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Epic tier adventures

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
paulstrait
Jul 16, 2011 19:33:52 I need some help with my campaign that is now in the epic tier (I'm finding that the epic tier in 4e doesn't play as smoothly as I hoped and encounter design is tricky, but I can't give up on my campaign b/c it has been running continuously for 3 years and there are so many plot lines that are culminating at this point).

I was hoping to look through epic tier encounters for inspiration. I could go through the table of contents of each magazine, but that is tedious. Is there a list of all the epic level adventures anywhere, or could anyone recommend some to look at?

If there is a current dungeon magazine index where I can search 4e adventures by level, that would be fantastic, but if so I cannot find it.

#2
mysticbelmont
Aug 07, 2011 23:59:15 I wish I could help you out, but sadly the amount of adventures at epic level are rather low.
#3
paulstrait
Aug 08, 2011 0:05:10 I remember when 4E came out, the party line was that unlike previous editions, every level from 1 through 30 would be equally playable. Is this still the party line, or has wizards acknowledged epic difficulties? Or is the dearth of epic materials simply because most campaigns never make it to epic?
#4
mysticbelmont
Aug 08, 2011 0:06:58 Most don't play epic because Wizards hasn't put out enough for epic, because not enough people are playing epic.
#5
Style75
Aug 08, 2011 6:01:23 The neglect of epic tier by WotC has been my greatest disappointment with 4e. Lately they even stopped creating epic level monsters (MV2 had NO epics). There has been minimal epic adventures, the most notable of which are "Scales of War" adventure path and the E1, E2 and E3 modules.

Epic is definitely playable, but be prepared to ramp up the difficulty ALOT. Pre-MM3 monsters hit way too lightly so I'd recommend using the damage expressions from the Essentials dungeon master book and new deluxe DM screen. Also, elites and solos at epic tier need some way to shrug off conditions like dazed, stunned, and dominated because every class can give these conditions in epic. For an idea on how to do this, check out the new chromatic dragons in the Monster Vault and MV2. In general, the DM really has to work at epic tier to keep the difficulty level high.

The hardest part about epic tier is making it feel right. At this level, PC's are approaching godhood and are true superheroes. To put it in perspective, Elminster and Drizzt are around level 19. You need to make sure you create stories and settings that reflect this level of power. I've played a lot of epic tier and my advice is play it up to the max and pull out all the stops. Whatever craziness you can imagine, do it. What I did is use the books Plane Below and Plane Above as inspiration and sent my PC's on a wild tear trough the planes. I also made sure to give them plenty of opportunity to fight classic D&D villians: Doresain, Orcus, Lolth, Tiamat and others. Fighting such famous creatures really brought home the fact that the PC's were playing on the big stage and the stakes were the safety of the universe.

One last word of caution, epic level fights are LONG. A full on battle against a solo with a couple of henchmen can run 3 hours or more. What I discovered is that I had to do more roleplay and skill challenges and fewer combats. This meant that I had to adjust how I awarded XP if I wanted the players to level up at about the same rate as they did before.

Epic can be really fun, but you need to be very creative. It's not broken, but instead is neglected and as a result needs a little more effort by the DM to make it feel right.
#6
cackmed
Mar 11, 2012 5:13:26 Style75

I know its been a number of months since this was posted and sorry for being nit picky but "Elminster and Drizzt are around level 19." this irked me a bit while it isn't off that far for Drizzt I think he's level sixteen its way off for Elminster who has a challenge rating of 39 with 35 levels distrubeted over a number of classes. These figures are before the spell plague so they may be wrong if they are then my apoligies for making a big deal over this when I was wrong.

#7
Style75
Mar 15, 2012 9:20:28
Style75

I know its been a number of months since this was posted and sorry for being nit picky but "Elminster and Drizzt are around level 19." this irked me a bit while it isn't off that far for Drizzt I think he's level sixteen its way off for Elminster who has a challenge rating of 39 with 35 levels distrubeted over a number of classes. These figures are before the spell plague so they may be wrong if they are then my apoligies for making a big deal over this when I was wrong.

