1) Sorcerers are stated out in PHB 2 or 3 (depending on when the book is released) and the Gray Robes keep on trucking as normal.
2) As primal sorcery is "stripped" from the land the Gray Robes return to stealing their magic from all three of the moons and taking the Wizard class.
3) As primal sorcery is "stripped" from the land the Gray Robes make pacts or to regain their power and take the Warlock class.
So what are your thoughts on the matter?
Side Note: I actually hope they handle the Dragonlance book like they did the Saga Star Wars book: Detail the most popular Ages and give enough material to play in them with enough general material to wing the other Ages.
With sorcerers not being in the PHB 1 it leads me three possible speculations
You mean that the Sorcerer won't be in PHB 1, D&D 4th?
I'm not up to date with rumorology nor actual facts, but the more I see about 4th, the less I like it...
1) Sorcerers are stated out in PHB 2 or 3 (depending on when the book is released) and the Gray Robes keep on trucking as normal.
Whichwould mean a delay of 2-3 years for a possible DragonLance Campaign Setting, even under Margaret Weiss Productions. SHAME!
2) As primal sorcery is "stripped" from the land the Gray Robes return to stealing their magic from all three of the moons and taking the Wizard class.
3) As primal sorcery is "stripped" from the land the Gray Robes make pacts or to regain their power and take the Warlock class.
No, no more changes, please... the world is still adapting to the return of the gods... leave it as it is and let it have a natural evolution.
You forget the fourth option, and the one I think it should be: a new Sorcerer (and Mystic) class that is true to the original DL version: Sorcerers cannot affect living matter and Mystics affect only living matter. With the issue of wood...
(See the SAGA 5th Age books)
You mean that the Sorcerer won't be in PHB 1, D&D 4th?
I'm not up to date with rumorology nor actual facts, but the more I see about 4th, the less I like it...
Correct the 8 base Classes in the First PHB are:
Paladin
Fighter
Ranger
Rougue
Cleric
Warlord
Wizard
Warlock
Whichwould mean a delay of 2-3 years for a possible DragonLance Campaign Setting, even under Margaret Weiss Productions. SHAME!
Well this was already known. WotC are only producing one campiagn setting a year, 2008 is going to be forgotten Realms. the 2-3 is there because we do not know which will get made first; Eberron or Dragonlance.
No, no more changes, please... the world is still adapting to the return of the gods... leave it as it is and let it have a natural evolution.
You forget the fourth option, and the one I think it should be: a new Sorcerer (and Mystic) class that is true to the original DL version: Sorcerers cannot affect living matter and Mystics affect only living matter. With the issue of wood...
(See the SAGA 5th Age books)
I actually have never read the books published during that time period, and never saw those gaming books. So sorcerers could not affect living matter? could they attack still or were they relegated to sundering weapons and armor?
I actually have never read the books published during that time period, and never saw those gaming books. So sorcerers could not affect living matter? could they attack still or were they relegated to sundering weapons and armor?
The game products had this distinction more than the novels did. For the most part, the sorcerers in the novels behaved a lot like wizards, only without the spellbooks and with a little nod toward the idea that they were shaping magic from the world around them.
I really couldn't stand the Fifth Age magic, because it was inconsistently presented, even in the game books, and there was clearly more to it than what was initially presented. On the other hand, there was no "sorcerer" or "mystic" class in the SAGA products; being able to use sorcery or mysticism was as likely as being able to use heavy armor and heavy weapons. A great many characters created for SAGA were able to cast some form of magic.
Cheers,
Cam
Well this was already known. WotC are only producing one campiagn setting a year, 2008 is going to be forgotten Realms. the 2-3 is there because we do not know which will get made first; Eberron or Dragonlance.
I have always had the hope that MWP would once again be allowed to make DL products...
About who'll be next, in an interview it was said (I will seek it if you want the reference) that 2008 will be Realms, 2009 Eberron and the other "lesser" campaign worlds will be given support throgh the Insider.
And this killed most of my hopes for MWP making DL... but there's always a small flame in the heart (or maybe a carrot infront of you? ;) ) that made gave me hope...
I really couldn't stand the Fifth Age magic, because it was inconsistently presented, even in the game books, and there was clearly more to it than what was initially presented.
I liked the concept, but never actually played much SAGA, so I did not have the real chance to see how it worked...
On the other hand, there was no "sorcerer" or "mystic" class in the SAGA products; being able to use sorcery or mysticism was as likely as being able to use heavy armor and heavy weapons. A great many characters created for SAGA were able to cast some form of magic.
True, as there were no classes at all in SAGA... I was expressing in D&D terms to make myself easier to understand for those who do not know the system.
I really couldn't stand the Fifth Age magic, because it was inconsistently presented, even in the game books, and there was clearly more to it than what was initially presented.
