I have seen a multitude of comments referring to who will/won't be renewing/cancelling their DDI subscriptions, and under what condition(s). This is for you. If you haven't given D&D such an ultimatum, feel free to read it but please remember that I am not talking about you.
The cost of a DDI subscription, annually: $70, assuming a full year's subscription at a time.
What this gets you: (Granted, these features are in a constant state of adjustment. All that means is that the designers are human.)
Complete printable monster compendium, only roughly a month out of date (and not everyone buys their books the day they come out anyway)
Dungeon Magazine- even more DM options and ideas
Dragon Magazine- even more PC options and ideas
Character Builder- automatically calculates everything for you and prints it neatly on printable character sheets. Includes all content.
What these features would cost without DDI:
Monster Compendium- Let's assume that all monsters were presented in a MM book format. The three 4E MMs have an estimated total of 1050 monsters, and a combined cost of $105.00. That's 10 cents a monster, roughly. In order to get all 3700+ monsters currently, you would need 10 1/2 MMs, or $370. These monsters were released within the last 4 years. A DDI subscription for the same period is $280 (70 x 4). With the monster Compendium alone (not even counting monster customization and creation features), you still come out ahead $22.50 a year (370-280=90, 90/4=22.5)
Both magazines: print periodicals are suffering. They need to charge high prices for shipping, even if only half sell. A specialty magazine like Dungeon or Dragon is in even worse danger due to low exposure. If magazines in every grocery store are needing to cut corners, what would it be like for the D&D magazines? If DDI weren't there, chances are there would be no magazines at all at this point. Content lost: invaluable. (And don't bother replying about them being able to publish books for the material. The point of the magazines was to contain stuff too specialized or less-than-mainstream for books, and the Magazine Annual books tanked on the shelf. Point proven- without DDI- no magazines, and that has nothing to do with anything WotC or D&D is capable of changing. It's just how the industry is right now.)
Character Builder- Thanks to this feature, suddenly no need for things like the Power series or even the "Heroes of" series. Okay, so you have to wait a month to get the stuff, but it's even more worth the price than the MMs, since there are way more than 10 1/2 player-oriented books, even accounting for repeat content.
Long story short: With DDI, you get more than double, possibly triple, what you pay for- MINIMUM.
You ARE paying for completeness of options, even options that wouldn't exist without it.
You ARE paying for a program to calculate things for you automatically, saving you hours of tedium over the course of time.
You are NOT paying for promptness. The exchange is that while you pay less, you get it later. It's like express shipping over free shipping. Besides, the one-month delay gives them time to include any errata/consistency fixes/typo corrections that the people who looked at it a month ago found.
And if all this isn't enough for you, you pampering, whining, lazy gamers (you know who you are), then shut up and go away. I am tired of listening to you, and I hope D&D never listens to you. D&D was a great game long before online features were a realistic possibility, and people had fun, even with pen and paper. If D&D does end- and I don't think it will anytime soon- it won't be because of WotC, or D&D, or Essentials, or 4E, or the Character Builder, or the Monster Builder, or anything else. It won't be because of any of that- it'll be because of players and DMs like you.
People like you make me almost ashamed to call myself a gamer.
I have seen a multitude of comments referring to who will/won't be renewing/cancelling their DDI subscriptions, and under what condition(s). This is for you. If you haven't given D&D such an ultimatum, feel free to read it but please remember that I am not talking about you.
The cost of a DDI subscription, annually: $70, assuming a full year's subscription at a time.
What this gets you: (Granted, these features are in a constant state of adjustment. All that means is that the designers are human.)
Complete printable monster compendium, only roughly a month out of date (and not everyone buys their books the day they come out anyway)
Dungeon Magazine- even more DM options and ideas
Dragon Magazine- even more PC options and ideas
Character Builder- automatically calculates everything for you and prints it neatly on printable character sheets. Includes all content.
