Extended Rest in Rivenroar and in SoW, where specifically? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Extended Rest in Rivenroar and in SoW, where specifically?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
movieholic
Aug 05, 2010 0:24:32 Greetings,

My players and myself as DM would like to know how you determine where to place an extended rest. Some suggestions in this forum would be in an empty room where the ettercaps are in Rivenroar for example.

How do you as DM or player decide what makes the most sense for example? How do you handle the prisoners if you have them as well?

Thanks for the advice in advance,

DM Michael and the rest of the gang
#2
gargs454
Aug 05, 2010 9:59:14 Well, as a general rule of thumb, taking an extended rest in a dungeon is not the best of ideas. Think of it from the monsters perspectives. What are they doing during the 6 or so hours the party is resting? Are they just going to sit there in the next room wondering whatever happened to Bob the Goblin? Are they going to investigate? If they investigate, what are they going to do when they see their comrades have been killed?

Now, all of that being said, there are steps that a party can (and should) take. You can try barricading the entrances to the room you are resting in. This will likely protect you, but also alert the rest of the dungeon denizens. You can also back out of the dungeon and rest somewhere outside. The monsters will know that somebody has been through there, but, a search of the dungeon reveals that the intruders have left.

All of that being said, as the DM, I try to take a look at how the party has been doing, are they trying to push themselves sufficiently, etc. Additionally, there is simply very little chance of going through Rivenroar without a rest (though the later adventures improve on this). If the party is legitemately trying to get a good number of encounters in but the dungeon simply has too many encounters, I'll usually allow it. If they are taking extended rests after every other encounter though, generally there will be consequences (getting attacked in their sleep), monsters moving, non-rescued prisoners dying, etc.

As a player, the main thing you need to look at when deciding if you need to rest is your healing surges. A character lacking healing surges is going to be in trouble more often than not (if you don't get hit often, you likely are fine on surges, etc.). Dailies play some role too but not as much. Most encounters will not require dailies to survive (though certainly they help). In the end though, if you have no surges, and no access to surgeless healing, you should probably take a rest.
#3
nyteskie
Aug 05, 2010 11:31:52
From a strictly location-based analysis, the module suggests the only real safe place to rest is outside the dungeon in the woods outside Rivenroar. Your PCs may certainly try to rest inside; in that event, it's up to the DM to decide the consequences of that choice - essentially striking a balance between PC safeguards and monster reaction.

For that, Gargs covered it pretty well. I'd just add that, from someone who feels in retrospect that I could have conveyed the consequences of extended rests better, you'll need to carefully consider what a realistic monster response would be, how to give your PCs a reasonable opportunity to take an extended rest AND avoiding the necessity of having to change/add too much to the adventure.

When my party would take extended rests, they'd simply barricade themselves in a room, set a ward of alarm, and set a watch. I didn't consider monster movements or response; I simply allowed the PCs to rest, once in the Rivenroar family crypt, and once in the smaller room of the Von Adrez-Kauthin crypt. Later, when they were clearing out the final rooms on the first floor (they skipped the Von Ursted crypt and went to the lower level on finding the stairs), I decided that they'd let too much time go by, and had the dwarf die when they heard labored, rattling breaths from the back area but did not investigate until after a short rest (I made a couple of death saves for Adronsius, which he failed miserably).

Realistically, the monsters probably would not have sat idle for 6-8 hours while the PCs slept. Realistically, they'd probably either try to break down the doors and attack in force or set up an ambush. At the very least, they'd have the dungeon on high alert so every monster in the dungeon would be ready and waiting when the PCs awoke. Would that likely result in PC death? Quite possibly. Is it a fair penalty for taking an extended rest? Depends on how "hardcore" your DMing style is, I suppose. Does Sinruth have any other minions at his disposal? Are there hobgoblin patrols that could be recalled to reinforce the Red Hand's numbers? Do you want the PCs fighting in this dungeon forever?

The third thing to consider is the time investment necessary to alter the adventure if you want to make accomodations for the monster's activities during the extended rest. If, like me, one of the reasons you chose the adventure path was so that you could avoid having to do TOO much legwork on adventure prep as DM, you may prefer to keep 'dumber' monsters to avoid having to deal with all the ramifcations an extended rest COULD have.

