Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 DoctorBadWolf Jul 31, 2009 0:48:33	So? There's fewer types of elves in DnD now. Would you reflavor drow to fit one of the DL elven races? Would you simply rename dragonborn and kender, or personalize them more? How would you stat the Hoopak? Anyone seen the DL movie, did it suck? Discuss.
#2 warghoul Jul 31, 2009 8:53:58	I dont play 4e so I cant help your there. Silvanesti, Qualinesti, Kagonesti, Dargonesti, and the lesser known Dimernesti. Not sure where a Drow would fill in for one of those unless they really changed up the drow in 4e. Huge fan of Dragonlance but I quit watching the movie about 30 min in. Horrible.
#3 strimos Jul 31, 2009 11:18:11	Well, you could use eladrin stats for the Silvanesti, elven stats for the Qualinesti. Dragonborn would need a little tweaking to become Draconians, as well as Halflings to Kender, but not much work at all to do. And I watched the whole movie, and hated every minute of it. It's almost a completely different story than Dragons of Autumn Twilight.
#4 CCS Jul 31, 2009 11:39:59	At the most all I'd do for the elves is MAYBE use eladrin stats for the Silvanesti & elven stats for the Qualinesti. I'd probably drop the eladrins fey step ability. What I'd most likely end up doing though is simply using elven stats for both factions & highlighting the differences between them through descriptions/RP. Drow? Sorry, there are no Drow in Krynn. Just like there's no orcs etc. Halflings? They've already been re-flavored. They're called Kender. They're imune to fear, wear shoes, etc. I guess you could use dragonborn as some form of draconian. Especially if you intend to allow them as PC a race (afterall, turning to stone, exploding, etc when they hit 0hp might not be much fun for a player). But for NPCs/monsters, why not just open the DMG & make up a true 4e draconian instead? The hoopak? It's simply a staff/sling - use as either, apply the prof. bonus/damage/range/etc as per whatever it's being used as at the moment.
#5 Steveman Aug 02, 2009 7:29:46	Step 1: Completely ignore the post Summer Flame novels, and set the new setting book about 50 years after the events of that novel. Step 2: Refluff Races - Integrate Dragonborn as a race of Draconians who were blessed by Paladine inthe era after the great war but before the battle with The Chaos allowing them to become something more than just a slave race. - Elves cover everything surface and elfy. - Eladrin are a "new" race that have been there all along living in a distant fairy realm that only after the defeat of The Chaos that has been reconnected to the material realm. - Tieflings are a "new" race that were born of the magical backlash of the defeat of The Chaos. - Tinker Gnomes. Yeah, tinker gnomes... uhm... I guess we'd have to make a new race to cover them, as they are somewhat anti-magic... yeah... We could just say the race was all but destroyed and the 4E gnomes come from the same realm as the Eladrin. - Keep Halfling/Kender, Humans, Dwarfs, Minotaurs, etc as is. Step 3: Magic - The loss of the moon gods does not mean that their magic is lost. Without their tyranny over WIZARDS ONLY magic, sorcerers became possible. Warlocks popped up because people thought magic was gone without the moon gods... they were wrong. - Divine casters draw their magic from the faith fo the people. While the gods may be gone, the belief they will return will fuels a divine font of power for them to draw power from. Step 4: ???? Step 5: PROFIT!
#6 myriddian Aug 02, 2009 14:26:43	In other words Steveman, you don't want 4e Dragonlance to be Dragonlance.
#7 Steveman Aug 02, 2009 15:59:55	No and don't make assumptions. I want 4E dragonlance to take a new direction than the horrible 5th-age card-based RPG and novels took it. I want 4E dragonlance to be remade into a setting that can actually be used in a game without it being weighed down by the meta-plot. I want 4E dragonlance to get as much attention and work as FR and Ebberon got. But most importantly, I want the world of some of my favorite novels of all time to be fun to roleplay in!