What these features would cost without DDI:
Monster Compendium- Let's assume that all monsters were presented in a MM book format. The three 4E MMs have an estimated total of 1050 monsters, and a combined cost of $105.00. That's 10 cents a monster, roughly. In order to get all 3700+ monsters currently, you would need 10 1/2 MMs, or $370. These monsters were released within the last 4 years. A DDI subscription for the same period is $280 (70 x 4). With the monster Compendium alone (not even counting monster customization and creation features), you still come out ahead $22.50 a year (370-280=90, 90/4=22.5)
Both magazines: print periodicals are suffering. They need to charge high prices for shipping, even if only half sell. A specialty magazine like Dungeon or Dragon is in even worse danger due to low exposure. If magazines in every grocery store are needing to cut corners, what would it be like for the D&D magazines? If DDI weren't there, chances are there would be no magazines at all at this point. Content lost: invaluable. (And don't bother replying about them being able to publish books for the material. The point of the magazines was to contain stuff too specialized or less-than-mainstream for books, and the Magazine Annual books tanked on the shelf. Point proven- without DDI- no magazines, and that has nothing to do with anything WotC or D&D is capable of changing. It's just how the industry is right now.)
Character Builder- Thanks to this feature, suddenly no need for things like the Power series or even the "Heroes of" series. Okay, so you have to wait a month to get the stuff, but it's even more worth the price than the MMs, since there are way more than 10 1/2 player-oriented books, even accounting for repeat content.
Long story short: With DDI, you get more than double, possibly triple, what you pay for- MINIMUM.
You ARE paying for completeness of options, even options that wouldn't exist without it.
You ARE paying for a program to calculate things for you automatically, saving you hours of tedium over the course of time.
You are NOT paying for promptness. The exchange is that while you pay less, you get it later. It's like express shipping over free shipping. Besides, the one-month delay gives them time to include any errata/consistency fixes/typo corrections that the people who looked at it a month ago found.
And if all this isn't enough for you, you pampering, whining, lazy gamers (you know who you are), then shut up and go away. I am tired of listening to you, and I hope D&D never listens to you. D&D was a great game long before online features were a realistic possibility, and people had fun, even with pen and paper. If D&D does end- and I don't think it will anytime soon- it won't be because of WotC, or D&D, or Essentials, or 4E, or the Character Builder, or the Monster Builder, or anything else. It won't be because of any of that- it'll be because of players and DMs like you.
People like you make me almost ashamed to call myself a gamer.
The only point worth taking from this rant, is that the death or life of D&D depends on customers paying for the books and services. I really hope that WotC pays attention to that fact.
You should really step back and realize that you're acting just like those of us who are saddened by the situation. They published material (and still sell said materials) with false advertising for years. People are upset and definitely deserve to be able to vent about it to Wizards.
vt forever
What the D&DI use to get you.
Regularly 120+ pages of content for Dragon and Dungeon magazines. With a few exceptions delivered on time.
A Character Builder that allowed for houserules, custom items, editable character sheet that actual displaying the information you wanted. Was up todate and worked offline and with other 3rd party tools.
A Monster Builder that was up to date and actually built monsters, and worked offline and with other 3rd party tools.
A Compendium.
What it gets you now.
60+ pages of content for Dragon and Dungeon (if you are lucky), which is rarely delivered on time.
An Online Character Builder that only supports official D&D rules, no houserules and until recently didn't even support WotC official otional rules.
An Online Monster Builder that doesn't build monsters, doesn't support 3rd party tools, you can't even copy or export your work to Word!
An offline Monster Builder that will probably disappear soon but was broken when they started working on the online tools and hasn't been updated in ages.
A Compendium.
So they have halved the content of the magazines and made the tools less useful than they use to be, yet we should be happy?
Sure the compendium is great (and probably worth the subscription on its own, although admittedly you get the same sort of thing free with Pathfinder), but really we should be happy that they have made everything else worse?
Also while the compendium does include all that data, so it looks like it is worth a lot of money it really isn't to most people. Most people wouldn't buy all those books, they would buy want interests them and pick and choose, if they did they probably wouldn't be able to cope with the shear volume of information without something like the Compendium. The Compendium exists because it has to for such a complex game, you could easily play and enjoy a much simpler roleplaying game without it and get the same amount of enjoyment of a four or six hour game session.
