First: I love Dungeon Command and have played about a million games since my store got our demo copies in, and I'm really looking forward to running the game day demos. Thanks for the awesome work.
Ok, a bunch of rules questions!
1. Cowering says it prevents all damage and "any other effects". Does this include the "damage can't be prevented" effect on Piercing Strike? Basically, can I cower if my opponent uses Piercing Strike (or some future "damage can't be prevented" effect)?
2. I initially assumed, due to my MTG background, that only Immediate actions and similar creature abilities could be added to a non-empty stack (ie, as a response). But looking over the rules, it seems like that isn't the case, and that I could also add Minor actions (taken "at any time during its activation") or maybe even standards or moves to an ongoing stack. Obviously all the other requirements need to be met, like it being that creature's activation and so forth, but in general, what actions can I take as part of an ongoing stack?
The situation that brought this one up: I'm activating my Drider and put Faerie Fire on my opponent's Dwarf Cleric, which resolves. Then I tap the Drider and play Shadowy Ambush, attempting to hit the Dwarf for a lethal 60. My opponent reasonably responds by using the Cleric's ability, targeting Faerie Fire to attempt to reduce the damage by 10. Can I respond with Quick Jab? Similarly, could I have used Quick Jab first and responded with a standard action attack to a similar attempt? If I attack an opponent and they respond with a potentially lethal Riposte, could I use my move for the turn to move out of melee range, or use Into The Fray to escape?
3. When do priority stops actually happen in Dungeon Command? For example, is there an equivalent of the end step priority window in Magic? The rulebook is pretty clear that you can respond to all discrete actions during the activation phase, but what about other phases? It seems like triggers can happen any time (like the Shadow Stalker power on the Shadow Mastiff that's used as the rulebook's example) but can you add immediate abilities to the stack then?
Again, the situation that caused the question: My opponent has an injured creature. During her Deploy phase, she places a Dwarf Cleric adjacent to the injured creature. Is there a priority stop in the Deploy phase such that she can activate the Cleric, so that she can untap it in her Cleanup phase?
That's it for now. Sorry the questions are a bit techincal, we're old Magic hands so we tend to have that kind of approach. Thanks again for the awesome game!
First: I love Dungeon Command and have played about a million games since my store got our demo copies in, and I'm really looking forward to running the game day demos. Thanks for the awesome work.
Ok, a bunch of rules questions!
1. Cowering says it prevents all damage and "any other effects". Does this include the "damage can't be prevented" effect on Piercing Strike? Basically, can I cower if my opponent uses Piercing Strike (or some future "damage can't be prevented" effect)?
No. Preventing damage by cowering would prevent such things as: Attaching Deep Wound to the target. If the damage is prevented, the card doesn't attach. If a card says the damage can't be prevented, you can't prevent it through any means. The only way to keep the damage from landing would be to kill the attacking creature before the attack clears the stack. 2. I initially assumed, due to my MTG background, that only Immediate actions and similar creature abilities could be added to a non-empty stack (ie, as a response). But looking over the rules, it seems like that isn't the case, and that I could also add Minor actions (taken "at any time during its activation") or maybe even standards or moves to an ongoing stack. Obviously all the other requirements need to be met, like it being that creature's activation and so forth, but in general, what actions can I take as part of an ongoing stack?
All actions technically create their own stacks for a split second. Note that you can't interrupt the middle of an action to create a new stack. The action completes off the stack and moves on. For example, you can't play a minor action mid-move, nor can an opponent play an immediate action card in the middle of your move. They either interrupt the start of the move action or play their immediate after you are done moving. The situation that brought this one up: I'm activating my Drider and put Faerie Fire on my opponent's Dwarf Cleric, which resolves. Then I tap the Drider and play Shadowy Ambush, attempting to hit the Dwarf for a lethal 60. My opponent reasonably responds by using the Cleric's ability, targeting Faerie Fire to attempt to reduce the damage by 10. Can I respond with Quick Jab?
You cannot respond with Quick Jab. It is not played at immediate speed. It cannot interrupt things. Similarly, could I have used Quick Jab first and responded with a standard action attack to a similar attempt? If I attack an opponent and they respond with a potentially lethal Riposte, could I use my move for the turn to move out of melee range, or use Into The Fray to escape?
You can't use standards to interrupt things on the stack. Only immediate cards. 3. When do priority stops actually happen in Dungeon Command? For example, is there an equivalent of the end step priority window in Magic? The rulebook is pretty clear that you can respond to all discrete actions during the activation phase, but what about other phases? It seems like triggers can happen any time (like the Shadow Stalker power on the Shadow Mastiff that's used as the rulebook's example) but can you add immediate abilities to the stack then?
You can play immediate cards at any point. Normally it is in reaction to an action, but at any point you could do it. Again, the situation that caused the question: My opponent has an injured creature. During her Deploy phase, she places a Dwarf Cleric adjacent to the injured creature. Is there a priority stop in the Deploy phase such that she can activate the Cleric, so that she can untap it in her Cleanup phase?
Yes, the cleric could deploy and immediately tap to heal an adjacent creature, then untap during your cleanup phase. That's it for now. Sorry the questions are a bit techincal, we're old Magic hands so we tend to have that kind of approach. Thanks again for the awesome game!
No problem! Glad you're enjoying it!
Awesome, thanks for the quick replies.
Also, on another post, someone else said that the reduction in movement to 1 square when starting adjacent to an enemy creature only applies for the actual movement phase but any order card that allows for additional movement is exempt from this restriction. Is this true? Also, what does "priority stop" mean? (if this is important to the answer)
Found the link to the post:
boardgamegeek.com/thread/830719/burrow-a...
I'm surprised that the cleric would be able to use his heal ability when deployed since the activation phase is over. What is special about the cleric that his ability is allowed but others aren't? I'm assuming you can't activate freshly deployed creatures (move, play order cards, use creature powers, take other actions. p. 8 of rulebook).
Also, on another post, someone else said that the reduction in movement to 1 square when starting adjacent to an enemy creature only applies for the actual movement phase but any order card that allows for additional movement is exempt from this restriction. Is this true? Also, what does "priority stop" mean? (if this is important to the answer)
Found the link to the post:
boardgamegeek.com/thread/830719/burrow-a...
The Cleric is the only figure so far with a Tap ability that functions as an Immediate action. The Umber Hulk also has a Tap ability, but it specifically says to play it as a standard. As per the rules, unless this statement otherwise is on the card, you can play any creature Tap ability as an Immediate action, and Immediate actions can be done outside your activation. This means you can use the Cleric's ability once on your turn and once on your opponent's turn; thus far it seems to be the most powerful single figure in the game. What was less clear was whether you could use it once it was deployed or if you could only use Immediate actions during some figure or other's activation; the answer established that you can use it any time, so you can use it in the Deploy phase immediately after placing the model.
For the second: I think I made that BGG response, which I guess was a bit misleading? My understanding is that while you are next to an enemy figure, your Speed stat is 1, whatever it would otherwise be. This means if you start any kind of move that relies on your speed (normal move or Into the Fray or what have you) while next to an enemy, you can only move 1. On the other hand, some cards say "move X" or "shift X", like Spring Attack which says Shift 6, attack, shift 6. In these cases, your speed stat being 1 doesn't matter. You can also step back one (assuming that gets you clear), then use another action that calls on your speed, since it isn't 1 once you stop being next to an enemy. For example, if my creature is next to an enemy, I can use the normal move (speed 1), step back one to where I'm clear, then play Into the Fray as a minor (move your speed) and since I'm no longer next to an enemy, I get the creature's full speed.
Obviously I'm not an official source but that's my understanding
First question regards moving. During its activation can a creature move its speed then play a card that involves the creature shifting or sliding? For example can “Stalk” be played to move an additional 6 squares after the creature has moved its normal speed? Can the creature take a normal move after it has played “Stalk”? Or does moving once during its activation really mean move once regardless of how?
How does the card “Into the Fray” play? This one has us scratching our head.
On page 13 under the “Distance and Counting” side bar, first bullet says “The acting creature must have a line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified.” So must a creature have a line of sight to the hex it wishes to target with the “Fireball” card? Would this also apply to playing “Fire Trap”?
When it comes to cowering can you use damage reducing cards to first reduce the amount of damage and then decide to cower? For example can you play “Close Call” to prevent 40 damage from a 50 damage attack then cower the remaining 10 damage?
Thanks to the team that put this game together. By all accounts Dungeon Command is off to a good start and we're looking forward to the next expansions.
First question regards moving. During its activation can a creature move its speed then play a card that involves the creature shifting or sliding? For example can “Stalk” be played to move an additional 6 squares after the creature has moved its normal speed? Can the creature take a normal move after it has played “Stalk”? Or does moving once during its activation really mean move once regardless of how?
Yes. Yes. Yes. No.
In more detail, the Activation phase has the following steps, done in any order:
- Move up to its Speed.
- Play any number of minor action Order cards or use creature powers that do not require a tap.
- Take one action that taps the creature (Attacking, using a standard action Order card, using a power like Confusing Gaze, picking up a treasure, etc.)
Moving is a separate thing from using an Order card. So, a creature can Move, then use an order card that includes moving. If the player is using Valnar Trueblade as his commander, he can even have his creatures use their Standard actions to move again.
How does the card “Into the Fray” play? This one has us scratching our head.
On your turn, you can play Into the Fray. It is a minor action, and the creature moves up to its speed. It still can move up to its speed if it hasn't already done the Move part of its activation.
On page 13 under the “Distance and Counting” side bar, first bullet says “The acting creature must have a line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified.” So must a creature have a line of sight to the hex it wishes to target with the “Fireball” card? Would this also apply to playing “Fire Trap”?
"The acting creature must have line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified." Since Fireball and Fire Trap do not specify that LoS is not needed, the creature using those order cards will need LoS to the target squares.
When it comes to cowering can you use damage reducing cards to first reduce the amount of damage and then decide to cower? For example can you play “Close Call” to prevent 40 damage from a 50 damage attack then cower the remaining 10 damage?
The Stack, pg. 9:
"After any action resolves, all players get another chance to respond with new actions. Any new action goes on top of the stack, and players can respond to that action as normal."
So, yes, you can negate damage with an Immediate order card, then Cower any remaining damage, since Cowering does not tap the creature.
Page 14, under Cowering, says "The Morale reduction is determined by the total damage that would be taken, evif if it exceeds the creature's Hit Points. You cannot split the damage between Hit Points and Morale..."
Do those two quotes contradict each other?
RE: "So, yes, you can negate damage with an Immediate order card, then Cower any remaining damage, since Cowering does not tap the creature."
Page 14, under Cowering, says "The Morale reduction is determined by the total damage that would be taken, evif if it exceeds the creature's Hit Points. You cannot split the damage between Hit Points and Morale..."
Do those two quotes contradict each other?
No, they do not. In the first one the damage becomes less because of the use of an immediate order card. The second one just says that any remaining damage cannot be divided between Hit Points and Morale, you either take all the remaining damage as a hit on Morale or as damage to your creature (possibly killing it and also costing Morale, but that's not really the point here).
The "total damage taken" referred to by your second quote is actually the damage remaining from what happened in the first quote.....if that makes more sense. Don't really know how else to explain it.
example: My activated creature with 10hp left attacks with Quick Jab (and is therefore untapped), enemy plays Riposte which would kill my creature. Can I play Rhynseera the Alarphon's ability to draw one order card in the hope it's one that will prevent damage? (a wild gamble, but that's not the point, the point is wether I can or not)
Yes, the cleric could deploy and immediately tap to heal an adjacent creature, then untap during your cleanup phase.
I used this to great effect (though still ultimately losing the game) in one of the demos I ran on Saturday. If my day hadn't already been totally made, this would have made it.
RE: "So, yes, you can negate damage with an Immediate order card, then Cower any remaining damage, since Cowering does not tap the creature."
Page 14, under Cowering, says "The Morale reduction is determined by the total damage that would be taken, evif if it exceeds the creature's Hit Points. You cannot split the damage between Hit Points and Morale..."
Do those two quotes contradict each other?
No, they do not. In the first one the damage becomes less because of the use of an immediate order card. The second one just says that any remaining damage cannot be divided between Hit Points and Morale, you either take all the remaining damage as a hit on Morale or as damage to your creature (possibly killing it and also costing Morale, but that's not really the point here).
The "total damage taken" referred to by your second quote is actually the damage remaining from what happened in the first quote.....if that makes more sense. Don't really know how else to explain it.
Does Cowering go onto the stack? Exactly when it goes on the stack might make a difference to the final damage calculation.
Another question: Can a Commander's ability be used as an "action" in a stack?
example: My activated creature with 10hp left attacks with Quick Jab (and is therefore untapped), enemy plays Riposte which would kill my creature. Can I play Rhynseera the Alarphon's ability to draw one order card in the hope it's one that will prevent damage? (a wild gamble, but that's not the point, the point is wether I can or not)
Yes, you can do that. Rhynseera's ability doesn't reference using an action like Valnar's does. As long as it is your turn, you can use her ability at any point, even if you are in the middle of resolving a stack. Its basically the same thing as sifting through your hand looking to see if you have a response.
1) On starting deployment, can I use the special rules that some cards provide? That is, can I deploy on a Magic Circle or even inside my opponents deployment zone (Shadow Mastiff). I guess I could because of the "Exception Based Game" remark in the rulebook, but would like to know for sure.
2) The other question is on Treasure Chest markers. According to the rulebook I need only bring enough Treasure Chest markers to cover treasure squares on my own tiles. Does this mean every player places markers on their own tiles? And if so, what's to stop me from only bringing markers with the 3 on them. I can't find anything in the rules prohibiting it. So far in friendly games I've played we've always used one box's markers so that there always were randomly divided 1,1,2,2,3,3 treasure chest markers. Also in the rulebook on page 5 it says "Once all tiles are placed, mix up the Treasure Chest markers and place one on each square on the battlefield, with the number side down" so...do I mix up the Treasure Chest markers I alone brought or do I mix them with my opponents. Either way would seem kinda silly when people are allowed to bring just the "3" number markers doesn't it? Every treasure square would just have three treasure on it bypassing the need for mixing. I'd be happy if someone could clarify for me.
The other question is on Treasure Chest markers. According to the rulebook I need only bring enough Treasure Chest markers to cover treasure squares on my own tiles. Does this mean every player places markers on their own tiles? And if so, what's to stop me from only bringing markers with the 3 on them.
For this one, I'd generally go with the tournament rules -- 1 set of (1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3) shared between the players, randomly assigned to the available treasure squares.
Otherwise, I'd say each player brings a full set, randomly picks as many as are necessary for the tiles they brought, and then each place on your own half (making sure to grab back just your treasure tokens at the end of the game).
If you don't mind, I'll take a stab at these, though Chris may come by and tell me that I'm wrong.First question regards moving. During its activation can a creature move its speed then play a card that involves the creature shifting or sliding? For example can “Stalk” be played to move an additional 6 squares after the creature has moved its normal speed? Can the creature take a normal move after it has played “Stalk”? Or does moving once during its activation really mean move once regardless of how?
Yes. Yes. Yes. No.
In more detail, the Activation phase has the following steps, done in any order:
- Move up to its Speed.
- Play any number of minor action Order cards or use creature powers that do not require a tap.
