Anybody miss Tower Shields? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 transcendantviewer Apr 14, 2015 14:05:36	I still enjoy the flavor of the old 3.5 days when you could have a Fighter wade into combat against a hail of arrows, armed with only the armor on their back, their trusty blade, and a tower shield. I thought I'd take a crack at making one that's balanced for 5th, but since tower shields were always so strange, it's not likely to be an easy undertaking. I was thinking of the following: Tower Shield. Armor, Heavy, Special. This unique piece of armor grants its wielder greater defenses than an ordinary shield could. While wielding this shield, increase your Armor Class by 2. As a bonus action, you can superimpose this shield in between you and your foes. Until the start of your next turn, you have full Cover against the attacks of up to three creatures that are adjacent to you and each other. Spells and effects that can spread around barriers can still affect you normally. Enemies on the other side of this shield have full cover from you as well. Weight: 30lbs. Cost: 50gp.
#2 transcendantviewer Apr 14, 2015 14:11:14	I should probably include something along the lines of whether it can be broken or not, though I believe that's probably something for the DM to adjudicate.
#3 cowleymen Apr 14, 2015 15:49:39	Not bad. Now, I wouldnt make it full cover. Lets say 3/4 cover from ranged attacks and 1/2 for melee. tower shields are huge, but thats a very large advantage to have full cover from the three squares immediately infront of you. Now when you list heavy, does that you require the heavy armor prof. So fighters, paladins, and some clerics can use this shield? Regular shields have their own prof. not attached to armor type.
#4 transcendantviewer Apr 14, 2015 16:27:47	It's meant to be similar to the Heavy Weapon Property, so Small Sized characters can't wield it without suffering Disadvantage on attack rolls. I'll write that down somewhere. I designed it this way to be a bit more realistic, you put a wall of wood and metal in front of you, targets have to try and move their way around it to attack you.
#5 UngeheuerLich Apr 15, 2015 8:25:55	Nice Idea, but a little to strong as written. I do however miss bucklers more!
#6 transcendantviewer Apr 15, 2015 23:02:19	transcendantviewer wrote:
#7 transcendantviewer Apr 15, 2015 23:04:02	I'm thinking of creating a feat to allow characters to make better use of this item. Perhaps... Tower Defense Prerequisite: Strength 13 or higher, Proficiency in Shields. You have trained extensively in the use of Tower Shields, gaining the following benefits: Increase your Strength Score by 1, to a maximum of 20. You no longer suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls while wielding a Tower Shield.
#8 RasmusNord Apr 16, 2015 7:01:07	I think you have to ask yourself: if I made a fighter, is there any reason why not to have a tower shield - or do a tower shield build with the feat? I think the answer is no. EVen 1 point of AC is very valuable in 5th Ed. I would probably leave it with ac 2, but granting cover from missile weapons, and keeping the attack restrictions unless you have the feat.
#9 tubadancross Apr 16, 2015 7:39:58	Shield: as standard shield Buckler: shield that straps to the arm and gives a +1 bonus to AC. Since it is not held with a hand you may hold an object in the hand a blucker is in. If the object is a weapon you do not get the AC bonus on any turn you attack with that weapon. Tower Shield: +3 to AC and if you use the dodge action you have an additional 3/4 cover on ranged attacks. -10ft move speed. Buckler proficiency is gained with light armor and tower shield is gained with heavy armor, but is not considered heavy armor so the dwarf racial ability doesn't make them immune to the downside.
#10 transcendantviewer Apr 16, 2015 12:36:02	I don't think the speed reduction is a good tradeoff. Since numbers are so low in this edition, I'm relatively sure the -1 to attack rolls is a good trade for the bonus AC and the immunity to attacks is a solid counter to even a Fighter using their Action Surge. As it's used, they can't attack after Dodging since the shield's in the way, and if they do, they lose the Total Cover. And in all honesty, AC is only a problem for grunts. Bosses and spellcasters can still deal with a Tower Shield quite easily. If you're on the defensive, you're not attacking, meaning you're pretty much out of the fight for a round, so, the enemy can just ignore you and terrorize your allies while you turtle up like a chump.
