Error in the CB or did I miss an errata - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Error in the CB or did I miss an errata

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jusmhar
Nov 19, 2010 10:33:23 Hey. I play LFR and my Wizvoker {hybrid wizard invoker} just reached level 2. Now I still have the old CB because that's the one I have access too. When I went to pick out my level 2 utlities, it only showed me Invoker utilities and skill utilities, not wizard ones. I wanted to grab shield since the DMs love to target me for some reason. Now I also noticed the wizard cantrips are considered utilities now and was wondering if i missed an eratta that said that counts towards the balance of powers for wizard hybrids. I personally don't think so since it's part of what the hybrid wizard brings. one of my friends who has the browser CB says that he can grab wizard utilities {even if shield is missing for some reason} at lv. 2 with a wizvoker. So is a glitch in the old CB or did i miss an eratta? Kinda important since LFR characters need to be 100% legal.
#2
GelatinousOctahedron
Nov 19, 2010 11:43:20
I know it is not an errata, so it is most likely a glitch of some sort. I created a hybrid cleric/shaman the other day on the new builder and it did the utility selecetion just fine, giving me a choice of cleric, shaman, or utility powers to pick from for level 2.
#3
dybrarh
Nov 19, 2010 12:01:21
What the old character builder is doing is perfectly RAW (though of course it did not last long enough to see all classes updated as follows). According to the hybrid rules, if a hybrid character has at least two powers in the same category (at-will attack, encounter attack, daily attack, utility), at least one of them must come from each of its hybrid classes; and according to the Rules Compendium, every power is either an attack or an utility power, with no in-betweens.

As such, powers that used to be considered class features now are either attack or utility powers as well, like the cleric's Healing Word or the wizard's cantrips – which in turn means that if a hybrid class comes with an inherent power (cantrips, Wild Shape, Healing Word, etc.), you must pick a power of the corresponding type from your other class if given the opportunity, until you possess at least one power of a given type from each hybrid class again. If both of your hybrid classes come with inherent utility powers, like e.g. a cleric/wizard combination would, you could freely choose from both classes' available utility powers at level 2, on the other hand.

Until the hybrid rules are errata'd this is how it works, and the new CB is in the wrong if it lets you double up on wizard utilities at level 2.
#4
salla
Nov 19, 2010 12:01:54 It's a glitch. What's happening is, all powers were recategorized into either 'attack' or 'utility' powers. Your wizard cantrips are now utility powers.

The hybrid rules state that you must have one utility power from each class (I'm simplifying). Before the recategorization, you could pick either a wizard or invoker utility at L2, then had to pick the other at L6. Since you now already have a wizard utility power (your cantrips), the builder is mistakenly forcing you to take an invoker utility to meet the hybrid 'one of each' requirements.

You can use the Houserule icon to force the CB to give you a wizard power. While this technically renders your character houseruled, you're using it to do something perfectly legal, so it shouldn't be an issue.
#5
dbmeboy
Nov 20, 2010 23:35:06
It's a glitch. What's happening is, all powers were recategorized into either 'attack' or 'utility' powers. Your wizard cantrips are now utility powers.

The hybrid rules state that you must have one utility power from each class (I'm simplifying). Before the recategorization, you could pick either a wizard or invoker utility at L2, then had to pick the other at L6. Since you now already have a wizard utility power (your cantrips), the builder is mistakenly forcing you to take an invoker utility to meet the hybrid 'one of each' requirements.

You can use the Houserule icon to force the CB to give you a wizard power. While this technically renders your character houseruled, you're using it to do something perfectly legal, so it shouldn't be an issue.

The builder is not mistaken, that is RAW.
#6
zamrod
Nov 21, 2010 5:29:40 It's not RAW. The powers were always supposed to be class features, not actual powers. They got changed into powers to make it easier to put them into the character builder, that's all.

I'm fairly certain that none of the designers wrote the requirement to have a power from each of your classes thinking that the cantrips qualified. But they weren't thinking in terms of really strict categories the way a computer program or really, really strict rules lawyers would.
#7
illcom94
Nov 21, 2010 19:41:34 If this is the case, then until they get it fixed, a work around would be to just unselect the cantrips for now so you can select the more important powers, and just make a note of the cantrips. It blows, but hopefully they'll get a fix out soon.
#8
dbmeboy
Nov 21, 2010 20:59:14
It's not RAW. The powers were always supposed to be class features, not actual powers. They got changed into powers to make it easier to put them into the character builder, that's all.

I'm fairly certain that none of the designers wrote the requirement to have a power from each of your classes thinking that the cantrips qualified. But they weren't thinking in terms of really strict categories the way a computer program or really, really strict rules lawyers would.

