Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 iconoplast Apr 06, 2010 13:54:46	Did I miss an Errata?  Focused Expertise is showing as houseruled, no info available for the feat, and I can't find it for new characters.
#2 rtrnofdmax Apr 06, 2010 14:02:10	Being or not being houseruled has to do with your campaign settings. Focused Expertise was either in a dragon article or was preview content before it hit PHB3. Check your campaign settings or reload and see if it fixes it.
#3 Majoru_Oakheart Apr 06, 2010 14:05:06	Or...what I think is more likely is that we'll need to wait an hour or so for the April errata to be posted to the website.  I'm guessing Focus Expertised got officially replaced by Versitle Expertise.
#4 iconoplast Apr 06, 2010 14:22:06	Oyea - forgot about Versatile.  Changed the feats & all is well. I also like Versatile Expertise being a heroic tier feat & not cluttering the feat selection screen w/ options.  Well done!
#5 Acrylium Apr 06, 2010 14:59:25	Focused Expertise wasn't the same as Versatile Expertise. You got the benefit of Focused Expertise using a single weapon coeval as an implement, while Versatile Expertise seems only usable when you use a weapon which is not simultaneously your implement.
#6 Stafir_Ortnev Apr 06, 2010 15:02:19	Checked it out with char builder myself...got a sorc who was using it. I'm able to use a dagger in either of the two choices..but once chosen in one area...the choice is gone from the other area.  However both melee and impliment powers (in this case any sorc power and ranged/melee basic) work with both Staff and Dagger..where applicable. Should edit this..Dagger was chosen in the section that showed all weapon groups..and staff was chosen in the section that showed all impliment groups...but it seemed to work.  If you are upset about focused expertise being gone...if anything versatile will make up for it all the same..so its at least a stopgap if its not functioning correctly.
#7 mikenekopi Apr 06, 2010 16:15:23	Focused Expertise was early playtest data from PHB3 (it appeared in the original monk playtest). It's not in the builder anymore because it was removed from PHB3 before publishing (obviously it evolved into Versatile Expertise). It never really existed; it was just a playtest feat that didn't make the final cut for publishing.
#8 Kaviyd3 Apr 07, 2010 14:55:32	It looks like all of my characters with Focused Expertise get a minor bonus once I replace that feat with Versatile Expertise.  One of the options gives me what Focused Expertise used to give me, but for a whole weapon group instead of a single specific weapon type.  I can then use the other option for a backup weapon or implement.  I am actually hoping that they don't change this, especially since the stricter interpretation that most of us were assuming before the most recent Character Builder update would have been far more likely to leave one of the options unused. Also, it looks like Weapon Expertise is even less useful than it was before.  For a single feat you can now gain expertise for two weapon groups.  That makes the Weapon Master feat far more expensive in comparison. Here is a question I have about the feat though:  Has anyone ever built a character who has any reason to take the Versatile Expertise feat a second time?
#9 rgagsthmch Apr 07, 2010 14:59:49	Wait, so how does this work if I use a Staff as an Implement as well as a weapon?  Do I take Staff for both options?  Does it even let me do that?
#10 Stafir_Ortnev Apr 07, 2010 16:09:11	For it, it'll let you take it only once...but it'll apply to both impliment and weapon attacks with that class of items (so anyone who uses weapons as impliments gets a huge bonus out of it)....most of us are waiting to see if this is the correct interpretation or if CB is just bugged.
#11 KarmaInferno Apr 07, 2010 21:33:26	Yeah, Versatile Expertise essentially gives you the same benefits of the old Focused Expertise, except TWICE - once for a weapon group, once for a implement group. The attack bonus does not care in either group if the powers used are implement or weapon keyword. It's as if you took two different Focused Expertise feats. Two for the price of one, which is a nice change. -karma
#12 tiamatdragonwing Apr 08, 2010 13:39:27	agree, if it sticks my hunter ranger should have an extra feat slot to customize her which would be nice
#13 zendyre Apr 09, 2010 19:52:05	I think Im missing something. When I select the Versatile Expertise feat, I dont see the option to select what weapon/implement to use it with as the feat bonus isnt figured into my attack bonus'. Is it not there or am I missing it. Edit - So you only get the benefit if you use a weapon and a an implement, but not just for a weapon?
#14 zgrose Apr 10, 2010 18:25:39	The weapon/implement choices are on the Class tab.
#15 salla Apr 10, 2010 20:09:27	I think Im missing something. When I select the Versatile Expertise feat, I dont see the option to select what weapon/implement to use it with as the feat bonus isnt figured into my attack bonus'. Is it not there or am I missing it. Edit - So you only get the benefit if you use a weapon and a an implement, but not just for a weapon?  If you just use a weapon, then you take Weapon Expertise. If you just use an implement, then you take Implement Expertise. If you use both, then you take Versatile Expertise.
