Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 borris Apr 23, 2009 22:22:47	I'm trying to figure out. The only things books and timelines tell me is that one day in the Age of Dreams (around 3000 PC), they came on Ansalon by boat from beyond the eastern sea. But where do they come from? Taladas? And what are they exactly? Are they one of the Greygem races? Most likely. If so, are they descended from chaocized ogres? Humans? Bulls? And while we're at it, what about centaurs and goblinoids? I'm assuming goblinoids are one of the ogre subraces, but I've never seen a creation myth for any of those races (minotaurs, centaurs, and goblins).
#2 Arawn76 Apr 24, 2009 6:17:09	Greygem touched Ogres if I recall correctly.
#3 Marcus_Majarra Apr 24, 2009 13:57:54	That's correct: minotaurs arose from stubborn ogres
#4 LordMorbien Apr 24, 2009 16:55:05	The minotaurs are a Graygem race, first transformed in Taladas (though the minotaurs insist that it was Sargas who transformed certain worthy ogres into minotaurs). The origin of the goblins is a little hazier; most assume they are also a Graygem race, but there are earlier stories of certain high ogres breeding a new slave race from the weakest ogres and elves (hotly contested by goblins and elves) while others indicate that the ogre race was already beginning to splinter into other sub races before the Graygem passed through their lands. The three major goblin races - - hobgoblins, goblins and bugbears - - have been in their current forms since the Age of Dreams. Centaurs are also widely believed to be a Graygem race, transformed from several tribes of horse-riding nomads.
#5 borris Apr 25, 2009 4:24:50	Thanks for the answers. It wasn't really important, but that had me bugging me for days. Regarding goblinoids, I doubt they're descended from the paring of ogres and humans. DragonLance has a fair number of half-ogres, and they're not described as looking anything like goblins. Humans and Irda, though? Maybe it would explain it. Irda and Elves? Even less likely, in my opinion. Ogres stuck to the hills and mountains in the Age of Dreams, along with their human slaves, while elves stayed in their forests. The two races really didn't have much to do with each other at the time. As for centaur, I also had the theory that they'd been created by the Greygem from horse-riding humans, but I was hoping for something more official than just pure speculation. I'm not sure they would be from human nomads, though. The Greygem magic had to be done long ago, likely at the start of the Age of Dreams. And we know the first humans to discover horsemanship were the soon-to-be-civilized human barbarians in the plains of Ergoth. Even now, centaurs are mostly found around Abanasinia, and the Abanasinia forests were right on the border of the Empire of Ergoth. Plus it might explain the old Shakespearean English common the centaurs use. It's not really evidence, but I think it's more interesting this way.
#6 Chirp Apr 25, 2009 10:12:41	I know I'm no authority on the setting. But according to the detail ogre history I have in my Rise of the Titans pre-made adventure. Goblinkin came from ogres, but the ogres refuse to admit it. the same way they refuse to admit that the Irda(sp?) are very close to what the ogres used to be before they were cursed by the evil goddess (can't remember her name right now).
#7 LordMorbien Apr 25, 2009 12:19:28	Regarding goblinoids, I doubt they're descended from the paring of ogres and humans. DragonLance has a fair number of half-ogres, and they're not described as looking anything like goblins. Humans and Irda, though? Maybe it would explain it. Irda and Elves? Even less likely, in my opinion. Ogres stuck to the hills and mountains in the Age of Dreams, along with their human slaves, while elves stayed in their forests. The two races really didn't have much to do with each other at the time. As for centaur, I also had the theory that they'd been created by the Greygem from horse-riding humans, but I was hoping for something more official than just pure speculation. I'm not sure they would be from human nomads, though. The Greygem magic had to be done long ago, likely at the start of the Age of Dreams. And we know the first humans to discover horsemanship were the soon-to-be-civilized human barbarians in the plains of Ergoth. Even now, centaurs are mostly found around Abanasinia, and the Abanasinia forests were right on the border of the Empire of Ergoth. Plus it might explain the old Shakespearean English common the centaurs use. It's not really evidence, but I think it's more interesting this way. Well, ogres are notorious for their mutability, producing ogres, ogre mages, hags and hill giants from the same stock; supposedly a side effect of the curse that transformed the high ogres into the current hulking brutes. I lean toward the idea of the goblin races starting as mutations; the Graygem simply sped up the process. As for centaurs, the story about the centaurs is just the commonly accepted theory - - the Graygem is just a useful explanation for so much that is strange and aberrant in Ansalon. *g* According to 'Races of Ansalon', the centaurs lived in northern Silvanesti until the elves declared war and scattered them across the continent and into Abanasinia, Goodlund and Endscape.
#8 David Apr 28, 2009 8:33:35	You see, when a daddy-minotaur loves a mommy-minotaur very much...
#9 underdark_tourist May 07, 2009 9:01:58	You see, when a daddy-minotaur loves a mommy-minotaur very much... and [/thread]