- Take one action that taps the creature (Attacking, using a standard action Order card, using a power like Confusing Gaze, picking up a treasure, etc.)
Moving is a separate thing from using an Order card. So, a creature can Move, then use an order card that includes moving. If the player is using Valnar Trueblade as his commander, he can even have his creatures use their Standard actions to move again.How does the card “Into the Fray” play? This one has us scratching our head.
On your turn, you can play Into the Fray. It is a minor action, and the creature moves up to its speed. It still can move up to its speed if it hasn't already done the Move part of its activation.On page 13 under the “Distance and Counting” side bar, first bullet says “The acting creature must have a line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified.” So must a creature have a line of sight to the hex it wishes to target with the “Fireball” card? Would this also apply to playing “Fire Trap”?
"The acting creature must have line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified." Since Fireball and Fire Trap do not specify that LoS is not needed, the creature using those order cards will need LoS to the target squares.When it comes to cowering can you use damage reducing cards to first reduce the amount of damage and then decide to cower? For example can you play “Close Call” to prevent 40 damage from a 50 damage attack then cower the remaining 10 damage?
The Stack, pg. 9:
"After any action resolves, all players get another chance to respond with new actions. Any new action goes on top of the stack, and players can respond to that action as normal."
So, yes, you can negate damage with an Immediate order card, then Cower any remaining damage, since Cowering does not tap the creature.
Looks like these answers stand due to no response to the contrary.
Two more questions (thanks for clearing things up so far Chris (in this and other threads), excellent job):
1) On starting deployment, can I use the special rules that some cards provide? That is, can I deploy on a Magic Circle or even inside my opponents deployment zone (Shadow Mastiff). I guess I could because of the "Exception Based Game" remark in the rulebook, but would like to know for sure.
Yes. You can use deployment based powers even on starting deployment.
2) The other question is on Treasure Chest markers. According to the rulebook I need only bring enough Treasure Chest markers to cover treasure squares on my own tiles. Does this mean every player places markers on their own tiles? And if so, what's to stop me from only bringing markers with the 3 on them. I can't find anything in the rules prohibiting it. So far in friendly games I've played we've always used one box's markers so that there always were randomly divided 1,1,2,2,3,3 treasure chest markers. Also in the rulebook on page 5 it says "Once all tiles are placed, mix up the Treasure Chest markers and place one on each square on the battlefield, with the number side down" so...do I mix up the Treasure Chest markers I alone brought or do I mix them with my opponents. Either way would seem kinda silly when people are allowed to bring just the "3" number markers doesn't it? Every treasure square would just have three treasure on it bypassing the need for mixing. I'd be happy if someone could clarify for me.
We suggest 1,1,2,2,3,3 randomized and placed throughout the entire map.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />We suggest 1,1,2,2,3,3 randomized and placed throughout the entire map.
This might need to be standardized for tournament purposes... 1 is closest to your start area, 2 is next closest, 3 is 3rd closest. Otherwise a player could have an significant unfair advantage over another player, which sours the tournament experience.
Two more questions (thanks for clearing things up so far Chris (in this and other threads), excellent job):
1) On starting deployment, can I use the special rules that some cards provide? That is, can I deploy on a Magic Circle or even inside my opponents deployment zone (Shadow Mastiff). I guess I could because of the "Exception Based Game" remark in the rulebook, but would like to know for sure.
Yes. You can use deployment based powers even on starting deployment.
What about deployment powers from other deployed creatures, like the Drow Priestess? Could I deploy her, then deploy a spider outside of start zone using her summon spider ability?
What about deployment powers from other deployed creatures, like the Drow Priestess? Could I deploy her, then deploy a spider outside of start zone using her summon spider ability?
Yes.
The situation that brought this one up: I'm activating my Drider and put Faerie Fire on my opponent's Dwarf Cleric, which resolves. Then I tap the Drider and play Shadowy Ambush, attempting to hit the Dwarf for a lethal 60. My opponent reasonably responds by using the Cleric's ability, targeting Faerie Fire to attempt to reduce the damage by 10. Can I respond with Quick Jab?
You cannot respond with Quick Jab. It is not played at immediate speed. It cannot interrupt things.Similarly, could I have used Quick Jab first and responded with a standard action attack to a similar attempt? If I attack an opponent and they respond with a potentially lethal Riposte, could I use my move for the turn to move out of melee range, or use Into The Fray to escape?
You can't use standards to interrupt things on the stack. Only immediate cards.
Chris,
I was a little surprised to see this, as my reading of the rules matched the OP. I checked them again and found the area that probably led to confusion.
The first paragraph under The Stack reads:
"... Each player, including you, gets a chance to respond to it with further actions. In almost all cases, a response is an immediate action." (Emphasis from the rules, not my own.)
This seems to suggest that standard or minor actions could be used to respond to the stack, but that it's an uncommon occurence as only the acting model can perform those actions during the current activation. Combined with the description of minor actions on page 12, and the OP's logic is pretty clear.
If only immediate actions can be used to respond, it might help to flag the quoted paragraph for revision in any further iterations of the DC rules.
Thanks!
Shawn
In more detail, the Activation phase has the following steps, done in any order:
- Move up to its Speed.
- Play any number of minor action Order cards or use creature powers that do not require a tap.
- Take one action that taps the creature (Attacking, using a standard action Order card, using a power like Confusing Gaze, picking up a treasure, etc.)
First off, I am not a Magic player, so the idea of tapping is new to me. I find the bold statement above quite confusing. Where in the rules is a tapping action clarified? I see the definition of "tap". I also see the explanation that there is a symbol that indicates that a specific action causes a tap. What seems missing is a general or a specific statement about what taps, other than a standard action.
The text of the activate phase seems to indicate that I can move, play order cards and use creature powers in any order. What clarifies that I can't use the creature power attack after I play a standard action?
The only place I can find any text that says using a creature power to attack can't happen after playing a standard order card is this thread.
In fact, I find the whole tapping requirement so confusing that the game is getting unplayable without a giant string of house rules.
Help me out, please.
Since standard action Order cards and normal attacks are both standard actions, you can't use both in the same turn unless you can untap the creature somehow (most likely using a different Order card).
Same thing means you can't have the same creature use multiple immediate actions in the same turn since it will already be tapped (unless the immediate action you use states that the creature is untapped after using the immediate action).
This is the reason why you untap twice in the same turn (Refresh and Cleanup). This allows you to use both standard actions on your own turn and immediate actions on your opponent's turn.
So guys please give me a hand, if i do a standard act (in that case a atack)... if i use a minor card to untap this creature, can i atack again in the same round using that same creature like some magic cards ? Like double hit ? What happening was I use my mage to cast a fireball then i untap him use a minor card, then i atack with him again, using this time his normal range atack...
And there is some order cards that i can use to Increase the dmg of my normal standart atack right ? Like i hit and use a standard order card to bust the dmg. When u say i cant use a standad act order + a normal atack u are talking about a card like Fireball right ?
and when i summon a new creature is like magic sickness at the first turn cant atack or do movents with the difference here we can use the tap powers like the cleric ?
sorry about the badspelling
Hi evebody thanks so far for all infos, alread help me a lot. I just get my first set today and play some rounds. Really enjoy a lot all the magic felling + D&D !
So guys please give me a hand, if i do a standard act (in that case a atack)... if i use a minor card to untap this creature, can i atack again in the same round using that same creature like some magic cards ? Like double hit ? What happening was I use my mage to cast a fireball then i untap him use a minor card, then i atack with him again, using this time his normal range atack...
And there is some order cards that i can use to Increase the dmg of my normal standart atack right ? Like i hit and use a standard order card to bust the dmg. When u say i cant use a standad act order + a normal atack u are talking about a card like Fireball right ?
and when i summon a new creature is like magic sickness at the first turn cant atack or do movents with the difference here we can use the tap powers like the cleric ?
sorry about the badspelling
I don't think the term summoning sickness works for this games...
A turn has 4 stages...
Stage 2 is Activation (the stage you can attack/move).
Stage 3 is Deployment (the stage where you can play new units)
So when you deploy a new unit, you've already passed the activation stage, for this turn. Mind you if you play a card like "Behind Enemy Lines" you could deploy a unit and then move/attack with it, all in the same turn.
As for the first part of you post, each unit is allowed to Move its speed and also make 1 standard action per turn. The standard action could be attacking/playing a standard card/playing an immediate card... But once you do any of this you must tap the unit. Neverthelss, if you are able to untap it with a minor card, then you would get a second standard action.
I think i got the rest now is just play and having fun hehe
1 Deployment out of sequence, the Behind Enemy Lines card states "immediately deploy 1 adventurer creature in an ooponent's start zone."
What the card doesn't state, which one player argued at a demo, is that you need to have enough leadership available to deploy the creature...I ruled that you would still need the leadership available before you could deploy it, but you could deploy it out of the normal sequence, which would allow it to act that same turn. Was I correct?
2 where can I find actual tournament rules? Our local store might have me run some tournaments, but I need a bit more info about the format, timing, etc.
Two Questions:
1 Deployment out of sequence, the Behind Enemy Lines card states "immediately deploy 1 adventurer creature in an ooponent's start zone."
What the card doesn't state, which one player argued at a demo, is that you need to have enough leadership available to deploy the creature...I ruled that you would still need the leadership available before you could deploy it, but you could deploy it out of the normal sequence, which would allow it to act that same turn. Was I correct?
2 where can I find actual tournament rules? Our local store might have me run some tournaments, but I need a bit more info about the format, timing, etc.
1. There is in fact no summoning sickess in this game. As a result, if you manage to get a creature on the board during your "activation" phase, then you can most definately activate (move/attack) that creature right away.
Page 6 of the rulebook with regards to the word "deploy".
"You can deploy total Levels of creatures up to your commander’s starting Leadership score. You don’t have to deploy that many Levels of creatures, but you cannot exceed that number."
2. I could have sworn I remember reading a thread about a tournament rules document floating around. But I couldn't find it. 
They were originally posted in the proxies thread, which has fallen to like page 3. The link is:
www.wizards.com/wpn/Document.aspx?x=2012...
Two Questions:
1 Deployment out of sequence, the Behind Enemy Lines card states "immediately deploy 1 adventurer creature in an ooponent's start zone."
What the card doesn't state, which one player argued at a demo, is that you need to have enough leadership available to deploy the creature...I ruled that you would still need the leadership available before you could deploy it, but you could deploy it out of the normal sequence, which would allow it to act that same turn. Was I correct?
2 where can I find actual tournament rules? Our local store might have me run some tournaments, but I need a bit more info about the format, timing, etc.
1. There is in fact no summoning sickess in this game. As a result, if you manage to get a creature on the board during your "activation" phase, then you can most definately activate (move/attack) that creature right away.
Page 6 of the rulebook with regards to the word "deploy"."You can deploy total Levels of creatures up to your commander’s starting Leadership score. You don’t have to deploy that many Levels of creatures, but you cannot exceed that number."
2. I could have sworn I remember reading a thread about a tournament rules document floating around. But I couldn't find it.
Thanks, that's what I felt, just wanted some back up on it.
They were originally posted in the proxies thread, which has fallen to like page 3. The link is:
www.wizards.com/wpn/Document.aspx?x=2012...
Thanks, that just lead to the general home page...but I found the page eventually...apparently it doesn't let you do a direct link to it...
They were originally posted in the proxies thread, which has fallen to like page 3. The link is:
www.wizards.com/wpn/Document.aspx?x=2012...
Thanks, that just lead to the general home page...but I found the page eventually...apparently it doesn't let you do a direct link to it...
Actually that one used to work as a direct link, I guess they changed the location
Usually, you need a creature to play order cards on. Can you play Behind Enemy Lines, even if you don't have any creatures on the board?
We ran into this in one of our games. I killed all my opponent's creatures; on his turn he had a BEL card, but no creatures to play it on.
While we're talking about the "Behind Enemy Lines" card:
Usually, you need a creature to play order cards on. Can you play Behind Enemy Lines, even if you don't have any creatures on the board?
We ran into this in one of our games. I killed all my opponent's creatures; on his turn he had a BEL card, but no creatures to play it on.
BEL: you are deploying creatures from your Creature Hand, not on the board. The creatures also Deploy during the Activation Phase, rather than the Deploy Phase, which means they can immediately act.
Are there any other ways to gain morale besides the Treasure Tokens? I've gone through the rule book a couple times but I didn't see anythng else besides the Order Card "if this unit is in your starting area at the beginning of your turn gain 4 Morale".
Thanks
Instead of starting a new thread I thought I'd ask in this one. Also, my apologies if this has already been cleared up somewhre else.
Are there any other ways to gain morale besides the Treasure Tokens? I've gone through the rule book a couple times but I didn't see anythng else besides the Order Card "if this unit is in your starting area at the beginning of your turn gain 4 Morale".
Thanks
The only way to gain morale through core rules is treasures, and Behind Enemy Lines is IIRC the only way to gain it off a card right now. But we certainly might see more cards that do it in the future.
I mean, I know that when I burn down my opponents Copper Dragon on his second turn after deployment MY morale goes up a little. Why not my Warbands?
I don't think it should be anything huge, but a little extra wouldn't hurt.
When do targets need to be declared for attack actions? Is the answer the same for both basic attacks (those printed in the upper left of a creature's card) and for attacks granted through Order cards?
For example, take Shadowy Ambush. It reads "Shift 2 squares; then, Make a melee attack that deals 50 damage." Imagine that my Drow House Guard is 2 squares away from a badly wounded War Wizard and a Human Ranger that are adjacent to each other. My Drow has already moved for the turn, but I want to use Shadowy Ambush to shift next to both enemies, and then finish the wizard off.
If I have to declare a target for the attack when I cast Shadowy Ambush (that is, when the ability goes on the stack), then I would need to name the War Wizard as the intended target. If, after my shift, my opponent decides to interrupt by shifting his War Wizard away, then my attack would fizzle, despite the fact that my Drow is now also adjacent to a Human Ranger I could have attacked instead.
Or; does targetting happen upon the resolution of an attack? In this case, I can shift my Drow up without announcing a target. My opponent would probalby still try to save his wizard from the predictable attack, but at least I'd get to waste a ranger instead.
It seems that Shadowy Ambush becomes a much worse card if the former is the case, and much more...flavorful if it's the latter. It seems a lot more in the spirit of the card to *not* telegraph your ambush to your opponent. We had been playing that targets were chosen as the attack was put on the stack, as that was most intuitive for basic attacks and a lot of order card attacks. However, the Shadowy Ambush situation stumped us. It didn't seem right to have to say "You! Over there! I'm going to ambush you soon! Now's your chance to avoid my attack!"
Regardless, we ended up deciding to play the way we had been all along, and the Drow lost his attack and promptly died the next turn.
* * * * *
Additionally, when does tapping occur? Do creatures tap as part of the cost to put an attack or Standard/Immediate ability on the stack? (If so, that makes Sieze the Opportunity quite good). We've been playing that tapping occurs as part of the cost, but we couldn't find any clarification in the rulebook.
Thanks for any (and all) clarification on the above two points!
As to the first question, which card/ability allows the wizard to do that?
