Foundry issues - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Foundry issues

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
darakers
Nov 11, 2010 10:55:38 I just ran into a problem with the group I'm runniing through this. They also have a problem with motivation for going into the tower, but the real problem is one of them died during the fight with Modra. So now they're not really 100% motivated to go into the tower (though they are starting to get the "This is bigger and more of a threat to our homelands that we thought) but now have a dead comrade to deal with. So they're going to leave and try and get him brought back (or at the very least to regroup).

I would imagine that if they did this then the foundry is going to find itself heavily fortified (as they just lost all their guards and someone clearly "got away" as everyone is dead). So does anyone have a suggestion on how I can allow them to leave, take care of business for a day or so, and still reasonably get them back into the tower?
#2
slayn777
Nov 11, 2010 11:46:56 player motivation is definite problem in this module. The only way I motivated them to go in at all was by having them hear rumors about how Sarshan is uber rich from his mercenary days and his tower is probably decked out with magical awesome the likes of which they've never seen. And by the end they were still saying things like, "Why the hell are we here again?"

I think the worst thing to do is to force them to go through the tower if that isn't what they want to do. I would let the players decide. If they:

1. Go into the tower? Great, proceed as planned.
2. Don't go into the tower, but stick around Umbraforge? I would close the tower to them (it becomes heavily fortified and can't be entered unless they come up with a very clever plan) and create skill challenges to avoid being caught as Sarshan's guards begin searching the city for who attack his foundry.
3. The players leave Umbraforge entirely? Proceed to the next adventure, but perhaps later on introduce some kind of attack on Overlook. Perhaps an NPC they care about is killed because the players didn't attack Sarshan's tower when they had the chance.

I think the worst thing is to try to force them into the tower when they don't want to go.
#3
rachweded
Nov 11, 2010 12:04:39 bear in mind also the foundry will be destroyed shortly by the damage that modra did there before he was slain.
whether the pcs enter sarshans tower or not it will be gone in a few hours!

so if they go back to overlook and get their friend res'd or a replacement character or whatever then you play with it like this:

upon return they find most of the encampment empty but those who are left are aggressive and want a fight; many have travelled a long way and there is now no work for them.
also some of sarshan's guards may be left alive to search for those responsible, the pc's are likely to stand out

build an adventure around that, the tower is just a few fights after all.
#4
graht
Nov 11, 2010 16:10:40 I had Modra steal the gate key from the players after the went through the gate. I didn't roll the dice, just told them that they were dazed and confused from the experience and couldn't do anything as Modra casually took the key and then faded away. Their motivation for going to the Foundry was to get the key from Modra. Once in the Foundry I had Modra surrender instead of fighting to the death and he made a deal with the PCs that if they helped him kill Sarshan (they had no idea who Sarshan was at this point) that he would give them back the gate key (which he had hidden somewhere else). It wasn't to hard to paint a picture of Sarshan for the players in my group and they (grudgingly) agreed. Course, when all hell broke lose in the tower when the Foundry exploded (Modra didn't tell the PCs about the bombs he had set) there was quite a free for all. I had Modra grudgingly stick to his word and give gate key to the PCs even though Sarshan got away.
#5
tavman
Dec 29, 2010 15:17:11 Sorry for ressing an old post, but this is exactly where we stand at this moment. My plan is to have Leena deemphasize Modra and emphasize how bad Sarshan is and oh, btw, you can get into his tower via a secret door in the foundry. When they head there to jump Sarshan, they'll run into Modra and not be conflicted about stopping him from taking out the Foundry - they won't know why he was there in the first place.

I'm also chucking the skill challenge as written and I'm replacing it with a few well-directed RP encounters mixed in with the as-written combats. I hate generic SCs that seem like exercises in dice-rolling and this one is a prime example. Really, an Arcana check will get me a piece of info off the rumor table? How does that work, exactly?
#6
gargs454
Dec 31, 2010 7:20:34 Well my group lost 3 of 5 PCs to the wraiths under the Happy Beggar when they triggered both encounters at the same time. I let them see that Modra was there, triggered the wraiths and then left. One of the surviving PCs then retired his character and rolled a new one (and there was a third PC that was absent). So, I had Aerunn hire the new party to go through the gate and see where all these crates of weapons and such were coming from.

