Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mister_Grizz Nov 05, 2014 7:25:51	Looking at monster damage using a specific example say the Ogre(Large size) with a greatclub doing 2d8 vs say a Fire Giant (Huge size) doing 3d8 if he too wielded an appropriate sized club. Shouldn't the dragons adjust by size category as well at least more so? For instance the The Young Blue Dragon (Large) bites at 2d10 plus 1d10, claws at 2d6 and breathes at 10d10 whereas the Adult Blue Dragon (Huge) bites at 2d10 plus 1d10, claws at 2d6 and breathes at 12d10 with lastly the Ancient Blue Dragon (Gargantuan) bites at 2d10 plus 2d10, claws at 2d6 and breathes at 16d10. The last also tail slap at 2d8.    Is is the sole worthwhile intended damage upgrade for each intended to be their breath weapons? Would it be overkill to kick their damage up a notch on their bites, claws and tail attacks? For instance upping the Adult's routine up to bites at 2d12 plus 1d10, claws at 2d8 and tail slaps at 2d10 and the Ancient simply adds dice 3d12 plus 2d10, claws at 3d8 and tail slaps at 3d10 or instead of going up a damage die using the damage like Giants and just adding another dice to damage?   I am just concerned that simply adding more dice exactly like Giants could overclock the Ancient too much creating 4d10 plus 2d10, claws at 4d6 and tail slaps at 4d8. Would that be too high?    I fear that Dragons are just all bark and no bite. With PCs having little to fear from a Dragon until they can breathe again. And if somehow they were immune or resistant to the Breath Weapon even an ancient would be a cake encounter for most high level parties.
#2 DocSun Nov 05, 2014 9:20:44	Starting with Adult and  carrying through to the Acient dragons they get access to Legendary and Lair actions which make them MUCH MUCH MUCH more deadly. I think that is why they have no real jump from young to adult on the sheet alone, all the extra attacks/actions make up for it. I also increase Legenday actions if there are 5 or more players by 1 per player as it seems most combats are assumed around a party of 4 so this has so far seemed to balance them out when I play at my table and at my store.
#3 Forgive Nov 05, 2014 12:22:52	I see what you mean.  However, taking the young and adult red dragon.  They are Challenge 10 and 17 respectively.  That's a 7 level difference.  A fighter would likely gain 9 hit points per level (avg roll + con bonus) for another 63 hit points.  The adult only deals 1d6+2 more damage with it's bite for an avg of 5 dmg.  However, it has a lair action of tail attack for another 17 (avg) damage for a total per round of 22 more dmg per round for bite and tail.  Toss in the claw for another +2 dmg per claw, or +4 for both = +26 damage per round that a young dragon cannot deal out.  Anyhow, all that tells me the damage is good.  Those 7 levels offer the fighter 3 rounds of life.   My concern is the damage from the breath weapon.  The young red dragon can dish out 56 damage (on avg) while the adult is only 63.  A 7 point increase over 7 levels just isn't enough.  Now dragon breath does do ALOT of damage, no matter the age, I would just like to have seen breath deal another +25 or so per teir as well.
(Reply to #3) AaronOfBarbaria	Forgive wrote:
#5 Mister_Grizz Nov 05, 2014 17:55:59	Forgive wrote:
#6 intently Nov 06, 2014 7:55:15	If your players min/max and optimize, I highly recommend that you use the spellcasting dragon variant. Stoneskin, misty step, shield, blur, mirror image, contingency, regenerate, circle of power, freedom of movement, haste, bless...   A dragon with these kinds of spells (and, when applicable, a few allies to benefit from them) will wreck parties who are unprepared. A few winged kobolds with fire shields, Armor of Agathys, bless or crusader's mantle could torment a high-level party while the dragon laughs and tosses spells from a distance. (Sure, some of those spells are RAW self-only, but who says dragon casters use the exact same spells as players?)   In fact, the kobolds would be a great stage 1. When they're dead, the flies by a few times for stage 2. For stage 3, the dragon is too injured to fly so it engages directly. Sounds fun.
#7 Forgive Nov 06, 2014 8:10:43	AaronOfBarbaria wrote: