FR is also a little more anything goes (as far as D&D fantasy goes) while dragonlance has no orcs, very few giants, no halfling's etc.. it does however introduce its own iconic races, such as Draconians, Kender and their take on Gnomes being engineers etc
But background and feel of the setting is the most important difference in my opinion. The backdrop of war and the struggle between law and chaos always seem to be the tantamount issues in the setting.
Ansalon is small. Very small compared to your average campaign setting. If you take a map of Faerûn and draw a rectangle that goes from Calimshan to Waterdeep to the north, and from the Sword Coast in the west to Chessenta in the east, then you have something as big as Anaslon. It's possible to go from one end of the continent to the other in a few weeks of horseback riding. On the other hand, magic portals are almost nonexistent, and you won't find wizard able to cast a teleport spell just in any city, and chances are he wouldn't do it just for money anyway.
The setting is a lot less high-powered than the Forgotten Realms. In Faerûn, you can't party with the music too loud without the two thousand years old lich living underground complaining about the noise. DragonLance does have epic-level threats and characters, but there are only a few of those in each generation. At any given time, there are probably less than a dozen epic characters active on Ansalon. And while Faerûn has lots of powerful character who have been around for centuries (Elminster, Khelben, Manshoon, Halaster, Szass Tam, etc.), rare are those in DragonLance who remain figures of power for even half their normal lifetime.
Characters in DragonLance often live short, meaningful lives. Many novel characters don't live to see old age, and yet all will have done great things for which they'll be remembered for generations. And I'm not just talking about main characters: the actions of the individual matter greatly in DragonLance. Anyone, from the lowliest blacksmith of innkeeper to the mightiest dragon or wizard gets to play a role without which the world wouldn't be the same.
Ansalon does have lots and lots of ruins from ancient empires, and they're often still filled with treasure and guardians, but there are no descendant of those empires biding their time until they can rise back to power, no ancient race sleeping somewhere in a forgotten cave, no long-lost sect of mages pulling the strings in the shadows. The history of Krynn can help understand the present, but it remains history.
The balance between Good and Evil is a recurrent theme in DragonLance. There are three pantheons of deities: the Good gods, the Evil gods, and the gods of Neutrality. At the dawn of time, the god created the good metallic dragons and the evil chromatic dragons. Then they created three races: the good elves, the evil ogres, and the neutral humans. There is now two major orders of knights: the mostly lawful good Knights of Solamnia and the mostly lawful evil Knights of Neraka. The wizards are almost all regrouped in the Orders of High Sorcery, which are further divided in three orders: the good white robes, the neutral red robes, and the evil black robes. And so on...
Dragonlance only has 21 gods, and no racial pantheons. Though the names used for them vary from region to region, everyone in the world who worships a deity chooses from the same restricted pool. And many people choose not to worship any god.
There's no Underdark. Planar travel is all but unheard of. But time travel does occur sometimes.
Thanks for clearing that up. The Stoneteller trilogy that I'm reading at the moment seems to mirror that theme with the heroes leading an entire goblin army...
No worries, Borris has a pretty good breakdown there too.
but there are no descendant of those empires biding their time until they can rise back to power, no ancient race sleeping somewhere in a forgotten cave
On these two points, I beg to differ. The Irda are descendants of an ancient empire, they were something of an ancient race, and they were hanging out on an undiscovered island :D .
I'm just starting to get into D&D and have read a few Dragonlance novels as well as played Baldur's Gate and I'm a little confused about the background material. Both worlds seem to be fairly "generic" high fantasy worlds with similar races, classes and monsters. Could someone explain to me how or whether the two worlds are fundamentally different in lore as well as feel?
In a game design sense, both are generic worlds created during 1st Edition. The Forgotten Realms was published second but planned first and was, essentially, a big world where anything D&D had a place and where anything could fit in. It was a place for the designer to write any story he wanted with elements of any culture from the Earth's past.
Dragonlance was designed to be a place where the conventions, restrictions, and arbitrary rules of 1st Edition D&D had an explanation and a purpose. The generic fantasy elements all had a reason and a background.
There weren't just high elves, grey elves, and wood elves. There were Qualinesti, Silvanesti, and Kagonesti and each had their own history and differing culture. There wasn't just a mage guild, there was the Order of High Sorcery.
I tried reading FR 16 years ago and the fact that the setting was so magic item heavy was a show stopper for me. Seems Faerûn's heroes "par say" need +8 magical items to get a job done :P . I am not saying FR is a bad world to check out by any means, just a different feel I do not care for.
