Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 RealSeolfor Mar 28, 2015 23:00:05	Hi All,   I require help constructing by BigBadEvilGuys in D&D 5E.   I really would like to make my BBEGs custom characters e.g. a Hobgoblin Death Cleric.   Im honestly really confused reading through the DMG/PHB/MM about how to do this, while creating an encounter.   E.g. Im trying to create a Bandit ambush. But i dont want to pick up stock Bandits and Bandit Captain from the MM.   Ideally, i want my group of six level 3 PCs to go up against another tactical group.   The enemy group should have the BBEG, say a Caster, at least one Ranged specialist, one Melee specialist and one Healer, with mooks to round out the encounter.   Say, i wanted, the enemy group to be a Hobgoblin Warband, but rather than use stock stats from MM, i want the squad to be Hobgoblin: 1. Death - Cleric 2. Divinity - Wizard 3. Ranger 4. Barbarian 5. Misc   A hard encoutner for six Level 3s would be a budget of 225x6 = 1350 XP. Say in total the Hobgoblin squad will have six people i.e. a mulitplier of 2x. So then this deathsquad's individual XPs should add to 675 max.   This is where Im confused because im not sure what is the CR/XP of the enemy deathsquad im trying to customize.   What is the CR/XP of a Level 3 Hobgoblin Cleric (Death), what about level 5 or level 7?   Im on pg 283 of DMG, and im really confused - Monsters with Class i.e. a Hobgoblin with, say, 7 levels of Cleric:   - No starting equipment, Ok - each class level add a hit die of the monster, not class i.e. 7d8 ~ 35 HP (do i add CON modifier per level added i.e. +7). Total HP between 11+ 35 to 42, say, 53. Ok - Proficiency bonus is as per CR and not class level, huh what? the CR of base monster is 1/2. It later says in the DMG that you must edit the CR depending on how many class levels you added, to what base monster.   What is the CR of this level 7 Hobgob Death Cleric? (and hence how much XP is he worth, so i can design an encounter around him.)   Then on pages 274/275, it says, when creating a monster, you designate an 'expected CR'. WTF. Im going in circles.   Help please.   EDIT:   Sidebar:   Comparing the MM'[s Hobgob Captain on pg 186, to the Table in DMG pg 274: MM gives Hob Captain as a CR3 monster, with 17 AC, 39HP and +4 to hit, DPR of 18 (or 28 using Martial Advantage).   This would make the Hob Captain as per the table on DMG a: - by AC17 CR10 - by HP39 CR 1/4 - by +4 Attk Bonus CR3 - by 28 DPR CR4   As per step 4 'Final Challenge Rating' in DMG pg 274 Defensive CR: Start with HP, the CR is 1/4 AC is 4 points higher than it should be, so CR goes up by two steps i.e. CR1   Offensive CR: Start with DPR, the CR is 4 The attack bonus CR isnt off by more than 2 points, so no change to CR.   Average CR = (1+4)/2 = 2.5 And so we land up with a CR3 monster with 39 HP :o which as per DMG table on avg shouldve been 108 HP with +4 Atk bonus DPR of ~24 and AC13. Seesm legit to everyone?
#2 RealSeolfor Mar 29, 2015 0:33:00	Im going to try making a Hob Fighter1/Death Cleric6, Level 7 Monster and people can tell me if this is wrong/right:   Starting from scratch rather than use the starting Hobgob MM stat block.   27pb, the stats chosen would be St   15 De 10 Co 14 In   08 Wi  15 Ch 08 Starts as Fighter (Duelist style), then Death Cleric At level 5, pick up +1 to St and Wi Proficient with STR, CON saves Racials: Martial Advantage (how much Dmg to add? Using Hob Captain as a reference 3d6), Other racials same as base Hob in MM   HP: 10 + 2 + 6d8 (6x5=30) + 12 = 52 [Defensive CR = 1/2] AC: Say hes is a Plate mail with Shield AC20 [Defensive CR goes up three steps i.e. CR3]   DPR: Say, over 4 rounds: Rd1. Standard attack: 1d8+2 (duelist) + 1 (magic weapon) + 3 (STR) = 10.5 Rd2. Channel Div Death Domain + Standard attack: 5+(2x6) + 1d8+2 (duelist) + 1 (magic weapon) + 3 (STR) = 27.5 Rd3. Inflict Wound@L3slot  5d10 = 27.5 Rd4. Channel Div Death Domain + Standard attack: 5+(2x6) + 1d8+2 (duelist) + 1 (magic weapon) + 3 (STR) = 27.5 AVG DPR = 23.25 [Offensive CR3] Attack Bonus, Longsword+1: +3 from Prof, +3 from STR, +1 from weapon = +7 [Offensive CR goes up by two steps i.e. CR5]   Average CR = (3 + 5)/2 = 4   So Fighter1/DeathCleric6 Hobgob is a CR4 monster worth 1100XP?   Surely someone mustve coded an online tool for this by now :I   EDIT:   So for this Deathsquad im guessing, the combination of: - one CR2 450XP - one CR1/2 100XP - four CR1/8 100XP (25x4) total 650XP (x 2) = 1300XP grade, Hard encounter for party of six Level 3s.   CR2: Hobgob DeathCleric5 St   10 De 14 Co 15 In   08 Wi  15 Ch 08 At level 4, pick up +1 to Co and Wi Proficient with WIS, CHA saves Racials: Martial Advantage (2d6), Other racials same as base Hob in MM   HP: 8 + 3 + 4d8 (4x5=20) + 12 = 43 [Defensive CR = 1/4] AC: Say hes is in Half-Plate and Shield AC19 [Defensive CR goes up three steps i.e. Defensive CR2]   DPR: Say, over 4 rounds: Rd1. Standard attack, Rapier: 1d8 + 2 (DEX) = 6.5 Rd2. Channel Div Death Domain + Standard attack, Rapier: 5+(2x6) + 1d8 + 2 (DEX) = 23.5 Rd3. Inflict Wound@L3slot  5d10 = 27.5 Rd4. Standard attack, Rapier: 1d8 + 2 (DEX) = 6.5 Assuming has Martial Advantage every other round i.e. add +14 damage over 4 rounds AVG DPR = 19.5 [Offensive CR2]   Attack Bonus, Rapier: +3 from Prof, +2 from DEX = +5 [Offensive CR goes up by one step i.e. Offensive CR3]. To keep it a CR2 monster, id manipulate the total Attack bonus, both to melee and spells, to +3 and spell DC 13   Does that make sense?
#3 RealSeolfor Apr 10, 2015 9:39:14	SO no one has any clue about this?
#4 bawylie Apr 10, 2015 10:25:00	I'm at work and I can't check your maths. My advice would be to use stock, and make so gle modifications to fit theme. But I'm lazy about monsters. I choose to use my time on other stuff.    Sorry.
#5 OoftaMeg Apr 10, 2015 12:24:51	The CR and XP for a fight are, at best, only a general guideline in any case.  When I come up with custom bad guys I make quick notes on how to tweak them at game time to make them either tougher or weaker depending on how the encounter goes.  Have reinforcements on hand if the party is having an easy time of it, or have the bad guys leave to let the grunts "clean up" if the fight is too tough, etc.   While I like throwing custom monsters, there's no play-test opportunity so I've learned to adjust on the fly depending on how things are working out.     I don't have my books here and I haven't created enough BBEGs yet so I can't give you any specific advice but not knowing the capabilities of your group I'm not sure it would help anyway.  Encounter building is more of an art than a science.