That's really what you are paying for those four to six hour games sessions and the enjoyment you get from adventure planning or character design. You aren't even going to use all that data in the compendium only a tiny chunk of it so the size of it isn't a true reflection of it's value.
its a great deal, but im glad people bitch maybe the price will stay insanely low forever
I like the idea of digital D&D but it seems people are getting so wrapped up in it that the game is suffering.
You could buy the three core books and just roll with that, designing monsters, cities, characters even new classes with your imagination being the only limit.
I can understand that people might not have the time to manually design things and want all the shortcuts they can get to make things easier, but I feel the game plays better when you take the time and thought to work it out yourself instead of clicking a "proceed to step two" button.
If you don't have the time to invest in making your game world better and all you seek is faster and easier solutions then maybe you should spend what time you do have playing something desinged to be faster and easier such as video games.
When I was deplooyed to Iraq I had a lot of time on my hands and as the DM I had the most fun with nothing but my three core books, a pad of paper and some graphing paper.
You are right the price is great, but it doesn't really help if it no longer does what I need it to do. It no longer supports my home game.
The Character Builder doesn't support my house rules and the Monster Builder either doesn't work or doesn't work and doesn't export.
The VT I couldn't care less about, since I have a home game to run/play in, but even if I didn't I've been in the beta and there are better free VT on the market. I will say one thing though the Campaign Manager lobby type thing is it's main selling point. If I didn't have a home game then yes I can see the value in it... when it arrives.
I find the initial rant amusing. Are you telling me that you actually feel insulted and angry cause people doesn´t want to pay for the current content of DDI? Really?
For instance, as I mentioned in another thread - it doesn't matter how good the content is in any of these DDI products; if the delivery doesn't meet my expectations the entire product is worthless. Likewise, if they delivered laughable ****, on time every time, the product would be worthless. Both pieces have to be right, or my personal perception of value is pretty much zero.
And if all this isn't enough for you, you pampering, whining, lazy gamers (you know who you are), then shut up and go away. I am tired of listening to you, and I hope D&D never listens to you. D&D was a great game long before online features were a realistic possibility, and people had fun, even with pen and paper. If D&D does end- and I don't think it will anytime soon- it won't be because of WotC, or D&D, or Essentials, or 4E, or the Character Builder, or the Monster Builder, or anything else. It won't be because of any of that- it'll be because of players and DMs like you.
People like you make me almost ashamed to call myself a gamer.
Tell me, Mr. Hardcore PnPer. Why did you not go door to door and let us know of all of this? How is it that you posted this on an internet message board instead of writing us all individual letters and sending it to us by snail mail? Welcome to technology and the digital age. It's not our fault that DDI can't keep up with it, even though that they keep promising it will.
By the way, many of us old school D&D players, that PnP'd since 1979, are all grown up now with jobs, families, responsibilities. The only way that we can afford to even play your precious game is with digital aid to help make everything more efficient to prepare for.
Blah blah, D&D is great value if you are an idiot, blah blah blah....
And if all this isn't enough for you, you pampering, whining, lazy gamers (you know who you are), then shut up and go away. I am tired of listening to you, and I hope D&D never listens to you. D&D was a great game long before online features were a realistic possibility, and people had fun, even with pen and paper. If D&D does end- and I don't think it will anytime soon- it won't be because of WotC, or D&D, or Essentials, or 4E, or the Character Builder, or the Monster Builder, or anything else. It won't be because of any of that- it'll be because of players and DMs like you.
People like you make me almost ashamed to call myself a gamer.
Right back at you.
People like you make me almost ashamed to call myself a gamer.
As someone who has had a DDI subscription from day one, and still believes it is well worth the price...
...this sort of antagonistic, absolutist post does no one any good, and isn't exactly bringing a good name to 'gamers' either.
