice.

I didn't think of it that way, I guess I could just sac a feat for it *shrug*, its a flavour thing.

But the point still stands, how do I get the CB to show it? I wield a +3 silvered frost and +3 silvered fire longswords, and we've houseruled that my char gets the full tempest technique
#5
Mock
Jun 15, 2009 14:45:25
But the point still stands, how do I get the CB to show it? I wield a +3 silvered frost and +3 silvered fire longswords, and we've houseruled that my char gets the full tempest technique

You can't; since the rules don't work that way* and the CB only barely supports house-ruling, you're out of luck unless

a) you take the double sword to get the math right, and then scribble in a note that it's actually two longswords, or
b) you take two longswords, and scribble in a +1 damage for each to make up the missing bonus from Tempest Technique

Option (b) is probably easiest and least invasive.

* To clarify, I mean "the rules as far as the Character Builder is concerned don't work that way."
#6
whacko_uzbek
Jun 15, 2009 15:51:27
You can't; since the rules don't work that way* and the CB only barely supports house-ruling, you're out of luck unless

a) you take the double sword to get the math right, and then scribble in a note that it's actually two longswords, or
b) you take two longswords, and scribble in a +1 damage for each to make up the missing bonus from Tempest Technique

Option (b) is probably easiest and least invasive.

* To clarify, I mean "the rules as far as the Character Builder is concerned don't work that way."

How do I scribble in the +damage? And that's perfect :D
#7
Mock
Jun 15, 2009 17:32:51
How do I scribble in the +damage? And that's perfect :D

I was suggesting literally writing it on the sheet with a pencil; I don't think you can add in extra damage on your power calculations (you might be able to edit the Misc field on the basic attacks, but I don't think you can manually update the power cards).
#8
whacko_uzbek
Jun 16, 2009 4:11:17
I was suggesting literally writing it on the sheet with a pencil; I don't think you can add in extra damage on your power calculations (you might be able to edit the Misc field on the basic attacks, but I don't think you can manually update the power cards).

Bah Humbug, fair enough, for now I'll stick to creating a (buggy as hell) hybrid character in the Char Build, and transfer by hand to a char sheet.
#9
Mock
Jun 16, 2009 6:51:47
Bah Humbug, fair enough, for now I'll stick to creating a (buggy as hell) hybrid character in the Char Build, and transfer by hand to a char sheet.

Ooh, you're trying to do a hybrid...eesh. I wish you luck. I tried to make a couple and decided I'm not going to try to make any of them until next month's update; they're megabugged in the CB right now (it's not a crisis at the moment - I don't need any new characters).

At this point, given that the CB has obsolete hybrid rules and a bunch of bugs surrounding hybrids, they're probably easier to do by hand.
#10
seanherring_dup
Jun 22, 2009 9:23:08
As a Hybrid Fighter with the Tempest Talent, and the Two-Blade Warrior multiclass feat, my DMs (myself and a friend, we alternate) agree that due to the character concept and feat wording, I could dual wield Longswords and still get the full Tempest bonus in chainmail.

Firstly, would anyone else agree with this ruling? (It's not really broken, its just stacking various rules together for flavour, not damage.)

Well actually wielding it as if it were an off hand does not give it the offhand property. In order to gain the tempest benifit it must actually have that property. The ranger two-weapon style merely lets you bend the normal rule of one-hand + one-hand(offhand poperty) to allow for a one-hand + one-hand(as if it were offhand, but itsn't).

