Comparing Commanders

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

darkangel1979

Jan 29, 2013 8:22:04
Creature Cards
The vast majority of Commanders have 3 Creature cards in their initial hand, so we will consider that the baseline.

Aliszandras:  +1 Creature
Snig the Axe: +2 Creatures

Order Cards
Mode and median is 4 Order cards, average is 4.3. We will thus assume 4 as the baseline.

Delthrin:     -1 Order
Lokar:        -1 Order
Aliszandras:  +1 Order
Tarkon:       +1 Order
Morgana:      +1 Order
Rhynseera:    +2 Orders

Morale
Mode is 12. Median is 12.5. Average is 12.9. Baseline could be seen as either 12 or 13, I chose 12 because that means less bookkeeping.

Lokar:       -1 Morale
Aliszandras: +1 Morale
Morgana:     +2 Morale
Snig:        +2 Morale
Valnar:      +2 Morale
Drogar:      +3 Morale

Leadership
Mode is 7. Median is 7. Average is 7.3. Baseline is clearly 7.

Snig:     -1 Leadership
Delthrin: -1 Leadership
Tarkon:   +1 Leadership
Kalteros: +2 Leadership
Lokar:    +2 Leadership

"Tribal" Commanders
These Commanders have abilities that are only useful to warbands fielding a particular type of creature. If you are not fielding these creatures, you only get the following difference from a baseline commander.

Aliszandras (Spider, Drow): +1 Creature, +1 Order, +1 Morale, (+2 speed)
Kalteros (Drow): +2 Leadership, (1 Treasure = +1 Order card)
Lokar (Orc): -1 Order, -1 Morale, +2 Leadership, (initial deploy on Treasure)
Morgana (Undead): +1 Order, +2 Morale, (tap, -1 Morale: prevent 10)
Valnar (Adventurer): +2 Morale, (Standard: +Move)

"Generic" Commanders
While these Commanders might have abilities that synergize better with certain creature types, their abilities are available to all warbands.

Snig the Axe: +2 Creatures, +2 Morale, -1 Leadership, deploy in Refresh.
Delthrin: -1 Order, -1 Leadership, gains 1 Leadership per kill
Tarkon: +1 Order, +1 Leadership, cowering costs +1.
Rhynseera: +2 Order, can discard 1 Order per turn to draw 1.
Drogar: +3 Morale, ignore difficult terrain

This should allow better comparison for your Commander selection. For example we can see that Delthrin is all penalty except for his ability, so if you compare to other commanders you should consider the cost of that ability. Kalteros for instance starts at +2 Leadership with no ability in a non-Drow warband, while Delthrin has -1 Leadership and -1 Order, which means that for Delthrin to be better you need to gain at least 4 Leadership with his ability during your game and value 1 Leadership as worth more than 1 Order card. At Morale 12 or so on average, you would need to kill 4 creatures with average level < 3, which basically means this is only useful as an anti-swarm metagame choice.

Similarly, the new Orc commander Lokar is by definition going to be less good than Kalteros unless you play an Orc warband and you value this initial deployment as worth more than 1 Order card and 1 Treasure. I can see some warband designs where that might be the case, for instance if you are an aggressive warband using Orc Druids and you have enough Beasts to make him worthwhile without reducing the number of Orcs too much that the ability is inconsistent.

And Valnar is going to be inferior to Drogar in every warband except Adventurers, and even then I would seriously consider Drogar, as his ability is similar and doesn't cost a Standard action and isn't limited to a subset of your warband. Depending on your choice of tiles, Drogar might just be better. OTOH, depending on how much you value Order cards, Morgana might be superior to Drogar even in a random warband. 
#2

hautamaki

Jan 29, 2013 8:44:24
Good analysis, where do you get the info on the Orc leaders?
#3

darkangel1979

Jan 29, 2013 9:25:57
Good analysis, where do you get the info on the Orc leaders?



www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1549776/dung...
#4

hautamaki

Jan 29, 2013 10:50:44
Cool, thanks!
#5

mrfaloon

Jan 31, 2013 15:02:51
Like it, but Morgana is prevent 20, rather than prevent 10.

Suspect that 'cretaures you control ignore difficult terrain' will see quite some use.

There are two things I'd mention though...

A Kalteros based 2/3rds Drow deck I played last week drew a 30 order deck dry in around 6 turns.

Sometimes that 1 extra (or different) order card can start a positive feedback loop that acquires a critical mass.

The week before I discarded 1 killing blow with Rhynseera, drew a behind enemy lines, and that meant I won that turn.

If it had been a close game that 1 card could have made the difference between winning and losing.

I also disagree about you saying Delthrin is only a benefit vs. weenie decks.

You start with 6 Ld, which is enough for a Horned Devil, or an Elf Archer to delpoy a Dragon Knight B.E.L.

Obviously Vorpal Blade may change this, but currently a Horned Devil with a Short Sword can ramp up your Ld even against Dragon Knights.

And that just gets you more Horned devils, or course.

Again, there are positive feedback loops
#6

darkangel1979

Jan 31, 2013 17:23:11
I also disagree about you saying Delthrin is only a benefit vs. weenie decks.

You start with 6 Ld, which is enough for a Horned Devil, or an Elf Archer to delpoy a Dragon Knight B.E.L.



If you don't count the ability of either, he's strictly worse than Kalteros. In fact, if you discount abilities, he's pretty much strictly worse than every other Commander, though that doesn't affect the analysis one bit. Even if you say "If I make X Leadership with him, he's better than this other Commander that isn't Kalteros", you can easily make the argument that even if it was so, Kalteros is strictly better than him for any X <= 3 (so if Delthrin somehow was proven better than another Commander with X <= 3, Kalteros would still be a better choice, and that's in a warband with exactly 0 drow). There is no good or bad commanders... there is the best commander (for the warband) and the rest.

So. You have to make 4 Leadership out of his ability, you have to value +1 Leadership higher than +1 Order card, and you have to be in a warband where Kalteros doesn't benefit from his ability. And you need to have that Leadership while it is still relevant to the game. Until you've scored that 4th Leadership point, your warband would have been better with Kalteros as the commander. So the game has to continue a significant amount of time after you've scored that 4th Leadership point so that the improvement on your late game is worth the hit you take on the early game.