Whether a DDI subscription is worth the price is 100% an individual choice. Chucking out nonsensical numbers like this, and saying that anyone who disagrees is "pampered, whining, and lazy" is exactly as toxic and unhealthy for the community as those who post and claim that WotC is literally stealing from them, and anyone who disagrees is a WotC plant.
Either extreme view is beyond absurd, and just as worthy of disdain and dismissal.
The people you are addressing are customers. That doesn't mean, in and of itself, that WotC needs to live up to their expectations. I've seen both reasonable and unreasonable complaints from a whole host of people.
But what it does mean, is that if they aren't satisfied with the service, they can choose to cancel their subscription. They can absolutely declare that it isn't worth the cost, to them, and make a decision to no longer be a subscriber, or to state what it would take for them to find the service worthwhile to remain, or become, a subscriber.
That's their call to make.
Not yours.
People like you make me almost ashamed to call myself a gamer.
As someone who has had a DDI subscription from day one, and still believes it is well worth the price...
...this sort of antagonistic, absolutist post does no one any good, and isn't exactly bringing a good name to 'gamers' either.
Whether a DDI subscription is worth the price is 100% an individual choice. Chucking out nonsensical numbers like this, and saying that anyone who disagrees is "pampered, whining, and lazy" is exactly as toxic and unhealthy for the community as those who post and claim that WotC is literally stealing from them, and anyone who disagrees is a WotC plant.
Either extreme view is beyond absurd, and just as worthy of disdain and dismissal.
The people you are addressing are customers. That doesn't mean, in and of itself, that WotC needs to live up to their expectations. I've seen both reasonable and unreasonable complaints from a whole host of people.
But what it does mean, is that if they aren't satisfied with the service, they can choose to cancel their subscription. They can absolutely declare that it isn't worth the cost, to them, and make a decision to no longer be a subscriber, or to state what it would take for them to find the service worthwhile to remain, or become, a subscriber.
That's their call to make.
Not yours.
People like you make me almost ashamed to call myself a gamer.
As someone who has had a DDI subscription from day one, and still believes it is well worth the price...
...this sort of antagonistic, absolutist post does no one any good, and isn't exactly bringing a good name to 'gamers' either.
Whether a DDI subscription is worth the price is 100% an individual choice. Chucking out nonsensical numbers like this, and saying that anyone who disagrees is "pampered, whining, and lazy" is exactly as toxic and unhealthy for the community as those who post and claim that WotC is literally stealing from them, and anyone who disagrees is a WotC plant.
Either extreme view is beyond absurd, and just as worthy of disdain and dismissal.
The people you are addressing are customers. That doesn't mean, in and of itself, that WotC needs to live up to their expectations. I've seen both reasonable and unreasonable complaints from a whole host of people.
But what it does mean, is that if they aren't satisfied with the service, they can choose to cancel their subscription. They can absolutely declare that it isn't worth the cost, to them, and make a decision to no longer be a subscriber, or to state what it would take for them to find the service worthwhile to remain, or become, a subscriber.
That's their call to make.
Not yours.
The OP is probably just as tired as a lot of us are of seeing posts in just about every thread, hijacking legitimate discussions just to complain about how they aren't getting the X words per month they were 'promised' by WotC and will be cancelling, or have already cancelled, their subscription because of that lack. I've tossed around the idea of having a compilation thread where I grab the URLs of all the threads where this happens, or the ones created just to whine about how D&D I is failing, and will be shutting down because of their boycott, just so that people can know which threads not to bother with.
While I don't disagree that many of them have legitimate complaints.... I'm pretty sure we got the point three months ago when they were first complaining. I want to say that yes, that horse is indeed dead. Please stop beating it at some point.
As was said earlier in this thread - it is indeed 100% up to personal preference if the subscription is worth it or not. Heck, I've been maintaining my subscription more or less for just the online CB and compendium. There's only been one CB omission, or delay, that has impacted me - last week we rolled up characters for a Dark Sun game I'll be starting, and one of my players wanted to do a Sandsoul Genasi from Dragon. However, we did have the article, and he did have a PnP character sheet.