The second question I'm pretty sure is exactly what is intended (your opponent attacks, which taps his creature, you then seize the opportunity on that tapped creature). I'm not sure what happens if the 20 damage kills the attacking creature. i.e. does that prevent the attack? do the resolve at the same time?
As to the first question, which card/ability allows the wizard to do that?
Ah, I didn't exactly have a specific ability in mind. It's more the larger issue that I was interested in. Let's say instead that he had an ally next to him that could use the Level 1 STR order which protects against 30 damage to an ally. That would have the same effect of potentially neutralizing the Shadowy Ambush for purposes of the example.
As for the second question, if an attack's source is destroyed before the attack can resolve, the attack fizzles. That's an official answer, but I don't have the time to find the source right now. Sorry!
I've got some friends over and we're playing DC right now.
I would assume that if there were some interrupt that allowed the creature to shift, that it would behave the same. The target that he declared is no longer valid, so the attack would fizzle.
In that case, then yes, that is how the card is designed to work. You play your attack, he taps to use an interrupt. At that point he is not able to play any additional interrupts using that creature (without something special that would allow him to untap it).
I would assume that if there were some interrupt that allowed the creature to shift, that it would behave the same. The target that he declared is no longer valid, so the attack would fizzle.
If through a card such as "Riposte" or "Seize the Opportunity" you manage to destroy the original attacking creature, that creature would be dead and it's attack would not occur.
The following is from a question to Chris Dupuis, game designer:
Question --
"(2) Lethal Damage with Immediates.
Situation: An opponent makes a melee attack and I respond with an Immediate that also does damage (Seize the Opportunity, Riposte, etc.). If the damage from my Immediate is lethal, would the original attack against me not go through because my opponents creature is DEAD and not able to complete the attack? When does the damage from my opponent "hit" me? I'm familiar with the Stack from my days of playing magic, but one of the Wizards GMs at GenCon told me a different story."
Answer --
2. If your immediate would do lethal damage before his attack cleared the stack, his attack would fizzle as he is no longer an eligible attacker. He could always cower your damage to let his attack go off.
In short, the question is: when do you assign the target of an attack action? Do you select a target as the attack/order goes onto the stack? Or, do you select the target when the attack/order goes to resolve?
My original example with Shadowy Ambush wasn't a question about the card, but just an illustration as to why such a question matters.
I know that assigning as the action goes on the stack seems more intuitive (at least to me), but I am hoping to find an official answer / offical source for this. Thanks!
There is a specific rule about stacks containing multiple actions on cards.
MULTIPLE ACTIONS ON CARDS: Some Order cards contain several distinct actions, which must be performed in order. When you play a card with multiple actions on it, they go on the stack in the reverse order they appear on the card. Players can respond to each action separately.
For example, the Shadowy Ambush card contains two actions: Shift 2 squares; then, Make a melee attack that deals 50 damage. When you play this card on a creature, the attack goes on the stack first, and the shift goes on top. When the card’s actions resolve, the creature will take them in the correct order.
Riposte reads:
Prevent 20 damage to this creature from 1 source.
Make a melee attack that deals 10 damage.
The original attack goes on the stack.
Then Riposte is added to the stack.
Riposte is resolved first, but according to the Multiple Actions on Cards rule, the Prevent 20 Damage takes place first.
The part about players dealing with each action seperately got me wondering, does this mean the original damage is intended to be applied to the prevention portion and resolved, then the riposte deals damage?
I agree a clarification would be nice, but given things usually follow Magic pretty closely in this game, my guess is that the prevention effect creates a shield, so that when the card resolves, it creates an effect that will prevent damage when the source actuall deals it. (In other words, the Riposte prevention resolves at the top of the stack, but doesn't do anything until the bottom.) As you say though, clarification would be nice.
Clarification would also be nice as to what "source" actually means in terms of a damage source. I sort of assume "source" is shorthand for "a thing sitting on the stack" because that interacts with Feint in the way everyone I've played with expects (ie, you tap your dude and can't play a defensive immediate yet because there's nothing to target). It could be the intent is that the source is the creature making the attack, though, in which case it seems like you could respond to Feint with a prevention card and have it work if that creature then attacked you later (presumably in the turn, though that's also not clear if this is how source works).
Basically I can see why no one wanted to write a comprehensive rules for Dungeon Command, but sadly it probably needs it.
If I have to declare a target for the attack when I cast Shadowy Ambush (that is, when the ability goes on the stack), then I would need to name the War Wizard as the intended target. If, after my shift, my opponent decides to interrupt by shifting his War Wizard away, then my attack would fizzle, despite the fact that my Drow is now also adjacent to a Human Ranger I could have attacked instead.
Or; does targetting happen upon the resolution of an attack? In this case, I can shift my Drow up without announcing a target. My opponent would probalby still try to save his wizard from the predictable attack, but at least I'd get to waste a ranger instead.
He absolutely would know the target of the attack and have a pirority stop where he could play an intterupt with that knowledge.
Play Shadowy ambush (declaring your target and taping your creature), putting the attack on the stack then the shift.
Opponent's priority
Resolve the Shift (assuming it's still legal)
Opponent's priority
Resolve the Attack (assuming it's still legal)
Clarification would also be nice as to what "source" actually means in terms of a damage source. I sort of assume "source" is shorthand for "a thing sitting on the stack" because that interacts with Feint in the way everyone I've played with expects (ie, you tap your dude and can't play a defensive immediate yet because there's nothing to target). It could be the intent is that the source is the creature making the attack, though, in which case it seems like you could respond to Feint with a prevention card and have it work if that creature then attacked you later (presumably in the turn, though that's also not clear if this is how source works).
The judges at the PAX tourament said that a "source" is an action. It was exactly the feint, uncanny dodge, sneak attack senario. They ruled that no he could not name the creature as a source and prevent an undeclared attack. It seemed like it wasn't the first time they had encountered that question.
Also the example on page 9 of the rules (under "THE STACK") says "uncanny dodge goes onto the stack above Killing Strike and resolves first: ... chooses to prevent the damage from Killing Strike." If the intent was creatures are sources I think it would have said Dragon Knight instead.
I expect that in addition to errata the rules will get an updated version sooner or later.
The judges at the PAX tourament said that a "source" is an action. It was exactly the feint, uncanny dodge, sneak attack senario. They ruled that no he could not name the creature as a source and prevent an undeclared attack. It seemed like it wasn't the first time they had encountered that question.
Also the example on page 9 of the rules (under "THE STACK") says "uncanny dodge goes onto the stack above Killing Strike and resolves first: ... chooses to prevent the damage from Killing Strike." If the intent was creatures are sources I think it would have said Dragon Knight instead.
I expect that in addition to errata the rules will get an updated version sooner or later.
That's how I've been playing it, good to hear. I really wanted to play in that tournament and/or pick the judge brains, but sadly I could only drop by briefly and had to get back to my booth. If only it'd been an evening event.
i‘m not sure if this has been addressed before but do you need to make a distinction between your Creature and Order cards? when you hold them, do you hold them altogether or do you need to keep your Order hand from your Creature hand?
They have different backs, which suggests to me that they're supposed to be distinguishable in hand. I don't think there's anything wrong with holding them all at once, but sleeving them all in identical sleeves in order to create confusion is not something I'd allow.
Oh, and of course they also have to be clearly identifiable since you draw up to your creature hand size every turn. So yeah, which cards are creature as opposed to order cards is and needs to be public information. Other than that I don't see any problem with holding them at the same time.
Other than that I don't see any problem with holding them at the same time.
Per the tournament rules, the creatures have to be in your left hand, the orders in your right hand, and your pinkie has to be extended.
Or maybe that was just a bad dream.
But a player is allowed to know the number of order cards or creature cards an opponant has at any time.
Though, to me, it would have made sense to use two different backed sets of card sleeves.
But I suppose using identical sleeves is just like keeping your cards face down in a single pile,
Shadowy Ambush(also Spring Attack) - on pg. 13, it says that the target is declared when you tap your creature to make a melee attack. So, you resolve the shift, then, you resolve the melee attack, at which time you tap the creature and declare the target. This also means that if your creature plays Shadowy ambush, shifts 2 squares, and as a reaction to the shift, a creature uses an interrupt to shift/move out of melee range, such that after the shift 2 there are no adjacent creatures, your creature would NOT be able to legally trigger the melee attack, meaning it would NOT end up tapped.
Riposte- since the immediate action prevents damage, that damage has to already happen, meaning the attack has to already hit, you are now in the damage resolution part of the attack. You wouldn't be able to use Riposte to prevent the attack, just 20 of the damage. Any extra damage would STILL go through, even if the attacking creature ends up dying by the end of the stack.
card sleeves- I believe the rule is that each DECK needs to be in identical sleeves, so all the cards in your creature deck have to be in identical sleeves, and all the cards in your order deck have to be in identical sleeves, but each deck can be in different sleeves, ie. creature in red, order in blue.
card sleeves- I believe the rule is that each DECK needs to be in identical sleeves, so all the cards in your creature deck have to be in identical sleeves, and all the cards in your order deck have to be in identical sleeves, but each deck can be in different sleeves, ie. creature in red, order in blue.
This is the rule: "If a player chooses to use card sleeves, all sleeves must be identical and all cards in his or her deck must be placed in the sleeves in an identical manner."
No mention of decks or separate sleeves used for creatures and orders.
Riposte- since the immediate action prevents damage, that damage has to already happen, meaning the attack has to already hit, you are now in the damage resolution part of the attack. You wouldn't be able to use Riposte to prevent the attack, just 20 of the damage. Any extra damage would STILL go through, even if the attacking creature ends up dying by the end of the stack.
I'm not sure of the source, but supposedly this was from Chris Dupuis (one of the designers, no?)
The following is from a question to Chris Dupuis, game designer:
Question --
"(2) Lethal Damage with Immediates.
Situation: An opponent makes a melee attack and I respond with an Immediate that also does damage (Seize the Opportunity, Riposte, etc.). If the damage from my Immediate is lethal, would the original attack against me not go through because my opponents creature is DEAD and not able to complete the attack? When does the damage from my opponent "hit" me? I'm familiar with the Stack from my days of playing magic, but one of the Wizards GMs at GenCon told me a different story."
Answer --
2. If your immediate would do lethal damage before his attack cleared the stack, his attack would fizzle as he is no longer an eligible attacker. He could always cower your damage to let his attack go off.
Unfortunately, thetourney floor rules state that if using sleeves, they must have identical backs (see page 12 of floor rules).
But a player is allowed to know the number of order cards or creature cards an opponant has at any time.
Though, to me, it would have made sense to use two different backed sets of card sleeves.
But I suppose using identical sleeves is just like keeping your cards face down in a single pile,
I should have downloaded the tournament rules when I had the chance, now my links are broken and the google custom search does nothing
Are you sure they don't mean each deck has to have the same back? Because requiring identical sleeves for cards that don't have identical backs seems actively counterproductive - way easier to cheat that way!EDIT: Beaten so hard. But the second part implies they lifted it from something like Magic ("the deck" not "each deck") so I'd love to get a clarification. If that's intentional then that's how it is but as a TO I find that rule pretty lame. Not that DC is super competitive at this point, but I don't relish the idea of judges being called to verify that the cards in each hand are the right kinds of cards.
3.8 Sleeves
Players may use plastic card sleeves or other protective devices on cards. If a player chooses to use card sleeves, all sleeves must be identical and all cards in his or her deck must be placed in the sleeves in an identical manner. If the sleeves feature holograms or other similar markings, cards must be inserted into the sleeves so these markings appear only on the faces of the cards.
During a match, a player may request that a judge inspect an opponent’s card sleeves. The judge may disallow the card sleeves if he or she believes they are marked, worn, or otherwise in a condition or of a design that interferes with shuffling or game play. In the interest of efficiency, the judge may choose to delay any change of sleeves until the end of the match.
The order deck and creature deck are seperate decks. Each deck must follow the above rules individually, but not together.
i personally think that this should be the case. having played other card games that uses more than 1 deck, it's always been ruled out to have unidentical sleeves for each of the decks.
On page 13 under the “Distance and Counting” side bar, first bullet says “The acting creature must have a line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified.” So must a creature have a line of sight to the hex it wishes to target with the “Fireball” card? Would this also apply to playing “Fire Trap”?
"The acting creature must have line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified." Since Fireball and Fire Trap do not specify that LoS is not needed, the creature using those order cards will need LoS to the target squares.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned elsewhere but the 'distances and counting' sidebar refers to 'whenever you need to determine distance', so should only relate to orders that specify a range. Fireball specifies a range and an area of effect (range 5 then area within 2).
Fire Trap does not specify any range (it just says 'choose 1 hazardous terrain square'), it does specify an area of effect (within 2).
By implication, Fire Trap has no listed range, so why are you applying the rule about ranged attacks?
I understand that once you've chosen which square you have to have LoE etc. from that square to effect models caught in the blast.
But the way I read that card was as simple as the wording on it.
No range measured between model playing order and square chosen so LoS rules do not apply.
Same with cover, it applies against 'ranged attacks'. That needs clearing up with 'area attacks', are they 'ranged' or not?
Maybe the Fire Trap card needs an errata, but as it is, it simply is not a ranged attack, so ranged attack rules should not apply.
If it has not been cleared up already, could someone do so, as ToG deploy area is just asking to be fire trapped?
Rule on p13 relates to basic melee attacks. Shadowy Ambush is a Standard action order card, not a basic melee attack.
As such relevant rules are:
p.11 'When you play an order card on a creature you control, it becomes the acting creature for that card and takes the specified action or actions.'
p. 8 'You choose the targets for an order card when you play it.'
p.12 'Taking a standard action taps the acting creature.'
Your comments completely contradict what is written in the base game rules.
Even if there is no legal target for the attack once you have shifted, you have still played a standard action order card, so are tapped.
Think about Sping Attack in light of what you are suggesting about Shadowy Ambush.
It would become 'shift 6, untap, shift 6', which is just absurd
On page 13 under the “Distance and Counting” side bar, first bullet says “The acting creature must have a line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified.” So must a creature have a line of sight to the hex it wishes to target with the “Fireball” card? Would this also apply to playing “Fire Trap”?
"The acting creature must have line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified." Since Fireball and Fire Trap do not specify that LoS is not needed, the creature using those order cards will need LoS to the target squares.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned elsewhere but the 'distances and counting' sidebar refers to 'whenever you need to determine distance', so should only relate to orders that specify a range. Fireball specifies a range and an area of effect (range 5 then area within 2).
Fire Trap does not specify any range (it just says 'choose 1 hazardous terrain square'), it does specify an area of effect (within 2).
By implication, Fire Trap has no listed range, so why are you applying the rule about ranged attacks?
I understand that once you've chosen which square you have to have LoE etc. from that square to effect models caught in the blast.
But the way I read that card was as simple as the wording on it.
No range measured between model playing order and square chosen so LoS rules do not apply.
Same with cover, it applies against 'ranged attacks'. That needs clearing up with 'area attacks', are they 'ranged' or not?
Maybe the Fire Trap card needs an errata, but as it is, it simply is not a ranged attack, so ranged attack rules should not apply.
If it has not been cleared up already, could someone do so, as ToG deploy area is just asking to be fire trapped?
I think that whoever is using the Fireball has to have line of sight to the square they want to Fireball. If not, it allows them to drop the fireball in a room (see the Tyranny of Goblin tiles) and completely negates the benefit of obstacles. I'm currently playing that you need LoS with Fireball to the square you want to hit. Anything else just seems like it breaks the spirit of the game.
I think that whoever is using the Fireball has to have line of sight to the square they want to Fireball. If not, it allows them to drop the fireball in a room (see the Tyranny of Goblin tiles) and completely negates the benefit of obstacles. I'm currently playing that you need LoS with Fireball to the square you want to hit. Anything else just seems like it breaks the spirit of the game.
That's how I play it. The caster of Fireball needs to have LoS to the targeted square. Then, LoS from that square is used to determine which creatures take damage from it.
I think that whoever is using the Fireball has to have line of sight to the square they want to Fireball. If not, it allows them to drop the fireball in a room (see the Tyranny of Goblin tiles) and completely negates the benefit of obstacles. I'm currently playing that you need LoS with Fireball to the square you want to hit. Anything else just seems like it breaks the spirit of the game.
That's how I play it. The caster of Fireball needs to have LoS to the targeted square. Then, LoS from that square is used to determine which creatures take damage from it.
I think you just need LoS to the targeted square. After that, it doesn't matter if you have LoS to the creatures. The Fireball just explodes and hits them. That seems to me the way to do it.
(This seems obvious to me, so hopefully that really is the case)
The creature being hit does need LoS from the square that is targetted though, right? For example, you can't drop a fireball against a wall, and count squares through that wall.
(This seems obvious to me, so hopefully that really is the case)
It needs line of effect, not line of sight. The difference is that LOS requires a straight line. LOE can go around corners if the area of effect is large enough. So, the blast can't go through the wall, but it can try to go around the wall. Also, enemy creatures can block LOS, but not LOE.
Spells like "Web" or "Faerie Fire" don't specifiy a range. I've been playing that they only require Line of Site but I wasn't sure if there was anything else I was missing.
Cliff Walls on the Outdoor side of the tiles: Do they act like the Dungeon Walls, as in block movement and line of site? I mean, from a visual perspective it looks like I could shoot some arrows down slope, as it were. Also, can the Copper Dragon fly across them? I mean, he can fly.
I have a couple of rules questions, if I may.
Spells like "Web" or "Faerie Fire" don't specifiy a range. I've been playing that they only require Line of Site but I wasn't sure if there was anything else I was missing.
Cliff Walls on the Outdoor side of the tiles: Do they act like the Dungeon Walls, as in block movement and line of site? I mean, from a visual perspective it looks like I could shoot some arrows down slope, as it were. Also, can the Copper Dragon fly across them? I mean, he can fly.
Doesn't Web have a range? It says attach to one creature within 10 squares. So I thought it was LOS 10 squares.
I believe the cliffs are just the same as walls in the dungeon. I figured they go up, as in mountain cliffs. That being said I am almost 100% sure the dragon must fly around, same as the dungeon wall.
Flyi ng: Creatures such as the Copper Dragon are able to fly
over the battlefield when they move. In game terms, the Flying
power lets a creature freely enter squares that contain enemy
creatures and move past such creatures without stopping first.
The creature also ignores difficult and hazardous terrain and
obstacles. Walls still block its movement.
Walls: Indoor walls
separate areas of the
dungeon; outdoor walls
are cliffs and other high
formations.
Can I play Riposte if the creature would still die from the attack? I've been playing it as "No", because I figure, hey you can't Riposte if you're dead; but I'd like to be sure.
Okay, 'nother question.
Can I play Riposte if the creature would still die from the attack? I've been playing it as "No", because I figure, hey you can't Riposte if you're dead; but I'd like to be sure.
Your opponent's creature's attack goes on the stack.
You play Riposte in response. It goes on the stack.
You resolve from the top of the stack: Riposte. You deal damage to your opponent's creature.
If the opponent's creature is still alive, its attack resolves, minus the damage you prevented. It kills your creature (unless you decide to cower for the remaining damage).
If the opponent's creature is not alive, its attack fizzles.
So yes, you can.
Just a few questions regarding combat.
If player 1 attacks player 2 and player 2 performs some type of action such as a block. Can player 2 then perform a minor attack or on player 1 while technically on the defensive end?
Dungeon Command is awesome.
Just a few questions regarding combat.
If player 1 attacks player 2 and player 2 performs some type of action such as a block. Can player 2 then perform a minor attack or on player 1 while technically on the defensive end?
You can only use minors during your own activation. Only Immediate cards can be used on the opponent's turn. So no.
So, now that Curse is out, I'm back with a round of questions for my tournament tomorrow! I'd love another official response but consensus on what feels best would be helpful too.
So, a couple of sorta-similar questions about two orders.
Call to Battle: "As a standard action, deploy 1 creature now. If this creature is in a magic circle, gain 1 morale before deploying." This implies to me that I can just use a standard to gain 1 morale if I'm in a magic circle and want to (say because I don't have enough leadership to actualy deploy anything) but this could be a Magic bias showing through. On the other hand, 1 morale for a standard action on a level 3+ dude hardly seems broken. Anyway, I'd love to know the intent here.
Swarm of Bats: "Prevent all damage to this creature from one source, then shift 6 squares." So, my interpretation of this is that the shift happens after the source resolves, but isn't contingent on preventing damage. So it basically sets up what we'd call in Magic a "delayed trigger" that resolves after the chosen source does and causes you to shift 6. So I've got two conclusions here that I want to make sure I'm right about:
1. If the damage can't be prevented, say due to Piercing Strike or Magic Short Sword, I still get to shift (I am pretty sure of this one)
2. (The less clear case) It seems pretty clear I can't just play this card to shift 6 whenever I like, since if I can't pick a source, I can't set up the delayed trigger. But, can I play it if the source (ie, some random thing on the stack) isn't even trying to do damage to the creature? In other words, if I want to move my Vampire Stalker around, and my opponent is attacking some Skeleton somewhere else on the board, can I play Swarm of Bats, prevent the damage to the Vampire (even though the attack doesn't target the Vampire), and then shift the Vampire 6? It seems like I should be able to, but I'm not sure this is the intended effect.
Thanks!
As for swarm of bats: it needs a valid target according to the rules. An attack targeting another creature is not a valid target for the vampire stalker in your example. Neither is an attack that does target the vamp but cannot be prevented, that is swarm of bats does not have a legal target if that target mentions it cannot be prevented.
Seems to me you can't use the ability if you can't deploy, so gaining 1 Morale withoutdeploying shouldn't be possible. As for swarm of bats: it needs a valid target according to the rules. An attack targeting another creature is not a valid target for the vampire stalker in your example. Neither is an attack that does target the vamp but cannot be prevented, that is swarm of bats does not have a legal target if that target mentions it cannot be prevented.
Are you sure? I might have missed something in the rulebook I guess, but I don't see anywhere that says you can't play a defense card if you can't prevent damage. And if you're right, it's not clear to me how that would work with something like Seize the Opportunity, that has damage prevention plus some other useful effect (or even one of the ones that prevents damage and draws a card). It seems like you should be able to play those even if you can't prevent anything. Can you cite a source on not being able to pick an attack as a source if you can't prevent damage?
Playing with people I hadn't played with before a very basic question arose that we couldn't answer definatively from the rulebook. (I guess my group had always played it one way and their group another way)Do large creatures pay extra again for moving their trailing two squares through difficult terrain? I made the image on the left demonstrating the question. My argument was that they only pay once (1, 2/3, 4, 5) theirs was they pay each time (1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).
I was basing my interpretation on the description of difficult terrain on p.10: "If a creature occupies multiple squares, its whole space is considered to enter difficult terrain simultaneously." And further up it says "Entering a square of difficult terrain costs 1 extra square of movement" (emphasis mine).
So my reasoning was that the whole creature is already in difficult terrain so it wasn't "entering" it again as the back two squares moved over it (and so didn't need to pay extra again). But I could easily be interpreting it incorrectly and/or mixing it up with the rules from the old D&D minis game and the 4e rpg rules.
Their argument was that parts of their space were entering difficult terrain so they should pay the penalty again (hence the 1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).
If anyone could offer the correct interpretation and/or point out where it is clearly explained I would really appreciate it. And apologies if this is already answered somewhere but I searched as much as possible before posting to make sure it wasn't clarified elsewhere.
I mainly came to this conclussion because of the map pieces with doors, the large figures have to open both doors to enter a room.
Do large creatures pay extra again for moving their trailing two squares through difficult terrain? I made the image on the left demonstrating the question. My argument was that they only pay once (1, 2/3, 4, 5) theirs was they pay each time (1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).
I was basing my interpretation on the description of difficult terrain on p.10: "If a creature occupies multiple squares, its whole space is considered to enter difficult terrain simultaneously." And further up it says "Entering a square of difficult terrain costs 1 extra square of movement" (emphasis mine).
So my reasoning was that the whole creature is already in difficult terrain so it wasn't "entering" it again as the back two squares moved over it (and so didn't need to pay extra again). But I could easily be interpreting it incorrectly and/or mixing it up with the rules from the old D&D minis game and the 4e rpg rules.
Their argument was that parts of their space were entering difficult terrain so they should pay the penalty again (hence the 1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).
If anyone could offer the correct interpretation and/or point out where it is clearly explained I would really appreciate it. And apologies if this is already answered somewhere but I searched as much as possible before posting to make sure it wasn't clarified elsewhere.
We've always used your second example picture, basically counting from the front square(s) entering and not counting the back square(s)....although we also haven't been able to justify this entirely from the rules as written, it made sense to all of us, so we agreed to play it that way.
Do multiple Lolths Blessing stack on one Priestress ? (and also Faerie Fire on one creature ? ...)
Quick Question:
Do multiple Lolths Blessing stack on one Priestress ? (and also Faerie Fire on one creature ? ...)
They don't give keyworded abilities, so yes and yes.
Also:
1) Death Sentence: Can this card be used on the creature playing it? As that creature is a creature you control, within 5 squares of the creature using the ability. Or is it only for a different creature within 5 squares and Line of Sight.
2) Warning Shout: Can this card be used on the Creature Playing it? It states that it prevents 30 damage from 1 allied creature in line of sight.
(notes) Can a creature draw line of sight to itself? Please keep in mind as well that the Shield card states it may target "this" creature or another creature you control within 5 squares. So because Death Sentence and Warning shout do not specify the creature may target itself they cant?
3) the movement question above for large creatures and difficult terrain: As stated by the rules for large creatures if any square of the creatures base enters difficult terrain it costs +1 movement point. meaning the 2nd picture is correct. however if multiple squares of the base enter difficult terrain the cost is still only +1 meaning moving a 4 square figure onto 4 squares of difficult terrain only costs 2 movement not 5. Is this correct?
4) Line of sight on outdoors cliffs (walls): as shown in the rule book line of sight around a corner of wall on the outdoor tiles is determined not by the edge of the wall square but by the actually picture of the wall on the game board. is this intended? or should the corner of the square be used to determine line of sight as it would be on the dungeon side where walls cover entire squares only.
5) If the rulebook is correct for outdoor line of sight being based on the picture on the tile and not the corner of the square does that then change the diagonal movement around corners of walls limitation on movement when playing on an outdoors map? (you can move diagonally except when moving around a corner of a wall, but if the corner does not block line of sight then the corner would not block movement either?)
Thanks.
To me, players on adjacent corner would not be able to attack each other. I kind of take it as cover. You would have to come out one square to do an attack. But I'd like to see an official response regarding hard corners and attacking as well.
Glad we agree on the need for an offical response. They probably need to create a small print out covering corners, since they play such a big roll in movement (especially large creatures), attacks, and special order cards. Since shifting and sliding can also be effected by Terrain, its interaction with corners needs to be more heavily defined.
To me, players on adjacent corner would not be able to attack each other. I kind of take it as cover. You would have to come out one square to do an attack. But I'd like to see an official response regarding hard corners and attacking as well.
The rules say you are adjacent to a character across a hard corner. The rules say melee attacks can be done to characters that are adjacent. The rules make no explicit exception for hard corners. Ergo, you can melee attack across a hard corner.
Now, if you really want to talk about ambiguous rules, tell me how hard corners work with Reach 2, because I have no frakking clue.
To me, players on adjacent corner would not be able to attack each other. I kind of take it as cover. You would have to come out one square to do an attack. But I'd like to see an official response regarding hard corners and attacking as well.
The rules say you are adjacent to a character across a hard corner. The rules say melee attacks can be done to characters that are adjacent. The rules make no explicit exception for hard corners. Ergo, you can melee attack across a hard corner.
Now, if you really want to talk about ambiguous rules, tell me how hard corners work with Reach 2, because I have no frakking clue.
I just flipped through the rulebook again to check and I can't find anything in the rules about hard/soft corners and even if corners interefere with melee attacks. By looking the LOS rules, the corner would not actually interfere in melee since one corner can see all corners of the target. But, you can't move through those corners as if they weren't adjacent so this still isn't the most clear. And again, I didn't see anything a bout hard/soft (round) corners so, despite the way it looks on the board, I don't see any mechanical represenation to explain its difference in gameplay, if any. Maybe if the Underground Tiles themselves had 'soft' corners (it appears may only be two, but not sure), the difference would make a little more sense. Either way, I can't find it in the rulebook.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />The rules say you are adjacent to a character across a hard corner. The rules say melee attacks can be done to characters that are adjacent. The rules make no explicit exception for hard corners. Ergo, you can melee attack across a hard corner.
Now, if you really want to talk about ambiguous rules, tell me how hard corners work with Reach 2, because I have no frakking clue.
Sums it up right there.
As for how hard corners work with reach, pretty much the same as in your first paragraph there. It does say treat as adjacent, doesn't it? (don't have my cards here atm).
Yeah, it's too bad that official replies seem to have dropped off, though I certainly understand people get busy. I'd still love to hear replies to my last set about Call to Battle and Cloud of Bats.
Reach and Hard Corners: Clarification never hurts, but RAW it looks like the Horned Devil can't attack around a hard corner from one step back because the target will be three squares away. I base this on the square counting rules on p. 13:
"Some effect specify a range in squares [...] When determining this distance, always count around walls, never through them." To me this implies that you count as if you were moving, so you can't cut hard corners. Again, something I've learned over my many years in gaming is that official clarification always helps put people's minds to rest, but I wouldn't have trouble ruling this one in a tournament with reasonable confidence.
Reach and Hard Corners: Clarification never hurts, but RAW it looks like the Horned Devil can't attack around a hard corner from one step back because the target will be three squares away. I base this on the square counting rules on p. 13:
"Some effect specify a range in squares [...] When determining this distance, always count around walls, never through them." To me this implies that you count as if you were moving, so you can't cut hard corners. Again, something I've learned over my many years in gaming is that official clarification always helps put people's minds to rest, but I wouldn't have trouble ruling this one in a tournament with reasonable confidence.
If you'd rule that you'd also have to forbid melee attacks around a corner since around a corner wouldn't be adjacent anymore but by your reckoning two squares away..........which is in direct voilation of the rules as written regarding melee combat around a corner.
So yeah, I'd disagree with that ruling.