#8 Dragonhelm Aug 03, 2009 15:26:01	Step 1: Completely ignore the post Summer Flame novels, and set the new setting book about 50 years after the events of that novel. War of Souls happens around 40 SC, and the timeline has progressed another 10 years since, roughly. We're already there. Personally, I'd advance the timeline even further forward to 100 years after the War of the Lance. That being said, WotC will not retcon the Fifth Age. They had the chance with War of Souls, but did not take it. To do so would be to discount a fair portion of their back catalog as well as diminish themselves in the eyes of fans for taking the easy way out. Just roll with the punches, and move on. Step 2: Refluff Races - Integrate Dragonborn as a race of Draconians who were blessed by Paladine inthe era after the great war but before the battle with The Chaos allowing them to become something more than just a slave race. So, something like a noble draconian? ;) - Elves cover everything surface and elfy. - Eladrin are a "new" race that have been there all along living in a distant fairy realm that only after the defeat of The Chaos that has been reconnected to the material realm. Eladrin could be used to describe the elves after they enetered the valley of Inath-Wakenti. Perhaps the power of the valley changed them, or at least the Qualinesti and Silvanesti races. I'd use the elf to describe the Kagonesti. - Tinker Gnomes. Yeah, tinker gnomes... uhm... I guess we'd have to make a new race to cover them, as they are somewhat anti-magic... yeah... We could just say the race was all but destroyed and the 4E gnomes come from the same realm as the Eladrin. I think I would go with a new race, as DL's gnomes are not fey. For a class, they could go with the artificer. You can file some serial numbers off, use the tinkerer build, and then you're in business. - The loss of the moon gods does not mean that their magic is lost. Without their tyranny over WIZARDS ONLY magic, sorcerers became possible. Warlocks popped up because people thought magic was gone without the moon gods... they were wrong. When the moon gods "left the world" post-Summer Flame, new types of magic were discovered. Sorcerers tapped into the ambient Wild Sorcery of Krynn, a rediscovered form of arcane magic. Certainly, other variations on the theme might have arisen as well. With the return of the moon gods and the arcane power of High Sorcery, Krynn is ripe for conflict amongst arcane magic-users. - Divine casters draw their magic from the faith fo the people. While the gods may be gone, the belief they will return will fuels a divine font of power for them to draw power from. Would that cover both the magic of clerics and the power of mysticism?
#9 Dragonhelm Aug 03, 2009 15:30:35	In other words Steveman, you don't want 4e Dragonlance to be Dragonlance. Define "Dragonlance." Are we talking the WotL era, the Chaos War era, the pre-WoS Fifth Age, the post-WoS Age of Mortals, the Third Dragon War, the reign of Istar, the Time of Darkness, Taladas, etc. etc.??? Dragonlance is a setting of settings. No two definitions will match. I think Steveman's vision is every bit as valid as mine, yours, WotC's, MWP's, and so on.
#10 metalviper03 Aug 07, 2009 18:11:29	Same thing about the movie, I was very, very, very disappointed.
#11 kalstrand Aug 09, 2009 17:49:18	Personally I would use the Eladrin for Silvanesti and Qualinesti and Elves for the Kagonesti. As for the Dimernesti and Dargonesti I'm not sure how to treat them. I would probably not address the sea elves until the need actually arose in game.
#12 DoctorBadWolf Aug 10, 2009 4:09:45	I've read through all your posts, and there's definately some good feedback there. A few things this thread has made me realize. a. I'm not as worried as I thought about each race matching up perfectly in it's crunch and fluff. 2. I really do want each race of elves to feel different, even if the nature of their powers much be reflavored. I'll probably go with using all three 4e elf races, so that all three DL elves have different stats and powers, etc. Note: I know there are five races of elves, but unless someone wants to play anything other than a Silvanesti, Qualenesti, or Kagonesti I'm not worrying about the other two. Probably go elf= Kagonesti, eladrin= Silvanesti, and drow=Qualinesti. It may not be perfect, and I might switch the last too, but I can't find the 3.5 stats for them, so it's harder to decide. Someone made a comment about there not being drow in dragonlance. This would be why I suggested reflavoring drow as one of the DL elven races. Kender, I guess, would as halflings, but I'd like to give them some sort of cool taunting thing, and something to simulate their abillity to bounce back from things easily. IDK, I guess the remaining difference can just be roleplayed. Dwarves. I really wish there were different types of dwarves in 4e... Gnomes. I'm gonna stick with the same race. Int and Cha make sense for DL gnomes. Might replace their racial power and change thier keyword to natural, but that's it. Draconians...would trading the breath attack for flight(of some kind) be balanced? I'm willing to just ignore the death throws for PCs, or just wing it, but at least one kind of draconian have wings, and that's actually useful. If someone wants to play a half-orc, I'll just tell them they can be a really ugly human, who may or may not have some distant ogrish blood. If that doesn't sound fun to them, the people I'm playing with won't have a problem with just playing something else rather than asking me to jury rig something for them. Oh, watched the movie. I didn't...hate it. The animation was...horrible for something made in 2008. Seriously, if you can't do better than that, don't make a cartoon. Just don't. Other than that, the characters ranged from alright to great in terms of capturing what I imagined.(not necessarily how the looked) Raistlin smirked at people a lot, Fizban was, Fizban, and thus fabulous. Tass was more annoying than I found him in the books, but I suppose that's because in the books I didn't have to hear him. :P The story? Eh. It was about as much the same as I expected it to be. The main points were there. Having not reread the books in a few years, I couldn't think of any glaring issues. Staff, Solace, slave bit, elves, Laurana tags along, save kids, old female dragon that's protective of the kids, etc. Blah blah. I don't think any story problems would have been noticable had the movie looked like something made this decade. Seriously, I kept thinking maybe I'd downloaded the wrong movie somehow. Yikes.
#13 DoctorBadWolf Aug 10, 2009 4:15:07	Oh! Hoopaks. Quarterstaff, yes. My problem is the sling. Having seen multiple pictures of hoopaks on book covers, I can only conclude that they are either slingshots or slings, either way on the end of a staff. Either way, they should do more damage than a normal sling(physics, and to justify them being a superior weapon and thus requiring a feat for anyone other than a kender). I would put them up one die step, I think.
#14 Steveman Aug 10, 2009 4:46:25	The "sling" end of a hoopak is exactly a slingshot. Having owned quite a few in my youth, including home-made and store baught ones. I can tell yah, they are pretty short range weapons. I could easily see a hoopak/shlingshot having higher damage than a sling, but also having a lot shorter range.
#15 DoctorBadWolf Aug 11, 2009 3:47:24	The "sling" end of a hoopak is exactly a slingshot. Having owned quite a few in my youth, including home-made and store baught ones. I can tell yah, they are pretty short range weapons. I could easily see a hoopak/shlingshot having higher damage than a sling, but also having a lot shorter range. Makes sense. And thank for the clarification on the whole sling/slingshot thing. Slingshot was what I origenally thought of it as, so I'm glad that my mental image matches up. Ok, so, a slingshot is likely to have about the same length you can pull it back no matter what, assuming the same materials, etc. The reason I'm seeing more damage is using the staff to increase velocity as it leaves the cup of the slingshot by snapping the staff forward as part of the release motion. I figure it's reasonable to assume that this would take an extra amount of familiarity with the weapon. Now, the dual purpose may translate to a superior weapon as it is, so it might be appropriate to make a feat that increases the damage and range(increased velocity would do both) than normal. The hoopak could start with a slightly shorter range than a sling, but dual purpose. A defensive melee weapon that is also a ranged weapon is pretty good, all on it's own. So, the feat would be similar in theme to the eladrin soldier feat, but increase the damage by one step, and bring the range up to sling range. That was probably more long winded than it needed to be. Sorry.
#16 pallysftwbaby Mar 16, 2010 16:07:47	For the nesties, I have eladrin as Silvanesti, drow as Qualinesti (just mechanically, as the Cha bonus seemed to fit as Qualinesti are more social than other elves), and elves as Kagonesti.  I haven't made any decisions regarding Dargonesti or Dimernesti as player races because I never run aquatic campaigns. Draconians are dragonborn; the type of draconian is determined by the energy type of the breath weapon (such as lightning damage for lightning or bozak draconians). Kender are halflings; the halfling stats seem to almost perfectly fit kender. Gnomes remain unchanged; I ignore the whole 'feywild' thing in Dragonlance anyway. For the ogre races, I have goliaths as ogres, half-orcs as half-ogres, and devas as irda. Tieflings, I guess, can be phaethons, just mechanically.
#17 DoctorBadWolf Mar 20, 2010 7:34:12	For the nesties, I have eladrin as Silvanesti, drow as Qualinesti (just mechanically, as the Cha bonus seemed to fit as Qualinesti are more social than other elves), and elves as Kagonesti.  I haven't made any decisions regarding Dargonesti or Dimernesti as player races because I never run aquatic campaigns. Draconians are dragonborn; the type of draconian is determined by the energy type of the breath weapon (such as lightning damage for lightning or bozak draconians). Kender are halflings; the halfling stats seem to almost perfectly fit kender. Gnomes remain unchanged; I ignore the whole 'feywild' thing in Dragonlance anyway. For the ogre races, I have goliaths as ogres, half-orcs as half-ogres, and devas as irda. Tieflings, I guess, can be phaethons, just mechanically. The orge races part makes crap tons of sense. awesome, and the elves(and the others, really), I agree with you on, and it seems pretty straight forward. Reflavouring powers in terms of what is happening story wise is very easy, so I'm not worried about that. It also would be pretty easy to just use eladrin for S and Q and elves for K, but I prefer S and Q to feel different. Also, i need to dig around and find my bardic orders idea...I posted it in a thread here...can't remember which one, though. something to do with robe colours or somesuch...