Hope this helps!
#4
Misroi
Aug 10, 2010 21:07:06 Rescue at Rivenroar is problematic, since it's little more than an extended dungeon slog, with a rescue mechanic attached. Extended rests will be needed in there, partly because it is an endurance test, but also because it's a 1st-2nd level endurance test. PCs are very much slaves to the die at that level, as they don't have options to work with. The party should probably get two extended rests within Rivenroar. They're both free, but the second should kill Kartenix. Yes, he dies in the mod, but then it feels like they're responsible for his death, and motivates them to try to not take a third. If they do, then another captive is killed - you'll have to determine which one, depending on who they rescue during those first two treks.

Siege is pretty easy - there's only a few parts where an extended rest makes sense. They should feel the need to head through the Monastery without an extended rest, since they're trying to find survivors. After that, a trek through the Vents should be almost entirely one extended rests, and if Kalad is still alive, he should try to direct them to take on the encounters outside of The Nexus before dealing with that one. An extended rest there is definitely in order, as The Nexus will likely tax them to their breaking point.

Shadow Rift is again pretty easy, even if the module is disjointed. The first extended rest should come after they deal with the caverns beneath the Beggar's Rest. The second after the fight in the Foundry, and the third after they defeat the Tower's denizens.

Lost Mines of Karak is again pretty easy. Since the first three fights are the only fight that day, they need to be beefed up in order to be considered dangerous. Once in the Karak Lode, they will probably need two extended rests. They will certainly need one after dealing with the trogs at the front door, the harpy/carrion crawler fight, and the Queen in her throne room - but since you can't predict which way they'll go, they might head to the lower levels first, and be lower on resources and decide to rest. Once they're done with the top level, they should get a full rest before heading into the mines themselves.

Den of the Destroyer is another weird one, since the only place extended rests are important is in Fortress Greystone. I think the best way is to not let them get an extended rest until they've cleared out everything but the ritual chamber - plus that means they're not completely rested for the Gilgathorn fight, which is the way it's meant to go.