I would love it if we got more with the D&D insider subscription - but I still think it's worth it to keep my sub. Especially if it gives me a crack at the Virtual Table, which would help my in-person game keep going through attendance issues, and the chronic medical conditions of one of my players. I was in the VT beta and saw it had great potential. All of the other 'better' VTs people talk about, I've tried to use, but none of them were intuitive, or as easy as WotC's.
I both agree and disagree that the online CB and MB are not worth their price due to fewer features than their downloadable counterparts. Yes, for people with busy lives, it saves time without which they might not be able to prepare enough to play D&D as much as they like. I'm in a similar boat, and I understand- if the workarounds for the features they haven't put online yet takes as long as doing it by hand, save the money. What I disagree with is the sentiment that I referred to in my OP that, since the CB &/or MB did not come online with all of the features their downloadable counterparts have, D&D must not plan to eventually provide them, and so subcriptions aren't worth it. I have seen numerous posts to that effect, and my OP was partially in response to that. To me, waiting a few months for the features to be added is worth it, but as I said, I understand that others may not feel that way.
As for my last rant-ish paragraph, I should probably apologize. I could have expressed myself a bit more tactfully there. I really do try not to become a troll in response to trolls. I am glad, though, that for the most part, this thread is pretty civil- I read a lot of really thought-provoking counterpoints. Yay for respectful disagreement!
For me my DDi died when the donloadable apps did. I don't have an internet connection at my play venue. I'd reinstate if WotC recognised the needs of the offline gamer. Like many others I felt a drop in the value of the DDI subscription recently but I usually don't post about it with emotion running so high on the community.
I hope WotC listen to the constructive parts of players frustrations and make their strategy clear. Don't overpromise and underdeliver. And if you do accidentally feed the trolls, do what Questor has just done and man up about it to your community - we'll support you for it
EDIT: One other point. WotC_Trevor has been trying to give us all an insight into what's going on behind the scenes. My honest opinion is that we stay positive and let Wizards iron out the recent kinks in their process before we criticise too heavily. Constructive and honest feedback WotC can work with. Froth and bluster will just make us look like fools, I think.
You can say that the magazines are worth $10 each, but if I am using only 1 article out of any given magazine(and lately, it hasn't been that much) then it only has value to me at a fraction of that. Given 6-8 articles a month, then that magazine has about $1.43 of value to me, assuming I truly beleive that if all articles were used, it would be worth $10 in the first place.
In addition, you are trying to assign an absolute value to the service based on what it would cost to buy the items individually. this is a flawed concept.
First, because no way currently exists to get these items individually.
Second, because it is a service, which will always inherently have less value than a "hard" product--if you stop paying, you lose access.
Third, because you assume that the price the company charges a price, that price=value of the item. This is demonstrably not true, and the proof is in the nature of money and capitalism itself. if it were true, there would never be an inflation, prices would always stay the same, and you would be paid $.12 for a day of work. Price is based on what the company thinks will be under but close to the value the customer assigns to it--if it were over, no-one would buy it, if it were at that point, to few people would buy it to make a profit, and if it were too low, everyone would buy it and the company would go broke.
Finally, the language you used, and the intent of the thread conveyed by title, writing, and tone was "You stupid people, stop feeling like you are losing value! You are wrong and stupid, so shut up!"
If you want to say raw volume is worth $ regardless of utility, I can write a quick utility that would generate BILLIONS of distinct monsters that fit perfectly into the D&D guidelines. (30 levels * dozens of types * thousands of abilities (even if we group them to make sure they create a sense of flow) * Scores of stats that can be minorly tweaked (Defenses, speed, skills, ability scores, resistances, immunities, vulnerabilities, movement, etc...) * Multiple roles * Multiple Secondary Roles, etc...) If you'll pay $70 for a few thousand monsters, what would that type of volume get me?
What would an Insider subscription give me to use that I do not currently have?
I have a CB and a MB that work fine. I have access to a free VTT. I also have access to all the Dragon and Dungeon articles written before I quit. I also find the old CB and MB more useful. The new CB is close to the old CB in utility, but the slow speed, the need for internet access, etc... really limit the utility.
As for new articles: When I look up all the races and classes that are present in my PCs (in games I play) or in the PCs of the players in games I run, I find a grand total of 0 (ZERO) articles that (by their title) seem like they'd be of use to those PCs. There are a few articles I could have used as a DM, maybe, (Jubilex, I heart thee), but I found I read a lot more articles that I thought I could use as a DM than I actually used when I was a subscriber.
So far, I feel like I saved a half year of subscription cost and missed nothing substantial.
right but its only the cost of a subway sandwich a month, and the vt is about to be released
I, personally, can't wait for them to release the pricing for the VT. Or the pricing for the micro-transactions required to unlock the content.
To the OP: for me, it's not about the money. I lose $70 a year on coupons I forget to bring to the grocery store. For me, it's about not telling a company it's okay to lie to me, to promise what they know they can't dliver and to deny they can deliver what they can. Bonus: I can still enjoy all the same content a subscriber does (hell, I enjoy better content than subscribers do).
I have seen a multitude of comments referring to who will/won't be renewing/cancelling their DDI subscriptions, and under what condition(s). This is for you. If you haven't given D&D such an ultimatum, feel free to read it but please remember that I am not talking about you.
People like you make me almost ashamed to call myself a gamer.
Pfft. DDI's only real selling point was the crunch in Dragon Mag, and I guess the compendium and CB.
WOTC completely fell down on the job at making Dragon articles with crunch in them, and they axed the character builder, so I canceled my DDI account months ago... and haven't missed it yet.
$70 for the compendium ain't worth it, sorry. As with Damon Tor, the money issue isn't it. I spent $60 on new video games all the time. It's solely a value/cost comparison - I'm not getting $70 worth of value from having access to an online glossary.
Berating those that don't pay on the forums because you feel you're getting value for your money, and so should they... that's just as trollish as people berating paying customers for buying a DDI sub in the first place.
You wouldn't want to troll, would you?
What these features would cost without DDI:
Monster Compendium- Let's assume that all monsters were presented in a MM book format. The three 4E MMs have...
I buy every single product that I like. It's good to know that I can use the "classic" 4e classes when I have bought only the "Heroes of..." books, but I rarely use something that I don't own as a physical product. The reason is that, if tomorrow I can't pay for DDI, or 5e comes out, or I don't have an internet connection for some reason, I will still be able to create my characters, use the monster statistics etc...
So, DDI helps you save some time, gives you more options, but in the end I still buy the books that I like and use only mostly them...
See, value is very subjective.
I was paying for the magazines, not out of gaming value (because there are a ton of D&D blogs out there which provide higher quality content, more frequently, and on time), but out of nostalgia. But nowadays they're mostly advertisements for D&D products, shoddy DM advice, and they aren't compiled into magazines so I get none of the nostalgia.
I was paying for the character builder. I still have my offline character builder. Maybe I'll consider resubscribing if Wizards ever gets around to matching the quality of their old builder with their new one.
...yeah, that's pretty much all I was paying for. Two things which have been removed. I might reconsider it if they ever publish (not Beta, but PUBLISH) a virtual tabletop worth anything. Or recompile the magazines. Or make the character builder worth anything.
Also, that was a very aggressive post, you need to learn the difference between calming tensions and starting arguments. Just because you're on the side of the argument that is rarely caught starting the flame wars, doesn't give you the right to create a flamebait post like that.
right but its only the cost of a subway sandwich a month, and the vt is about to be released
its a great deal, but im glad people bitch maybe the price will stay insanely low forever
I don't know where you live but over here a sub-way sandwich costs less than $10.00... If you'll notice we are not complaining about the price, we are complaining by the lowering of content...
For me, I don't use all the books, so I don't get the value of every book. And if I need the books cheaper, there is Amazon or used book stores for that. I don't have to keep paying to use them month after month. Not to mention that I can keep the books. WotC could easily cut off all 4e content as soon as 5e comes out. Now hopefully 5e is good enough that I want to make the switch, but if it isn't I want my previous material available.