#18 skritz_the_lizardmen Apr 02, 2010 15:36:35	Im a bit anti-4.0, but im a DL fan so seeing the setting rise again (like Dark Sun 4.0) would be a good news for me. The first thing to remember is that not all races or class fit in Dragonlance. Dragonborn, Tiefling, Goliath, Orcs, Halflings have to go. This is against the 4.0 ethos that setting must be forced to include them. (im looking at you, poor Eberron) Warlock, Paladin, Psionic and Shadow classes must also go, since they don't fit. This completely screw over 99% of 4th edition. *maniacal laugh*
#19 Dragonhelm Apr 26, 2010 15:48:59	The first thing to remember is that not all races or class fit in Dragonlance. Dragonborn, Tiefling, Goliath, Orcs, Halflings have to go. Halflngs would be replaced with kender, and orcs don't exist in Krynn.  But why the rest?  Dragonborn could be second-generation draconians.  Tieflings already exist (see Price of Courage).  Goliaths could work too, though they might compete with ogres for space. Warlock, Paladin, Psionic and Shadow classes must also go, since they don't fit. Paladins exist in Dragonlance.  In 4e, they are a great foundation for the Knights of the Sword.  Paladine has paladins serving as Bright Wardens.  A minotaur paladin exists in Taladas.  Warlock is a tougher fit, but it could be done.  Psionics could work as mysticism, particularly since many of the mystic spheres of SAGA were psionic in flavor (mentalism, meditation, channeling, and sensitivity in particular).  I'm working up something on that now, in fact. Shadow would be more difficult.  We don't know enough about it as of yet to make that call.
#20 raikirah Jul 23, 2010 4:20:43	The "sling" end of a hoopak is exactly a slingshot. Having owned quite a few in my youth, including home-made and store baught ones. I can tell yah, they are pretty short range weapons. I could easily see a hoopak/shlingshot having higher damage than a sling, but also having a lot shorter range. And I can tell you from a physics standpoint that a sling will trump a slingshot damage-wise every time.  This is due to the addition of centrifugal force to the tension action of the sling material.  In order to compensate for this, one would nearly have to create a much larger slingshot, with a much thicker band of band of material with a much higher tension rate. Instead, I present the following: Hoopak Staff Superior two-handed melee weapon Damage: 1d8 Proficient: +3 Weight: 4 lb. Originally of kender make, this weapon has a sling at one end (dealing d6 damage with a range of 10/20) in addition to functioning as a quarterstaff (dealing d8 damage). Properties: Defensive Stout Load Free Small Group: Staff Kender Weapon Training Prereq: Kender race Benefit:  You gain proficiency and a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with the hoopak and dagger. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level.
#21 chislev Aug 12, 2010 0:16:50	Has anyone thought about using the new 4E Darksun 'themes' mechanic for Dragonlance? I think its very possible to see a fighter class themed as a Knight of Solamnia, or a sorcerer themed as a Conclave wizard.
#22 gwydion9 Aug 27, 2010 18:49:06	Tinker Gnomes. Yeah, tinker gnomes... uhm... I guess we'd have to make a new race to cover them, as they are somewhat anti-magic... yeah... We could just say the race was all but destroyed and the 4E gnomes come from the same realm as the Eladrin. Purists will probably hate this, but if it were me, I'd re-imagine tinker gnomes as artificiers.  This gives gnomes a cool magical niche to fill in DL that is viable as a PC class.You could houserule their racial stats so their secondary stat could be charisma or wisdom, which would allow them to make very good summoning and control artificiers.   It also means they would not be shoehorned into comic relief by default as bumbling gadgeteers no one has to take seriously.   Players could still play them that way if they wanted to, of course, but they wouldn't have to.  You could also have a lot of fun envisioning how the Order of High Sorcery would react to artificier magic:  are they hostile to it?  Do they not see it as arcane magic at all, and ignore it?  Or do they accept artificiers into their ranks? I kind of like the idea of dragonborn being "redeemed" draconians...perhaps the clerics of paladine or someone else have managed to create a ritual or spell that severs the draconian's connection to the dark queen, resulting in a revocation of their death abilities and a partial recovery of their breath weapon.  It would give dragonborn a built-in RP schtick:  they travel around trying to capture and free other draconicans from the dark queens control, and fight her servants.  They could be staunch allies of the good dragons and work with them to recover the rest of the good dragon eggs.