Edit: I believe the rule you are referring to was intended to mean you can't count an opponent as one square away when there is a solid wall between you, but would have to count all the way around the wall (which might go one for three more squares). Also, your assumption of treating this as movement is based on.....what exactly? Why not use the rules for LoS, which don't forbid counting diagonally, but use corner to corner calculations? Last one makes more sense in my opinion. Still, I agree that some formal answer would be desirable. (not to mention an updated FAQ with all these questions we've been discussing over the past few months.)
All 3 of the ranged creatures that have a ranged attack deal at least 20 damage.
pg 12 of the rule book 'Taking a standard action taps the acting creature"
What is the point of this card?
Use it and it taps your creature (as it's a standard action) and on one out of three creatures you actually lose damage.
I'm confused, help please?
So when you deploy a new unit, you've already passed the activation stage, for this turn. Mind you if you play a card like "Behind Enemy Lines" you could deploy a unit and then move/attack with it, all in the same turn.
Thanks so much!
Rayven
It does count against your leadership points, the only rules that are broken by this card are when and where you can deploy a single adventurer.
I'm not sure whether the bold text is a question or a comment. But yes, it allows you to deploy a new creature and then move and attack all on the same turn. I've used it on two occasions to knock out a Drow Priestess with Lolths blessing that was hiding where she thought she was safe.
Basically my opponent had a creature that was going to die at the start of his turn from the Deep Wound he had attached (Deal 10 Damage to this creature at the start of its controller's turn.) Could he play the immediate 'Patch Up' (this creature heals 20 damage) at the start of his turn, either before taking the 10 or using the 10 damage as a trigger to play the immediate (so the stack would be heal 20, then take 10). I realize he could have played it in response to the attack that dealt the Deep Wound initially and there would be no conflict; he just forgot to do that.
All it says for immediate actions in the rules is “Immediate actions are usually responses to other actions. They can be played on any player’s turn. Taking an immediate action taps the acting creature.” The Patch Up card doesn't seem to have a trigger though, and the first sentence from the rules indicates that immediate actions won't always have a trigger or be responding to something. So can Immediate order cards without a trigger be played at any time during any player's Refresh, Activate, Deploy, or Cleanup phase?
Same question for the Dwarf Cleric's Healing Touch, which is an immediate. Although in that case it seems more clear that he can only do that during his activation since "Use Creature Powers" is one of the 4 actions available for creatures to take when they are activated (move, play order cards, use creature powers, take other actions). But does that mean that's the ONLY time creature powers can be used? I imagine a dwarf cleric could use Healing Touch as an immediate on an opponents turn too as a reaction if he was untapped. But again, it's only during the Activate phase, not refresh, deploy, or cleanup.
Anyway, thanks for any light anyone can help shed on this.
There is nothing wrong with your ideas behind your first question. This seeme to be the opinion of a few other players as well, although nothing official.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Ok, time for a stumper that came up in a game last night. The general question is - can immediate actions only be played on you or your opponent's Activate phase, or at any time in any phase as long as the target is untapped?
Basically my opponent had a creature that was going to die at the start of his turn from the Deep Wound he had attached (Deal 10 Damage to this creature at the start of its controller's turn.) Could he play the immediate 'Patch Up' (this creature heals 20 damage) at the start of his turn, either before taking the 10 or using the 10 damage as a trigger to play the immediate (so the stack would be heal 20, then take 10). I realize he could have played it in response to the attack that dealt the Deep Wound initially and there would be no conflict; he just forgot to do that.
All it says for immediate actions in the rules is “Immediate actions are usually responses to other actions. They can be played on any player’s turn. Taking an immediate action taps the acting creature.” The Patch Up card doesn't seem to have a trigger though, and the first sentence from the rules indicates that immediate actions won't always have a trigger or be responding to something. So can Immediate order cards without a trigger be played at any time during any player's Refresh, Activate, Deploy, or Cleanup phase?
Same question for the Dwarf Cleric's Healing Touch, which is an immediate. Although in that case it seems more clear that he can only do that during his activation since "Use Creature Powers" is one of the 4 actions available for creatures to take when they are activated (move, play order cards, use creature powers, take other actions). But does that mean that's the ONLY time creature powers can be used? I imagine a dwarf cleric could use Healing Touch as an immediate on an opponents turn too as a reaction if he was untapped. But again, it's only during the Activate phase, not refresh, deploy, or cleanup.
Anyway, thanks for any light anyone can help shed on this.
It's a long thread so easy to miss, but this is actually one of the initial thread questions that got an official answer. You can use the Dwarf Cleric's ability as an immediate (per rulebook; any activated creature ability that doesn't specify is an immediate) and you can use immediates on any phase, yours or your opponent's (this is the clarification from earlier in the thread). So you can deploy a Dwarf Cleric and immediately heal someone if you deployed next to them.
How do you play "Battle Ready"?
The way I do it is as follows:
1. During one of my creature's activation phase, I tap target creature (maybe a Human Ranger) I control and attach "Battle Ready" to it. I tap Human Ranger since Battle Ready states it is a standard Order card.
2. Now, as a response to an opponent's action, let's say an order card that deals 50 damage, I remove Battle Ready from my creature to gain the "prevent 40 damage" effect.
My questions are:
a) Do I have to tap my creature when I remove the "Battle Ready" card from it, as part of an immediate action? OR
b) Do I just remove the order card without tapping my creature because I am using a creature power and I am not technically making an "immediate" action? (sorta, card rules overriding core rules) OR
c) can I only use the ability during my activation phase because the attached effect is considered a creature power now? (which I think is not the case)
Thanks in advance!
Welcome to DC!
I have a question regarding the creatures with scuttle:
So creatures with scuttle don't need to stop when moving adjacent to an enemy creature, but what I'm not sure about is what happens when a creature with scuttle starts it's activation adjacent to an enemy creature - it's speed becomes 1 but can it shift up to it's normal speed or it can only shift by 1 too?
I'm sorry if this question has alredy been asked.
Hello,
I have a question regarding the creatures with scuttle:
So creatures with scuttle don't need to stop when moving adjacent to an enemy creature, but what I'm not sure about is what happens when a creature with scuttle starts it's activation adjacent to an enemy creature - it's speed becomes 1 but can it shift up to it's normal speed or it can only shift by 1 too?
I'm sorry if this question has alredy been asked.
Unless otherwise noted it can shift upto it's speed....so when it's speed becomes 1, it can shift upto 1.
Question: what is the timing on Alarphon's special ability?
Just got my hands on HoC and ToG faction packs. My wife and I really enjoyed our initial games. Question: what is the timing on Alarphon's special ability?
You can use it any time, so basically like an Immediate. (But of course only once for each of your own turns, unlike an Immediate.)
Do large creatures pay extra again for moving their trailing two squares through difficult terrain? I made the image on the left demonstrating the question. My argument was that they only pay once (1, 2/3, 4, 5) theirs was they pay each time (1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).
I was basing my interpretation on the description of difficult terrain on p.10: "If a creature occupies multiple squares, its whole space is considered to enter difficult terrain simultaneously." And further up it says "Entering a square of difficult terrain costs 1 extra square of movement" (emphasis mine).
So my reasoning was that the whole creature is already in difficult terrain so it wasn't "entering" it again as the back two squares moved over it (and so didn't need to pay extra again). But I could easily be interpreting it incorrectly and/or mixing it up with the rules from the old D&D minis game and the 4e rpg rules.
Their argument was that parts of their space were entering difficult terrain so they should pay the penalty again (hence the 1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).
If anyone could offer the correct interpretation and/or point out where it is clearly explained I would really appreciate it. And apologies if this is already answered somewhere but I searched as much as possible before posting to make sure it wasn't clarified elsewhere.
We've always used your second example picture, basically counting from the front square(s) entering and not counting the back square(s)....although we also haven't been able to justify this entirely from the rules as written, it made sense to all of us, so we agreed to play it that way.
As far as we've always played the reading of the rule about large creatures and 'entering' difficult terrain, it was there only so that a 2x2 critter didn't get 'double charged' if it simultaneously entered 2 or more squares of difficult terrain.
If it continues to move over the same square of difficult terrain it does pay double again (the same rule paragraph states this clearly ' the creature pays just 1 extra square for each square it moves, not for each square its space enters').
So if it moves 2 squares over difficult it pays the extra 1 twice, and it will move two over it, unless it moves diagonally away.
The questions about corners is a good question. I'd believe all corners would just be corners, since the rule do not define different styles of corners (if it does, I'm not seeing it). I just played a game today and we noticed the different between walls on the above ground side (round with only a few corners). But because the rules didn't define one or the other, we played it like the normal corner rules. I'd like to see an official response on this since it would be a big deal in movement and ranged attacks.
The confusion is because of the term 'dungeon'. I know the game is called Dungeon Command, but...
P. 4 'Each tile...has two sides...One shows a dungeon environment, while the other is an outdoor setting.'
So you're not always fighting in a 'dungeon' - 'Warbands fight on the 'battlefield'. (also P.4)
P. 9 moving mentions a creature 'cannot move diagonally around the corner of a dungeon wall'.
Illustration at bottom of P.11 clearly shows war wizard sliding diagonally across an outdoor corner.
To me, players on adjacent corner would not be able to attack each other. I kind of take it as cover. You would have to come out one square to do an attack. But I'd like to see an official response regarding hard corners and attacking as well.
The rules say you are adjacent to a character across a hard corner. The rules say melee attacks can be done to characters that are adjacent. The rules make no explicit exception for hard corners. Ergo, you can melee attack across a hard corner.
Now, if you really want to talk about ambiguous rules, tell me how hard corners work with Reach 2, because I have no frakking clue.
Personally I'd go with the theory that the simplest solution about what the rules probably mean is almost certainly what they were intended to mean, and go with that.
The Horned Devil caused problems when people pointed out that you have to stop moving when 'adjacent' to an enemy, and that your move becomes 1, but that isn't what was intended.
It's not movement and it's not a ranged power, it doesn't say 'within x', it says '2 spaces away'.
For me that's pretty obvious. It's the ones adjacent to the ones adjacent to you. Squares are always diagonally adjacent. And 'cover' only affects ranged attacks.
I don't think they covered it anywhere, but I would protest about anyone who tried to attack through an obstacle, when they can't see what they're hitting, even though LoS isn't needed for melee attacks (if in doubt think about 'blidnfighting' in tabletop).
So, now that Curse is out, I'm back with a round of questions for my tournament tomorrow! I'd love another official response but consensus on what feels best would be helpful too.
So, a couple of sorta-similar questions about two orders.
Call to Battle: "As a standard action, deploy 1 creature now. If this creature is in a magic circle, gain 1 morale before deploying." This implies to me that I can just use a standard to gain 1 morale if I'm in a magic circle and want to (say because I don't have enough leadership to actualy deploy anything) but this could be a Magic bias showing through. On the other hand, 1 morale for a standard action on a level 3+ dude hardly seems broken. Anyway, I'd love to know the intent here.
Swarm of Bats: "Prevent all damage to this creature from one source, then shift 6 squares." So, my interpretation of this is that the shift happens after the source resolves, but isn't contingent on preventing damage. So it basically sets up what we'd call in Magic a "delayed trigger" that resolves after the chosen source does and causes you to shift 6. So I've got two conclusions here that I want to make sure I'm right about:
1. If the damage can't be prevented, say due to Piercing Strike or Magic Short Sword, I still get to shift (I am pretty sure of this one)
2. (The less clear case) It seems pretty clear I can't just play this card to shift 6 whenever I like, since if I can't pick a source, I can't set up the delayed trigger. But, can I play it if the source (ie, some random thing on the stack) isn't even trying to do damage to the creature? In other words, if I want to move my Vampire Stalker around, and my opponent is attacking some Skeleton somewhere else on the board, can I play Swarm of Bats, prevent the damage to the Vampire (even though the attack doesn't target the Vampire), and then shift the Vampire 6? It seems like I should be able to, but I'm not sure this is the intended effect.
Thanks!
Call to Battle - definately agree that you have to actually deploy a creature to be able to gain the morale from this - how embarassed would your leader be if he called for more allies and no-one came? That should reduce morale instead...
Swarm of Bats -
way we have been playing this may reduce your hatred of magic short sword.
It's already been posted that you can play damage prevents even if the damage can't be prevented (think example was a riposte), so that's not an issue.
Effects resolve in reverse order, then you check validity of targetted effects...
So you get to shift 6, then the attack resolves after checking validity.
Melee attack requires target is adjacent, so if you've shifted 6 you probably won't be, so attack fizzles.
Ranged obviously just needs LoS and target to be in range (or AoE for Fireball), so if you can get behind a wall you could be OK.
We could be doing it wrong, but we've tried to stick to the rules we know as printed.
On 2, I wish this were true, but I think it isn't, because Swarm of Bats says to prevent damage "then" shift, which seems to me to mean you have to shift after the damage happens. (If it just said "Prevent all damage from an attack. Shift 6" then you'd be clearly right.)
A few cards have more than one sentence in a block of text, so for clarity's sake I would say: Each paragraph on a card is a different action. Even if that paragraph is only one sentence long.
you then play cloud of bats on top of it. cloud prevents all damage from one source of your choosing and lets you shift 6.
you then shift 6 and have resolved cloud of bats, the attack underneath then resolves where your character takes the damage which may be 0 if the cloud of bats prevented it all.
so short sword will still do it's damage even if you move away. you can not use cloud of bats to "dodge" a fireball for example. even though you are able to reduce the damage to 0.
if the stack worked in such a way that the shift 6 removed you as an eligable target of an attack then it would not need to reduce damage for one, and for 2 the attack would never exist for you to use cloud of bats in response to.
*edit: I should note that as far as I know, you can play an interupt in response to any action. So when that big nasty man with a magic short sword moves adjacent to your important guy you don't want to die. play cloud of bats in response to his movement and shift 6 away. thus leaving you 6 squares away from him and unable to be targeted by an unpreventable attack.
If the attack is already on the stack then it has a confirmed target and is already in play. the requirement to play the attack is to be adjacent. so you play the attack and it goes on the stack as unresolved damage to teh target creature.
you then play cloud of bats on top of it. cloud prevents all damage from one source of your choosing and lets you shift 6.
you then shift 6 and have resolved cloud of bats, the attack underneath then resolves where your character takes the damage which may be 0 if the cloud of bats prevented it all.
I disagree. We've already had rulings that the source must still be valid for the attack not to 'fizzle' (if you kill an opposing creature with Riposte, the attack that triggered Riposte will NOT hit you... this was confirmed by WotC), and I expect the same for the target. If you've moved away and the attack is now invalid, the attack should just fizzle.
I can't imagine thats the intent of the card.
wow really they ruled that riposte can canel the card it responds to? that's just horrible.
I think Riposte/Sieze the Opportunity cancelling attacks is fine; it's different from Magic but makes those cards actually good whereas they previously sucked, so I'm down.
Also, I 100% agree that if Cloud of Bats said "Prevent all damage from a source. Shift 6", it would allow you to dodge melee attacks (and ranged attacks if you could get out of range/LOS). This actually works just like Magic, where a target has to be legal when a spell resolves, not just when you play it. It's also consitent with all DC rulings so far. So I think assuming you shift before the triggering attack resolves, you should be able to dodge attacks.
On the other hand, the wording of Cloud of Bats is both unusual and very specific: "Prevent all damage from a source, then shift 6." It isn't as clear as I'd like, but it's very different wording from anything else, and IMO strongly implies that you move after the damage is dealt. This also makes it work better as noted above.