#16 Kaviyd3 Apr 11, 2010 17:30:14	I think Im missing something. When I select the Versatile Expertise feat, I dont see the option to select what weapon/implement to use it with as the feat bonus isnt figured into my attack bonus'. Is it not there or am I missing it. Edit - So you only get the benefit if you use a weapon and a an implement, but not just for a weapon?  If you just use a weapon, then you take Weapon Expertise. If you just use an implement, then you take Implement Expertise. If you use both, then you take Versatile Expertise. Actually, for the current implementation, you should take Versatile Expertise in all cases.  Since every weapon group is listed as a possible implement, a pure weapon user can select one weapon group as his "weapon" and another weapon group as his "implement".  Regardless of which group is picked in which order, you get the bonuses to all weapon or implement attacks that use those weapons.  Thus, for example, a swordmage can select heavy blade and light blade as his Versatile Expertise options in either order and get expertise bonuses with any weapon he might conceivably want to use for his swordmage powers.
#17 wohkith Apr 19, 2010 20:38:50	one thing tho if you pick a weapon from there and then take weapon focus in the same weapon you can't choose weapon master in the builder.
#18 warrl Apr 21, 2010 4:11:28	Here is a question I have about the feat though:  Has anyone ever built a character who has any reason to take the Versatile Expertise feat a second time? Yep. Or, yep if it were not for Weapon Master. Also Weapon Focus at least twice, possibly as many as four times. If it were not for Weapon Master. Currently using a bow, light blades (in pairs), and unarmed strike. Once I get Weapon Master, I may swap one of the light blades for a heavy blade. For a single feat you can now gain expertise for two weapon groups.  That makes the Weapon Master feat far more expensive in comparison. Not really - not once you include Weapon Focus anyway. For pure weapons, Weapon Master costs nothing extra at two weapon groups and saves feats after that. For weapliments, Weapon Master costs nothing extra at three weapon groups and saves feats after that.
#19 warrl Apr 21, 2010 4:12:27	Here is a question I have about the feat though:  Has anyone ever built a character who has any reason to take the Versatile Expertise feat a second time? Yep. Or, yep if it were not for Weapon Master. Also Weapon Focus at least twice, possibly as many as four times. If it were not for Weapon Master. Currently using a bow, light blades (in pairs), and unarmed strike. Once I get Weapon Master, I may swap one of the light blades for a heavy blade. For a single feat you can now gain expertise for two weapon groups.  That makes the Weapon Master feat far more expensive in comparison. Not really - not once you include Weapon Focus anyway. For pure weapons, Weapon Master costs nothing extra at two weapon groups and saves feats after that. For weapliments, Weapon Master costs nothing extra at three weapon groups and saves feats after that.
#20 salla Apr 22, 2010 22:45:17	I think Im missing something. When I select the Versatile Expertise feat, I dont see the option to select what weapon/implement to use it with as the feat bonus isnt figured into my attack bonus'. Is it not there or am I missing it. Edit - So you only get the benefit if you use a weapon and a an implement, but not just for a weapon?  If you just use a weapon, then you take Weapon Expertise. If you just use an implement, then you take Implement Expertise. If you use both, then you take Versatile Expertise. Actually, for the current implementation, you should take Versatile Expertise in all cases.  Since every weapon group is listed as a possible implement, a pure weapon user can select one weapon group as his "weapon" and another weapon group as his "implement".  Regardless of which group is picked in which order, you get the bonuses to all weapon or implement attacks that use those weapons.  Thus, for example, a swordmage can select heavy blade and light blade as his Versatile Expertise options in either order and get expertise bonuses with any weapon he might conceivably want to use for his swordmage powers. Yeah, but what if you just use one weapon or implement exclusively?
#21 Ravenmancer Apr 23, 2010 20:43:32	Yeah, but what if you just use one weapon or implement exclusively? Then you get free expertise in something that'll probably hardly ever come up.
#22 salla Apr 23, 2010 20:45:06	Yeah, but what if you just use one weapon or implement exclusively? Then you get free expertise in something that'll probably hardly ever come up. Yeah, basically ... seems like a pain somehow, though.
#23 Undrhil Apr 23, 2010 23:20:03	If you use one weapon or implement exclusively, then just take weapon expertise or implement expertise.  Nothing's stopping you. I wish they would have at least said something about it in the release notes for the update.  It came as a complete surprise for most of the guys I game with.