It actually is RAW, but maybe not RAI. Hybrid rules require that you have a utility power from each class before choosing a 2nd utility power from the first class. Cantrips are utility powers. The rules may not have been written thinking that, but it is the the rules as written.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jusmhar Nov 19, 2010 10:33:23	Hey. I play LFR and my Wizvoker {hybrid wizard invoker} just reached level 2. Now I still have the old CB because that's the one I have access too. When I went to pick out my level 2 utlities, it only showed me Invoker utilities and skill utilities, not wizard ones. I wanted to grab shield since the DMs love to target me for some reason. Now I also noticed the wizard cantrips are considered utilities now and was wondering if i missed an eratta that said that counts towards the balance of powers for wizard hybrids. I personally don't think so since it's part of what the hybrid wizard brings. one of my friends who has the browser CB says that he can grab wizard utilities {even if shield is missing for some reason} at lv. 2 with a wizvoker. So is a glitch in the old CB or did i miss an eratta? Kinda important since LFR characters need to be 100% legal.
#2 GelatinousOctahedron Nov 19, 2010 11:43:20	I know it is not an errata, so it is most likely a glitch of some sort. I created a hybrid cleric/shaman the other day on the new builder and it did the utility selecetion just fine, giving me a choice of cleric, shaman, or utility powers to pick from for level 2.
#3 dybrarh Nov 19, 2010 12:01:21	What the old character builder is doing is perfectly RAW (though of course it did not last long enough to see all classes updated as follows). According to the hybrid rules, if a hybrid character has at least two powers in the same category (at-will attack, encounter attack, daily attack, utility), at least one of them must come from each of its hybrid classes; and according to the Rules Compendium, every power is either an attack or an utility power, with no in-betweens. As such, powers that used to be considered class features now are either attack or utility powers as well, like the cleric's Healing Word or the wizard's cantrips – which in turn means that if a hybrid class comes with an inherent power (cantrips, Wild Shape, Healing Word, etc.), you must pick a power of the corresponding type from your other class if given the opportunity, until you possess at least one power of a given type from each hybrid class again. If both of your hybrid classes come with inherent utility powers, like e.g. a cleric/wizard combination would, you could freely choose from both classes' available utility powers at level 2, on the other hand. Until the hybrid rules are errata'd this is how it works, and the new CB is in the wrong if it lets you double up on wizard utilities at level 2.
#4 salla Nov 19, 2010 12:01:54	It's a glitch. What's happening is, all powers were recategorized into either 'attack' or 'utility' powers. Your wizard cantrips are now utility powers. The hybrid rules state that you must have one utility power from each class (I'm simplifying). Before the recategorization, you could pick either a wizard or invoker utility at L2, then had to pick the other at L6. Since you now already have a wizard utility power (your cantrips), the builder is mistakenly forcing you to take an invoker utility to meet the hybrid 'one of each' requirements. You can use the Houserule icon to force the CB to give you a wizard power. While this technically renders your character houseruled, you're using it to do something perfectly legal, so it shouldn't be an issue.
#5 dbmeboy Nov 20, 2010 23:35:06	It's a glitch. What's happening is, all powers were recategorized into either 'attack' or 'utility' powers. Your wizard cantrips are now utility powers. The hybrid rules state that you must have one utility power from each class (I'm simplifying). Before the recategorization, you could pick either a wizard or invoker utility at L2, then had to pick the other at L6. Since you now already have a wizard utility power (your cantrips), the builder is mistakenly forcing you to take an invoker utility to meet the hybrid 'one of each' requirements. You can use the Houserule icon to force the CB to give you a wizard power. While this technically renders your character houseruled, you're using it to do something perfectly legal, so it shouldn't be an issue. The builder is not mistaken, that is RAW.
#6 zamrod Nov 21, 2010 5:29:40	It's not RAW. The powers were always supposed to be class features, not actual powers. They got changed into powers to make it easier to put them into the character builder, that's all. I'm fairly certain that none of the designers wrote the requirement to have a power from each of your classes thinking that the cantrips qualified. But they weren't thinking in terms of really strict categories the way a computer program or really, really strict rules lawyers would.
#7 illcom94 Nov 21, 2010 19:41:34	If this is the case, then until they get it fixed, a work around would be to just unselect the cantrips for now so you can select the more important powers, and just make a note of the cantrips. It blows, but hopefully they'll get a fix out soon.
#8 dbmeboy Nov 21, 2010 20:59:14	It's not RAW. The powers were always supposed to be class features, not actual powers. They got changed into powers to make it easier to put them into the character builder, that's all. I'm fairly certain that none of the designers wrote the requirement to have a power from each of your classes thinking that the cantrips qualified. But they weren't thinking in terms of really strict categories the way a computer program or really, really strict rules lawyers would. It actually is RAW, but maybe not RAI. Hybrid rules require that you have a utility power from each class before choosing a 2nd utility power from the first class. Cantrips are utility powers. The rules may not have been written thinking that, but it is the the rules as written.