#11 Mephi1234 Apr 16, 2015 20:26:15	And a bless spell negates the -1 to attack. At high levels, where your rising bonus to hit makes hitting the same ACs that have been around since level 1 almost trivial? This is a non-drawback.
#12 transcendantviewer Apr 16, 2015 20:32:32	I suppose I should increase the penalty. Maybe a -2. Any more than that and no one will ever want to wield the thing.
#13 Danny_Montanny Apr 17, 2015 6:53:28	It should have a Strength requirement to be able to don it, as well as the speed penalty. 15 sounds fair to be able to lug it around normally and actually use it as a shield and not just something to hide behind. The way I see it, cover is cover. If there's something to hide behind you do it as a part of your movement. If everyone is carrying around big sheets of wood to hide behind, then they can. That doesn't mean they'll be strong enough to carry it quickly, let alone use it as a shield. I wouldn't let it give full cover, just 3/4. And no 15 Strength Halflings going, "but it's bigger than my whole body!" No friend, if you want a tower shield that you can actually use as a shield, it'll be appropriately sized to you just like all the rest of your gear. So now we get into why any 15 Strength character wouldn't use it. I'd have it say something about if you're using it for cover, you don't get it's normal +2 AC bonus. It's no longer a shield at that point, but a static feature of the environment. So at best it's +3 AC if you're using it as cover. At worst, the enemy moves around your cover and you no longer have your shield's +2 AC. Better yet, add that you have to drop prone to use it as cover. Sure ranged attacks against you will be at disadvantage, but any melee ones will be with advantage. That'll make you think twice of when you'll be using it! So here we have a shield that'll protect you from ranged attacks effectively, but poses a very potential detriment when using the tactic in melee combat. Sounds balanced to me.
#14 mattaddhall Apr 17, 2015 7:58:01	I don’t think that you need much more of a restriction beyond a STR 15 or even 16 prerequisite. Maybe being proficient in heavy shields and only giving that proficiency to fighters and paladins. A lot of people on the forums say that DEX is OP when compared to STR, and having a shield that gives an extra +1 or +2 even to a character AC would balance that out a lot. You could then add a couple feats to add extra abilities to it.
#15 LordMorin Apr 17, 2015 8:55:39	Wall Shield: Weight: 25 lbs. +3 AC Disadvantage on Strength & Dexterity-based skill checks) due to it's bulkiness.
(Reply to #15) HermanTheWize	LordMorin wrote:
(Reply to #16) mattaddhall	HermanTheWize wrote:
#18 mattaddhall Apr 17, 2015 10:58:07	I think the way I would prefer to balance it is that it is difficult to be able to use it, with pretty stringent prerequisites, but once you are able to use it, it doesn’t negatively affect you. It would prevent everyone from using it because the cost to make a character able to use it would be too high for most players who aren’t specializing. I might even say it has a +4 to AC (+2 more than a normal shield, mostly because it would be about twice as large), requires 16 STR, to have both Plate and Tower shield you need 18 STR, only fighter and Paladin are proficient (fighter because they can uses all weapons, paladin because they are the only other class that aims for high AC from heavy armour) If you were to have a Feat for the shield, then you can introduce both pros and cons (e.g. dex disadvantage for 1/2 cover vs missiles). I will say that 5th edition is the first I have played so I don’t know how they worked in previous versions.
#19 Danny_Montanny Apr 17, 2015 15:19:37	Tower Shield This large shield lets you take cover to protect yourself from attacks. Due to it's size, you must have a Strength score of 15 or more to gain its normal +2 bonus to AC while wielding it. As a bonus action, you can drop prone behind the shield to have three-quarters cover against attacks originating from the opposite side of the shield. While you have cover this way, you do not benefit from the shield's normal +2 bonus to AC. So, if you're strong enough, you can carry a piece of cover with you. It takes up some action economy to set up that cover. Though you will be much better defended against ranged attacks, melee attacks will take advantage of your decreased mobility. Not to mention taking half of your movement to stand up from prone if you want to move the next turn.
#20 Slyck314 Apr 17, 2015 15:06:41	How about some kinda swap for the normal bonuses when dodging. Cover instead of disadvantage on attacks.
#21 Noon Apr 17, 2015 16:10:39	Why did it go from wading into a hail of arrows to 'block the guys who are standing right next to me'?
(Reply to #21) transcendantviewer	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #22) Danny_Montanny	transcendantviewer wrote:
#24 transcendantviewer Apr 18, 2015 18:37:39	Fair point. I originally was thinking of having it function as Total Cover against three squares that are adjacent to both you and each other.
#25 MechaPilot Apr 18, 2015 21:01:03	Regarding the thread title, I don't miss tower shields. The only time I have ever seen PCs use them is in warfare scenarios. With regard to the specific mechanics of a tower shield for 5e, I have no problem with it providing total cover against attacks from the front. I don't mean just the row of three squares in front of the tower shield user, but in a kind of truncated cone whose small end makes up the row of three squares in front of the user. I would describe it as total cover against any attack that passes through the front of the user's square, drawing a line fron the center of the attacker's square to the center of the shield user's square (however you would describe that without mentioning squares, because that's apparently taboo in 5e).
(Reply to #25) Macv12	MechaPilot wrote:
#27 MechaPilot Apr 18, 2015 21:49:51	Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #27) Macv12	MechaPilot wrote:
#29 transcendantviewer Apr 19, 2015 9:09:26	A cone of Total Cover would work, with maybe a Penumbra of 3/4 cover against Ranged Attacks.
(Reply to #22) Baphogoat	transcendantviewer wrote:
(Reply to #30) transcendantviewer	Baphogoat wrote:
(Reply to #31) Baphogoat	transcendantviewer wrote:
(Reply to #32) transcendantviewer	Baphogoat wrote:
(Reply to #33) Baphogoat	transcendantviewer wrote:
#35 transcendantviewer Apr 19, 2015 23:06:48	Here, I think this will clear up the issue... Tower Shield. Armor, Special. This unique piece of armor grants its wielder greater defenses than an ordinary shield could. To make effective use of this piece of equipment, you must have a Strength score of 15 or higher and have proficiency in Heavy Armor. While wielding this shield, increase your Armor Class by 2. While on the defensive, you can superimpose this shield in between you and your foes. When you take the Dodge Action, you gain Three-Quarters Cover against attacks, but lose the AC bonus granted from this shield. Because of this shield's bulk and weight, you have Disadvantage on Dexterity-based Skill Checks. Weight: 40lbs. Price: 50gp. And the feat will now be... Tower Defense Prerequisite: Strength 15 or higher, Proficiency in Heavy Armor. You have trained extensively in the use of Tower Shields, gaining the following benefits: While you are wielding a Tower Shield, increase your Armor Class by 1. While taking the Dodge action, you can designate a single foe; until the start of your next turn, you now have Total Cover against that foe's attacks, but lose the benefits of Three-Quarters Cover against the attacks of other creatures. If you are making use of a Tower Shield, you can expend your Reaction to roll a Dexterity-based Skill Check without the Disadvantage caused by your Tower Shield. This means that they get a passive +1 to their AC, but now can only gain one benefit or the other: Total Cover against a single opponent, or Three-Quarters Cover against all attacks. This is because you're focusing your defenses against a single opponent instead of just trying to protect yourself against all incoming attacks. And throughout the entire process, they still can't make attacks, because they're taking the Dodge Action.
(Reply to #35) Baphogoat	transcendantviewer wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