Check the compendium or the online monster builder. Both Drizzt and Elminster were fully statted for 4e through Dungeon articles. Drizzt is level 21 (Dungeon 171) and Elminster is level 19 (Dungeon 181).
#8
cackmed
Mar 16, 2012 7:17:28 My mistake sorry about that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 paulstrait Jul 16, 2011 19:33:52	I need some help with my campaign that is now in the epic tier (I'm finding that the epic tier in 4e doesn't play as smoothly as I hoped and encounter design is tricky, but I can't give up on my campaign b/c it has been running continuously for 3 years and there are so many plot lines that are culminating at this point). I was hoping to look through epic tier encounters for inspiration. I could go through the table of contents of each magazine, but that is tedious. Is there a list of all the epic level adventures anywhere, or could anyone recommend some to look at? If there is a current dungeon magazine index where I can search 4e adventures by level, that would be fantastic, but if so I cannot find it.
#2 mysticbelmont Aug 07, 2011 23:59:15	I wish I could help you out, but sadly the amount of adventures at epic level are rather low.
#3 paulstrait Aug 08, 2011 0:05:10	I remember when 4E came out, the party line was that unlike previous editions, every level from 1 through 30 would be equally playable. Is this still the party line, or has wizards acknowledged epic difficulties? Or is the dearth of epic materials simply because most campaigns never make it to epic?
#4 mysticbelmont Aug 08, 2011 0:06:58	Most don't play epic because Wizards hasn't put out enough for epic, because not enough people are playing epic.
#5 Style75 Aug 08, 2011 6:01:23	The neglect of epic tier by WotC has been my greatest disappointment with 4e. Lately they even stopped creating epic level monsters (MV2 had NO epics). There has been minimal epic adventures, the most notable of which are "Scales of War" adventure path and the E1, E2 and E3 modules. Epic is definitely playable, but be prepared to ramp up the difficulty ALOT. Pre-MM3 monsters hit way too lightly so I'd recommend using the damage expressions from the Essentials dungeon master book and new deluxe DM screen. Also, elites and solos at epic tier need some way to shrug off conditions like dazed, stunned, and dominated because every class can give these conditions in epic. For an idea on how to do this, check out the new chromatic dragons in the Monster Vault and MV2. In general, the DM really has to work at epic tier to keep the difficulty level high. The hardest part about epic tier is making it feel right. At this level, PC's are approaching godhood and are true superheroes. To put it in perspective, Elminster and Drizzt are around level 19. You need to make sure you create stories and settings that reflect this level of power. I've played a lot of epic tier and my advice is play it up to the max and pull out all the stops. Whatever craziness you can imagine, do it. What I did is use the books Plane Below and Plane Above as inspiration and sent my PC's on a wild tear trough the planes. I also made sure to give them plenty of opportunity to fight classic D&D villians: Doresain, Orcus, Lolth, Tiamat and others. Fighting such famous creatures really brought home the fact that the PC's were playing on the big stage and the stakes were the safety of the universe. One last word of caution, epic level fights are LONG. A full on battle against a solo with a couple of henchmen can run 3 hours or more. What I discovered is that I had to do more roleplay and skill challenges and fewer combats. This meant that I had to adjust how I awarded XP if I wanted the players to level up at about the same rate as they did before. Epic can be really fun, but you need to be very creative. It's not broken, but instead is neglected and as a result needs a little more effort by the DM to make it feel right.
#6 cackmed Mar 11, 2012 5:13:26	Style75 I know its been a number of months since this was posted and sorry for being nit picky but "Elminster and Drizzt are around level 19." this irked me a bit while it isn't off that far for Drizzt I think he's level sixteen its way off for Elminster who has a challenge rating of 39 with 35 levels distrubeted over a number of classes. These figures are before the spell plague so they may be wrong if they are then my apoligies for making a big deal over this when I was wrong.
#7 Style75 Mar 15, 2012 9:20:28	Style75 I know its been a number of months since this was posted and sorry for being nit picky but "Elminster and Drizzt are around level 19." this irked me a bit while it isn't off that far for Drizzt I think he's level sixteen its way off for Elminster who has a challenge rating of 39 with 35 levels distrubeted over a number of classes. These figures are before the spell plague so they may be wrong if they are then my apoligies for making a big deal over this when I was wrong. Check the compendium or the online monster builder. Both Drizzt and Elminster were fully statted for 4e through Dungeon articles. Drizzt is level 21 (Dungeon 171) and Elminster is level 19 (Dungeon 181).
#8 cackmed Mar 16, 2012 7:17:28	My mistake sorry about that.