Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 LordKaen Mar 28, 2015 11:33:08	So, I've been working on a Tiefling variant so they are not restricted to Spellcasting classes, since I sorely miss the idea of a Turathi Warfiend or a Tiefling Hellstalker flavor for Fighters and Rogues. Been thinking to make this as balanced and not too game-breaky as they were in 4e. Maybe focus less on cantrips and more on 4e flavor feats like Clever Tail (able to hold items on your tail, can also do Thievery checks with it, including using Thieve's tools) Though it does not convince me for a Fighter Tiefling, still. Any ideas?   Race: Tiefling (Variant)   Ability Score Increase. Your Constitution score increases by 2, and your Charisma score increases by 1. Age. Tieflings mature at the same rate as humans but live a few years longer. Alignment. Tieflings might not have an innate tendency toward evil, but many o f them end up there. Evil or not, an independent nature inclines many tieflings toward a chaotic alignment. Size. Tieflings are about the same size and build as humans. Your size is Medium. Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet. Darkvision. Thanks to your infernal heritage, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet o f you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray. Hellish Resistance. You have resistance to fire damage. Clever Tail. Your control over your tail allows you to manipulate objects, hold items and even do thievery checks. With your tail, you can manipulate almost any item you could normally using one hand. When holding an item, or a weapon, it cannot weight more than 3lb. You cannot make weapon attacks with your tail. Your tail can use Thieves' Tools when doing a thievery check. Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Infernal.   I am thinking of ways to add to make them more melee-specific, but I can't think of anything else that would make sense besides the Con modifier. Sure, there were fighting styles, but those could be justified using manouvers (Tripping Manouver could be flavored for Tail Trip, or a Horned Headbutt) Feedback appreciated.
#2 OrwellianHaggis Mar 29, 2015 2:39:38	In 5e no race is restricted to a class. The Tiefling can melee as feasibly as any other.
#3 Macv12 Mar 29, 2015 2:57:57	When you say "restricted to Spellcasting classes," are you under the impression that they can't use their racial spells (Hellish Rebuke and such) without spell slots? Because that's not the case. Even with spell slots, they don't actually "know" those spells; they only function as once-per-day abilities. Considering that, they're not really gimped in melee.   It sounds more like you want to optimize stats while still being a tiefling. Having under-optimized melee stats (by 2 or 3 points) hardly makes one non-viable. Inventing a couple subraces seems like a valid endeavor to me, though. After all, between High and Wood elves, it's pretty obvious which is "intended" for the ranger class...
#4 LordKaen Mar 29, 2015 14:27:45	Yeah, I did not get my point across well. No, I am very well aware the Spellcasting for Infernal Legacy is not restricted for classes with spell slots. Sure, you can take the PHB Tiefling and roll a fighter. But the bonus to Int and Cha will do you no good. I am just trying to make a variant that would make a better viable fighter or rogue. While they were not perfect in 4e, they were supported. I guess I enjoy the idea of a Hellish Fighter or a sneaky tiefling since Warlocking and Wizardry can be overdone. I am by no means trying to make a "perfect race" but I'd like a tiefling variant for more melee support that still makes sense from what is known about tieflings in most settings.   Tieflings in 4e had a bonus to stealth, which made sense because they actively try to avoid notice and therefore trouble. They also had an affinity with fire, and slightly less so with charm spells. Since no race has elemental affinity this optimized, I am happy letting this go for balance's sake. Tieflings had no bonus to STR or DEX, but they had a CON that made them viable melee and even great Paladins and Warlords who had to work hard to get their Str or Dex up.
#5 Thoughts_My_Aim Mar 29, 2015 14:34:51	This is very much a playstyle issue. There's no reason that a Tiefling isn't viable as a Fighter or Rogue unless by "viable" you mean "has +2 in a key Ability score".
#6 LordKaen Mar 29, 2015 23:34:38	I know min-maxing is not a real big thing in 5e as it was in 4e. Though incentive is a heavy part of WHAT you play. Playing whatever you want is incentive enough for some people, but we can all admit a wood elf ranger will be miles more useful than a Half-Orc wizard. If it's a theming thing, then that's the same issue I am tackling. I am trying to make a tiefling variant that works more broadly for fighters, rogues and even Paladins while still not losing the Turathi theming and love they got in the past edition.
#7 DMStevenH Mar 30, 2015 1:44:58	I badly want to play a tiefling paladin now...   But you can easily rock a tiefling fighter by just starting with a Str of 14. No big deal fighters get plenty of stat bonuses. I'd rather have some neat racial tiefling feats than a new potential stat line though.
#8 Thoughts_My_Aim Mar 30, 2015 4:50:15	LordKaen wrote:
(Reply to #8) Mechatarrasque	Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
#10 BRJN Apr 04, 2015 14:00:58	A workable rough sketch.  I would look through the races with variants and see how they handle stat bonuses, then do the same here.  For instance, all Elves get +2 DEX, each sub-race gets +1 (Something).  So Tieflings all get +2 CHR, traditional 'schemer' Tieflings get +1 INT, your 'tough-guy' sub-race gets +1 STR.    I'm AFB and not familiar with Tieflings, so I don't know what to remove to replace with the prehensile tail.  You took out the Spell-clone abilities?   Note that having only 2 hands is a critical constraint on many melee/caster builds, and your proposal effectively has 3 hands, so is an automatic go-to choice for those builds.
(Reply to #10) Nevvur	BRJN wrote: