Setting this feedback thread in advance for Randy's Digital Insider #6, due to go live later today.
as for the pricing:
- i want to commit to more than 12 months. how much would it cost me, then?
- i don't want dm stuff. any way to get it cheaper?
as for the articles:
they are ok. they are definitely far below a new book each month, especially as about half of it are only for dms.
and it would be really nice to get a fixed schedule on the articles upfront. else the whole "we give you the articles upfront" becomes a moot point. also, i'd really want you to consider doing the articles longer upfront. currently, it looks like they are written just before they go live. editing is
as for the pricing:
- i want to commit to more than 12 months. how much would it cost me, then?
I don't think there is anything greater than a one year subscription. The current plan released only has three levels.
Web-Content Only Subscription Package:
12 Months = $59.40 ($4.95 per month)
3 Months = $19.95 ($6.65 per month)
1 Month = $7.95 ($7.95 per month)
and it would be really nice to get a fixed schedule on the articles upfront.
I agree with this, as well as getting some release dates for the future articles. Maybe put the date they're going to be released in red?
I know that when I see an article that's going to be published at some point this month, it's really frustrating to have to check back so frequently to see if it may have been published yet.
I would like to than you for taking the time to listen to the members of the forum and going back on your previous decision to not release an AP summary. Looing at it, I think that it is enough of a compromise between surprise for the players and info for the DM to lay future hooks, etc.
To the forum goers who disagreed with the previous decision: Thank you for expressing your displeasure in a polite and articulate way. I have no doubt that the polite disagreements with the opinion, combined with the persuasive, well-written arguments went a long way towards swaying WotC into changing their minds. I always knew that, much like people who are DNRC members, DDI forum regs[1] are smarter, more good looking and more successful than members of the rest of the forum.
[1]Except for that WolfStar guy. I wouldn't trust those RPGA people. :D
About previews of classes in PH2.. I find that giving us a snapshot of what you're thinking about *all* the "old classics" (sorcerer, barbarian, druid, bard) would be a great move.. not only would allow us for playtesting the mechanics of the classes we were used to, but also would allow some people to go beyond the (quite useless) articles about "converting your character"!
I really look forward to see how you reformed the druid, for exemple (the barbarian, honestly, seems to me the less important release among the old favorites, its concept could be to some extent simulated by a brutal fighter).
Don't worry if the PHB2 version will be very different.. just exploit the fanbase you have to playtest all the new classes as they evolve... we will buy the book in all case!
Finally, the more customizable in terms of price, content and services you'll make the subscription to DDI, the more solid subscriptions you'll have (to be more precise: the more happy subscribers you'll have).
And please! Tell us that when the character builder will be ready, you'll include in the current subscription offer without additional charges! At least until the virtual game-table is online..
[1]Except for that WolfStar guy. I wouldn't trust those RPGA people. :D
I've never claimed to be trustworthy.
*Nibbles the cookie I filched from mudbunny's lunchbox when he wasn't looking*
When does the free trail end? "relatively soon" doesn't help us here. You need to let us know when we won't be able to get Dragon or Dungeon content anymore...
Because I'm not buying that. Way too expensive for that amount of content. I would venture to guess that 2/3 of the people who keep up with DDi, will not be buying it unless you get the other tools in first. So good luck with that.
I like that! Good to see that they respond!
Cheers, LT.
Then again maybe that's the point, they are stand a lone adventures with a slight connection more in the lines of the H series. Which a shell adventure path isn't a bad thing, just not for my group. The background article was nice but didn't seem to have anything to do with this AP over any other game.
The encounter builder needs to have stats, maybe print out in delve format. Maybe one of my players will sign up and I'll occasionaly check the dungeon issues.
Well done on the overview. I appreciate that.
When does the free trail end? "relatively soon" doesn't help us here. You need to let us know when we won't be able to get Dragon or Dungeon content anymore...
Because I'm not buying that. Way too expensive for that amount of content. I would venture to guess that 2/3 of the people who keep up with DDi, will not be buying it unless you get the other tools in first. So good luck with that.
I have a feeling the free trial will end when the character maker is ready.
I have a feeling the free trial will end when the character maker is ready.
so, we will have quite some free trial time still.
wasn't that the part about just background stuff to be done which noone believed?Well done on the overview. I appreciate that.