But for arguements sake you are willing to hand-wave the above (with the following clarification it only amounts to one attack being +2 damage anyway) then you also have forgotten that in the same area of the ranger it specifies "make sure to designate ...which weapons is main and which is off-hand" so yeah...sure you get one of your longswords (again hand-waiving here) to count as an off-hand weapon..but only one. Now the upside is that if you read the off-hand property in the phb 217 it allows that when you get to attack with only one weapon (op attack) you get to use either weapon so for all of your non-two-weapon attacks you get that extra damage. Again though, this whole paragraph assumes you are assuming something works against the normal 4th property heavy designation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 whacko_uzbek Jun 15, 2009 9:52:00	As a Hybrid Fighter with the Tempest Talent, and the Two-Blade Warrior multiclass feat, my DMs (myself and a friend, we alternate) agree that due to the character concept and feat wording, I could dual wield Longswords and still get the full Tempest bonus in chainmail. Firstly, would anyone else agree with this ruling? (It's not really broken, its just stacking various rules together for flavour, not damage.) Secondly, is it possible for this to show in the Char Builder? Can I somehow grant my Longswords the "Off-Hand" property, or give Shortswords a d8 damage dice (This is less preferable due to the blade of cendriane 16th level property.)
#2 Mock Jun 15, 2009 11:07:15	I agree that you can use Tempest Technique and Two-Blade Warrior. That is, you can wield two non-off-hand property weapons and still gain the +1 benefit of Tempest Technique, but I'd balk at allowing the +2 damage bonus, without houseruling the weapons in use (it's never made explicitly clear - and in fact is somewhat contradictory in places - but I think wielding a weapon 'as though' it were an off-hand weapon doesn't necessarily grant the off-hand property). However, one way to represent this in the character builder would be to give the player a double sword (and a free proficiency feat, I guess), which I believe in the CB gets treated as two off-hand longswords.
#3 borg285 Jun 15, 2009 12:39:09	I agree that your house-ruling would equate to a free feat of Double-sword prof(+3 prof, d8/d8, off-hand), however OP the double-sword is. It is a bit overpowered (d8 + 2(eladrin sold.) + 2(tempest tech.)) is very nice.
#4 whacko_uzbek Jun 15, 2009 14:36:33	I agree that your house-ruling would equate to a free feat of Double-sword prof(+3 prof, d8/d8, off-hand), however OP the double-sword is. It is a bit overpowered (d8 + 2(eladrin sold.) + 2(tempest tech.)) is very nice. I didn't think of it that way, I guess I could just sac a feat for it shrug, its a flavour thing. But the point still stands, how do I get the CB to show it? I wield a +3 silvered frost and +3 silvered fire longswords, and we've houseruled that my char gets the full tempest technique
#5 Mock Jun 15, 2009 14:45:25	But the point still stands, how do I get the CB to show it? I wield a +3 silvered frost and +3 silvered fire longswords, and we've houseruled that my char gets the full tempest technique You can't; since the rules don't work that way* and the CB only barely supports house-ruling, you're out of luck unless a) you take the double sword to get the math right, and then scribble in a note that it's actually two longswords, or b) you take two longswords, and scribble in a +1 damage for each to make up the missing bonus from Tempest Technique Option (b) is probably easiest and least invasive. * To clarify, I mean "the rules as far as the Character Builder is concerned don't work that way."
#6 whacko_uzbek Jun 15, 2009 15:51:27	You can't; since the rules don't work that way* and the CB only barely supports house-ruling, you're out of luck unless a) you take the double sword to get the math right, and then scribble in a note that it's actually two longswords, or b) you take two longswords, and scribble in a +1 damage for each to make up the missing bonus from Tempest Technique Option (b) is probably easiest and least invasive. * To clarify, I mean "the rules as far as the Character Builder is concerned don't work that way." How do I scribble in the +damage? And that's perfect :D
#7 Mock Jun 15, 2009 17:32:51	How do I scribble in the +damage? And that's perfect :D I was suggesting literally writing it on the sheet with a pencil; I don't think you can add in extra damage on your power calculations (you might be able to edit the Misc field on the basic attacks, but I don't think you can manually update the power cards).
#8 whacko_uzbek Jun 16, 2009 4:11:17	I was suggesting literally writing it on the sheet with a pencil; I don't think you can add in extra damage on your power calculations (you might be able to edit the Misc field on the basic attacks, but I don't think you can manually update the power cards). Bah Humbug, fair enough, for now I'll stick to creating a (buggy as hell) hybrid character in the Char Build, and transfer by hand to a char sheet.
#9 Mock Jun 16, 2009 6:51:47	Bah Humbug, fair enough, for now I'll stick to creating a (buggy as hell) hybrid character in the Char Build, and transfer by hand to a char sheet. Ooh, you're trying to do a hybrid...eesh. I wish you luck. I tried to make a couple and decided I'm not going to try to make any of them until next month's update; they're megabugged in the CB right now (it's not a crisis at the moment - I don't need any new characters). At this point, given that the CB has obsolete hybrid rules and a bunch of bugs surrounding hybrids, they're probably easier to do by hand.
#10 seanherring_dup Jun 22, 2009 9:23:08	As a Hybrid Fighter with the Tempest Talent, and the Two-Blade Warrior multiclass feat, my DMs (myself and a friend, we alternate) agree that due to the character concept and feat wording, I could dual wield Longswords and still get the full Tempest bonus in chainmail. Firstly, would anyone else agree with this ruling? (It's not really broken, its just stacking various rules together for flavour, not damage.) Well actually wielding it as if it were an off hand does not give it the offhand property. In order to gain the tempest benifit it must actually have that property. The ranger two-weapon style merely lets you bend the normal rule of one-hand + one-hand(offhand poperty) to allow for a one-hand + one-hand(as if it were offhand, but itsn't). But for arguements sake you are willing to hand-wave the above (with the following clarification it only amounts to one attack being +2 damage anyway) then you also have forgotten that in the same area of the ranger it specifies "make sure to designate ...which weapons is main and which is off-hand" so yeah...sure you get one of your longswords (again hand-waiving here) to count as an off-hand weapon..but only one. Now the upside is that if you read the off-hand property in the phb 217 it allows that when you get to attack with only one weapon (op attack) you get to use either weapon so for all of your non-two-weapon attacks you get that extra damage. Again though, this whole paragraph assumes you are assuming something works against the normal 4th property heavy designation.