When the party got to Umbraforge they were plenty motivated to go after Modra and they decided they wanted to talk to the Boss Man too, so there wasn't much problem getting them to go into the tower. The only issue was I knew my party would hate it if they encountered Sarshan, but couldn't engage him (plus there was a decent chance that they'd accept his offer of employment), so I simply had him be away on business. One thing I did change though was I placed a room in the tower that had a magical control panel of sorts that kept the shadow rift/shadow magma in check. I then allowed the players to engage in a SC to disable the control over the rift, thereby making the destruction of the camp the direct result of the PCs actions. This at least felt a lot less railroady to me (particularly since the party found the room on the first level but wisely waited until after fighting Sarshan's Lt. before messing with the panel).

But all in all, Umbraforge is a horrible trainwreck/ride of an adventure, so motivating the party is always going to be a bit of an issue in this module I think.
#7
nyteskie
Jan 05, 2011 8:07:46
I have to admit, I think I cheated a bit. I recall that one of the rumors on the table was that Modra was a front for someone bigger, and the PCs automatically picked up on that when I dropped the hint. My problem was that they really had no motivation to go after Modra in the first place. When they found out his plan, they actually wanted to team up with him. Modra attacked anyway, and I had damage occur to the workings of the foundry in the melee. Guards came to investigate, and the PCs ducked into the secret tunnel to get away. They stumbled around in the tower long enough for what needed to happen, and then they fled. I probably could have made it a bit more interesting and maybe even kept Modra around, but that's how it shook out.
#8
tavman
Jan 08, 2011 21:31:46 Well, they almost managed to derail my grand plan. They got to the Transfer Portal encounter and decided it might be a good idea to use the warehouse portal to call the cops. As I had Modra murdering the witch in the next room and stealing her key so that he could make a dramatic escape when the PCs entered the room, this would throw me a bit of a curve. Like, how the hell am I going to get them to go through that portal if they never saw Modra go through? I mentioned they hear screaming coming from the next room and got up to get a drink. When I came back, they'd talked themselves out of going for help...whew!

When they finally got the Shadowfell, their first inclination was to go back right away. The wraiths had done a number on them and I think they were a bit rattled. Unfortunately for them, they failed to mention to me that they removed the key from The World side of the gate before they stepped through...The rogue says "I'm heading back. I go to the portal and activate it." "Oh, really? With what key?" "What do you mean, what key? The one we used to get here!" "Oh, you mean the one that's still sitting in the keyhole on the other side?" Heh heh...derail my plans, eh?
#9
graht
Jan 11, 2011 14:39:06 Nice
#10
JRedGiant1
Feb 18, 2011 9:21:15 My PC's were eager for a chance to take on Sarshan. I had dropped hints about Sarshan knowing more than they do about some of their backgrounds. Also, one of the PC's is a monk who comes from a monestary that had been razed by attaking humanoids. I simply dropped a few weapons of Sarshan's on the scene there and let him know he saw his master killed from afar by a shadar-kai. In other words, I had planned for it from a ways out.
#11
leozelig
Feb 28, 2011 23:19:12 I emphasized that Sarshan was an evil dude, so they were cool with trying to bump him off along the way. Just to be safe though (I read this post first), I had Modra disrupt the normal flow of lava through the foundry before the PCs arrived, so that the camp "flooded" with lava while they battled Modra, preventing them from leaving the way they came. I made it clear that the tower was higher ground, and by the way, that evil guy is in there. They got the message. ;)

But thanks for the post, it helped me.

Z
#12
SourceOfEvil
May 10, 2011 13:03:03 I ended up with a HEAVILY modified storyline.

When Modra went through the portal the party just held the area and called in the locals to close the portal. Their whole mindset was "Go through to Shadowfell at OUR level? Don't think so..."

It worked out because we were able to get in a lot of Overlook RP time and I eventually replaced the whole adventure with "Heathen" (a non-SoW adventure of the same level). I worked in some weapons running that was included in that adventure into being related to Sarshan's dealings, so when they got back to town they were very interested in Sarshan.

It also left Modra alive, so that I could re-open this link whenever I wanted.

THEN....I read the long run chasing Sarshan in BtMT and thought my players are never going to do that. I took the opportunity to bring the Umbraforge back into play. Now that they're 11th level they are ready to go after Sarshan on his home turf, so it's a simple matter of putting the portal to Umbraforge at the base of the Mottle Tower, and upping the levels of creatures from there, or moving other creatures from the BtMT adventure over.