When does the free trail end? "relatively soon" doesn't help us here. You need to let us know when we won't be able to get Dragon or Dungeon content anymore...
Because I'm not buying that. Way too expensive for that amount of content. I would venture to guess that 2/3 of the people who keep up with DDi, will not be buying it unless you get the other tools in first. So good luck with that.
You'll probably find out when you attempt to logon and it asks for your payment info. At that point it will no longer be free.
What difference does knowing ahead of time make? Are you planning a big gathering to watch you not sign up? ;)
Alright, that overview is better than nothing I guess, and I do sincerely appreciate the response to our complaints.
But honestly, I just want to grab whoever is responsible for holding back and shake them until something rattles loose! We (the DMs for Scales of War) are still being held back. Instead of being given tools, we are being blindfolded.
At this point, I'm actually hoping that the people who are speculating that its just being held back until paid subscriptions start are right. At least then, I'll have some hope that future Adventure Paths will be presented with an overview immediately.
What difference does knowing ahead of time make? Are you planning a big gathering to watch you not sign up? ;)
LOL!!! I'll bring the Funyuns and Mt Dew!!!
It would be nice to hear that X month will be the last month of free content though.
LOL!!! I'll bring the Funyuns and Mt Dew!!!
It would be nice to hear that X month will be the last month of free content though.
I'll bring the cheesey poofs. AND we'll have someone use Magic Missiles at the darkness while we're at it!!
Seriously, I'd like to know simply so that I can look forward to stuff that might be coming out or not. Thats all.
wait, does the 4.95/6.65/7.95 subscription include the dnd game table? or is it just the magazines?
Been there, did that.
The price includes mostly just the magazines and bonus tools, web content. It does not include game table, character visualizer, etc. that ate not ready for us yet anyway. hey will cost more, if you buy the year and full package is offered in 6 months you will get credit for unused portion of web content only package for purchase of full package.
As for the other news: I'm really anxious to see the Intelligent Magic Item Rules and the Domains of Dread concept. There's enough to look forward to that I'll prolly buy the first few issues for certain, even if I don't go for the extended subscription.
Is the $7.95/mo for Dragon and Dungeon both, or each?
A big thanks for being up front about the delay with the Barbarian class article. At least now we know it's been pushed back a month and not just pulled completely.
Being up front? It's basically the same they did with the DDI Apps.
"Hey isn't everything so great yadda yadda we are so excited yadda yadda we will release the stuff *cogh* *cogh* later than we initially anounced *cough* *cough*"
It seems that they still don't have the guts just to say "Sorry we thought we could release it this month, but it'll be late".
Being up front? It's basically the same they did with the DDI Apps.
It seems that they still don't have the guts just to say "Sorry we thought we could release it this month, but it'll be late".
I'd rather have them say that stuff will be late then them not saying anything at all. Thats what they did with this insider, told us NOTHING about the DDi tools. I don't consider the magazines part of it. Anyone can write an article and post it online.
As to the Playtest classes am I the only one that feels they are basically pointless in terms of a playtest process?
They show us the class at point in time a. By the time we have been able to do anything with it at that stage they have moved on to b. By the time our feedback comes in they are on to c or d. Then we don't see any update of the class at all.
These playtest classes really need to be a dynamic article - hey that would be part of the point of having an online magazine, dynamic content. That way they have the ability to get meaningful feedback from a huge playtest pool - rather than simply putting forward the pretense of involving us in the playtest process.
I may be the only negative voice here, but I'm not sure...I want to clear something up before I rant.
Is the $7.95/mo for Dragon and Dungeon both, or each?
Both magazines are included.
I may be the only negative voice here, but I'm not sure...I want to clear something up before I rant.
Is the $7.95/mo for Dragon and Dungeon both, or each?
Not much clarification on that (yet ;)). It would be great to pay 4 bucks average for each issue but my guess is that this will be the going rate for each (barring extended subscription discounts of course).
I think $7.95 is a bit much for a single PDF (considering that's what I was paying for the print mags late in the run). Lack of print is a definite drawback (for me, at least). It's right on the edge of what I am willing to pay for a PDF (even considering it's Dragon/Dungeon, quality mags); glad it's not much higher, it would drain a lot of my enthusiasm for the product ;).
