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| #1sareldMar 27, 2008 21:07:38 | My DM recently purchased the DL campaign setting and ruled that it would replace our normal 'vanilla' d&d setting from now on. One of the changes made is that any wizard now must undertake a mini solo-adventure quest and enter a certain (awful) prestige class once he reaches level 5, or become outlawed amongst the lawful wizards who of course all want me to join their club. Now, I love playing wizards, and I really enjoy making builds, but there is absolutely no way that I am destroying every single wizard build from here and on with levels in Wizard of High Sorcery, so I must play renegade wizards from now on it seems. Now, there are three questions I need answered to be prepared for the consequences of my descision, as I have absolutely no knowledge of the workings of dragonlance as a setting, or as a fantasy universe for that matter. a) How do I purchase components for spells above level 2, without revealing my renegade status to whatever magic vendor I am buying from? Do I need to get my hands on some official papers, or can I just purchase a colored robe and pretend to belong to the club? b) What efforts will be made to find me? Will I need to have nondetection and anticipate teleportation up and running at all times, or can I just remain hidden by not turning people into toads in public? c) How do I deal with fellow wizards who are aware of my abiliities? Tere is another wizard in the party, a necromancer if Im not mistaken, who are gunning for a black robe.. what can I enspect from this guy? Can I trust him to be more loyal to his party than his brothers-in-black-robes? Or do I need a plan to kill him with a moments notice from the point where I inform him that Im not joining the club? The time of the campaign is the age of mortals or something similar, in which the gods have recently awoken from a longer period of absence, and my character is a lawful neutral silvanesti conjurer 3/master specialist 1... with 200 XP to go before level 5. |
| #2mindolinMar 27, 2008 22:30:19 | Tell the DM that you don't actually need to take levels of the prestige class to be a member of the Orders. It has been stated by the people who wrote the books that you don't need the class to be considered a Wizard of High Sorcerery. Other than that, just take a single level, and you're in. It's not that bad, you still get full spellcasting. However, another way if you're dead set against being a member of the Orders is to wear robes like what a member of the order wears. That way you can disguise yourself as being a Wizard of the Tower. Efforts are usually NOT made to find a renegade UNLESS he is misusing the magic, in such a way as to damage the reputation of the Towers. Usually, a Robed wizard will do all within their power to bring in or down a renegade. With a Black Robed Wizard, your odds are leaning towards being slaughtered without mercy, though with the prior adventuring together, the Black Robe may bring you in instead, in respect of your past experiences. As for buying spell components, when you're in a new town, pretend to be an apprentice seeking spell components at the behest of your traveling master. And as for the crack about the Lawful wizards, be advised that the Wizards of High Sorcery can be of any alignment, not just the lawful ones. |
| #3darthsylverApr 02, 2008 23:54:31 | If you are a renegade wizard you might have some problems especially if you are going to be having a Wizard of High Sorcery (WoHS) in your group. 1) As Mindolin has pointed out you do not need to take the Prestige Class to become a member. However you will need to take the test of High Sorcery in order to be accepted as a member. There is a chance that your character might be killed or maimed while taking the test. 2) Avoiding detection is a simple manner, don't be seen casting high-level (3rd-level or higher) spells or at least don't leave any witnesses :D . Fortunately this is not Star Wars so someone cannot "sense" you using magic unless they are actively watching you, either with their own eyes or using scrying spells, etc... 3) Acquiring spell components could be problematic. While you could do as Mindolin suggests and attempt to pass yourself off as an apprentice, this could actually lead to more problems then at first glance. In Ansalon (the main continent for DL), the Wizard community is very small (in the current age there is only about 40 wizards) and most people know their fellow wizards even if not from their own order. As far as for most spell component showever they are fairly common things such as grave dirt, spider webs, rose petals, etc... so you could probably gather these things yourselves. SOme of the more experience things such as expensive gems or silver goblets and such can be commisioned from a jewelry or blacksmith. There is a city on Ansalon there has an agreement with the orders in which the orders have signed a non-aggression treaty with, this city Qindaras lies in the plains of Dust so you could probably get components there with no hindrances. 4) During the age of wild sorcery resurfaced and sorcerers begin to reappear throught Krynn. Sorcerers use the same components and vastly outnumber the wizards at this current time. 5) Different orders handles renengeades differently (just as different wizards handle renengades differently even if from the same order). White robes will typically encourage the renegade to join the orders (prefereably the white robes, but in the end they mainly just try to get them to join) but will generally leave the Renegade alone as long as they do not pose a threat to the existence of the orders. Black robes will attempt to encourage the renegade to join the blacks robes and failing that they might either try to get the existence of the renegade their personal secret and a hidden resource or might flat out attempt to kill the renegade. Red robes will encourage the renegade to join the orders (don't care which order, one way or the other) and failing that will typically kill the renengade. 6) Sorcerers would be valuable allies in any attempt to remain hidden from the orders, both in support of components but also information. 7) There is an entire continent (Taladas) that has never really had to worry about the Orders of High Sorcery, so if you had teleport you could always teleport there to either run from the orders or acquire components. 8) The orders will only take methods to track you down if you draw their attention first. If they determine you are a threat to the existence of magic then they will definitely send someone after you. If you are not a threat then they might send a representative to "educate" you about the "benefits" of joining the orders. 9) Finally, as to what you can expect from the wizard in your group, the only one who can really say is him. So talk to him, find out why he is joining? Does he genuinely believe in the orders or is he just doing it out of fear himself? Of course this also depends on how much you trust him, he is as you say, gunning for the black robes. :D Regardless unless you join the black robes yourself, there might be a confrontation in your future despite your decision, as the Black Robes do not tend to get along with White or Red robes outside the towers anyway. ![]() |
| #4sareldApr 04, 2008 15:44:33 | Wow, that was a lot of useful information, thanks guys ^^ I spoke to the DM about having to have levels in the prestige class, but he feels that any wizard belonging to the orders need at least the first level in the prestige class so that his/her magic are attuned to the position of the Orders favored moon. It makes a lot of sense from a fluffy point of view, but my current wizard will most likely not want to join. Fluffwise, my wizard is a former silvanesti noble who lost his lands, fortune and most of his family during the fall of his homelands, and all he have left now is his favourite hunting falcon (his hawk familiar) and his endless dedication towards his magical research. He feels that attuning himself to the moons of magic is more of a liability than a boon, as his magical performance will be made less consistant and besause he will be forced to abandon some of the things he have learned through his own research in order to conform to the magical paragdrim of the Orders of High Sorcery. However, IF I decide to join, what would become of me? I am a Conjurer, and as far as I know none of the robes accept conjurers. White are divination and abjuration, red is transmutation and evocation, and black is necromancy and enchantment, right? The other dude WAS a necromancer, he just took the test of high sorcery last night. For his final test he had to have his right hand removed and replaced by a zombified graft in order to prove his dedication towards his magic. The graft itself has some minor magical bonus attached to it, and it works just as well as a regular hand, but he have become rather unpopular at the taverns we frequent. The guy however is euphoric about his membership, and seems to be going barking mad with all the power will get for serving his dark overlords.. fortunately he havent seen me cast any 3rd level spells yet, and the first one he sees might just be a stinking cloud aimed at his face. Im gearing up for a mano a mano wizard battle next session, and I will definately be looking into those geographcal areas next time I get a hold of the campaign setting. Thanks again ![]() |
| #5mindolinApr 05, 2008 14:38:10 | Taladas has not been officially updated to 3rd edition, or any variants thereof. Technically, the moons are supposed to affect every practitioner of focused arcane magic, not just wizards with Wizard of High Sorcery levels. Have him check the errata for WoHS in Towers of High Sorcery, it specifies even further that a wizard need not take levels in the class to be one, and it removes the requirment of speciliation in a school. |
| #6darthsylverApr 05, 2008 15:28:30 | Wow, that was a lot of useful information, thanks guys ^^ Technically you could be a member of any of the orders and still be a Conjurer (or any other type of specialist). You just happen to receive certain benefits if you are a specialist that your order favors. For instance if you are a Diviner and join the white robes you have the option to gain some more bonus\abilities pertaining to be a Diviner (at the cost of another school that is favored by one of the other orders), but this is not required. You could even be a generalist (no specilization) and join the orders. The only thing that decides what order you are in is your alignment. You being neutral would wind up being a red robe (unless you had a serious change of heart during the test to shove your alignment one way or the other) for instance saving\killing a complete stranger for no gain to yourself. Now in the DLCS (which is what ity sounds like your DM is running off of) it does state that you must be a specialist and some other restrictions to join the order. These restrictions are eased up in the book "Tower of High Sorcery" which details the orders in more detail. As far as the moons affecting casters across the globe this is something that is not as well explained as it shoud be. All magic of a focused nature (wizards only, not Sorcerers or bards) is supposedly provided by the Gods of Magic. A Wizard however on Ansalon does not feel the deeper connections until 5th level (when they can cast 3rd level spells) and only after joining the orders (and taking the prestige class). Order members without the PRC do not get the benefits of Lunar Alignment (which does not make sense to me but oh well, maybe this is something we can fix with a Talent Tree once 4E comes out). Wizards on Taladas however are affected by the moons regardless because there are no orders of high Sorcery on Taladas. However if one declares himself a renegade on Taladas (how exactly that works I don't know, because technically every Wizard on Taladas is not a member of the orders and is therefore a renegade period). As i said, the magic of Krynn is a little confusing. Basically what it boils down to is this. By game mechanics you can join the orders by taking the test (and possibly gain some minor bonuses depending on how much risk you take), and avoid the inconsistant power levels provided by the moons by not taking the PRC. You being Silvanesti and Lawful however are already firting with being cast out of Silvanesti society simply by not taking the test and becoming a White. Yes, I know, you are not evil. Silvanesti however if you ain't good, you become Dark Elf. They might change this societal view due to events taking place currently but I doubt it. :D So regardless, even if you take the test and become a Red Robe, you might still be considered a Dark Elf (byt elves only, and they don't typically hunt you down for this). Legally, one could even be a Necromancer and become a White robe. Sort of like a Coroner (Medical Examiner). You learn the ways of the body in order to best defeat said evil creatures. Granted other white robes might look at you funny. :D Hey, when you have 2 ex-sorcerers as the head of the Black and White orders anything is possible. ;) |
| #7rikkiwalkerApr 06, 2008 14:34:46 | Should be pretty easy as long as one has some skill and cunning; in the current age their are very few members of the orders left and sorcerers dont care about the orders rules on renegades. And you gotta remember, Ansalon may be a small place, but Krynn is BIG. It has several other continants that the Orders seem to have ignored all this time; during the Last Battles it would have been a simple thing for the orders to leave Ansalon and start anew, though it would have meant leaving their homes behind. Spell components would not be a huge problem I think; I dont see the Orders maintaining factorys that mass produce componants, wizards can either just gather their own stuff, or purchase or steal it from non-wizards who do have it; use detect thoughts and other mind reading spells to find out who has stuff, just because your a wizard does not mean you have to wear robes. Among the orders I think it is considered taboo NOT to wear robes at all reasonable times if you are a member in good standing. So renegades can easily pass undetected. |
| #8bujioApr 11, 2008 22:45:35 | In the new books that Margaret Weis has been writing, there was a discussion of the Conclave, and they basically said that they didn't have the manpower just yet to do anything about the renegades or sorcerers. When they are so vastly outnumbered, I think your character is safe. There are only about 40 some wizards in the tower, and they have a continent to run, and you are one of thousands of sorcerers and renegades throughout the land. They will have a hard time getting at you. And as for your black robed friend? He's nothing a well planted dagger can't fix. |