Was a decent amount of re-working, but I think I'm ready for this weekend's jaunt into the Shadowfell. Also, te characters certainly don't feel railroaded. They have completely determined their path. AND at this point they're SO ready to crush Sarshan, since he'd been blamed for everything that has happened in Overlook since... :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 darakers Nov 11, 2010 10:55:38	I just ran into a problem with the group I'm runniing through this. They also have a problem with motivation for going into the tower, but the real problem is one of them died during the fight with Modra. So now they're not really 100% motivated to go into the tower (though they are starting to get the "This is bigger and more of a threat to our homelands that we thought) but now have a dead comrade to deal with. So they're going to leave and try and get him brought back (or at the very least to regroup). I would imagine that if they did this then the foundry is going to find itself heavily fortified (as they just lost all their guards and someone clearly "got away" as everyone is dead). So does anyone have a suggestion on how I can allow them to leave, take care of business for a day or so, and still reasonably get them back into the tower?
#2 slayn777 Nov 11, 2010 11:46:56	player motivation is definite problem in this module. The only way I motivated them to go in at all was by having them hear rumors about how Sarshan is uber rich from his mercenary days and his tower is probably decked out with magical awesome the likes of which they've never seen. And by the end they were still saying things like, "Why the hell are we here again?" I think the worst thing to do is to force them to go through the tower if that isn't what they want to do. I would let the players decide. If they: 1. Go into the tower? Great, proceed as planned. 2. Don't go into the tower, but stick around Umbraforge? I would close the tower to them (it becomes heavily fortified and can't be entered unless they come up with a very clever plan) and create skill challenges to avoid being caught as Sarshan's guards begin searching the city for who attack his foundry. 3. The players leave Umbraforge entirely? Proceed to the next adventure, but perhaps later on introduce some kind of attack on Overlook. Perhaps an NPC they care about is killed because the players didn't attack Sarshan's tower when they had the chance. I think the worst thing is to try to force them into the tower when they don't want to go.
#3 rachweded Nov 11, 2010 12:04:39	bear in mind also the foundry will be destroyed shortly by the damage that modra did there before he was slain. whether the pcs enter sarshans tower or not it will be gone in a few hours! so if they go back to overlook and get their friend res'd or a replacement character or whatever then you play with it like this: upon return they find most of the encampment empty but those who are left are aggressive and want a fight; many have travelled a long way and there is now no work for them. also some of sarshan's guards may be left alive to search for those responsible, the pc's are likely to stand out build an adventure around that, the tower is just a few fights after all.
#4 graht Nov 11, 2010 16:10:40	I had Modra steal the gate key from the players after the went through the gate. I didn't roll the dice, just told them that they were dazed and confused from the experience and couldn't do anything as Modra casually took the key and then faded away. Their motivation for going to the Foundry was to get the key from Modra. Once in the Foundry I had Modra surrender instead of fighting to the death and he made a deal with the PCs that if they helped him kill Sarshan (they had no idea who Sarshan was at this point) that he would give them back the gate key (which he had hidden somewhere else). It wasn't to hard to paint a picture of Sarshan for the players in my group and they (grudgingly) agreed. Course, when all hell broke lose in the tower when the Foundry exploded (Modra didn't tell the PCs about the bombs he had set) there was quite a free for all. I had Modra grudgingly stick to his word and give gate key to the PCs even though Sarshan got away.
#5 tavman Dec 29, 2010 15:17:11	Sorry for ressing an old post, but this is exactly where we stand at this moment. My plan is to have Leena deemphasize Modra and emphasize how bad Sarshan is and oh, btw, you can get into his tower via a secret door in the foundry. When they head there to jump Sarshan, they'll run into Modra and not be conflicted about stopping him from taking out the Foundry - they won't know why he was there in the first place. I'm also chucking the skill challenge as written and I'm replacing it with a few well-directed RP encounters mixed in with the as-written combats. I hate generic SCs that seem like exercises in dice-rolling and this one is a prime example. Really, an Arcana check will get me a piece of info off the rumor table? How does that work, exactly?
#6 gargs454 Dec 31, 2010 7:20:34	Well my group lost 3 of 5 PCs to the wraiths under the Happy Beggar when they triggered both encounters at the same time. I let them see that Modra was there, triggered the wraiths and then left. One of the surviving PCs then retired his character and rolled a new one (and there was a third PC that was absent). So, I had Aerunn hire the new party to go through the gate and see where all these crates of weapons and such were coming from. When the party got to Umbraforge they were plenty motivated to go after Modra and they decided they wanted to talk to the Boss Man too, so there wasn't much problem getting them to go into the tower. The only issue was I knew my party would hate it if they encountered Sarshan, but couldn't engage him (plus there was a decent chance that they'd accept his offer of employment), so I simply had him be away on business. One thing I did change though was I placed a room in the tower that had a magical control panel of sorts that kept the shadow rift/shadow magma in check. I then allowed the players to engage in a SC to disable the control over the rift, thereby making the destruction of the camp the direct result of the PCs actions. This at least felt a lot less railroady to me (particularly since the party found the room on the first level but wisely waited until after fighting Sarshan's Lt. before messing with the panel). But all in all, Umbraforge is a horrible trainwreck/ride of an adventure, so motivating the party is always going to be a bit of an issue in this module I think.
#7 nyteskie Jan 05, 2011 8:07:46	I have to admit, I think I cheated a bit. I recall that one of the rumors on the table was that Modra was a front for someone bigger, and the PCs automatically picked up on that when I dropped the hint. My problem was that they really had no motivation to go after Modra in the first place. When they found out his plan, they actually wanted to team up with him. Modra attacked anyway, and I had damage occur to the workings of the foundry in the melee. Guards came to investigate, and the PCs ducked into the secret tunnel to get away. They stumbled around in the tower long enough for what needed to happen, and then they fled. I probably could have made it a bit more interesting and maybe even kept Modra around, but that's how it shook out.
#8 tavman Jan 08, 2011 21:31:46	Well, they almost managed to derail my grand plan. They got to the Transfer Portal encounter and decided it might be a good idea to use the warehouse portal to call the cops. As I had Modra murdering the witch in the next room and stealing her key so that he could make a dramatic escape when the PCs entered the room, this would throw me a bit of a curve. Like, how the hell am I going to get them to go through that portal if they never saw Modra go through? I mentioned they hear screaming coming from the next room and got up to get a drink. When I came back, they'd talked themselves out of going for help...whew! When they finally got the Shadowfell, their first inclination was to go back right away. The wraiths had done a number on them and I think they were a bit rattled. Unfortunately for them, they failed to mention to me that they removed the key from The World side of the gate before they stepped through...The rogue says "I'm heading back. I go to the portal and activate it." "Oh, really? With what key?" "What do you mean, what key? The one we used to get here!" "Oh, you mean the one that's still sitting in the keyhole on the other side?" Heh heh...derail my plans, eh?
#9 graht Jan 11, 2011 14:39:06	Nice
#10 JRedGiant1 Feb 18, 2011 9:21:15	My PC's were eager for a chance to take on Sarshan. I had dropped hints about Sarshan knowing more than they do about some of their backgrounds. Also, one of the PC's is a monk who comes from a monestary that had been razed by attaking humanoids. I simply dropped a few weapons of Sarshan's on the scene there and let him know he saw his master killed from afar by a shadar-kai. In other words, I had planned for it from a ways out.
#11 leozelig Feb 28, 2011 23:19:12	I emphasized that Sarshan was an evil dude, so they were cool with trying to bump him off along the way. Just to be safe though (I read this post first), I had Modra disrupt the normal flow of lava through the foundry before the PCs arrived, so that the camp "flooded" with lava while they battled Modra, preventing them from leaving the way they came. I made it clear that the tower was higher ground, and by the way, that evil guy is in there. They got the message. ;) But thanks for the post, it helped me. Z
#12 SourceOfEvil May 10, 2011 13:03:03	I ended up with a HEAVILY modified storyline. When Modra went through the portal the party just held the area and called in the locals to close the portal. Their whole mindset was "Go through to Shadowfell at OUR level? Don't think so..." It worked out because we were able to get in a lot of Overlook RP time and I eventually replaced the whole adventure with "Heathen" (a non-SoW adventure of the same level). I worked in some weapons running that was included in that adventure into being related to Sarshan's dealings, so when they got back to town they were very interested in Sarshan. It also left Modra alive, so that I could re-open this link whenever I wanted. THEN....I read the long run chasing Sarshan in BtMT and thought my players are never going to do that. I took the opportunity to bring the Umbraforge back into play. Now that they're 11th level they are ready to go after Sarshan on his home turf, so it's a simple matter of putting the portal to Umbraforge at the base of the Mottle Tower, and upping the levels of creatures from there, or moving other creatures from the BtMT adventure over. Was a decent amount of re-working, but I think I'm ready for this weekend's jaunt into the Shadowfell. Also, te characters certainly don't feel railroaded. They have completely determined their path. AND at this point they're SO ready to crush Sarshan, since he'd been blamed for everything that has happened in Overlook since... :D