I'm not quite enthusiastic enough (yet ;)) to spring for the extended subscription. I also prefer to examine issues individually before purchase. Looks like $7.95 is what I'll be paying. I'll prolly buy PDF issues occassionally, rather than "collectively" like I did the print issues.
Edit: I see Ranadiel has apparently added some clarification: 7.95 for both Dragon/Dungeon. That's great
.Edit: I see Ranadiel has apparently added some clarification: 7.95 for both Dragon/Dungeon. That's great
To be slightly more precise, the 7.95 price is the month to month price for the web content package which is basically everything that we have right now. So it will include both magazines, the compendium, and the bonus tools.
So 1 year in.....
......can I pay $7.95 (well the equivilent in £'s anywho) and get access to the whole years content or?
......I pay my $7.95 and won't be able to get past issues ever?
or maybe you will be selling past issues for $3 a piece?
A response would be cool for this?
I would be in the mind that starting a subscription later on should allow you to pay a fee to get copies of previous months PDF's
A quite important question which has been mentioned on ENworld is when someone subscribes to Dungeon and Dragon do they get access to all the back issues as well.
So 1 year in.....
......can I pay $7.95 (well the equivilent in £'s anywho) and get access to the whole years content or?
......I pay my $7.95 and won't be able to get past issues ever?
or maybe you will be selling past issues for $3 a piece?
A response would be cool for this?
I would be in the mind that starting a subscription later on should allow you to pay a fee to get copies of previous months PDF's
Current plans is No you do not get back issues when you were not a member, plans however are to sell back issues at maybe 3 dollars each.
I'd rather have them say that stuff will be late then them not saying anything at all. Thats what they did with this insider, told us NOTHING about the DDi tools. I don't consider the magazines part of it. Anyone can write an article and post it online.
They did it with insider in exactly the same manner. It was in an Ampersand column. A lot of people didn't catch it because they didn't read ampersand or they did not notice that they said it since it was hidden in all that "everything is so great and exciting" yadda yadda :P
But Wizards wants $60/yr for their two mags and "digital offerings"?
I don't think so.
Obviously, this is just me talking. But my experience is that I'm not the unique snowflake I'd like to be and there's probably many that feel the same way.
I know this has been gone over and over. But everytime they bring it up my mind just does sommersaults, wonders "what are they thinking?", and has to say something.
Having said that, it's just about the opposite of exciting for me to know that I'll have to agree to pay around $60 a year for a subscription to Dungeon and Dragon. For what I've seen from the character generator and the encounter generator, they're kind of neat, but they aren't something I can see using very often. Ditto for the compendium.
So that basically cuts it down to paying $60/year (or more if you don't sign up for the yearlong contract) for Dungeon and Dragon. And to top it off, these are pdf only magazines. I work for a website. I stare at a computer screen all day long and the last thing I want to do is come home and exacerbate my eyestrain by trying to read more off my computer. So where does that leave me? Printing out the pdf's which ads another $50 for my cartridges (they have a lifespan of 2000 pages, which I think it's save to assume that printing out both issues each month will push me beyond that 2000 mark). And then there's paper on top of that. All in all it would cost me at least $130 for the subscription, not counting paper. This is why it just doesn't seem worth it to me. Will I subscribe? Probably for a short term, like I said, I'm still excited about 4th ed and I want it to be a success.
Sorry for the rant, but there are a lot of us out there who loathe the idea of spending our free time in front of a computer.
EDIT: haha, I realize that last sentence outed me as NOT an mmorpg'er
I have been very pleasantly surprised with the content of Dragon/Dungeon thus far since 4th Edition. I had let my subscription lapse a while back...but I think they have some good quality stuff coming out now. Would I rather have a good old fashioned hardcopy magazine than .pdf? Absolutely! I would pay much more for a real magazine than one I have to do myself. But I am at least glad I now have a fully formatted copy to work with...editorials, columns, table of contents, and all.
Speaking of which, am I the only strange one who misses ads in my Dragon? Don't get my wrong. I don't want the real content any less pages. And I would not want ads in a pdf version I am printing myself by any means. But I do kinda miss the days of the real magazine with ads intermingled on what is coming out, etc.
- Roc
NOT willing to pay for anything until I see some of the other D+DI tools--Character Builder foremost among them.
October will also see the Domains of Dread return to D&D, with the long-time Ravenloft concept being folded into the core now.