The character builder is ok for getting a rough idea of a character, particularly if you are creating one at a higher level, but it doesn't support 3pp stuff or even houserules so it is of very limited use to me.
I use Masterplan for my monsters so I don't need the monster builder. Now I was going to get a DDI subscription to supplement Masterplan, but WotC cut that off with a C&D so no thanks.
The VT is unnecessary. I already use Maptool for my online needs. Unless this can do something truly truly impressive I have no need to switch.
I never had much interest in the magazines, print or online versions.
And one of the big kickers for me, you have to be online to access DDI material. That's great for most people, but if I'm overseas for a year and don't have personal internet access then that's not terribly useful to me.
So no, DDI is not universally useful to everyone and not everyone who complains is just whining over nothing. If WotC looked at some of this "whining" coming from former and potential customers, they might actually find some ways to improve their product.
right but its only the cost of a subway sandwich a month, and the vt is about to be released
its a great deal, but im glad people bitch maybe the price will stay insanely low forever
I don't know where you live but over here a sub-way sandwich costs less than $10.00... If you'll notice we are not complaining about the price, we are complaining by the lowering of content...
What kind of sandwich? I know my typical footlongs + chips/drink come out to $9 and change. But I go for low-end accessories on my sandwich, he might get like, roast chicken or tuna melt or something.
bmt on italian herb and cheese = 6 bucks just like monthly subscription
Plus double meat, double cheese and bacon.
$10.
'gutbunny'
I have a wife and 2 daughters that insist on stealing the meat and fillings off of my sandwich. I have to order double so that I don't end up with a veggie sub.
Around here they have 5$ footlongs. The sweet onion teryaki chicken I like is $6.50 and the Chipolte Steak is $9...
I agree that value for money is to a degree quite subjective. If you hope for (arbitrary numbers to show the point) $300 of content for a $150 price tag, and you only get $200 worth, I understand the feeling of disappointment. But my post (and I apologize for not making this clear) was more aimed at those who felt that this made the subscription "not" worthwhile as opposed to "less" worthwhile. As someone who is both a plater and a DM, I do know that I get twice the value for my money- but even the content for just one of the two saves the player money, although I grant that it is not as much.
The real problem with this logic is twofold:
1) A gamer isn't guaranteed to want all the content in the Compendium/CB. If they only use player content, for example, all those DM books they are effectively paying for aren't of any use to them - especially since the only useful parts of those books (the flavor and background info) isn't part of DDI. To that end, the actual worth of the content they use might be higher in book form vs DDI form.
2) There is also a fundamental difference between a subscription and a purchase. $300 spent on books could buy you those books forever, while $150 spent on DDI buys you that content for only a year or two. Or, to look at it on a scale closer to many gamers - say a gamer only has $40 bucks to spend on D&D content each year. He could buy half a year of DDI, and have a ton of DDI content for six months... and then nothing for the rest of the year. Or he could spend that money and get 2-3 D&D books via Amazon or wherever - and have those books for that year and beyond.
You can't just compare the two amounts of money in isolation. There are absolutely plenty of reasons why, for many gamers, DDI would not be worth their money. No matter how desirable you find it, that isn't a guarantee for everyone else, nor does everyone else have the same resources to compare such content in isolation.
As for my last rant-ish paragraph, I should probably apologize. I could have expressed myself a bit more tactfully there. I really do try not to become a troll in response to trolls. I am glad, though, that for the most part, this thread is pretty civil- I read a lot of really thought-provoking counterpoints. Yay for respectful disagreement!
Props, though, for being willing to step back, recognize an overheated statement, and apologize reasonably. That is what the forums need more of!
I don't know what Dieffenbachj is talking about. Jalapeños make everything better. They taste really good with fish sticks and maple syrup.
I love the respect we're giving to this OP.
But I love Jalapeños, I'm just saying not everyone does, especially not when they come as a surprise topping to a stolen piece of meat :P
I don't know what Dieffenbachj is talking about. Jalapeños make everything better. They taste really good with fish sticks and maple syrup.