In your opinion, what was unclear about it in the game books? and in all the years i've seen you on the forums you never mentioned you hated fifth age magic.
Weldon
In your opinion, what was unclear about it in the game books? and in all the years i've seen you on the forums you never mentioned you hated fifth age magic.
Later products built on the original, and not always consistently. There is also a considerable amount of opinion among SAGA players that their sorcerers or mystics could "do anything with magic" when, in fact, they were very limited.
I prefer how we've handled the ambient magic of Krynn in 3.5, and that includes all of the explanations, background, updates, and even retcons we've made to explain it.
Cheers,
Cam
Later products built on the original, and not always consistently. There is also a considerable amount of opinion among SAGA players that their sorcerers or mystics could "do anything with magic" when, in fact, they were very limited.
I prefer how we've handled the ambient magic of Krynn in 3.5, and that includes all of the explanations, background, updates, and even retcons we've made to explain it.
Frankly, I like what you did with the background, explanations, updates, etc., but as a system, I'd rather have a point-based, more flexible, than the current spells-per-level that exists. To me, wizards/clerics should be as they are right now, Vancian as everyone has become fond of calling them lately, and sorcerers/mystics point based. And sorcerers should afect non living matter and mystics living matter. With the issue of wood ;) .
Later products built on the original, and not always consistently. There is also a considerable amount of opinion among SAGA players that their sorcerers or mystics could "do anything with magic" when, in fact, they were very limited.
Hrmmm. Interesting, since I think Sorcs and Mystics could do anything as long as the spell fits within the appropriate school, had the spell points necessary for the spell's difficulty on use. I must admit, I was a lot more liberal in it's use. A flaming sword could be a Pyromancy spell, or an enchantment spell, and if you had both schools, the difficulty would be easier. *shrug*
Weldon
So I just recently read Dragons of Summer Flame and love the flavor of the Knights of Takhisis.
Pretty cool, aren't they?
1) Sorcerers are stated out in PHB 2 or 3 (depending on when the book is released) and the Gray Robes keep on trucking as normal.
2) As primal sorcery is "stripped" from the land the Gray Robes return to stealing their magic from all three of the moons and taking the Wizard class.
3) As primal sorcery is "stripped" from the land the Gray Robes make pacts or to regain their power and take the Warlock class.
So what are your thoughts on the matter?
If you want to play a Thorn Knight pre-Age of Mortals, you're set. Just take the wizard class. If you want to play one during the Age of Mortals, you have a few choices. You can wait a year (hopefully not two!) for the sorcerer to come out. You can play the wizard class still and just call it a sorcerer, making a few flavor changes as necessary. Or you can take the warlock class, though I'm not certain how pacts would work in this era. If anything, I think pacts would work better with Takhisis.
You forget the fourth option, and the one I think it should be: a new Sorcerer (and Mystic) class that is true to the original DL version: Sorcerers cannot affect living matter and Mystics affect only living matter. With the issue of wood...
(See the SAGA 5th Age books)
That's a possibility, though that leads to option #5: Play a prior system that represents magic the way you want it. Just because 4e is the shiny new kid on the block, that doesn't mean you can't use SAGA to represent the 5th age magic (example).
I really couldn't stand the Fifth Age magic, because it was inconsistently presented, even in the game books, and there was clearly more to it than what was initially presented.
I won't comment on the mechanics since I'm not familiar with SAGA as a system, but I will say that I liked some of the flavor of Fifth Age magic. In particular, I liked the schools/realms of sorcery and the spheres of mysticism.
That being said, I did not care for certain things that made little sense to me. For example, a pyromancer couldn't set you on fire, but he could set your clothes on fire. I think I would just use class and spell choice to represent some of the themes of the schools/spheres, with the living/non-living bit being background flavor (i.e. mysticism is the magic of life, sorcery is the magic of creation/elements).
And sorry Sothus, but I'm not a fan of the wood distinction either. When you're asking if fire can burn wood or not...well, that seems kinda silly, IMO. Of course, one's mileage may vary.
Honestly, I don't think it will be a big deal to incorporate 4th Edition into Dragonlance. Very little of the RPing stuff will change, just the stats.
Exactly. Again, the key thing with Thorn Knights is that they can cast arcane spells and they're a bit militant. If you need one before the 4e sorcerer is unveiled, then just use a wizard or warlock (whichever is closest to the concept you need), multiclass with fighter, and tweak as necessary.
The Mariner and Master abilities would probably be better placed in other classes or something.
It's possible that it may just need to be folded into the rogue or fighter.
Warlocks might need a little work, but I already had them in my games as wielders of both Primal Sorcery and Mysticism, so I think that'll work out well.
I'd like to hear more about that.