Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pukunui Dec 12, 2014 22:41:45	Hi folks,   Two of my players have expressed a desire to purchase some accessories.   One player, whose PC is a monk, wants some brass knuckles. I presume he's hoping that they'll increase his unarmed strike damage. There are, of course, no brass knuckles in the PHB, so I'm not sure what effect, if any, they should have or what they should cost. I'm inclined to say they should just be cosmetic, unless they're sharp, in which case their effect might be to change the damage type from bludgeoning to piercing or slashing.   Another player wants some diamond-studded leather gloves. These are purely cosmetic, but again, I'm not sure how much such a thing would cost. Anyone got any ideas?     Thanks, Jonathan
#2 Imaculata Dec 13, 2014 2:32:30	Well try to use logic. How difficult would a set of brass knuckles be, when compared to the crafting of a sword, or a dagger? I would assume that they would be easier to make, and there for cheaper than either of those two things. But it wouldn't make sense if they were purely cosmetic. I'd rather get hit with a bare fist, than someone wearing brass knuckles. Why? Because they would do more damage, and the damage could be lethal. So, make that a rule. They deal more damage than their normal unarmed attack. Maybe it's a flat bonus on the damage? But it should make any none-lethal damage into lethal damage.   You could also bring some roleplaying into the mix. If the monk belongs to an order, how do they feel about the use of such weaponry? And how would they react to a monk wearing such things in public?
#3 bonethug0108 Dec 13, 2014 5:12:02	Brass knuckles would be considered a light melee weapon and are akin to a club (though much smaller). They would do 1d4 bludgeoning damage, or piercing damage if spiked or slashing damage if bladed. They would also cost 1 sp. As for the gloves I would say maybe 1 gp base for leather gloves plus whatever diamonds cost in the DMG (still don't have mine) times however many diamonds it's studded with. Or just make up some cost (50 gp?) and remember it so the player can't try to sell them for more later.
#4 cowleymen Dec 13, 2014 5:22:32	Thats the problem with monks, their unarmed strikes already do more damage. Im not sure just giving them that +1 to their damage would break the game, depeding on their level they might just still be better off with a monk weapon.   And for those dimond gloves, why? Dimonds are expensive as hell, and would be hard as **** to get studded into leather gloves and not have them falling out all the time. Wiggle your fingers around while looking at the back of your hand. ALl that little movement would eventually wiggle the dimonds loose. Now you add on top of that adventuring actions, and even combat, it just seems like thats asking for the dimonds to go missing.
#5 bonethug0108 Dec 13, 2014 5:36:48	Also note that brass knuckles are NOT unarmed damage. They are a weapon. So again with comparing them to clubs they would also be a simple weapon and count as a monk weapon and work with those features and not with his unarmed features. If you do want to consider them as unarmed damage I would just rule them as 1d4 damage, so a monk gains no benefit because their fist is already as dangerous(if not more so) as brass knuckles.
#6 iserith Dec 13, 2014 6:12:04	pukunui wrote:
(Reply to #6) bonethug0108	iserith wrote:
#8 iserith Dec 13, 2014 6:32:19	bonethug0108 wrote:
#9 bonethug0108 Dec 13, 2014 6:54:59	I'm saying IF the OP is looking for something concrete, the rules say using an improvised weapon that is close enough to a weapon on the weapon table can count as that weapon. That's the easy road to take.   I also offered up an alternative to that(just make it 1d4 unarmed damge).   The +1 damage is also easy at first glance, but then you can get in to things like a player holding a rock in their fist asking for bonus damage. Players may start looking for other things to give them bonus damage. Now there's nothing wrong with that, but he may want to avoid that road. I was simply pointing to the easy path.