Put them in your Mac and Cheese. Heaven.
I don't know what Dieffenbachj is talking about. Jalapeños make everything better. They taste really good with fish sticks and maple syrup.
Put them in your Mac and Cheese. Heaven.
You, sir, have just blown my mind.
I don't know what Dieffenbachj is talking about. Jalapeños make everything better. They taste really good with fish sticks and maple syrup.
Put them in your Mac and Cheese. Heaven.
You, sir, have just blown my mind.
Glad to oblige.
Here's another one for you...Get some regular cream cheese. Dice a bunch of jalepenos, preferrably jarred. Mix the jalepenos, cream cheese, and some juice from the jar to help soften up the cream cheese a bit (not too much to make it watery). The more jalepenos, the spicier. Spread on your favorite cracker.
It's simple, yet unbelievably delicious. Even people that hate jalepenos love this dip, since the cream cheese is a base and helps neutralize the acidity of the jalepenos. But you still get all of the bite.
FYI, another one of my staples is Frank's Hot Sauce. This, mixed with Campbell's Chicken Dumpling soup or the Gumbo soup (actually just about any soup) is amazing.
I don't know what Dieffenbachj is talking about. Jalapeños make everything better. They taste really good with fish sticks and maple syrup.
Put them in your Mac and Cheese. Heaven.
You, sir, have just blown my mind.
Glad to oblige.
Get some regular cream cheese. Dice a bunch of jalepenos, preferrably jarred. Mix the jalepenos, cream cheese, and some juice from the jar to help soften up the cream cheese a bit (not too much to make it watery). The more jalepenos, the spicier. Spread on your favorite cracker.
It's simple, yet unbelievably delicious. Even people that hate jalepenos love this dip, since the cream cheese is a base and helps neutralize the acidity of the jalepenos. But you still get all of the bite.
I already do the spread thing, but I add sausage or chicken with frank's sauce in, and then use tortilla chips in it(crackers break too easy)
...to recipe-swapping...
... has literally brought tears to my eyes, and not just from thinking about jalapenos. Thanks, you guys!
I don't know what Dieffenbachj is talking about. Jalapeños make everything better. They taste really good with fish sticks and maple syrup.
Put them in your Mac and Cheese. Heaven.
You, sir, have just blown my mind.
Glad to oblige.
Get some regular cream cheese. Dice a bunch of jalepenos, preferrably jarred. Mix the jalepenos, cream cheese, and some juice from the jar to help soften up the cream cheese a bit (not too much to make it watery). The more jalepenos, the spicier. Spread on your favorite cracker.
It's simple, yet unbelievably delicious. Even people that hate jalepenos love this dip, since the cream cheese is a base and helps neutralize the acidity of the jalepenos. But you still get all of the bite.
FYI, another one of my staples is Frank's Hot Sauce. This, mixed with Campbell's Chicken Dumpling soup or the Gumbo soup (actually just about any soup) is amazing.
Thanks a lot, I'm at a bus stop right now and it'll be about an hour and 15 minutes before I get near any food. Suddenly so hungry...
I love jalepenos, but whenever I eat them I get bad acid reflux and I even feel like I'm having a panic attack...
So it's like posting on the forums :D
Since there's a topic and it probably should be answered sometimes, no not really worth it for me.
Compendium is meh. I'd have to have it at my fingers in order to see if its something I like. Plus, I like page numbers. They're almost essential when you make character sheets by hand/by keyboard.
Character Builder/Monster Builder both don't pique my interests, and no, this wasn't an opinion that magically changed during some roid rage when they switched to online; I just like making characters by hand.
VT: This is tough, but I can do without unless if I knew for sure that it was a high quality product. It would have to be as good and as reliable as say, Runescape or something (to give an online game with reliable servers and maintenance and upgrades).
Dragon Magazine: Probably the most important. It needs to be really good and it needs to have respectable design goals.
Dungeon Magazine: I've heard good things, I'm just not an adventures type of guy.