Finally, The Temple Between has its own ways of dealing with extended rests. Sure, you can rest after every single encounter - but you're missing out on victory points if you do. I consider that internally balanced.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 movieholic Aug 05, 2010 0:24:32	Greetings, My players and myself as DM would like to know how you determine where to place an extended rest. Some suggestions in this forum would be in an empty room where the ettercaps are in Rivenroar for example. How do you as DM or player decide what makes the most sense for example? How do you handle the prisoners if you have them as well? Thanks for the advice in advance, DM Michael and the rest of the gang
#2 gargs454 Aug 05, 2010 9:59:14	Well, as a general rule of thumb, taking an extended rest in a dungeon is not the best of ideas. Think of it from the monsters perspectives. What are they doing during the 6 or so hours the party is resting? Are they just going to sit there in the next room wondering whatever happened to Bob the Goblin? Are they going to investigate? If they investigate, what are they going to do when they see their comrades have been killed? Now, all of that being said, there are steps that a party can (and should) take. You can try barricading the entrances to the room you are resting in. This will likely protect you, but also alert the rest of the dungeon denizens. You can also back out of the dungeon and rest somewhere outside. The monsters will know that somebody has been through there, but, a search of the dungeon reveals that the intruders have left. All of that being said, as the DM, I try to take a look at how the party has been doing, are they trying to push themselves sufficiently, etc. Additionally, there is simply very little chance of going through Rivenroar without a rest (though the later adventures improve on this). If the party is legitemately trying to get a good number of encounters in but the dungeon simply has too many encounters, I'll usually allow it. If they are taking extended rests after every other encounter though, generally there will be consequences (getting attacked in their sleep), monsters moving, non-rescued prisoners dying, etc. As a player, the main thing you need to look at when deciding if you need to rest is your healing surges. A character lacking healing surges is going to be in trouble more often than not (if you don't get hit often, you likely are fine on surges, etc.). Dailies play some role too but not as much. Most encounters will not require dailies to survive (though certainly they help). In the end though, if you have no surges, and no access to surgeless healing, you should probably take a rest.
#3 nyteskie Aug 05, 2010 11:31:52	From a strictly location-based analysis, the module suggests the only real safe place to rest is outside the dungeon in the woods outside Rivenroar. Your PCs may certainly try to rest inside; in that event, it's up to the DM to decide the consequences of that choice - essentially striking a balance between PC safeguards and monster reaction. For that, Gargs covered it pretty well. I'd just add that, from someone who feels in retrospect that I could have conveyed the consequences of extended rests better, you'll need to carefully consider what a realistic monster response would be, how to give your PCs a reasonable opportunity to take an extended rest AND avoiding the necessity of having to change/add too much to the adventure. When my party would take extended rests, they'd simply barricade themselves in a room, set a ward of alarm, and set a watch. I didn't consider monster movements or response; I simply allowed the PCs to rest, once in the Rivenroar family crypt, and once in the smaller room of the Von Adrez-Kauthin crypt. Later, when they were clearing out the final rooms on the first floor (they skipped the Von Ursted crypt and went to the lower level on finding the stairs), I decided that they'd let too much time go by, and had the dwarf die when they heard labored, rattling breaths from the back area but did not investigate until after a short rest (I made a couple of death saves for Adronsius, which he failed miserably). Realistically, the monsters probably would not have sat idle for 6-8 hours while the PCs slept. Realistically, they'd probably either try to break down the doors and attack in force or set up an ambush. At the very least, they'd have the dungeon on high alert so every monster in the dungeon would be ready and waiting when the PCs awoke. Would that likely result in PC death? Quite possibly. Is it a fair penalty for taking an extended rest? Depends on how "hardcore" your DMing style is, I suppose. Does Sinruth have any other minions at his disposal? Are there hobgoblin patrols that could be recalled to reinforce the Red Hand's numbers? Do you want the PCs fighting in this dungeon forever? The third thing to consider is the time investment necessary to alter the adventure if you want to make accomodations for the monster's activities during the extended rest. If, like me, one of the reasons you chose the adventure path was so that you could avoid having to do TOO much legwork on adventure prep as DM, you may prefer to keep 'dumber' monsters to avoid having to deal with all the ramifcations an extended rest COULD have. Hope this helps!
#4 Misroi Aug 10, 2010 21:07:06	Rescue at Rivenroar is problematic, since it's little more than an extended dungeon slog, with a rescue mechanic attached. Extended rests will be needed in there, partly because it is an endurance test, but also because it's a 1st-2nd level endurance test. PCs are very much slaves to the die at that level, as they don't have options to work with. The party should probably get two extended rests within Rivenroar. They're both free, but the second should kill Kartenix. Yes, he dies in the mod, but then it feels like they're responsible for his death, and motivates them to try to not take a third. If they do, then another captive is killed - you'll have to determine which one, depending on who they rescue during those first two treks. Siege is pretty easy - there's only a few parts where an extended rest makes sense. They should feel the need to head through the Monastery without an extended rest, since they're trying to find survivors. After that, a trek through the Vents should be almost entirely one extended rests, and if Kalad is still alive, he should try to direct them to take on the encounters outside of The Nexus before dealing with that one. An extended rest there is definitely in order, as The Nexus will likely tax them to their breaking point. Shadow Rift is again pretty easy, even if the module is disjointed. The first extended rest should come after they deal with the caverns beneath the Beggar's Rest. The second after the fight in the Foundry, and the third after they defeat the Tower's denizens. Lost Mines of Karak is again pretty easy. Since the first three fights are the only fight that day, they need to be beefed up in order to be considered dangerous. Once in the Karak Lode, they will probably need two extended rests. They will certainly need one after dealing with the trogs at the front door, the harpy/carrion crawler fight, and the Queen in her throne room - but since you can't predict which way they'll go, they might head to the lower levels first, and be lower on resources and decide to rest. Once they're done with the top level, they should get a full rest before heading into the mines themselves. Den of the Destroyer is another weird one, since the only place extended rests are important is in Fortress Greystone. I think the best way is to not let them get an extended rest until they've cleared out everything but the ritual chamber - plus that means they're not completely rested for the Gilgathorn fight, which is the way it's meant to go. Finally, The Temple Between has its own ways of dealing with extended rests. Sure, you can rest after every single encounter - but you're missing out on victory points if you do. I consider that internally balanced.