transcendantviewer

Apr 14, 2015 14:05:36

I still enjoy the flavor of the old 3.5 days when you could have a Fighter wade into combat against a hail of arrows, armed with only the armor on their back, their trusty blade, and a tower shield.

I thought I'd take a crack at making one that's balanced for 5th, but since tower shields were always so strange, it's not likely to be an easy undertaking. I was thinking of the following:

Tower Shield.

Armor, Heavy, Special.

This unique piece of armor grants its wielder greater defenses than an ordinary shield could. While wielding this shield, increase your Armor Class by 2. As a bonus action, you can superimpose this shield in between you and your foes. Until the start of your next turn, you have full Cover against the attacks of up to three creatures that are adjacent to you and each other. Spells and effects that can spread around barriers can still affect you normally. Enemies on the other side of this shield have full cover from you as well.

Weight: 30lbs. Cost: 50gp.

transcendantviewer

Apr 14, 2015 14:11:14

I should probably include something along the lines of whether it can be broken or not, though I believe that's probably something for the DM to adjudicate.

cowleymen

Apr 14, 2015 15:49:39

Not bad. Now, I wouldnt make it full cover. Lets say 3/4 cover from ranged attacks and 1/2 for melee. tower shields are huge, but thats a very large advantage to have full cover from the three squares immediately infront of you.

Now when you list heavy, does that you require the heavy armor prof. So fighters, paladins, and some clerics can use this shield? Regular shields have their own prof. not attached to armor type.

transcendantviewer

Apr 14, 2015 16:27:47

It's meant to be similar to the Heavy Weapon Property, so Small Sized characters can't wield it without suffering Disadvantage on attack rolls. I'll write that down somewhere. I designed it this way to be a bit more realistic, you put a wall of wood and metal in front of you, targets have to try and move their way around it to attack you.

UngeheuerLich

Apr 15, 2015 8:25:55

Nice Idea, but a little to strong as written.

I do however miss bucklers more!

transcendantviewer

Apr 15, 2015 23:02:19

transcendantviewer wrote:

transcendantviewer

Apr 15, 2015 23:04:02

I'm thinking of creating a feat to allow characters to make better use of this item. Perhaps...

Tower Defense
Prerequisite: Strength 13 or higher, Proficiency in Shields.

You have trained extensively in the use of Tower Shields, gaining the following benefits:

Increase your Strength Score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You no longer suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls while wielding a Tower Shield.

RasmusNord

Apr 16, 2015 7:01:07

I think you have to ask yourself: if I made a fighter, is there any reason why not to have a tower shield - or do a tower shield build with the feat?

I think the answer is no. EVen 1 point of AC is very valuable in 5th Ed.

I would probably leave it with ac 2, but granting cover from missile weapons, and keeping the attack restrictions unless you have the feat.

tubadancross

Apr 16, 2015 7:39:58

Shield: as standard shield

Buckler: shield that straps to the arm and gives a +1 bonus to AC. Since it is not held with a hand you may hold an object in the hand a blucker is in. If the object is a weapon you do not get the AC bonus on any turn you attack with that weapon.

Tower Shield: +3 to AC and if you use the dodge action you have an additional 3/4 cover on ranged attacks. -10ft move speed.

Buckler proficiency is gained with light armor and tower shield is gained with heavy armor, but is not considered heavy armor so the dwarf racial ability doesn't make them immune to the downside.

#10

transcendantviewer

Apr 16, 2015 12:36:02

I don't think the speed reduction is a good tradeoff. Since numbers are so low in this edition, I'm relatively sure the -1 to attack rolls is a good trade for the bonus AC and the immunity to attacks is a solid counter to even a Fighter using their Action Surge. As it's used, they can't attack after Dodging since the shield's in the way, and if they do, they lose the Total Cover. And in all honesty, AC is only a problem for grunts. Bosses and spellcasters can still deal with a Tower Shield quite easily. If you're on the defensive, you're not attacking, meaning you're pretty much out of the fight for a round, so, the enemy can just ignore you and terrorize your allies while you turtle up like a chump.