If you want to find out more about Dragonlance check out the Nexus they have a list of all the novels/ gaming books there. Plus the Lexicon that has a lot of information on the setting, people and factions of Krynn. Last but not least check out the DL forums where all the diehards kick it and can answer any question you may have.
No shame I know
-snipped, reluctantly-
Truly awesome breakdown, friend.
Another interesting difference is that good and evil aren't always nearly so clear cut as they generally are in FR, for better or worse.
Raistline Majere is the prime example, but hardly the only one. The god of the black moon, whose name escapes me, isn't nearly as evil as his mother, for instance. He is often depicted as reluctantly following her lead because, well, she'll eat him if he doesn't. Often may be the wrong word, it's happened though. He is also the patron of the black robe mages, who are by no means all evil. The nights of Neraka(i think) are often depicted in a way that makes it hard to easily call them evil, in spite of the fact that they are dedicated to an evil goddess.
it's also the one setting wherein there is no excuse to ban dragonborn, because the draconians(dragonic humanoids, if it wasn't obvious) have been around since the primary books.
I love dragonlance. I may run something dragonlance soon...whether it gets updated to 4e or not.
I mean, how hard is it to rename halflings, dragonborn, not allow half-orcs or drow(or reskin them) and work out hoopaks? Right? maybe?
I'll look into it...:P
Anyone remember a website, years ago, that was all about Kender? When you opened the homepage there was a quote from princess pride, where they're rhyming on the boat?
"Phesic, are there rocks ahead?"
"If there are, we'll all be dead!"
"No more rymes no, I mean it!"
"Anybody have a peanut?"
Seemed pretty appropriate for a Kender dedicate site. :P
Also, what's going on in Krynn now? I haven't read since Palin and crew were working on overthrowing the dragon overlords after all the gods left, after the chaos war. Did they get magic to work right again? Get the gods to come back?
Heh. Fizban. He appeared in the DeathGate Cycle by Wiess and Hickman. He was an old mage who rambled about how he used to be a god. His name was like...Bizfan, or Banfiz, or somesuch.
I lol'd.
As to what is going on, you have a lot of reading to catch up on. But of hand read the War of Souls trio to get started. Also the Lexicon is a great place to research any topic.
On these two points, I beg to differ. The Irda are descendants of an ancient empire, they were something of an ancient race, and they were hanging out on an undiscovered island :D .
Yeah, but all they want to do is be left alone. They are not biding their time until they can take over the world or crush it.
As for a reason to like DragonLance? Taladas (the only other continent on the world that has been mapped) has Lava Sailing Gnome Artificers. Let me say that again. Lava. Sailing. Gnome. Artificers.
Yeah, but all they want to do is be left alone. They are not biding their time until they can take over the world or crush it.
As for a reason to like DragonLance? Taladas (the only other continent on the world that has been mapped) has Lava Sailing Gnome Artificers. Let me say that again. Lava. Sailing. Gnome. Artificers.
I like the way you think.
That really is enough reason.
Also, spring loaded chunks of floor, and some nets, instead of elevators.
And really punny names for things.
I was reading one book, and this gnome wrote an article that was one big long pun on the internet.
Oh, and they have a type of music, that's called techgnome.
And somehow, it doesn't feel strange in the context of the gnomes when you read about it. That is a feat.
Kencyclopedia is the site you are thinking of.
As to what is going on, you have a lot of reading to catch up on. But of hand read the War of Souls trio to get started. Also the Lexicon is a great place to research any topic.
Thank you so much for that link.
Also, War of Souls, is that the one with the dragon overlords?
Thank you so much for that link.
Also, War of Souls, is that the one with the dragon overlords?
The dragon overlords came about in the Dragons of a New Age trilogy. Three of them met their end in War of Souls, one in Lake of Death, and the final in the module Price of Courage.
The dragon overlords came about in the Dragons of a New Age trilogy. Three of them met their end in War of Souls, one in Lake of Death, and the final in the module Price of Courage.
Ok, I'm not that far behind then, really. I've read the new age trilogy, and one of the books in the Dhaman trilogy.
I always wanted Palin to be a Red Mage for some reason. I think it would have fit him better, but he just wanted to distance himself from the darkness of his uncle, and the pain that it caused, and to make his father happy, and not worry about Palin going down the same road as Raistlin. After a while, he just got used to being a white robe.
Completely random thought of the day.
And there is also Kang, a draconian who teach us that every evil-created creature must not have to be evil (:
Nuatari is also more a trickster than an evil mastermind bent on taking over the world.
Good points. That's one of the things I love about Dragonlance. BTW, doesn't he try to oppose queen T at one point, but she succeeds in convincing him that he had no choice but to not get in her way?
I seem to remeber something like that, he was pretty ****** off when she went behind his back and formed the grey robes (her own personal wizards) therby steping all over his primary domain. He was also not at all pleased about her stealing the world. But mostly he tried to placate her or just avoid his mothers wrath.
Yeah, kinda seemed like he wasn't really into her crap. He seemed to like the world as it functioned, and his place in it. Which kind of makes the definition of evil in DL a bit different than it's assumed to be in FR.
How does the DL world differ from the FR world?
Dragonlance is about story, good battling against evil. Battling but never triumphing, because if good wins the balance is destroyed and the world ends. Heroic knights fighting the good fight, evil knights pretending to be honourable. Sacrifice and love, intolerance and hatred.
And dragons. Lotsa dragons. Riding dragonback with magical lances.
And dragons. Lotsa dragons. Riding dragonback with magical lances.
Thats funny, I played in many Dragonlance games and not once did they involve dragons, dragonback riding or magic lances. Wait.... on second thought there was one short lived game I played in where me ( a fearsome noble Minotaur warrior ) and my companion a strange tinker gnome with a flare for grenades encountered a rather large Red dragon. We ducked behind some stone pillars to avoid certain doom as the dragon let lose its firey breath. In desperation I asked the gnome for one of his shock grenades to perhaps stun the dragon and make good our escape. The gnome handed me a grenade and I threw it at the dragon for all I was worth (nat 20) hit him right between the eyes. Me and the gnome then stared dumbstruck as the dragon shook its head, the great red beast spoke one word before frying us both where we stood, "patunia". It seemed the gnome had mixed up the labels on his grenades yet again, why he even had potpourri grenades still remains a mystery.
Coming from a readers point of view, not a gamer. Dragonlance is rich with history. I myself have collected all the gaming books just to get all the information I can on the different cultures, factions, less mentioned areas and deeper character insights. There is just so much to read up on and the setting all connects together in one way of an other. I tried reading FR 16 years ago and the fact that the setting was so magic item heavy was a show stopper for me. Seems Faerûn's heroes "par say" need +8 magical items to get a job done :P . I am not saying FR is a bad world to check out by any means, just a different feel I do not care for. If you want to find out more about Dragonlance check out the Nexus they have a list of all the novels/ gaming books there. Plus the Lexicon that has a lot of information on the setting, people and factions of Krynn. Last but not least check out the DL forums where all the diehards kick it and can answer any question you may have. No shame I know
To be the counter-balance here and coming from both a gamers and readers point of view, I found DragonLance a wonderful read but for me, hard to immerse into as a campaign setting. This is primarly due to it's size as a setting. When I read the series (from Dragonslance Chronicles to the War of Souls) it seemed that anything the PCs could do would be upstaged by the Heroes of the Lance and later Heroic companies the authors wrote about.
This doesn't mean to say I didn't love the books and I thought the story was great (except Queen T taking the world...I thought that sorta "Jumped the Shark" with the setting) but I was hard for me as a DM to get the PCs involved without stepping on toes.
When I run a game or play a game in FR, the vastness of the setting gives me more freedom to do what I want. I don't have to worry about the constant back-and-forth struggle that seems to drive most of the stories in DL. Events that happen in Waterdeep from a novel won't over-much affect what might happen in Everlund or the Trollmoors where my PCs are playing.
In addition, the pantheon is much greater. 4e did away with quite a few deities (and rightfully so) but the flavor and diversity is still there. It is present in DL as well, just not as much.
Then you have the various organizations that are present within FR. They range so greatly (the Emerald Enclave, Red Wizards of Thay, Triadic Knights, the Harpers, the Zhentarim, Cult of the Dragon, etc...) and all of their agendas are different than the next. But in DL, its as if there is strive for balance/counter-balance in the setting. If there are the Knights of Solamnia then there are Knights of Neraka, the White robes oppose the Black robes, and so on.
Of course, this is just my opinion and a reason I've found to have more fun gaming in FR rather than DL.
As for Faerun's heroes needing +8 weapons (is there even such a thing, lol?!) to complete the mission, I've found many of the books I've read rarely illuminate the importance of the main characters weapon or other item. There are a few exceptions, such as Jarlaxle who has a magical item for every situation, but that is a quirk of that specific character.
And I've found that by reading both settings, it has given me a better understand of how to run a campaign and how to really focus and import the PCs as the main characters.
Happy gaming and reading.