#10 BRJN Dec 13, 2014 7:22:55	A pair of brass knuckles, depending on how it is made, might do several things. - +1 to damage (it's just a heavier weight in your hand) - changes Unarmed Attack from 1 HP to 1d4.  This makes everybody a Monk, but also fills your Hands slot (so no magic gloves &c on top of it) - changes Unarmed Attack to Slashing damage (formed a cutting edge onto it) - changes Unarmed Attack to Piercing damage (big knob on leading edge) Pick one option, you can only wear one pair of Brass Knuckles at a time.   For a totally mundane pair, maybe 1 GP tops.  (But you WILL get funny looks when you ask for one.)   G. Gordon Liddy tells of a very cheap prison-made pair of "brass knuckles" (more like a fighter's ring)  that was crafted by filing down a small-diameter pipe to have a cutting edge on it.  This was to make a tell-tale wound for the guards to see, so they would have to pick up a particularly belligerent prisoner and take him to the hospital - also getting him away from the other inmates.   There is a set of "magical brass knuckles" in HotDQ (I think called a Claw) so a mundane set should do less than it does.
#11 iserith Dec 13, 2014 7:51:34	bonethug0108 wrote:
#12 crimfan07 Dec 13, 2014 7:55:24	I like the notion of using brass knuckles as a way to shift damage types around for the monk, such as having a spike that switches unarmed damage from B to P. Eventually they can also be enchanted and allow for unarmed damage to have some nifty add on, such as a small amount of extra elemental damage. It's not a major deal but the player feels like it was worthwhile. It's very monk-ish (or at least Golden Harvest/Shaw Brothers movie monk-ish) to have an obsessively tended collection of bizarre fist weapons nobody else can use.    The diamond studded gloves are perfectly cosmetic, so you can just figure out what it costs. To encourage players to buy stuff like that, you might want to reinforce that game-mechanically, say by throwing them a tool proficiency bonus when their fancy duds would impress someone.
#13 Imaculata Dec 13, 2014 9:06:52	I'd go with the option of switching damage type, and adding a minor damage bonus on top of the damage the monk would normally do. It doesn't make much sense that a set of knuckles does 1d4 damage, when the bare fists of the monk do more damage than that. He's literally wearing metal on top of his fists, so it should deal more damage, not less. But I'd definitely rule that as long as the monk is wearing them, he is unable to deal none-lethal damage. That is a disadvantage. When you want to knock someone out, you may end up killing him.
(Reply to #11) bonethug0108	iserith wrote:
(Reply to #13) bonethug0108	Imaculata wrote:
#16 iserith Dec 13, 2014 9:38:07	bonethug0108 wrote:
#17 pukunui Dec 13, 2014 12:47:37	Thanks for all the comments, guys. It seems like people playing monks always want brass knuckles. I like the thinking that brass knuckles would count as a weapon - having brass knuckles enhance the unarmed strikes as a whole doesn't make a lot of sense, considering that you can make them with your elbows, knees, head, feet, etc. I will have to talk to my player and find out what he's hoping they'll do.   As for the diamond-studded gloves, practicality aside, the PC is "easily distracted by shiny things", and she wants some cool shiny gloves just as a neat accessory. There's also this nasty substance in the campaign called black ice, and she's been affected by it already, so I think the player is also hoping that the gloves will enable her to be able to handle the stuff without suffering the consequences (the black ice basically turns you into Gollum; you become very covetous of it and you start thinking everyone is trying to take it from you and so you become paranoid and belligerent and so on and so forth).
(Reply to #13) crimfan07	Imaculata wrote:
(Reply to #14) crimfan07	bonethug0108 wrote:
#20 pukunui Dec 13, 2014 18:33:45	I just spoke to the player of the monk. He was hoping it would increase his damage - I think he feels like a d4 is too whimpy. I pointed out that his unarmed damage would be going up to a d6 next level, and he said not to worry about the brass knuckles after all. He's willing to wait.
#21 Imaculata Dec 14, 2014 3:45:46	What you could also do, since some of you brought up the point that a monk fights with more than just his fists, is to limit the damage increase to only certain attacks where the fists are used. It could also give the monk an AC bonus, if he is fighting on the defence. Because he would basically be using the knuckles to protect his hands while blocking an attack. But this would be an AC bonus that is only active while the player is actively defending.
#22 Varden_Khol Dec 14, 2014 19:35:26	I'd make the Brass Knuckles a simple melee weapon that deals 1d4 damage, but with a special trait that allows you to make unarmed attacks while wielding them at +1 damage. Just trying to think of appropriate wording so that both Monks and PCs with Tavern Brawler would benefit.