"Prevent all damage from a source, then shift 6." It isn't as clear as I'd like, but it's very different wording from anything else, and IMO strongly implies that you move after the damage is dealt.
Ugh, you're right, it's either poor templating or the effect is:
Declare attack. [Attack]
Declare CoB. [Attack "Prevent then shift 6"]. (If it was worded "Prevent all damage from one source. Shift 6." the stack would be [Attack Shift6 Prevent] but it's only one sentence.)
CoB statement resolves. [Attack]
Attack resolves. Damage is prevented (or not, with Magic Shortsword) [Shift6]
Shift resolves.
'Then' as a conjunction is usually just a timing statement.
'If...then...' would be a conditional statement.
We already have conditional clauses with 'if the target takes damage from this attack'.
Since they know how to write those, why assume that this is another conditional when it isn't written that way?
The shadowy ambush card is printed as:
"Shift 2 squares.
Make a melee attack that deals 50 damage"
However, in the write up on 'multiple actions on cards' (p.9) it is written as:
"two actions:Shift 2 squares; then, Make a melee attack that deals 50 damage"
The word 'then' serves here only to place the actions in order, not to make one conditional on the other.
Note that 'players can respond to each action separately' when a card has multiple actions.
What I am undecided on is whether you can interrupt between the damage prevent and the shift in cloud.
Is it one action with two effects, or two actions? Is this why it's one sentance instead of two?
CoB is still not an automatic get out of jail free card though.
Imagine you get attacked when there are two creatures next to you.
You tap to play CoB, the second then hits you with Seize (and perhaps poison?). You're still not well.
Oh, and of course, this 'full evade' tactic fails completely before a L1 Int card (Web)!
That's what I love about this game, so many exquisite ways the cards spoil each other, and stop each other being broken.
'Then' certainly does not imply that the shift from cloud resolves after the card played before it on the stack.
If it did you'd never be able to kill an attacker and make his attack fizzle before it hits (because as we've seen above multiple actions on cards have an implied 'then', like shadowy ambush.
Damage prevention always resolves before the damage it 'soaks', you don't take the damage and then wind it back, you shield yourself against anticipated damage, thus taking less later when you actually do get hit.
What clinched it for me was... "Sometimes resolving an action on the stack makes another action on the stack impossible to resolve. For example an effect moves or destroys the target of a second effect below it on the stack. In this case the second action does nothing when it would resolve - it is simply removed from the stack."
So we have riposte and seize, which can destroy the attacker (other way round here, but WotC have validated this ruling).
Anyone volunteering any options for immediate effects that can move the target, as described? or the attacker?
I can think of two candidates, and Cloud of Bats is one of them.
The other is when an earth guardian uses seize to push his attacker out of melee reach...(now there's a cool trick, assuming it would work)
As we're 4 sets in, I'd say it's a safe bet that cloud is one of the cards this text was written for specifically, we know they designed most of, if not all of, the first 5 sets before they released the rules and I don't imagine many 'evade' cards will be in the orc set.
Could be wrong, after all, we don't really know what wisdom does, apart from card draw.
Perhaps the wise orc has had plenty of practice moving away before the ogre clobbers him for kicks?
I agree with you that Earth Guardian can push people out of the way with Seize the Opportunit. That never occurred to me and is sweet as all heck. I will definitely try doing that, though I suspect the Guardian still basically sucks since he's Str-only and not a Humanoid. Maybe BoG will give us enough awesome Strength stuff to make that ok, or his being an Elemental will make me want to use him with the Druid or something.
I still disagree on the Cloud because other effects that contain two different abilities that resolve one at a time have clear separate lines of text, separated not only by periods but by complete line breaks. I see what you're saying on the rulebook, but the whole point of the rulebook is to explain the technical language in plan language terms, so I think it's use of then doesn't indicate the phrasing is interchangable in technical language (I certainly hope it isn't). But I certainly agree it's not an open-and-shut case or 100% unambiguous. This is why a full Comp Rules equivalent for DC would be nice, and failing that it'd be nice to have some more official response on boards or via FAQ
Thanks to everyone who has responded, but I still feel like my first question hasn't been addressed. I may have been unclear.
In short, the question is: when do you assign the target of an attack action? Do you select a target as the attack/order goes onto the stack? Or, do you select the target when the attack/order goes to resolve?
My original example with Shadowy Ambush wasn't a question about the card, but just an illustration as to why such a question matters.
I know that assigning as the action goes on the stack seems more intuitive (at least to me), but I am hoping to find an official answer / offical source for this. Thanks!
From rulebook p.8:
Effects, sources and targets
You choose the targets for an order card when you play it...when the ability resolves it checks whether the target is legal...
A) Is assistance an action?
B) Does assistance use the stack?
C) Can I play in response to an assistance?
Thanks!!!
As far as I am aware you can only respond to an attack. As such the act of assisting does not warrant a response. However if the assisted action is an attack, then you can respond to either of the creatures, provided they are adjacent to you, as normal.
I think this sounds correct to me. Just as you can't respond to a creature tapping to play a standard, you respond to the action itself being played. Assiting is just 'paying the cost' to do some action, it's the actions you respond to, not the paying.
As far as I am aware you can only respond to an attack. As such the act of assisting does not warrant a response. However if the assisted action is an attack, then you can respond to either of the creatures, provided they are adjacent to you, as normal.
I think this sounds correct to me. Just as you can't respond to a creature tapping to play a standard, you respond to the action itself being played. Assiting is just 'paying the cost' to do some action, it's the actions you respond to, not the paying.
It's clear thanks alot!
Mage Hand and Feint allow you to tap a creature as a Minor action.
Near Miss can be used as an Immediate Action and Prevents 20 damage, but also untaps the creature. So, he wanted to use Near Miss on the stack of my Mage Hand/Feint.
In my mind, Mage Hand or Feint taps him and is unable to use an immediate.
In his mind, Mage Hand or Feint starts the stack and he can use an immediate because of the following text under THE STACK in the rule book:
"When an action would take place, it doesn't happen right away. Each player gets a chance to respond to it with further actions."
Since Mage Hand and Feint are actions, they go on the stack first. The stack resolves from the bottom up, so he first taps because Mage Hand/Feint tap and then Near Miss untaps him.
Which way is correct?
In my mind, Mage Hand or Feint taps him and is unable to use an immediate.
In his mind, Mage Hand or Feint starts the stack and he can use an immediate because of the following text under THE STACK in the rule book:
"When an action would take place, it doesn't happen right away. Each player gets a chance to respond to it with further actions."
Since Mage Hand and Feint are actions, they go on the stack first. The stack resolves from the bottom up, so he first taps because Mage Hand/Feint tap and then Near Miss untaps him.
Which way is correct?
Neither. You're both wrong. He's right that he can respond to your Mage Hand with his Near Miss. Mage Hand goes on the stack, he can tap in response to use Near Miss, so then the stack is
(top)
Near Miss
Mage Hand
(bottom)
The stack then resolves *top first*. His Near Miss resolves, he untaps. Then Mage Hand resolves, and he taps again.
So yeah, while he CAN certainly respond to Mage Hand with Near Miss, it's completely useless to do so.
In my mind, Mage Hand or Feint taps him and is unable to use an immediate.
In his mind, Mage Hand or Feint starts the stack and he can use an immediate because of the following text under THE STACK in the rule book:
"When an action would take place, it doesn't happen right away. Each player gets a chance to respond to it with further actions."
Since Mage Hand and Feint are actions, they go on the stack first. The stack resolves from the bottom up, so he first taps because Mage Hand/Feint tap and then Near Miss untaps him.
Which way is correct?
Neither. You're both wrong. He's right that he can respond to your Mage Hand with his Near Miss. Mage Hand goes on the stack, he can tap in response to use Near Miss, so then the stack is
(top)
Near Miss
Mage Hand
(bottom)
The stack then resolves *top first*. His Near Miss resolves, he untaps. Then Mage Hand resolves, and he taps again.
So yeah, while he CAN certainly respond to Mage Hand with Near Miss, it's completely useless to do so.
Thanks for the reply. For some reason, I had it in my head that the stack resolved from the bottom up.
In the picture below. Can the war wizard cast a fireball behind the ogre? Would the druid and Drudge be hit? I ruled the fireball cannot be cast because the war wizard does not have line of sight. A player argued that he could trace LOS from the lower right hand corner of the war wizard in a straight line to the fireball sqare. He tried to reason he could shoot along the wall of dungeon and cliff wall tiles.
Thanks for your input. Edit 3/8/13 I removed the first picture so that this post wasn't as confusing.
Agreed. By definition any line there has to go through a square that contains either an ogre or a wall.
The interesting question to me: if that ogre were north of open space, rather than north of a wall, I think the fireball would probably be legal by RAW, though it seems kind of weird. Thoughts?
Quick question about an order card in Blood of Gruumsh. Does Savage Demise and Death Strike work together? This would mean if I knew my Wereboar was going to die, I would play Savage Demise make an attack against one tapped enemy creature. I then would destroy my Wereboar. However with Death Strike when a creature would be destroyed I can first make another melee attack. Played a couple games last night and the group I played with was split. Just was wanting your thoughts.
I don't see why it wouldn't work. I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a cool thing to do with the Wereboar.
Quick question about an order card in Blood of Gruumsh. Does Savage Demise and Death Strike work together? This would mean if I knew my Wereboar was going to die, I would play Savage Demise make an attack against one tapped enemy creature. I then would destroy my Wereboar. However with Death Strike when a creature would be destroyed I can first make another melee attack. Played a couple games last night and the group I played with was split. Just was wanting your thoughts.
You are correct. Savage demise resolves with the attack against a tapped target first. The second effect is to destroy your creature which triggers the death strike.
The beauty of this card is that your opponent might have spent an order attack boosting card targeting your wereboar and in response YOU smack them back twice. Of course your creature dies but it was going to die anyways and they wasted a order card.
I have a question:
Can dwarf defenders defend themselves if they level up, or do they require a second, adjacent dwarf defender in order to gain block 10? I would think based on reading the card that it would require a second defender since it specifies adjacent creatures. Also, the dwarf cleric's ability specifies adjacent allies or himself. I am curious about what others think about this though, and if there has ever been an official ruling.
So we're not sure which triggers first, the Earth Guardian's Slam, which shifts the Boar 3 squares, or the Boar's Deathstrike, which allows it to do 20 damage before it kicks the bucket. That 20 HP ended up being the difference between my Earth Guardian dying vs. retreating back behind its own lines.
My argument is that the slam is part of the damage that kills the Boar, so the Boar goes crashing into the wall, gets shakily to its feet, lashes out and then collapses as it breathes its last. She argues that it retaliates as the Earth Guardian hits it, striking back before the Guardian whacks it away. We tried figuring it out from the point of view of the stack, but we aren't sure how triggered actions sit in the stack, so we're at a loss.
Opinions?
So a friend and I just played our second game with the Orcs, this time with me taking her on under the banner of Cormyr. I like using the Earth Guardian to push aggressively in the early game, and I managed to corner her Boar with Daring Attack as it was rooting through a pile of treasure. I did 30 damage, untapped as per the order card, and then did 30 more, killing the boar. So we're not sure which triggers first, the Earth Guardian's Slam, which shifts the Boar 3 squares, or the Boar's Deathstrike, which allows it to do 20 damage before it kicks the bucket. That 20 HP ended up being the difference between my Earth Guardian dying vs. retreating back behind its own lines. My argument is that the slam is part of the damage that kills the Boar, so the Boar goes crashing into the wall, gets shakily to its feet, lashes out and then collapses as it breathes its last. She argues that it retaliates as the Earth Guardian hits it, striking back before the Guardian whacks it away. We tried figuring it out from the point of view of the stack, but we aren't sure how triggered actions sit in the stack, so we're at a loss. Opinions?
I think this isn't 100% clear from the RAW, sadly. Earth Guardian's ability triggers when it deals damage, and immediately goes on the stack. Depending on when exactly creatures die, it's either going to go on the stack simultaneousely, or slightly after. In MTG there's a state-based actions check just for this purpose. Because DC is pretty clearly inspired by the Magic rules, if it came up in an event I'd probably rule that Death Strike goes on the stack slightly after the slam (and so resolves first) but I could certainly see it going either way, and would love some official clarification. Maybe someone who knows this stuff will be at the PAX East event and I can harrass them with a laundry list of clarifications
Side note: you can't use Heroic Surge to untap the Earth Guardian because Heroic Surge requires the target to be an Adventurer and the Earth Guardian sadly isn't.
Side note: you can't use Heroic Surge to untap the Earth Guardian because Heroic Surge requires the target to be an Adventurer and the Earth Guardian sadly isn't.
I wasn't using Heroic Surge though. Daring Attack untaps the attacker if it does damage.
I wasn't using Heroic Surge though. Daring Attack untaps the attacker if it does damage.
Ah right, I haven't used that card in forever so I forgot it existed. My bad, carry on!
Ah right, I haven't used that card in forever so I forgot it existed. My bad, carry on!
I'm itching to combine the old Strength-based Cormyr cards with the newer ones introduced with the Orcs. I can just imagine a Strength & Constitution-based faction combining the best of the two sets with the Constitution cards from ToG. Ahhhhh ... the possibilities.
Fire Trap - Level 2
Dex
Minor
Requires Humanoid
Choose 1 hazardous terrain square. Deal 20 Damage to each creature within 2 squares of that square.
Does the creature using Fire Trap need line of sight and/or line of effect to the hazardous terrain square?
The rule that hangs me up is under Distances and Counting on Page 13:
"The acting creature must have line of sight to the target unless otherwise specified"
Fire Trap has no printed distance, so do we assume it doesn't follow these rules (or do we infer the distance is infinite)?
Distance should be infinite, but LOS required, just from reading the cards.
Yeah this came up for me in a game awhile ago but if you read the rulebook it's quite clear that whenever you're targetting anything you need to have line of sight to it unless otherwise stated. So for fireball you need los to the square you target, but not necissarily to the creatures being affected. One non-exception but interesting point is Terrifying Revelation which does not require los because it does not target anything on the board.
Just buy a DM screen, if they tap their Dracolich at a suspicious time dive for cover behind it.
Yeah this came up for me in a game awhile ago but if you read the rulebook it's quite clear that whenever you're targetting anything you need to have line of sight to it unless otherwise stated. So for fireball you need los to the square you target, but not necissarily to the creatures being affected. One non-exception but interesting point is Terrifying Revelation which does not require los because it does not target anything on the board.
Just buy a DM screen, if they tap their Dracolich at a suspicious time dive for cover behind it.
lol!!
Player A and B both have 1 morale left. Player A destroys Player B's Boar (level 3) but in the process, Deathstrike goes off and kills Player A's Drow Blademaster (level 3). Assume they both have 12 levels of units on the board after these attacks go off. Who wins the game, or is it a draw?
Thinking about how the stack works, I believe Player B would win the game. Player A makes an attack that would deal lethal damage, so that goes on the bottom of the stack. Deathstrike would then pop on top of the stack and resolve first. This would cause the Blademaster to technically die first and Player A would go past 0 morale before Player B. But then again, I've been plenty wrong about rules in this game before.
Deathstrike reads: When this creature would be destroyed, it can first make a melee attack that deals melee damage).
Player A and B both have 1 morale left. Player A destroys Player B's Boar (level 3) but in the process, Deathstrike goes off and kills Player A's Drow Blademaster (level 3). Assume they both have 12 levels of units on the board after these attacks go off. Who wins the game, or is it a draw?
Thinking about how the stack works, I believe Player B would win the game. Player A makes an attack that would deal lethal damage, so that goes on the bottom of the stack. Deathstrike would then pop on top of the stack and resolve first. This would cause the Blademaster to technically die first and Player A would go past 0 morale before Player B. But then again, I've been plenty wrong about rules in this game before.
I think it's a little different than this (the attack resolves first) but I think your conclusion is probably right, because of the wording of Death Strike - it makes the attack before being actually destroyed.
If the player controlling the blademaster cowers for the damage he or she should win, because they have more leadership deployed.
Huh, so in that case the idea is that the Death Striking creature dies as part of resolution, and the enemy creature does too? That's not unreasonable, I think that's a defensible interpreation. I'd go the other way because to me "it can first" implies you resolve the whole attack before it dies, but sadly added to the ambiguous list
Deathstrike triggers when a creature would be destroyed, in Ellerons example it's after blademasters attack resolves and the stack is clear. The boar would be destroyed at this point but it first can make a melee attack. Boom, both creatures die.
DS doesn't add an immediate trigger above the blademasters attack. It creates it's own stack when it would be destroyed.
In the previous example if both players had 1 morale and 12 levels of deployed leadership the drow player could cower for the 20 damage boar (or is it 30?) attacks for and still win.
In the previous example if both players had 1 morale and 12 levels of deployed leadership the drow player could cower for the 20 damage boar (or is it 30?) attacks for and still win.
I don't think you're allowed to cower if you don't have enough morale....don't have rulebook here, but pretty sure that won't work.
Me and my friend have different opinions about what is a legal source and what is not, and if a source is required at all to use certain actions. So we'd appriciate if someone would help us clarify this. The more replies the better!
Can we use for example Riposte as an action eventhough there is no damage to be prevented? Just using it to make a melee attack for 10 points of damage?
Or could we use Parry just to draw a card eventhough there's no damage to prevent?
Or does these two cards (and some other cards alike) require a source of damage to be used, or else they have no legal target (source) and therefor they'd cancel. And due to multiple effects on cards rule the "melee attack for 10 pts", or the "draw a card" effect would also cancel?
Can we use for example Riposte as an action eventhough there is no damage to be prevented? Just using it to make a melee attack for 10 points of damage?
Or could we use Parry just to draw a card eventhough there's no damage to prevent?
Or does these two cards (and some other cards alike) require a source of damage to be used, or else they have no legal target (source) and therefor they'd cancel. And due to multiple effects on cards rule the "melee attack for 10 pts", or the "draw a card" effect would also cancel?
Can we use for example Riposte as an action eventhough there is no damage to be prevented? Just using it to make a melee attack for 10 points of damage?
Or could we use Parry just to draw a card eventhough there's no damage to prevent?
Playing an immediate reaction requires a valid trigger. You cannot play them whenever you like. I don't have my rule book handy, but I'm pretty sure it's stated like that.
It says something like "whenever you are resolving an action you need to determine it's source". So does that mean i need a valid trigger to use Riposte or Parry?
Correct, there needs to be a valid acation on the stack. What needs to be true for an action to be valid, on the other hand, is not totally clear.
It also says in the next sentence that "Each source is a single effect from a creature, an Order card, a terrain square, or other game feature."
So could a hazardous terrain square be a source eventhough it has not dealt any damage to you yet?
Sorry if i go on about this...
Mar 25, 2013 -- 1:51AM, Cederborg wrote:
And it also says that "many actions specify a target, which require you to choose something". You could argue that the target on Parry ("Prevent 20 damage from 1 source") is the 1 source. Therefor you can't cast parry without having a target (source).
About the example on page 9. Chris is targeting the damage from the Killing Strike melee attack with Uncanny dodge.
You quoted it yourself but left out the whole example.
"Jennifer playes the Killing Strike card on her Dragon Knight tapping it to make a melee attack against an enemy Drider for 100 damage. Killing Strike goes on to the stack. Chris dosen't want to lose his Drider so he responds to this by playing the Uncanny Dodge".
MULTIPLE ACTIONS ON CARDS: Page number 9 states that when there are multiple actions on cards they go on the stack in reverse order they appear on card. So on the Uncanny dodge you place Prevent all damage first (just like on the example), and on top of that discard a card. Then you got discard a card on top which resolves first, then you have Prevent all damage. BUT on Parry you put Draw 1 Order card first on stack and then Prevent 10 damage on top of that which resolves first. So you first Prevent damage, then you draw a card. It's the same with Riposte and it's melee attack. This brings up the question whether or not you need a target source for Parry and Riposte like a Damage to prevent since that is the action on the card that comes first. Because when you resolve that first action on the Parry or Riposte card (Prevent damage) and no damage has been dealth, there is no source.
Sorry I was short last time, was just coming in quickly. This is one of the questions I asked Chris Tulach, the head judge at the PAX tournament. His answer was:
-You need to be able to pick a source to be able to play a card. (Order of effects listed on the card isn't relevant - you can't play a card with a prevention ability without being able to pick a source.)
-He needs to check with the game designers about what, if anything, needs to be true of the source.
So right now it's clear that you can play it if there's a source that the damage prevention would do something against. Where it gets tricky is whether the card has to have the potential to do something or not. In other words, can I play it and target a "source" that doesn't even try to do damage (like a Behind Enemy Lines) just to play the card? What about if the source would be able to do damage but that damage is unpreventable (Magic Short Sword etc)? I think people are going to have gut-feeling ideas about these but we just need to wait on the official ruling.
If the the enemy has Piercing Strike or the Magic Short Sword and uses it against you, Can you use Savage Demise to do an Attack?
You can certainly do that - Savage Demise doesn't have any damage prevention involved, so you can actually use it to make an attack more or less any time as long as your creature is untapped. For example, you can use it on their turn more or less immediately, before they even start activating their dudes, if you want.
The more interesting question (which I'm hoping Chris will email me back about once he recovers from PAX) is whether you can use a card like Riposte or Defensive Advantage against a Magic Short Sword attack just to do the damage or draw the card or whatever.
Sorry I was short last time, was just coming in quickly. This is one of the questions I asked Chris Tulach, the head judge at the PAX tournament. His answer was:
-You need to be able to pick a source to be able to play a card. (Order of effects listed on the card isn't relevant - you can't play a card with a prevention ability without being able to pick a source.)
-He needs to check with the game designers about what, if anything, needs to be true of the source.
So right now it's clear that you can play it if there's a source that the damage prevention would do something against. Where it gets tricky is whether the card has to have the potential to do something or not. In other words, can I play it and target a "source" that doesn't even try to do damage (like a Behind Enemy Lines) just to play the card? What about if the source would be able to do damage but that damage is unpreventable (Magic Short Sword etc)? I think people are going to have gut-feeling ideas about these but we just need to wait on the official ruling.
My interpretation is:
1. Target and Source are two different things.
2. Actions that require a target needs you to explicitly choose that target when the action is played, based on:
Many actions specify a target, which requires you to choose something (such as a creature or an Order card). You choose the targets for an Order card when you play it, and you choose targets for a creature’s power when you use it. Once you choose targets, you cannot change your mind later. When the action resolves, it checks whether the target is legal (it’s still in play, is still in range, has the right keywords, and so on).
See, an effect (each source is a single effect from a creature, an Order card, a terrain square, or other game feature) does not even have the kind of attributes that we're talking about when we talk about target: Still in play, still in range, has the right keywords, etc..
3. Actions that require a source, determines the source when the action is resolved, not when its played. Based on:
When resolving an action, you need to determine its source. each source is a single effect from a creature, an Order card, a terrain square, or other game feature.
On the other hand, if a card like Parry ie, explicitly said "Prevent 20 damage to this creature from 1 target source", it would be a whole other bag of potatoes...
But based on what you're saying Ultiville, should we interpret the rules in a way that whenever it says 0..n source on a card, that actually means "target source/s", so that playing the Action requires that we state a target source?
That still leaves open for scenarios like this, no?:
Player1 plays Standard attack on Player1_Creature1, targetting Player2_Creature1
Player1_Attack1 goes on the stack
Player2 responds to the attack action by playing the Parry order card on Player2_Creature2 (In no way involved in the fight, might even be on the other side of the playing field) targetting the Player1_Attack1 effect as the source of the Parry (Valid target source as far as I can see from your interpretation)
No more responses.
Parry resolves, Prevents 20 damage from Player1_Attack1 on Player2_Creature2 (which will never happen), and Player2 draws an order card.
Player1_Attack1 resolves, dealing 20 damage to Player2_Creature1
Unfortunately unlike Magic, DC isn't great about explicitly using "target" when it means it. I would say yes, that "a source" is indicating "target source" in this game.
The rules say nothing about immediate actions requiring a valid trigger. This is what the rules say about playing immediate actions:
"Immediate actions are usually responses to other actions. They can be played on any player’s turn. Taking an immediate action taps the acting creature"
Yep, sorry about this. I suppose we always played it like that because that's how Immediate actions work in D&D 4e.
Unfortunately, compared to other CCGs the Dungeon Command card templating and the rules explaining their interactions is pretty bad.
Spawn of Kyuss: Level 1 CON, Minor -Requires Undead. Attach this card to this creature. Each enemy creature that ends it's activation adjacent to this creature takes 10 damage.
I'm hoping it does, imagine a tomb guardian dealing 30-40 damage when you end activation adjacent to him.
Do multiple copies of spawn of kyuss stack on the same creature. Spawn of Kyuss: Level 1 CON, Minor -Requires Undead. Attach this card to this creature. Each enemy creature that ends it's activation adjacent to this creature takes 10 damage. I'm hoping it does, imagine a tomb guardian dealing 30-40 damage when you end activation adjacent to him.
I don't see why it wouldn't. As far as I can tell the only things that don't stack are "named" abilities, ie Block and Regeneration.
I wish call to battle worked as an immediate and delthrin wasn't soo balanced. He would look alot more attractive with a +1 bump in order,creature hand or leadership, just one category. Or a +2 in morale. Maybe even making his ability trigger out of your own turn, he could rival tarkon in a 3-player game. Tarkon is godly, your opponents can't cower against themselves nevermind you.
If i make a melee attack with Orc and kill adjacent creature, untap Orc Barbarian, Can i make a new melee against other creatures?
Thanks
You can actually go crazy with these guys:
Things like Quick Shot and other Minor Action attacks, along with a Magic Short Sword (unpreventable damage, not even Cowering will work) and movement cards like Into the Fray and Spring Attack can turn these guys into cyclones of senseless destruction if you can set them up right.
And if you start adjacent to an enemy piece, remember that you can spend your Standard action to make a kill on the adjacent piece, then un-tap, THEN move and attack another piece with Minors and such, and then spend your Standard action for the kill, and keep going with more Minor actions (Into the Fray, etc). It's pretty fun! (for you)
Yes, you can. Same thing with the level 4 Bugbear Berserker (Goblins set), who has the same special ability.
You can actually go crazy with these guys:
Things like Quick Shot and other Minor Action attacks, along with a Magic Short Sword (unpreventable damage, not even Cowering will work) and movement cards like Into the Fray and Spring Attack can turn these guys into cyclones of senseless destruction if you can set them up right.
And if you start adjacent to an enemy piece, remember that you can spend your Standard action to make a kill on the adjacent piece, then un-tap, THEN move and attack another piece with Minors and such, and then spend your Standard action for the kill, and keep going with more Minor actions (Into the Fray, etc). It's pretty fun! (for you)
The minor action / tap / move + standard aspects work so immensely well in a miniature game setting. Not to preach to the choir but I really hope thy make one more set. Then six of us can do tournaments each with a different faction. That would keep me pleased for a long, long while.
Rule Question regarding the summoning circles: does a large creature that takes up four spaces have to be fully within the circle, or just a portion of its base touching to deploy legally there?
My apologies if this has been asked -- I'm working through the 2o pages.
Here's a puzzler from a friend of mine so I'm asking on his behalf.
If I deploy an adventurer 4 times with Behind Enemy Lines (i.e. attach it to the said adventurer), does it mean that I gain 16 Morale when it reaches my start zone?
Thanks to everyone who can help and I would also like an "official" answer.
Since it's a minor, I'll assume I can only play it on my adventurer during its activation (as stated in rulebook). If that's so, wouldn't it have to be in play first? Which means I'd already have deployed it in my start zone.... which would mean your answer above has wierd interactions/repercussions.
Thanks for the help. I just need to wrap my head around this.
Eg. A goblin cutter moves, makes an attack, and then uses the minor action behind enemy lines to deploy a dragon knight. Then the cutter finishes its activation. Then the dragon knight can activate. The dragon knight starts in the enemy deploy zone with BEL attached.
You play it on using any creature you already have deployed. It doesn't have to be an adventurer, only the creature you deploy has to be an adventurer.
Eg. A goblin cutter moves, makes an attack, and then uses the minor action behind enemy lines to deploy a dragon knight. Then the cutter finishes its activation. Then the dragon knight can activate. The dragon knight starts in the enemy deploy zone with BEL attached.
Thanks ComradeOne. This reply has been extremely helpful!
Only for your First Turn (starting) , or is possible every turn in deploying phase?
Thanks
Hi Guys, a question: Lokar of the stonelands : when you deploy starting orc creatures, you can deploy one of them in any unoccupied Treasure square on the board.
Only for your First Turn (starting) , or is possible every turn in deploying phase?
Thanks
Only first deployment of the game (during setup). Not every turn.
Eg/ Wearboar using furious bellow slides an ogre which was adjacent to him 2 squares to the left over one, and then a second difficult terrain tile. Ogre is tapped and takes 20 damage, ten per square of difficult terrain it entered.
My question is: did I calculate the damage correctly?
I followed it up with a stomp for the kill xD (there was a spirit just to the right)
So he would not have been able to move in to both squares. So 10 damage
Shifting would let you go the 2 squares.
also the rules state that "The 1st time you move in to hazardous terrain during an activation, ( yours or your enemys ) it is dealt 10 damage."
Which is where we come in to conflict at least in my group. Some say that you take damage from every square of H.T. While others say it is only the first time you enter an area of H.T. you take 10 not for every square. so in your instance the Ogre would only take 10 even when moving the whole way.
Yes, you can. Same thing with the level 4 Bugbear Berserker (Goblins set), who has the same special ability.
You can actually go crazy with these guys:
Things like Quick Shot and other Minor Action attacks, along with a Magic Short Sword (unpreventable damage, not even Cowering will work) and movement cards like Into the Fray and Spring Attack can turn these guys into cyclones of senseless destruction if you can set them up right.
And if you start adjacent to an enemy piece, remember that you can spend your Standard action to make a kill on the adjacent piece, then un-tap, THEN move and attack another piece with Minors and such, and then spend your Standard action for the kill, and keep going with more Minor actions (Into the Fray, etc). It's pretty fun! (for you)
So with Bugbear or Orc Berserker i can't make for example MOVE / Melee attack/ kill adjacent enemy / untap / move / attack anorher .... Only one move in all the turn...is right?