Does this mean that since Ravenloft is being "folded into the core" now, that there's no chance of it being released as a separate setting, a la Forgotten Realms or Eberron?
I may be the only negative voice here, but I'm not sure...I want to clear something up before I rant.
Is the $7.95/mo for Dragon and Dungeon both, or each?
-- [GQ3] What is included in the Web-Content Subscription?
- All Dragon and Dungeon content we produce during your subscription.
- The Online Compendium. The database that fuels the Compendium would include data from all official books and e-magazines.
- Bonus Tools which include an Encounter Generator as well as an Ability Generator.
So you get Both magazines, and access to the Compendium, plus the bonus tools. And as someone already mentioned that is for a month to month subscription. A year's subscription brings the cost of all that to about $4.95 a month.
The table of contents goes up at the beginning of the month and then new articles are posted every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday with a “full issue” compilation going up at the end of the month.
Is that "every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday" thing a hard and fast rule? It's Tuesday and I don't see anything posted for Monday. And is that one article each for Dungeon and Dragon or just one article in one of the magazines?
Right now, I'm not upset about anything as it's all free, but if I'm going to pay the monthly fee, I'd want some guarantees about how often new content is uploaded. And I don't consider excerpts from a book about to be published as 'new' content. Playtesting the new Barbarian class is something I'm willing to pay for; An article about 5 magic items that'll be in a book coming out in a couple of weeks... not so much.
You guys will need to be much more upfront about what you're planning on doing and a lot more strict about keeping to a schedule once you start charging. I can understand that something may come up - a writer doesn't get his article done and you have to post it late. In that case, I'd suggest having a backlog and publishing the next thing that pops off the stack. Either way, if I'm promised a new article 3 times a week and I'm paying money, there should be some guarantees.
Also, while I'm in here. When you change something between the initial article and the compiled PDF, there should be some sort of errata so that people will know to look at the latest published information instead of something that's possibly broken.
Other than that, good job, and I can't wait for the Character Builder and Visualizer.
Is that "every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday" thing a hard and fast rule? It's Tuesday and I don't see anything posted for Monday. And is that one article each for Dungeon and Dragon or just one article in one of the magazines?
The last announced plan was the intent to post something for at least one of the ezines each Monday and Wednesday and two on Friday.
I would describe it as a hard and fast plan, because indeed the caveat was added "we might from time to time miss planned deadlines".
I am not sure if I am going to play 4th edition or not, but I would like to know how to go about paying for a year subscription. Could you e-mail me and give me guidance on how to pay for the subscription?
I am not sure if I am going to play 4th edition or not, but I would like to know how to go about paying for a year subscription. Could you e-mail me and give me guidance on how to pay for the subscription?
To date there are no details. We've been told that payments will be processed by Digital River, but the rest is yet unknown.
I'm sure it will simply be a matter of going to the payment site, when it's up, choosing a one-year subscription, and paying for it all up front.
btw: i'd really hate it, if it was not a lump sum. i don't want regular payments. i want to use my credit card, once.
I know, it won't be the end of the world if that happens, but it seems fairly unprofessional and sloppy, especially considering they think their service is good enough to charge money for.
In every payment plan that I have seen that has different price points for short, medium, long-term payments, it is always a lump-sum.
Translation: No official word.
When someone says this, I keep pointing to my cell phone plan, which is a monthly payment, and cheaper when you get the longer contract. There's also my Gym Membership, and my subscription to Ultima Online.
Thats the way I prefer it.
Translation: No official word.
When someone says this, I keep pointing to my cell phone plan, which is a monthly payment, and cheaper when you get the longer contract. There's also my Gym Membership, and my subscription to Ultima Online.
Thats the way I prefer it.
Barring UO (are you saying they don't charge a lump-sum up front for discounted multi-month plans? I'm impressed and surprsied with them if so) your examples (typicallly) have signed contracts with strict financial penalties if you decide halfway through your contract that you're done with the service and no longer want to pay.
IE - Most cell phone companies charge an early disconnection fee of $150 - $300 for early termination.
While I expect to use DDI, and will be signing up for a longer-term with them, I will *not* agree to any sort of early termination fee. I'd rather pay less up-front and get what use out of it I see fit.
When the full game table system comes out, then i'll probably buy a 1 or 3-month pass, and decide then whether to go full year or cancel back to web-only.