#23 Dragonhelm Sep 01, 2010 12:39:26	Has anyone thought about using the new 4E Darksun 'themes' mechanic for Dragonlance? I think its very possible to see a fighter class themed as a Knight of Solamnia, or a sorcerer themed as a Conclave wizard. We've talked quite a bit about using themes for DL over at DragonlanceForums.com.  Some things work better than others for themes. A couple of really good examples come from some of the 3.5 classes - the noble and the mariner.  You wouldn't want a Conclave Wizard theme, though.  Themes are broad and cover any type of class.  The WoHS are arcane only, and arguably wizards only.  Sorcerers tap into Wyldling magic/Wild Sorcery to fuel their spells, not the moons.
#24 Dragonhelm Sep 01, 2010 12:52:32	Purists will probably hate this, but if it were me, I'd re-imagine tinker gnomes as artificiers.  This gives gnomes a cool magical niche to fill in DL that is viable as a PC class. I'm probably more of a purist, but I've used the artificer to represent a tinker gnome in the past.  It worked really well. You could houserule their racial stats so their secondary stat could be charisma or wisdom, which would allow them to make very good summoning and control artificiers.   Tinker gnomes are not known for their wisdom.  If they were, they wouldn't be building overly-large mechanical devices that overdo the redundancies.  ;) You could also have a lot of fun envisioning how the Order of High Sorcery would react to artificier magic:  are they hostile to it?  Do they not see it as arcane magic at all, and ignore it?  Or do they accept artificiers into their ranks? One of the Realms of Sorcery for sorcerers in prior editions is Enhancement (Enchantment in SAGA).  It's the magic of imbuing magic items with sorcerous power.  I envision artificers as being the 4e equivalent of that. I kind of like the idea of dragonborn being "redeemed" draconians...perhaps the clerics of paladine or someone else have managed to create a ritual or spell that severs the draconian's connection to the dark queen, resulting in a revocation of their death abilities and a partial recovery of their breath weapon.  Or better still, use dragonborn to represent noble draconians, as described in the 3.5 products.  They're chromatic draconians.  Towards the end of the War of the Lance, chromatic dragon eggs were used to create draconians.  The Balance was kept, though, as they came out as good draconians instead of evil.  Likewise, we've discussed the idea of dragonborn being second-generation draconians.  Maybe the children of draconians don't explode and are a viable race.  There are lots of possibilities for DL in 4e.  I look at it all through a historical perspective, but I'm sure WotC would land up retconning some of this.  I'm a little uncertain on the future of the setting, but I have hopes that people who love it will shape its future.
#25 totendal Dec 07, 2010 21:30:39	Kenders would also get an encounter power "Taunt" that would do something like enrage the target. The kender would be marked until the end of the target's next turn, but he would be -4 to hit the kender. That sounds right to me. At the most all I'd do for the elves is MAYBE use eladrin stats for the Silvanesti & elven stats for the Qualinesti. I'd probably drop the eladrins fey step ability. What I'd most likely end up doing though is simply using elven stats for both factions & highlighting the differences between them through descriptions/RP. Drow? Sorry, there are no Drow in Krynn. Just like there's no orcs etc. Halflings? They've already been re-flavored. They're called Kender. They're imune to fear, wear shoes, etc. I guess you could use dragonborn as some form of draconian. Especially if you intend to allow them as PC a race (afterall, turning to stone, exploding, etc when they hit 0hp might not be much fun for a player). But for NPCs/monsters, why not just open the DMG & make up a true 4e draconian instead? The hoopak? It's simply a staff/sling - use as either, apply the prof. bonus/damage/range/etc as per whatever it's being used as at the moment.
#26 totendal Dec 07, 2010 21:37:28	Oh, and I like the idea someone added about gnomes being artificers. The introduction of that class in DL is great. That they were from the fey wild originally is no big deal because the history of Krynn is ancient. It could have happened a millennia ago. Same with the Silvanesti as Eladrin. The Qualinesti could have come from the fey wild much earlier and adapted to the new world where the Silvanesti clung to their old ways. 4E is pretty much great for whatever world because it is easy to adapt. I hope that WotC puts out DL source books for 4E but if not, it's easy to alter. What's the big deal about Dragonborn? A player could be the only one of its kind- a type of draconian or perhaps sent by the gods or good dragons or a million other reasons a good DM could come up with. Wish I was playing in a DL campaign!
#27 dangerabe Dec 09, 2010 13:55:56	Dragonborn aren't draconians. The Bakali should be the Dragonborn. The Bakali were a race of lizardmen that served the dragons during the First Age. Now live on Taladas.  The simple solution for dragonborn in Krynn is to say that the Bakali were always Dragonborn and keep the Dragonborn unrelated to draconians. Bakali = Dragonborn like how Kender = Halfling