I guess the bigger issue is does the rule book mean entering difficult terrain in a general sense and therefore treat it as a patch of terrain or does it mean each individual tile of difficult terrain (I'm leaning towards the latter).
So with Bugbear or Orc Berserker i can't make for example MOVE / Melee attack/ kill adjacent enemy / untap / move / attack anorher .... Only one move in all the turn...is right?
You only get one move action per creature per activation. And you only get one activation of each creature per turn. That's why there are no cards that consume the "move" action - they are either standards or minors. Really, you have unlimited standards and minors, but standards require you to tap, and if you cannot tap, you cannot play a standard. Normal attacks or order cards labelled "standard" are standard actions.
So the key for bezerkers is to use standards that include some aspect of movement like chage, shadowy ambush, etc.
No problem, all of us are obviously still learning the intricacies of this game!
i know
. I think that for the hazardous tarrain is right 10 damage for every square, but the rule book is no clear.So, which is it? Has the Magic Circle got to be unoccupied altogether for WW deployment or is it just 1 square of a Magic Circle, even if 1 or more squares of that Magic Circle are occupied?
WW: "When deploying this creature, you can place it in any unoccupied Magic Circle square".
Your gf is correct.
Yep.
And honestly, if it took her this long to finally play DC with you, then I'd be inclined to say she's correct no matter what.
Your gf is correct.
Yep.
And honestly, if it took her this long to finally play DC with you, then I'd be inclined to say she's correct no matter what.
Believe me I rolled over on the issue quick-smart.
Still, it bugged me so I just wanted to check.
Your gf is correct.
Yep.
And honestly, if it took her this long to finally play DC with you, then I'd be inclined to say she's correct no matter what.
+1 to that.
Sliding big creatures over difficult terrain.
Eg/ Wearboar using furious bellow slides an ogre which was adjacent to him 2 squares to the left over one, and then a second difficult terrain tile. Ogre is tapped and takes 20 damage, ten per square of difficult terrain it entered.
My question is: did I calculate the damage correctly?
I followed it up with a stomp for the kill xD (there was a spirit just to the right)
I want to add some. That Ogre dont get dmg instantly. ONLY when Ogre become active he take 10 dmg. For example if it where my Ogre I would try to remove him from hazardous terrain by sliding out, before his activatin.
Sliding big creatures over difficult terrain.
Eg/ Wearboar using furious bellow slides an ogre which was adjacent to him 2 squares to the left over one, and then a second difficult terrain tile. Ogre is tapped and takes 20 damage, ten per square of difficult terrain it entered.
My question is: did I calculate the damage correctly?
I followed it up with a stomp for the kill xD (there was a spirit just to the right)
I want to add some. That Ogre dont get dmg instantly. ONLY when Ogre become active he take 10 dmg. For example if it where my Ogre I would try to remove him from hazardous terrain by sliding out, before his activatin.
the correct reply was given earlier ... 10 damage only when the Ogre enters the terrain due to the slide.
Damage caused by hazardous terrain is not restricted to the creatures turn, it uses the term "an activation". If it was otherwise is would saying something like 'during the creatures activation.'
it is only applied once, as it states the "first time" it is entered. If this was otherwise it would state something like, "every time a square containing hazardous terrain is entered".
I have misunderstanding of rules. Ty, bugging_bear for response!
Rules text:
"Flashing Blade" - Whenever a target takes damage from this creature`s melee atack, this creature (Drow Blademaster) can deal 10 damage to 1 adjacent creature.
and
if they end their activation in the dangerous terrain.
The Sitch (situation):
Half Orc Thug - Magic Short Sword Hp : -40
melee attacks,
Dwarven Cleric - Ability to tap to heal Hp : -40
uses PATCH UP to heal not prevent
The Question:
Can the cleric use either his ability or the immediate card to stay alive?
--- OR if not a cleric ---
Boar - Ability of DEATH STRIKE (when this creature would be destroyed, it can first make a melee attack that deals regular Damage
The Other Question:
Can the Boar survive the attack since his death strike would kill the Half Orc Thug?
-the damage can not be prevented - any immediate won't be able to block damage
-an immediate heal of 10 hp or more would save the cleric, since only 20 damage will go through and the cleric has 20 health currently.
So yes the cleric can tap to heal 10 hp -> now it has 30 hp -> now the attack goes through and the cleric loses 20 hp, and has 10 hp remaining, so it survives.
Death Strike: When this creature would be destroyed, it can first make a melee attack that deals Damage.
If indeed the boar card reads that way, yes the boar would attack and kill the half orc thug, and therefore the melee attack by the half orc thug is no longer valid so the boar would survive. But the half orc could cower the damage (for a cost of 2 morale) and then still be alive and then the attack by the half orc would still be valid and the boar would die (and lose 3 morale), and this would be the best thing to do in this situation most times. (well ideally you would back off and make a ranged attack lol)
Note that this is different than savage demise,
Make a melee attack that deals Damage against 1 tapped creature. Destroy this creature.
So if an orc drudge used savage demise, the half orc thug's attack would not go through, but the drudge would have already been destroyed anyways by the savage demise.
Tarkon Draal is one of the commanders from Tyranny of Goblins, and his ability says "Whenever an enemy creature cowers, its controller loses 1 extra morale". But, what if there are more than just 2 people playing? If I have this commander and both my opponents are fighting each other and not currently me, do they still take the hit to morale for cowering? Common Sense would seem to say that it would only take affect if they cower from me, but that is not how the card reads. It appears to read that anyone cowering at all, no matter the aggresor, would suffer the effects. Anyone able to shed light on this?
Also ... are there not going to be any more factions released for this game? Has been awhile and have not heard of any more coming out, and I really enjoy this game and hope to see more than just the 5 that are currently out.
A couple questions:
1. I know Faerie Fire needs LoS. Here's the question - if a creature has cover against it, can it tap to make the Fairie Fire miss? Our argument went something like this, Faerie Fire is not a ranged attack and therefore cannot be prevented by tapping. Other side said with cover can tap to prevent damage and effects.
2. Can Death Sentence order card be played on the acting creature itself? I know this was addressed earlier, but I want to be sure I understand.
Thanks.
1. Do creatures around corners from one another have melee cover? Hence can tap to dodge?
2. When in cover/forests/doorways You are untargetable but can see out fine? If a creature is adj, can they hit u and can u tap to dodge a melee Att. Cheers.
First off, thanks for this thread. There are a lot of great questions and answers here. Mostly, it looks like we've been playing the right way, but there are a few things posted here that have clarified some of our mistakes.
A couple questions:
1. I know Faerie Fire needs LoS. Here's the question - if a creature has cover against it, can it tap to make the Fairie Fire miss? Our argument went something like this, Faerie Fire is not a ranged attack and therefore cannot be prevented by tapping. Other side said with cover can tap to prevent damage and effects.
2. Can Death Sentence order card be played on the acting creature itself? I know this was addressed earlier, but I want to be sure I understand.
Thanks.
For #1, you can only tap to avoid ranged attacks, not spells. So you only need line of site to hit with a spell.
For #2, I am not sure but I believe you can only have another creature within 5 squares make the attack. I took it as a charismatic leader ordering a subbordinate to make an attack. Could be wrong though.
Couple of quick questions about cover,
1. Do creatures around corners from one another have melee cover? Hence can tap to dodge?
2. When in cover/forests/doorways You are untargetable but can see out fine? If a creature is adj, can they hit u and can u tap to dodge a melee Att. Cheers.
For #1 I don't believe there is melee cover. An adjacent creature can attack an adjacent creature and terrain has no effect.
For #2 If you have cover it is only for ranged attack. So an archer shoots an arrow at you and you are in cover, you can tap to dodge the arrow. In the same cover, if a miniature walks up to you, they can smack you for melee damage no matter the cover. Cover only works for ranged attacks, and not spells. Spells you need line of sight most often. Some spells don't even need that.
Re"
When in cover/forests/doorways You are untargetable but can see out fine?
You can see out,
they can see you, but you have cover (if you are standing in the edge). If you are standing deep in trees, they can't see you and you can't see them (1 or more tree between you and them)
However if you have a creature in melee range then you can just attack and cover doesn't mean anything.
1. If you get priestess of lolth and spider in opening hand, can the spider deploy outside start area?
2. Dwarf cleric can use heal as an instant during opponents turn?
Thanks fellas Couple more questions,
1. If you get priestess of lolth and spider in opening hand, can the spider deploy outside start area?
2. Dwarf cleric can use heal as an instant during opponents turn?
1. Yes but provided you deploy the priestess first.
2. Yes, although the term is "immediate action", and not "instant".
Hey guys, I'm new to Dungeon Command but really enjoying it. My wife and I are on our third game and have had a bunch of questions come up.
My first question is for a line of sight issue. In the above scenario, does the Half-Orc Thug on the right have line of sight and a clear shot to make a ranged attack against the Skeletal Tomb Guardian on the left? I wasn't sure if he could fire directly along the edge of the Gravehound and wall to hit the Skeletal Tomb Guardian. Answers would be greatly appreciated.
You have line of sight to ONE corner of the Tomb Guardian. So that means you can target it with a ranged attack, but it could tap to dodge (as an immediate action) if it isn't already tapped.
I'm very confused about line of sight. Can line of sight go through the edges of a square that is either an obstacle or occupied by an enemy?
It makes sense that it doesn't because if an enemy is hiding in multiple squares of obstacles, then a creature can't really draw line of sight through the edges of the obstacles to reach the square the creature is on. However, if this were the case, then if an enemy creature has allies (or obstacles) on its right and left squares, then a creature that is standing directly in front of the enemy creature's square has no line of sight to the creature.
There is a difference between line of sight and cover.
Line of Sight (LOS) is simply a matter of drawing an imaginary line from ANY point in one square to ANY point in another square. Having LOS doesn't necessarily mean that you can target the creature, though. If there's another enemy creature in the way, you can't target the one behind it.
Cover is a different thing. With cover, you pick ONE CORNER of the attacker's square and try to draw an imaginary line to ALL CORNERS of the target's square. If there is nothing obstructing those imaginary lines, then the target has no cover. (Obviously, you don't consider the target itself when trying to draw a line to its back corners.) If anything obstructs any one of the four lines going from the attacker's corner to the defender's 4 corners, the defender has cover from the attack. And a line running along a wall does not provide cover. So in the picture above, the Half-Orc has a no cover shot on the Skeletal Guardian, since the Half-Orc can draw an unobstructed line from the bottom-left corner of the Half-Orc's square to each of the 4 corners of the Skeleton's square. The Half-Orc could choose to target/shoot either the Skeletal Guardian or the Undead Dog, and neither would have cover (and thus, could not Dodge the attack).
When it comes to determining Cover for Large creatures in Dungeon Command, you simply need to be able to draw a clear shot from one of your corners to the 4 corners of ONE SQUARE of the defending Large creature's square. So for example, if 3 of an Ogre's squares are in cover (ie, behind walls or other creatures) but one square is in the open, then you can make a no-cover (ie, no Dodging allowed) shot at the Ogre.
Hello
I am new to Dungeon Command and I am having problems understanding the basic rules. The problem is further exacerbated by the fact that I used to play MTG and DDM. Since the three mentioned games are manufactured by the same company I unwillingly try to use my previous experience with these games in Dungeon Control which is most probably incorrect.
So, a question:
1. The stack in Dungeon Command works like in MTG (resolves backwards) - does this mean that there is no way my Dwarven Cleric can prevent the destruction of my Elf Archer if it is being dealt 10 damage? A creature deals 10 damage to my Elf Archer, the damage goes up the stack, I activate the Dwarfs Healing Power, it goes on the stack, resolves, but the damage is not dealt yet, so it doesn't do anything, then the damage resolves and my Archer is dead - right? In MTG you used regeneration-like effects before dealing damage, but the turn structure was such, that you had a period between assigning damage and actually dealing it. So if knew that if my 5/2 creature is faced by a 2/4 opponent I coud use a regeneration effect before dealing damage and that would save my creature.
2. I am having problems understanding when exactly can I use actions (actions can be taken when the creature is being played an order card on). During the activation phase I can move my creature, use its powers, play order cards on it and do something else. Does this mean that I can play order cards only once? My creature can move only once and attack only once - that would seem logical... but not right since there are order cards for attack. Would that mean that if I used an order card with an attack, I can't use another order card during movement because the time for using orders is over?
3. Can I use order cards on a tapped creature? That would seem strange since a creature taps for an attack and it could get another attack from an order card...
4. I can take only 1 standard action per creatures turn, unlimited number of minor actions, but what about immediate actions?
5. Can I use order cards of several types (Minor, Standard) when the stack has an order card of a different type?
6. Can I use several order cards on one acting creature if their total cost is more then that creatures strength (dex, int, etc.). For example my creature has a STR=1 and I play one order card with STR=1 and then another one with STR=1
7. If I slide a creature - do I get to choose a particular direction of the slide, or i slide only in the opposite direction from the acting creature?
8. If an order card says that I can remove another order card from my creature - do I discard that card, or do I put it back into my order card hand? Namely - can I use this effect to get my order card from my creature and then give it to another?
9. Is there a bonus for flanking or charging, like in Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures (+2 and +1 respectively)?
10. If I pay the price of the order card with the acting creature (tap it) will it be able to make an attack granted by the orfder card? Or can a tapped creature ttack by itself - without any order cards? (I have a lone Dwarf Cleric adjacent to an enemy Dragon. I am playing Power attack on the Cleric, tap it to pay the price (1 STR) and... did I waste a card because a tapped creature cannot attack, or does he deal 50 Damage to the Dragon?)
11. When I tap a creature to pay the price of the order card - if the creatures level is more than the price of the order card - does this extra stuff remain for me to use for the duration of the round or does it get wastyed when the stack resolves? In other words - when does the pool (mana pool in MTG) become empty?
12. "Behind Enemy Lines" - assigning this card to a creature consumes a minor action. But does it require any action to remove this card once in the opponent's start zone to get the +4 Morale bonus?
13. "Fireball" - can I choose a square wich I don't have line of sight to? For example - I have a Capricious Dragon blocking the tunnel with two adjacent allies behind him. Can I target the square in the Dragons base which is further from me? And secondly - can I target the creatures behind the Dragon alltogether? Fireball doesn't say it anywhere that it is a ranged attack, so, maybe, the cover which the Dragon provides to its allies does not count?
14. Can an attack be made against an empty square? In my case - can a Dragon target an empty square with its ranged attack to hit the enemy hiding around the corner with its splash 20 damage Acid Breath power?
Weird - I have gotten all the answers on https://boardgamegeek.com/article/19380019#19380019 but the official forum is morbidly silent.
Everything is clear for me now - case dismissed.
Some questions about the game multiple players 2x2:
Allies can play a card order (immediate default, minor) to allocate abilities or prevent damage to your partner even if not turn?
Example 1: the player 1A gets attack on Player 1B , in response, the 2B player plays an immediate card to prevent the damage that his ally would suffer.
Example 2: the player 1A is an attack on Player 1B, as helping player 1A, player 2A throws a standard/minor card to improve the attack.
These situations are possible, or allies can not interfere in the turn of his partner??