#11

Mephi1234

Apr 16, 2015 20:26:15

And a bless spell negates the -1 to attack. At high levels, where your rising bonus to hit makes hitting the same ACs that have been around since level 1 almost trivial? This is a non-drawback.

#12

transcendantviewer

Apr 16, 2015 20:32:32

I suppose I should increase the penalty. Maybe a -2. Any more than that and no one will ever want to wield the thing.

#13

Danny_Montanny

Apr 17, 2015 6:53:28

It should have a Strength requirement to be able to don it, as well as the speed penalty. 15 sounds fair to be able to lug it around normally and actually use it as a shield and not just something to hide behind.

The way I see it, cover is cover. If there's something to hide behind you do it as a part of your movement. If everyone is carrying around big sheets of wood to hide behind, then they can. That doesn't mean they'll be strong enough to carry it quickly, let alone use it as a shield.

I wouldn't let it give full cover, just 3/4. And no 15 Strength Halflings going, "but it's bigger than my whole body!" No friend, if you want a tower shield that you can actually use as a shield, it'll be appropriately sized to you just like all the rest of your gear.

So now we get into why any 15 Strength character wouldn't use it. I'd have it say something about if you're using it for cover, you don't get it's normal +2 AC bonus. It's no longer a shield at that point, but a static feature of the environment. So at best it's +3 AC if you're using it as cover. At worst, the enemy moves around your cover and you no longer have your shield's +2 AC.

Better yet, add that you have to drop prone to use it as cover. Sure ranged attacks against you will be at disadvantage, but any melee ones will be with advantage. That'll make you think twice of when you'll be using it!

So here we have a shield that'll protect you from ranged attacks effectively, but poses a very potential detriment when using the tactic in melee combat. Sounds balanced to me.

#14

mattaddhall

Apr 17, 2015 7:58:01

I don’t think that you need much more of a restriction beyond a STR 15 or even 16 prerequisite. Maybe being proficient in heavy shields and only giving that proficiency to fighters and paladins.

A lot of people on the forums say that DEX is OP when compared to STR, and having a shield that gives an extra +1 or +2 even to a character AC would balance that out a lot. You could then add a couple feats to add extra abilities to it.

#15

LordMorin

Apr 17, 2015 8:55:39

Wall Shield:

Weight: 25 lbs.

+3 AC

Disadvantage on Strength & Dexterity-based skill checks) due to it's bulkiness.

(Reply to #15)

HermanTheWize

LordMorin wrote:

(Reply to #16)

mattaddhall

HermanTheWize wrote:

#18

mattaddhall

Apr 17, 2015 10:58:07

I think the way I would prefer to balance it is that it is difficult to be able to use it, with pretty stringent prerequisites, but once you are able to use it, it doesn’t negatively affect you.

It would prevent everyone from using it because the cost to make a character able to use it would be too high for most players who aren’t specializing.

I might even say it has a +4 to AC (+2 more than a normal shield, mostly because it would be about twice as large), requires 16 STR, to have both Plate and Tower shield you need 18 STR, only fighter and Paladin are proficient (fighter because they can uses all weapons, paladin because they are the only other class that aims for high AC from heavy armour)

If you were to have a Feat for the shield, then you can introduce both pros and cons (e.g. dex disadvantage for 1/2 cover vs missiles).

I will say that 5th edition is the first I have played so I don’t know how they worked in previous versions.

#19

Danny_Montanny

Apr 17, 2015 15:19:37

Tower Shield

This large shield lets you take cover to protect yourself from attacks. Due to it's size, you must have a Strength score of 15 or more to gain its normal +2 bonus to AC while wielding it. As a bonus action, you can drop prone behind the shield to have three-quarters cover against attacks originating from the opposite side of the shield. While you have cover this way, you do not benefit from the shield's normal +2 bonus to AC.

So, if you're strong enough, you can carry a piece of cover with you. It takes up some action economy to set up that cover. Though you will be much better defended against ranged attacks, melee attacks will take advantage of your decreased mobility. Not to mention taking half of your movement to stand up from prone if you want to move the next turn.

#20

Slyck314

Apr 17, 2015 15:06:41

How about some kinda swap for the normal bonuses when dodging. Cover instead of disadvantage on attacks.

#21

Noon

Apr 17, 2015 16:10:39

Why did it go from wading into a hail of arrows to 'block the guys who are standing right next to me'?

(Reply to #21)

transcendantviewer

Noon wrote:

(Reply to #22)

Danny_Montanny

transcendantviewer wrote:

#24

transcendantviewer

Apr 18, 2015 18:37:39

Fair point. I originally was thinking of having it function as Total Cover against three squares that are adjacent to both you and each other.

#25

MechaPilot

Apr 18, 2015 21:01:03

Regarding the thread title, I don't miss tower shields. The only time I have ever seen PCs use them is in warfare scenarios.

With regard to the specific mechanics of a tower shield for 5e, I have no problem with it providing total cover against attacks from the front. I don't mean just the row of three squares in front of the tower shield user, but in a kind of truncated cone whose small end makes up the row of three squares in front of the user. I would describe it as total cover against any attack that passes through the front of the user's square, drawing a line fron the center of the attacker's square to the center of the shield user's square (however you would describe that without mentioning squares, because that's apparently taboo in 5e).

(Reply to #25)

Macv12

MechaPilot wrote:

#27

MechaPilot

Apr 18, 2015 21:49:51

Macv12 wrote:

(Reply to #27)

Macv12

MechaPilot wrote:

#29

transcendantviewer

Apr 19, 2015 9:09:26

A cone of Total Cover would work, with maybe a Penumbra of 3/4 cover against Ranged Attacks.

(Reply to #22)

Baphogoat

transcendantviewer wrote:

(Reply to #30)

transcendantviewer

Baphogoat wrote:

(Reply to #31)

Baphogoat

transcendantviewer wrote:

(Reply to #32)

transcendantviewer

Baphogoat wrote:

(Reply to #33)

Baphogoat

transcendantviewer wrote:

#35

transcendantviewer

Apr 19, 2015 23:06:48

Here, I think this will clear up the issue...

Tower Shield.

Armor, Special.

This unique piece of armor grants its wielder greater defenses than an ordinary shield could. To make effective use of this piece of equipment, you must have a Strength score of 15 or higher and have proficiency in Heavy Armor. While wielding this shield, increase your Armor Class by 2. While on the defensive, you can superimpose this shield in between you and your foes. When you take the Dodge Action, you gain Three-Quarters Cover against attacks, but lose the AC bonus granted from this shield. Because of this shield's bulk and weight, you have Disadvantage on Dexterity-based Skill Checks.

Weight: 40lbs. Price: 50gp.

And the feat will now be...

Tower Defense
Prerequisite: Strength 15 or higher, Proficiency in Heavy Armor.

You have trained extensively in the use of Tower Shields, gaining the following benefits:

While you are wielding a Tower Shield, increase your Armor Class by 1.
While taking the Dodge action, you can designate a single foe; until the start of your next turn, you now have Total Cover against that foe's attacks, but lose the benefits of Three-Quarters Cover against the attacks of other creatures.
If you are making use of a Tower Shield, you can expend your Reaction to roll a Dexterity-based Skill Check without the Disadvantage caused by your Tower Shield.

This means that they get a passive +1 to their AC, but now can only gain one benefit or the other: Total Cover against a single opponent, or Three-Quarters Cover against all attacks. This is because you're focusing your defenses against a single opponent instead of just trying to protect yourself against all incoming attacks. And throughout the entire process, they still can't make attacks, because they're taking the Dodge Action.

(Reply to #35)

Baphogoat

transcendantviewer wrote: